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#029: Stories of Impossible Marriages Redeemed | Leila Miller

Struggling spouses often feel like they have two options: Stay married and be miserable or get divorced and be happy. Thankfully, there’s a third option: Healing your marriage. Leila Miller shares hopeful stories of healed marriages.

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Struggling spouses often feel like they have two options: Stay married and be miserable or get divorced and be happy. Thankfully, there’s a third option: Healing your marriage.

Leila Miller shares stories of hope from her new book, “Impossible” Marriages Redeemed: They Didn’t End the Story in the Middle. It features 50 stories of broken marriages that have been healed and more.

By listening, here’s what you’ll walk away with:

  • Common things that breakdown a marriage and common things that heal a marriage

  • What to do with suffering in your marriage

  • Extreme cases where separation may be necessary

  • What’s at stake in a culture where divorce becomes rampant

  • Resources and practical advice to heal a broken marriage for struggling spouses or anyone who loves or leads them

Plus, enter our random giveaway to win the book! We’re giving away 3 copies. Details at the end of the episode.

Full Disclaimer: If you purchase through the links above and below, your purchase will support Restored at no additional cost to you. Thank you!

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“Impossible” Marriages Redeemed: They Didn’t End the Story in the Middle

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

We live in a culture where so many marriages are weak, they're broken. And so many of them end in divorce. Everyone knows this. In fact, I bet, you know, a couple or maybe a few couples that are going through a really difficult time in their marriage right now, or maybe they're even getting divorced. And it leaves all of us feeling kind of hopeless about love and marriage, especially if you're a struggling spouse.

If you're someone who's in a really. Difficult or painful marriage right now, but that's also true for people who come from broken homes. Maybe your parents are separated or divorced, or maybe they're just going through a really tough time in their marriage. It can leave us feeling pretty hopeless about love and marriage and kind of the results of all this, where this all leads is that many of us feel like there are only two options for a struggling marriage, stay married and be miserable, or get divorced and be happy.

But thankfully there's a third option and that is healing your marriage, but is that even possible to prove that it is possible today? I speak with Layla Miller who compiled the book of 50 stories of broken marriages that have been redeemed that have been healed. And we're diving into those stories, especially the stories where the marriage seemed the most hopeless, where it was just really, really in bad shape yet.

Thankfully it was redeemed. And by listening this episode, some of the things that we talk about, some of the things you're gonna get out of it, we touch on some of the patterns, some of the, the factors that led to the breakdown of the marriage, and then some other factors that led to the recovery of the marriage.

We also talk about what to do with suffering in marriage. Like what do you do? When marriage gets hard, we talk about this extreme and intense cases where there's abuse, or maybe there's infidelity. That's just continuing on. Talk about what to do in that case and how separation may actually be the right step to eventually hopefully healing your marriage.

We touch on what's at stake in a culture where divorce becomes ramp. And then Layla gives some practical advice and some resources to heal a broken marriage for any struggling spouses out there, or anyone who just loves or leads them. This episode is for three types of people. One it's for anyone who comes from a broken homeless parents are separated or divorced.

So maybe they're just going through a really rough time in their marriage, or they just don't have a good marriage. It's for you. It's to help you believe that love. Can actually last and also there's some practical things that you can do if marriage gets to a point where it's really bad, where it's really painful, it's, it's really a difficult marriage.

It's also for struggling spouses, anyone who finds himself in a difficult marriage right now, again, lots of hope and some practical wisdom for you. And then also for anyone who loves or leads, uh, struggling spouses or people who come from broken homes, young people come from broken homes. There's so much excellent content and it had so much hope.

So much wisdom. I know you're definitely gonna benefit from this. So keep listening.

Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 29 and we're almost at the end of our love and relationship series. The research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are experience in our romantic relationships.

Why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous. In our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on, on a find and build authentic love.

Before I introduce my guests, I wanna tell you about some exciting news. We're now accepting questions for the show. That's right. You can submit your questions and we'll answer them on the restored podcast. They'll be answered by me or by my guest. And you can ask anything. Maybe you. Stuck or you're unsure about how to handle the pain or, or the challenges from your parents' breakup.

Maybe you're just unsure of how to begin or continue down the path of healing. Maybe someone you love, or someone you lead is going through their parents' divorce and separation. You need to know. How do I help them? Whatever your question is, we'll give you specific and practical answers right here on the show.

So we'd love to hear from you. Here's how you can submit your question. Just go to restored ministry.com/ask Joey again. That's restored ministry.com ministries, just singular slash ask Joey. Just fill out the quick form there with your question. And then as we're able, we'll answer your question on the show.

I'm really excited about this. We look forward to hearing your questions and answering them on the show. So go ahead and submit your questions today@restoredministry.com slash ask Joey. My guest today, Layla Miller is a speaker and an author of four books, including the book that we're gonna talk about today.

Impossible marriages redeemed. They didn't end the story in the middle. In episode two, you may remember, uh, hearing from Layla, we spoke about. Her book titled primal loss, the now adult children of divorce speak. This is kind of the sequel to it. So to speak, we'll get into that in the show. Lela writes and she speaks about topics like marriage, family, and sexuality.

She's been married to her husband for 30 years. They have eight children and 10 grandchildren. She's a frequent guest on national radio. She's had television appearances and has quite the engage Facebook following as. She is a passionate Catholic Christian. And so naturally she speaks from that perspective.

And if you're not religious, as I frequently say, I just invite you to go into this episode with an open mind. You're gonna get a lot out of it, even if you don't believe in God, uh, or you don't see things the way that Layla sees them. And I have to say some of the stuff we talk about today may make you uncomfortable.

We talk about some really unpopular truths that really need to be talked about. So it may not be easy to hear, but honestly, it's actually helpful. It's hopeful and it's even freeing, especially for struggling spouses for struggling marriages. So give this a listen through you will not regret it. Here's my interview with Layla Miller.

Layla Miller. Welcome back to the show. Thank you, Joey. It's so good to be here with you again. It's been, uh, it's been a while since we spoke. And last time we spoke, we talked about your other book, primal loss, the now adult children of divorce speak. Now we're talking about this book, impossible marriages redeemed.

They didn't end the story in the middle, and this is a different book than primal loss, but it is related. How is it different yet related? And what inspired you to write this book in the first. Well, when I wrote primal loss, it was a pretty dark book, uh, as you know, yeah. Um, there's a lot of heavy material in the, the hearts and minds and lives of the children of divorce.

And I knew when I wrote that book or when I compiled those responses to my questions, that I would need a little something. Um, at the end of that book to make people not feel completely hopeless. And so I, I had a small chapter that had stories of hope, which were not the, the children of divorce, but rather people who had come through difficult marriages either themselves or their parents and had, um, or had those marriages redeemed in the end.

And so that chapter, which was chapter 10, um, was a small part of the first book. , it was really appreciated by my Bishop, Bishop Olmsted, and also some of the priests who said, you know what? We could use a whole book of those stories because we deal with people in crisis marriages all the time. And if we could have a book to hand them, that would be really helpful.

So I said about. Doing that doing just that. And I got, I just collected a bunch of stories and, um, Iowa was a little slow. It took me about three years to get it out there, but finally I did. And, uh, so that's the Genesis of, of this follow up book was just a need to, to inspire, um, the people who right now.

Don't want to get to that point where their kids would be, uh, children of divorce. And it is, it's very inspiring. It's very hopeful. And like you said, different in that sense from PRI loss, which was very heavy, but I, I found it incredibly refreshing, uh, As someone who comes from a broken home reading about how these marriages truly were redeemed and you know, they're not perfect.

No, no marriage is, but they're really, they turned a corner and they're in a much better spot. Now I'm curious for people who pick up the book who read it, what's your hope for them? What do you want them to get out of it? So kind of the theme, I think is the same. That's the theme of, of Christianity in general, which is that if we are not a people of redemption, then we are nothing at all.

And so when the church. Stands for, and is the, you know, the greatest champion of marriage or, or is supposed to be, this is what we mean. We mean that when the cross comes and the cross will always come, uh, we know that redemption is not far behind. And so if we keep our faith, whether it's in, um, just the everyday pitfalls of life, Itself, but especially in marriage, because marriage is the foundation of, of society.

Keep the faith, understand that this is about God's promises. This is something supernatural. You can get to a place where there will be redemption. Uh, so, you know, if that's, that's kind of the, the theme of our lives and it really should be the theme of our marriages is that we know what our God can do.

And if we throw it away or throw off our cross before. He is able to work through grace in us. You know, we don't see those miracles. We don't see the ending that he had planned. So that's kind of what I want people to keep in mind is this is always a life itself. And marriage is, is a long haul process.

It's not, uh, something that we try to figure out quickly or in the moment it's always about, you know, through the cross to redemption. And if we cut that short. Everything will go wrong. It's not God's plan. So that, that's kind of, my hope is just we, we wanna read these and see, this is just, this is life itself.

This is how God works, and we need to cooperate with him. And you said marriage is the foundation of society. I wanna touch on that for a second. Before we get into the C of the book, the question really is what's at stake. Cuz some people say divorce is really not a big deal. Like really not a big deal, but what happens to a culture?

If, if divorce becomes ramp. So it's an interesting question because I even after writing or editing primal loss, I hadn. Fully envisioned or put that together in my mind of what it looks like to have a society where so many millions of children come from broken foundations and I was on, um, a Jeanette, uh, Williams Jeanette bank, Vic Williams show on 10.

Couple years ago, I think. And she put it together for me as she's interviewing me. And she was talking about the fabric of society. And, you know, if you pull at a little bit of the fabric of something, it'll, it'll kind of get messed up over here. And she said, imagine, you know, you've got the entire. Nation or an entire culture where you've got these tears and rips, but it's throughout the entire country, you know, it's, it's, it's our culture.

And so if one story has so much is fraught with so much dysfunction and, and difficulty and pain and darkness and. Heaviness and, and, um, inability to know what to do or how to, how to act or all these different things that we, we, we encounter when we talk to, or understand the heart and mind of the child of divorce, you multiply that by millions and millions of people.

and you can start to see why it's, why we have the society we do right now, which is so disjointed. So disconnected, chaotic, confusing, um, wounded, broken. I mean, all these different things that we, these adjectives we could use. It's societal, it's, it's all the way through the fabric of society and you cannot.

This full, beautiful tapestry or this stable society when you've got the foundation being broken people. I, I don't think anyone would argue with that, that the world is very broken right now. And so I think you're right to focus on the source of it, which is the breakdown of marriage and the family. Cuz as you said, it is the building block, the foundation of society and that's.

Really what we're all about at ReSTOR. So I'm happy you're championing this message and getting it out there. Let's get into the book. You broke it into two main sections. Would you explain the first section is the larger section, and that is 50 stories of marriages. Either the spouses themselves are discussing the marriage, or it's a child who is talking about, uh, a difficult marriage that their parent, their parents had.

Um, but these are stories that all got redeemed. So really D. Problems in the marriages and yeah, probably probably more difficult than your average marriage out there. That's breaking up because most marriages, I believe are pretty low conflict. I mean, I'm sorry. Most divorces are pretty low conflict. Um, statistically, yeah.

People just get unhappy, you know, they wanna move on, but these stories that are redeemed, um, are the. Gosh, the things that most people would say it's very justified to leave. For example, um, alcoholism, uh, there's pornography addiction. There is, uh, financial ruin infidelity, lots of infidelity. So these, uh, mental illness too.

Um, so those first 50 stories take us through either again, from the perspective of the spouses or the children, how. They got through it, how they overcame it and became stronger redeemed. It saw the miracle. And so they're hopeful. Very, very hopeful. Mm-hmm the second section is also quite hopeful in my opinion, but these are the standards.

So there's 15 stories of spouses who are standing for their marriage vow. even though the other spouse is gone and that is very unusual. And, and that's why people, they really raised their eyebrows at that. They're like what, you know, somebody's voluntarily staying single and lonely and alone when everybody tells them to move on everybody, I'm, I'm talking even in the church, you know, just move along, you know, get your enrollment, move along.

Yeah. Find that new romance. But these standards are really taking their vow quite seriously. They really meant what they said on the altar. And they're carrying across that is heavier than most crosses. I would imagine out there, um, because they're getting ridiculed on top of being lonely, but it's, the stories are just so beautiful.

Like you, you see the holiness in these people and you see that even the abandonment has made. Even more holy and, and, uh, you get really inspired by these stories as well. And, and there's a reason that we would want to have a witness of such people that will keep their vow, their sacred vow. Until death, as they promised it's, it's beautiful and heroic.

And of the, the marriages that were redeemed in that first section, uh, which of them seemed the most hopeless. And, and what happened? Tell us the story. Yeah. Well, there's quite a few that seem so hopeless. Uh, but the ones that I think there are a couple in there that had even gone so far as. Actual civil divorce and remarriage, and then had come back from that.

So not only adultery and some other issues, but also just literally actual civil divorce. And, um, one of 'em was, you know, this, this couple that's actually still married today. I think they're married 55 years now, but, uh, her husband had. Multiple affairs. They were very devout when they got married, he, they kind of started to just be a little lax in the practice of their faith.

He began to have an affair. I think this was in the seventies, you know, sexual revolution had come or about, he came back for like two weeks. She got pregnant during those two weeks. He left her again. I mean, so she's got these little kids. Finally, he says a few years later, I'm divorcing you. I'm just never coming back.

I'm gonna marry this other woman. I mean, all these things are happening and this woman is just shell shocked, you know, but at, at the time she's still very devout and she's thinking, what do I do? Well, it's still kind of in this time where people thought, you know, in the, in the seventies, people still kind of thought, especially Catholics, you know, that worked devout.

Not gonna leave. You're not gonna get an enrollment and none of that. And so she didn't, so she, she kept going and she kept being faithful and just waiting and praying and praying the rosary for her husband. And, and eventually he came back. He came back the second time and, uh, I, I think he, he might have left one more time.

But eventually when, even when she was told by the, the first priest, this is kind of interesting to me, the first priest, the priest that, that married them, told her at first, no, you have absolutely no, no grounds for annulment. And so she's like, okay. You know, so she went along the second time he left the same priest said, oh, you know what?

You do have grounds for enrollment. Cause I think like 10, 15 years had passed and the culture had changed and the culture in the church had changed. She went to her spiritual director who was father John harden, who is servant of God. He's going to be, you know, canonized, God willing. And he said, no. He said, no.

In fact, he said, I just came back from St. John Paul second. Obviously he wasn't canonized then, but he said, I just came back from Rome and he just saw JP two pick up a, a stack of annulment papers from the us and just threw them back down on his, his table. And he said enough. And, um, so she decided to stay faithful and he ultimately, after all the prayers and all the forgiveness that she provided him, and they had to think a total of seven or eight kids, he came back and they now for the last.

Probably, I don't know if it's 15 or 20 years now have been very, very happy. They have like 32 grandchildren. They live in a, a very, um, wonderful Catholic community. And it just shows the miracle of God's grace. If you, if you keep your vow. And keep praying for your spouse and keep forgiving and, and a miracle occurred.

It was, it was pretty, it was a pretty amazing story. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And you know, I can't imagine how painful those years must have been for, for her. And just how many times perhaps she just wanted to give up. Absolutely. And it's interesting, you know, that when she first, when he first left, what went through her mind was.

Gosh, I think, I think she was only 24 the first time that he left and she said I'm, I'm young. And, and it was right around again, the, the late sixties then. And, uh, she said, you know, sexual revolution was happening. She's like, I, I, I, I don't wanna be single my whole life, but at the time the culture, see, here's the safeguard of the culture in the church.

They all said, no, still, you know, her community wasn't in, you know, divorce. Wasn't still a big thing. Um, it wasn't. It was, it was still frowned upon. And then of course, in the church, as I said, her, her priest said, no, you're not gonna get into annulment. So that pressure was brought to bear to be faithful.

And nowadays that's gone. That's completely gone. So, um, she in the meantime had become so holy that by the second round, she was already determined to stay faith. Wow. No, it's an incredible story and very heroic on her end, especially just going through all those injustices. I wanna speak about the, the standards, the, those abandoned spouses, uh, what motivated them to, to stay faithful to their wedding vows?

Mm, well, it, it had to be a special grace because again, there's nothing, um, surrounding them that would would say to do that. In fact, every single voice. From friends, family, the church, the culture says to not do that, there is something inside people where they are. They have such integrity that when they take a vow, a sacred vow, they there's something in them that cannot.

Break it, and they, they have the feeling that, you know, when I said for better or for worse, you know, in sickness or in health and by the way, sickness can also mean moral sickness. Then I, I meant it. They meant it. And so some of them were so, so devastating. I mean, it is devastating and it's devastating when nobody seems to be on your side and you seem to be the one that's being shamed, but, uh, you know, they have the grace.

Of God, they had the teachings of the church, whether or not, you know, a lot of people in the church still follow them. And really, you know, with a little research, they also found that the church says specifically JP two, again, we go back to the, the Saint, you know, he said in familiars consortium that these people who stand for their vows need to be and should be seen as witnesses.

And as heroes really in the faith and that they need the support, the full support of the community and the church. And so that gives them courage, you know, to know that, but it's, it's very difficult. It really is just a conviction that they have occasionally they'll find other standards and that really bolsters their, um, Their commitment and their, um, um, belief that this really is the way that Christ would have done it.

And in fact, it's the way Christ did do it, because think about it. He was the ultimate abandoned spouse and he did stay faithful. Until his death and, um, never once wavered in his faithfulness. So they really have conformed themselves to the cross and to Christ himself. And they just find that within, and it just has to be God's grace because there's no earthly reason why they would do that today.

I, I remember in the forward of the book, the, your author, the author who wrote the forward, he said they have found a way to love someone who has become unlovable. And I personally, like he said, I think that makes them hero. It is heroic and, and that's the model that Christ gave us again. He was biblical, right.

He loved us while we were still unlovable while we were still in our sin. And marriage is supposed to be a reflection of that. and we forget that, that it's not about, well, we're gonna love someone until they become unlovable. And then we're gonna kick 'em to the curb. And if we do that, what are we showing our children?

You know, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you, UNC unconditional. I made, you know, I made this vow, your, you know, your father or your mother, and I love you too, just as much. And then later on, oops. Oh, dad became unlovable. Mom became unlovable. I'm done with that person. What does that show us about?

Not only, uh, what could happen to us, right? Yeah. And so the insecurity of the children forever, but it, what does it say about God? If, if, if that's your model and you see that happening with your parents and, and, and they represent God in your eyes in so many ways, you start to doubt God, too. So, so it's very heroic to be the one who does the uncommon thing.

And that's what these people did. Absolutely. And like you said, as a child of divorce and just speaking and working with so many children of divorce, when you see that, that, you know, someone can leave you who, who loved you at at one point, um, it really makes you doubt almost everything. Because it's like, well, what is secure?

What won't break apart. If, if the family is the most basic tribe, the most basic form of security, if that falls apart, then we really go through life questioning everything. Right. And that was the biggest shocker to me. Because again, I, I remember one of my, uh, the well, Alicia Hansen, I, I, um, had dedicated my, the primal loss book to her because she was kind of the inspiration for that.

Cuz she opened my eyes to this. Uh, I remember her saying, I always wonder. You know, why you had confidence Layla in the way you do. And, and it just never occurred to me to feel insecure about life. Hmm. Um, and then I recognized through the, obviously listening to the answers of so many adult children of divorce who seem to really be really put together on the outside.

And I realized what goes on inside. And I thought, my goodness, I don't know how I could withstand it. It, it. Mind boggling, but it's a completely foreign experience to someone who has an intact family. We cannot understand that type of, um, insecurity because everything that was your foundation was shattered and taken from you and split.

And I always have to keep reminding myself of that. You know, this is a new, a new thing for me to know, because it, it, I did not go through this unnatural breaking apart of my identity. So yeah, it's, it's. It's very difficult. It is what children are seeing. Mm-hmm and then, you know, we always go back to what's wrong with this generation, you know, they don't wanna commit.

They don't, they don't seem to, they seem to be wandering. They don't seem to have any purpose and, okay. Well, how many of those have come from shattered foundations? So many it's it's unbelievable. And one thing you said about vows, thinking back to something you just said a as a boy, after my parents separated and later divorce, uh, I remember holding promises in such like a high regard.

Like you don't break your promise and obviously a vow is different than a promise. It's a more serious thing. But, um, but yeah, I remember that stuck with me. It's interesting. You mentioned how, you know, those abandoned spouses, especially just. They know that their vow means something so serious that they're willing to suffer for it, which man that, that takes guts.

That's, that's very heroic. I think it's almost unheard of today. I don't know that we even talk about that anymore, because I do know that in the past, you know, you see old movies or old books and it was always like, you know, a man's word is his bond and people really. Honor was honor was much more important than happiness to a person, um, when we had our priorities straight and when God was truly the center of, of most people's lives and experiences and you're right, like now who talks about.

Keeping promises or it's not even a thing really. It's it's it seems to be nothing we even discussed. So that's interesting to me that you even say that, that, that was, that really struck you as a, as a kid or a young man, cuz that, that is true. We don't talk about it. We don't think it's a big deal. It's like, well, you know, I, I said it then, but I don't mean it now.

I mean, what's the big deal I need to, I, I change, I evolve, right? Yeah. But boy, it used to be that you made a promise and that was who you. if you broke that, that means you, you were dishonored. Yeah. And there was good positive pressure to keep those promises, which is what you alluded to before. I wanna talk about those extreme cases, because whenever you talk about this topic on social media or do interviews or write articles, people criticize you saying that you're telling spouses who are in really super difficult situations where there's abuse or even the threat of death to, to stay in those situations.

So. Again, for the record, we did this last episode too. Would you clarify kind of what you're saying to those spouses in those situations? Absolutely. As always I say this, I say exactly what the church teaches because the church, we always fall back on do what the church requires or what the church says.

And the church says that in cases of, uh, danger, In cases of an unlivable situation in cases of, um, unrepentant adultery, you may physically separate. Okay. That that's what is allowed physical separation is permitted. Um, it should be with the permission of the Bishop, but we won't go into that because no Bishop holds to that cannon in America.

So that's a whole other story. but. But, you know, it it's, it's allowed because nobody is saying that you have to stay and be abused, however, can law says something else. It says, well, first of all, we also know that that doesn't mean that a marriage has ended simply because someone is abusive. The marriage is not dependent on what someone is doing to you, you know, 10 years in or 20 years in, or if they become an alcoholic or if they.

The marriage is dependent on what happened that day of the wedding vows. Anything else after that is across in, in the marriage. And, and again, we're not gonna get into how do you evaluate a, a true impediment to what was a valid marriage, but what Canon law says is that at no point basically, um, here and I can even, I can even quote it, which, which is always helpful.

In all cases, this is Canon law, uh, numbers 1, 1 51 through 1 55 in all cases. When the cause for the separation ceases, conjugal living must be restored. Okay. So the point is we've always been about reconciliation. We've always been about forgiveness. If it gets to the point where those problems cease to be those problems anymore.

Reconciliation is required, but physical separation absolutely is permitted in those circumstances. What isn't permitted is, oh, I'm not married to you anymore. I'm going to just go ahead and move on. Yeah. And for anyone who doesn't know what Canon law is, is basically church law. And so that's what Laylo was, was reading us there.

Mm-hmm but man, that is very counter cultural. , it's something that we don't talk about a lot, but as you said so beautifully, it's all about the reunification of the spouses, the healing of the family, bringing everyone together. And if your book proves anything, it proves that that is possible. It's not just some lofty idea that some people, you know, across the ocean made up very true.

And in fact, so I have, you know, how many 50 of those redemption stories. I get, there were plenty more. I hear about them every day. I get emails, you know, and even you look around in your neighborhood, I guarantee you that the older married couples and the people married for a long time, you know, they had something that could have led to a divorce.

There is no couple who is not going to have a serious cross mm-hmm statistically almost impossible. There might be a perfect couple here or there, but I've never met them. So, um, So this idea that, well, you just found the 50 people who really overcame some difficulties. No, most people don't try. Most people.

When they come to those crosses. And so what I'm saying is there's a lot of silent people, everywhere, millions who have overcome really bad things, or even just standard annoying misery, you know, some people are just miserable and they, they can overcome that. Or even if they don't have this perfect, perfect romance, love bloom, you know, butterflies in your stomach forever for 55 years, which that's not really what God intended anyway is never what the promise was that they can get to a point of content.

Even if the person is imperfect, even if they feel like they didn't find their quote unquote soulmate, which is another, you know, annoyance to me to think of that, we, we think we have to find someone that's perfectly suited for us or we haven't, you know, we're unable to. Yeah, exactly. Like, I mean, are we unable to have marriage then?

Unless we find the perfect person, then why would Jesus expect that almost every human being on earth who reaches adulthood? Naturally be married. Um, if we have to find the perfect, perfect spouse, that doesn't cause us any trouble. So, um, so all these stories exist out there. They're they're in every family.

The only difference between people who have a long marriage and get to that point where they are just ha have a beautiful ending, really. The only difference is that they chose not to get divorced at whatever particular difficult time there was. And they continued to work. Yeah. Those two parts they didn't give up and they continue to work.

Cuz if you just keep where they are, it will eventually deteriorate even worse. Exactly, exactly. Which is what the people in the book found out. I mean, they were the, the thing I did when I started editing these, these stories about halfway through, I thought, you know what? These are, these are conversion stories and I hadn't really thought of it that way.

They're talking about how they changed, you know, cuz a lot of 'em are, you know, the, the spouse that was supposedly, you know, the one that was wronged and they're talking about their interior change that actually led to a renewal of the marriage. Yeah. Even though maybe they weren't the one with the addiction, they weren't the one with committing adultery or having the mental illness or whatever it was.

And they began to. Focus more on their relationship with God than their spouse's sins. And so then they would renew themselves and they would become holier. And as they did that, they were able to forget all their resentments and what I'm, you know, I need him to change this way and I need her to do this and they became.

Almost saintly. And, and with that came a forgiveness and there's the key. There, there is a key to every one of these stories, which is forgiveness. And I can't even explain how that, that is the thread that goes through all these stories of redemption of very terrible, terrible issues in the marriage. The ability to forgive and love.

and then it ends up changing the, you know, the quote unquote bad spouse. So is, it was fascinating. It really were. It was, it is conversion stories, stories of God's grace. I don't know how people would. Things worked and redeem things again, not just keeping the status quo, but redeem things if they don't have forgiveness and, and the grace of God.

Yeah. And it's a slow work and that's, I think something that we struggle with a lot in our culture, we want everything. Now. We want things change immediately. We want, I mean, Amazon prime, for example, like if I have to wait three days instead of two, I'm like frustrated, why isn't that package getting here sooner?

Absolutely true. And, and that is a real problem today. In the past, we didn't have these quick exits when we're miserable. So in the past, you didn't have no fault divorce, which is a greased exit ramp. And you, you know, someone who wants a divorce will always get a civil divorce. There's nobody who doesn't get one.

If they want one, it's just done. It's a court case that is always predetermined. So you have that quick exit ramp. And then if you're Catholic, you pretty much know that you. Get an annulment too. I mean, I'm not saying everybody does, but boy, we have a pretty high rate. So when you have those assurances, that, and these are these, I call 'em the two major exit ramps.

These two greased exit ramps, then there's nothing keeping you, like you said time, it takes time. Well, there's nothing keeping you for maybe, oh, it might take four years, five years, 10 years, 20 years to get to the point where God is gonna show you what he's doing with your marriage. And so we, we, that's why I said the subtitle, you know, the is, is they didn't end the story in the middle because if you end God's story in the middle, you're not gonna get.

The beautiful part that he wants you to see. Absolutely. And if you walk out of a movie in the middle, you're gonna think it's a horrible movie. Yeah, exactly. And it's not gonna make sense. Yeah, exactly. No, it'd be so confusing and you don't see the character transformation that that is possible. And you know, we're not naive.

We don't, we know in every case. It's it doesn't happen, but, but like you're saying, there's so many cases where it does, but even in those cases where it doesn't, you can say true to, to that promise. So, so many, so many beautiful points. I wanna talk about suffering, cuz that's really at the core of everything that we're talking about, uh, in the book, an important point that you make is marriage involves suffering and, and you say the weight of what we are promising is unknown to us on our wedding.

Powerful. Would you elaborate on that? Yes, absolutely. And, and there's a beautiful exoration that used to be read at the beginning of every Catholic wedding, which pretty much elaborated on that and said that, you know, everything in the future is hidden. It's hidden. You don't know what it is. You're, you're kind of taking this on trust.

And so we take this vow, we have this idea. That, especially now. I mean, we have this romantic view of marriage. We have this idea that now we've been completed. now we're, um, with this person we love, and now we just get to kind of rest on our laurels and, and, and enjoy this bliss that we have cemented here today.

It's quite the opposite. What you've done is you've. No matter what comes in, in, in life, which could be anything from, you know, a cancer diagnosis to death of a child. I mean, there's so many different, terrible things that could happen. We have promised that we are not going anywhere and we're going to love each other through it.

I will love this person. Actually. It's only a value take. Right? You make the vow to the other person to God. I will do this thing. I don't know. What's. Probably we can all guess because we know life, you know, it's going to hurt, whatever it is, is going to be cruciform. It's going to be shaped like a cross.

That the reason we take the vow, we would not have to take a vow. If we thought everything was gonna be good from here on in, you would not need a vow. You would stay because you want to stay. The only reason we take a vow is because there are going to be times where we don't want to stay anymore. And the only thing we have to fall back on is this promise that we.

That's it. So 50% of that vow is bad, right? In, in sickness in bad times when we're poor 50% of what we're promising is negative. Wow. And that should show us. It's very simple too. It's a simple vow, but it is pure. It's a pure vow and it's a vow that is sacred, but yes, there is no idea. You have no idea past that threshold, what you're gonna encounter.

And isn't. I, I don't know how to describe that. It's it's, um, breathtaking. This is huge. So when we say, uh, you know, when we get to a across and we say, well, no, I didn't expect that. Well, what I mean, that was, that was your vow. So. I wish we still had that exoration at the beginning of each marriage because it, it hammers home that idea that you are promising something you're promising something to a future that you cannot see, but that's how profound this is.

It's it's absolutely stunning, but yeah, we, we don't think of it that way anymore. We think of it as this person's gonna fulfill me and make me happy. I remember hearing, uh, I think it was Chris Hanick, uh, speaker author, who, uh, was telling the story about. And his marriage, his wife had been abused as, as a girl, sexually abused as a little girl.

And a lot of it bubbled up years into their marriage and she just needed time where they weren't having sex at all. Mm-hmm , it went on for, you know, a few weeks and he was strong and he was saying, okay, I love you, honey. I can do this for you, but then it went on for a month and two months. And. Three months.

And I think it went on for six months or perhaps even a year, a long time. And, uh, you know, being a Catholic, he was praying and he said, Jesus, like, I like, I don't, I didn't sign up for this or something along those lines. And I think he heard Jesus say, actually you did . But, uh, but what a difficult thing to go through, but you know, that promise that, that vow, the more serious version of the promise, uh, was, was what held.

To be faithful, of course, and to endure in that really, really difficult time. And you're you're right. We all need that because it's too easy to just go, uh, after the easy thing, the convenient thing, the comfortable thing. Well, yeah. And you have to trust that God is doing something here. Like it's not that he's just arbitrarily, you know, creating misery for you, by having, you know, some suffering come into your life this way through your spouse or through your marriage, he has something he's doing.

And it's profound, but he's not, you know, we're called to be patient too. I mean, he's not just gonna suddenly do this self gratification thing and just give you what you want instantly. He's gonna make you really prove that you love him and you love your spouse and that you, you will get that reward, but it's not, not necessarily gonna come right away.

We know this. And, and what you said about him and his situation, that is the lived reality of these standards. You know, they, they see their spouses oftentimes go off and, and get remarried and have these big romances and. And they're alone, you know, they're sleeping alone and, and they know they'll likely die alone, even.

Although the last story in the book, the very last story was just absolutely amazing because it was a, the story of a woman who waited, you know, everyone told her to just move on. I mean, he just, he had gone on, he'd had another child with another woman. I mean, all these things happen and she just said, no, I made, I made a promise.

I made a vow. And, uh, and he recently passed away and all she had ever done was pray that could I. Help him get to heaven. And it was like three days before he died. The, she, she got called into his bedside cuz they had never actually officially divorced. So he hadn't, she hadn't seen him in 13 years. Wow.

And um, she was able to forgive him to hold his hand, to pray the rosary, to get him last rights, to whisper in his ear that she had forgiven everything. And she sent him off to heaven. You know, she sent him to God with the Sacra. As his wife. And she said, that's all I ever prayed for. That's all I wanted as his wife.

So there are these miracles that God will, will work, but you will have to possibly wait till the end. And yes, you might be lonely and yes, you might have a cross, but what are we asked to do that? Our Lord did not already experience before us. I always say we, we have a God who, I don't think I said it, but you know, we have a God who went before us in all.

So as lonely as we feel, as, you know, abandoned, as we feel as, as, as unjustly, as we're treated, Christ had all that, but way more than we ever will. So, so it's a beautiful, the cross is not something that we should just think of throwing off all the time, but that we should say. This is a gift, you know, let, let me, let me become holy through this gift and you truly need supernatural strength to be able to endure this, like you alluded to already.

So, wow. What, what a powerful, powerful story. Uh, what were some of the, the common themes of the patterns that contributed to the breakdown of the marriages, uh, in the book that, that you noticed when you were compiling it, you, you already touched on them a little bit. You said things like pornography, financial issue.

Mental illness, affairs, all that. But what, what other things would you add? Mm-hmm I think the key thing in all of it that started to really break down communications, you know, between the spouses or, or starting to, uh, turn them against each other, is, is this resentment, you know, this idea that you're not doing what I want or need you to do, or you're not who I thought you were.

You're not what, you know, not doing what you're supposed to be doing. And in many cases, yeah, that's true. But then they. Re, you know, have this resentment over it rather than, okay, Lord, you know, what, what do you want me to do with this? How can I forgive this person? But in instead it's this I, I need, I want, and so you start to resent and resent and resent, and then no matter how your spouse might be trying to even improve or try to help, not enough.

And there's something, I mean, I was gonna say women understand this. We women do. Tend to really want to change our husbands, like kind of control the things that they do. And, and, and we probably do know what they should look like and what it should be like and how they should act. Um, and so we're just trying to help , you know, in a lot of ways, but, uh, but it's something that we do and we end up.

Emasculating our men. I mean, that's just, that's just a common theme in this culture. It's a it's that we're swimming in the so of feminism and we don't even realize it, uh, which is a whole other topic for another day. But, but we don't even know it. We don't even realize that we're, we're emasculating our men.

And when we do that, he spirals down because all a man really wants to do is please his wife and, and know that she's easily pleased. Well, we're not easily pleased. So it's this, this vicious cycle that can start and, um, And then he pulls away or, you know, or, uh, we double down or whatever. So there's a lot of that instead of pulling back and just being with God and saying, you know what?

This is about me and God, it's always about me and God. And then the whole year we get the less, we will look to that person to fulfill us. And the more we will just say, well, how can I love that person? How can love that person? God fulfills me. God fulfills me. So. The resentments, the lack of communication.

Another thing was, you know, the threat of divorce, like one of the husbands was like, as soon as she told me, she used to threaten me with divorce. He said, as soon as she said, I'm not going to divorce. You. Everything changed for him because it, it, it gave him that safe space to, to be a sinner, but to try to improve and be allowed to improve.

And he had been an alcoholic and all these different, bad things had happened. And she just took that off the table and that released such a burden from him. So we don't wanna use the, the DWORD as a, as a weapon because that will really crush. The love, you know, and the, and the, and the trust and the commitment.

And, um, so, so things like that, you know, resentment using words as weapons, and back up, go back to God, take care of your own, you know, stay in your lane, get holy, and then your spouse will come along. Usually. Yeah, that's so common that, you know, years and years before a divorce takes place, that threat of divorce that we haven't really talked about that in this show, but I experienced that in my own family.

And I know, uh, other people listening right now, restores audience, especially we've yeah. We've experienced that threat and it is very, very lethal. But on the flip side of what we just talked about, uh, what were some of the common themes in the recovery of those marriages, right? Yeah. Adoration. Oh my gosh.

There's plenty of stories where they go to, you know, adoration of the blessed sacrament. Uh, prayer. Prayer is huge. The rosary, um, I know all, not all your audiences is Catholic, but you know, prayer, you know, scripture, uh, follow Christ. See what he did when he encountered difficulties, they would look upon their spouse, uh, with love.

You know, with love, seeing their wounds, seeing the spouse's wounds, you know, they got pornography addicted husbands. My goodness. Some of these poor guys got addicted when they were children. Hmm. It's not cuz they wanna be, you know, so there's this heart for. For the spouse that's, that's suffering forgiveness again.

Huge, huge thing is forgiveness to if and, and Christ said himself, if you do not forgive others, you will not be forgiven. If that's the one thing we should remember it in front of our minds, always no matter who we're dealing with, we have to forgive because we will not be forgiven otherwise. Uh, we have this idea that we can just, um, be righteously, indignant, be, be right.

You know, I'm right. Well, he was bad or she was bad. It's like, Okay, but you're not perfect either. And what if, God, didn't forgive you. So there's a lot that, you know, we're not used to forgiving people in this society, but it is, it is huge in the recovery and the turnaround. So it's not just, okay. We can stay together.

It's that, there's something more beautiful that comes later than even was at the time of the wedding. And that's what people don't understand either you get you're more in love after you get past those crosses. So forgiveness is, is huge. One of the things that I noticed that, that you alluded to you even explained well, is that, uh, each spouse taking ownership of how they contributed to the breakdown of the marriages, not just blaming and even in those cases where one of the spouses was truly more to blame.

Maybe they had an affair, they were dealing with an addiction. But, but the, the other spouse was able to admit that they played a role and they, when they took ownership of their part, it seemed to help so much and contributed to the healing and the recovery of the marriage. Yeah. There's an astounding story.

And it's the first story in the book. And the woman discovers that her husband has been having an affair probably for years. And she is enraged, absolutely enraged and betrayed. And of course, I mean, every feeling she becomes. An alcoholic. I mean, she starts to drink heavily. She eventually, again, this is all in the story, but, uh, she eventually through prayer, through God's grace, she is able to forgive him and not only forgive him, but she starts to see that she had in her words, other, this is so interesting how she puts it, but she says, I, I realized that I had.

Found fault with him for so many years. And I made sure he knew over the years exactly what was wrong with him. And I hand, you know, I, I criticized and I I'd belittled him and I emasculated him and I ensured that he would, you know, that all his broken pieces, you know, he took, he took himself to another woman who made him feel.

So it's not, it's not that she was saying he wasn't at fault for adultery because he was 100% that's his choice. But she said, I wrapped his broken pieces up in a bow and handed him over. To a woman who was treating him nicely. And, and the interesting thing about that story is she, I mean, she completely forgave him and then she absolutely owned her own sins against her husband, which were, which were pretty serious.

That's pretty serious thing to do to your husband. But he went on to have another affair a few years later and it took almost no time at all for her to forgive him again. Wow. And she got the grace of seeing him with such love. Such love and they are in a very happy marriage right now. So, you know, you think of these kids, they could have been, they could have been just completely destroyed by a divorce and, and blaming and, and, and, you know, everything that comes after that.

And, and now they're, they're in an intact. Very happy. Very Catholic family. Wow. Wow. Incredible. And to the, for those of you listening right now, who your minds could go to? Oh my gosh, that woman is a doormat. that? She's not a doormat. She's forgiveness is not saying that what someone did wasn't wrong or that it didn't matter that didn't hurt.

Oh my goodness. It's just releasing them of, of that debt really similar what they owe you because of their wrong actions. So yeah, she's, she's no doormat. That takes incredible, incredible strength to do something like that. Yes. And, and not only is she not a doormat, I mean, the, the, the beauty of it is she's a very happy woman.

So, you know, people say, oh, she's beaten down. And she's like, oh no, no. I, I happen to actually know this woman and she is, uh, incredible. And she's incredible. She's got a great family. So, so yeah, so her, her relationship with God is intimate. She is very, very close to God in prayer and she is a strong and a very joyful woman.

So it, it is it's, it's just really neat to see. Beautiful li I wanna get your advice and encouragement for, for different groups of people who are listening right now, the first struggling spouses, spouses who are in a really difficult marriage in a difficult situation, uh, they may be thinking that there's only two options, you know, leave and be happy, uh, or stay and be miserable.

Uh, what advice would you give to them and, and what could they practically do to rescue their marriage? Mm, right. There's always a third option, which is to faithfully live out your. And become a Saint like that is if you read any Saint story anywhere, they had incredible suffering, incredible hardship.

And a lot of it was unjust. In fact, you know, once you get to that point of sanctity, most of it's unjust. I mean, uh, and they have such joy, so there is another option and that is to, it is very simple, you know, it's to simply. Live out your vows, live out your vows. God will take care of the rest. God will deal with, you know, if something needs to be dealt with, he will deal with it in the end.

And, and even in the, you know, before the end, but you do your small. Steps of faithfulness and the practical things, you know, there are, um, I would say there's not a lot, unfortunately out there for people who say I want to stay married and not divorce, and I want help. Uh, because a lot of people say, well, you know, past this point or that point, you need to get divorced.

So you always have to make sure if you, if you're going to find a counselor, even if it's just for you, it might just be for you, but it might be marriage counselor for both. That is your stipulation ahead of time. We are, we don't wanna talk about divorce, take divorce off the table, help us help me. But if you're gonna talk about divorce, I don't wanna hear it.

You have to find someone that respects that there are places. If both, if both spouses want help and they're struggling, uh, the Alexander House is the, I recommend that to everyone. They do such good work. Um, I'm good friends with Julie and Greg Alexander. Retrovi which is a program for very difficult troubled marriages, or even people who are already divorced that's a, a, a weekend.

And then there's some follow up on that. People can email marriage responders, gmail.com, and that will lead to some people who will try to kind of. Peer counseling, assess the situation, try to give you some general ideas of what you can do or where you need to, to look for help. But most problems are rooted in the same types of things.

You know, anger, pride, addiction. I mean, there, it is not like there's. Such unusual things out there that people will never know how to deal with them. It's it's usually been dealt with and people, people can find ways to help with those situations. Make sure you are around people who affirm your marriage and support marriage rather than picking aside.

That's massively important. Pick your friends wisely. I was reading a book in a classic Catholic book from the 1940s. That said, and this is way before divorce was popular. That said that a woman's girlfriends are some of the worst influences on a, a marriage on a wife, because she will look to what her girlfriends are SA are saying.

And I've found that to be even more true now because I've been around for a long time. Now I've been married 30 years. I'm 53. I've been around a lot of women. Married women. And yes, what women's friends say will influence them to, you know, if they say no, honey, you know, let's, I will help you stay in your marriage.

We we're gonna figure out this. How, how, how to make this work. Tell me the best things about your husband. Tell me it's good qualities. You know, I'm not gonna, you know, help you get a divorce. In other words, Versus, oh my gosh, he did what, what you don't deserve. Are you kidding me? You need to leave.

Absolutely. You deserve to be happy. God doesn't want you to ever suffer, you know, all this stuff. So there's a huge difference between types of girlfriends. Make sure if you're a woman, you have the right type of girlfriends. Yeah. So those are some of the practical things you can do and make sure if you're, if you're a friend or a family of a struggling, uh, couple that you do not drive a wedge between.

The husband and the wife, husband, and wife is a sacred bond that God formed. Uh, you have no business putting a wedge between them. You can help, uh, facilitate forgiveness or help, you know, help 'em find a good counselor help 'em, um, get, have 'em cry on your shoulder. And, uh, Sometimes it requires humility.

And I, and again, I'm not saying doormat, you know? Okay, fine. Again, UN repent adultery. That's one of those things in Canon law because there's issues of disease and issues of, you know, that's a really bad situation. Yeah. You can, you can separate, you can separate, but forgiveness is always an option and it should always be part of our, our Christian, uh, you know, our tools.

That's what, that's what Christ expects of us. Beautiful. So, yeah. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot, there's a lot in there, but, um, but the, but the healing and the truth of things, you know, it's all still very simple. It's all very, uh, it's not, it's not overly complicated Christ in his message, you know, when he told a parable or, or sentence here or there, it was very simple words.

So we have to not overcomplicate things. Beautiful. And I know you put in the back of the book resources for, for couples or for friends who wanna help their friends who are in a struggling marriage. So guys pick up the book, Layla, thank you so much for being here. If people wanna follow you, how can they do that?

Yeah. My website is Layla miller.net. That's L E I L a miller.net, and I'm also pretty active on my, um, My personal Facebook page, which is always public. I have a writer's Facebook page too, but the personal one is, is always going. That that's pretty much, I I'm, I'm somewhat more a wife and mom than, than out there, but, but that's where you can find me.

Perfect. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for putting together this book. I think it's gonna help a lot of couples who are struggling, but also people like me and people who, uh, are listening to what ReSTOR has to say. People who come from broken homes, we wanna believe in love. We wanna believe in marriage and this book gives us a reason to do so.

So thank you so. Yes, it's a, it's a, a shot of hope. So I, I hope that's what people get out of it. And thank you so much for having me on Joey. It's been. Wow. That interview gave me so much hope. Even when I was listening at, before we launched it, it honestly made me tear up. It was so beautiful that love can be so faithful so deep, and it could even fight through the worst of situations.

It just made me believe that that it's possible that even those. Marriages can be redeemed. And if you wanna hear more of those stories, you can buy Layla's book, impossible marriages redeemed. They didn't end the story in the middle to do that. Just go to restored ministry.com/ 29. Again, that's restored ministry ministries, just singular.com/two.

Nine, just scroll down. You'll see the book click on that link, and then you can check out on Amazon. We're also giving away three copies of the book randomly. We're giving it away to, to anyone on our email list and to join, you can go to restored ministry.com/ 29. The same link. I just mentioned, just scroll down to the form, fill it out, and then you're entered the win.

It's as easy as that. And if you're already on our list, of course you're entered to, to win one of these books and we'll choose the winners randomly. On November 1st. And if you join, you'll also get a free ebook on some practical ways that you can cure loneliness. You'll get exclusive email content. And then whenever we come in with a new article or podcast episode, we'll email that to you.

We really don't send many emails, no spam, just really solid content. So join our email list. The resources mentioned during the show notes, it's at restored ministry.com/two nine. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, go ahead and subscribe and share this podcast with someone that you know who could use it always remember you are not alone.

We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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#028: Tips for Building a Great Marriage from an Amazing Couple - Part 2 | Joe & Maria Keller

Young people from broken homes lack a roadmap for love. We’ve seen a broken model of love and marriage from our parents. And so, we often feel lost when it comes to finding and building love.

To heal, one important step is spending time around good marriages.

Keller Family.jpg

If you want to build a great marriage, follow the advice of couples who’ve done it. Learn from them.

Like last episode, that's exactly what we do in this episode with the most beautiful married couple Joey knows, Joe and Maria Keller. They offer a roadmap for marriage and hope for those of us from broken families who often feel lost in building love that lasts. By listening, you’ll also hear:

  • What destroys a marriage and how to avoid those things

  • Habits and advice on money, faith, and communication

  • How Joe and Maria handled the pain of losing a child

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

If you wanna build a great marriage, follow the advice of couples who've done it. I said that in last episode, learn from them. And just like in last episode, that's exactly what we do in this episode. I interview an amazing couple that really has the most beautiful marriage that I've ever seen. I've ever witnessed.

And I've learned so much from them. They've helped me. To believe that love and marriage can last because I doubted that after seeing what happened in my own parents' marriage and seeing kind of that broken model of love and marriage, I doubted that I could last and, and by their example, by their example of my guests today, they've truly given me a roadmap for love and marriage.

And, and so that's what you're gonna get out of this episode. Two, you're gonna get that roadmap for love and marriage. And you're gonna get that hope that love and marriage can actually last because my guest, Joe and Maria, they prove that we're gonna talk about what destroys a marriage and how you can avoid those things.

We'll also discuss their habits and advice on different topics, like how to handle money, why it's important to. Be on the same page when it comes to your deepest held beliefs or your faith, they talk about the benefits of having a mentor or a spiritual coach. We get into communication tips, like when you should actually avoid talking to your spouse about big issues and how to approach your spouse in the right way.

When you need to talk about some important, we get into the heavy topic of suffer. They talk about how they've handled suffering in their life, specifically, how they've handled the pain of losing one of their children, just really sad. Uh, but at the same time, beautiful story of how they navigated that really difficult part of their life and how they found peace in the midst of so much pain and how you can as well.

And lastly, they give us encouragement those of us who maybe doubt that love is possible for us, that it can last for us, that we can have something different than what we saw in our parents' marriage. So lots of good stuff ahead. So much practical wisdom from a truly amazing couple. So keep listening.

Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow. From the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 28 and this is actually part two of two. Last episode was part one, and that was episode 27.

It's obviously best to listen to that first, but if you don't, that's totally fine. You're still gonna get a lot. This episode, we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. And the research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are experienced in our romantic relationships.

And why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous ways. In our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on how to find and build authentic love.

My guests today are Joe and Maria Keller. I'm not gonna give you their full bio. We gave that in episode 27. So just go back and listen to that. If you'd like to hear more about them, they're just fantastic. Have they have such a beautiful family? They've six kids. One of them passed away as you'll hear more about in the interview and man, well, such a beautiful, beautiful family.

Something that I. Truly want to emulate in my own family, in my own marriage. And for those of you who aren't religious, there is quite a bit of talk about God and faith. That's just so core to who Joe and Maria are. It's really at the core of their joy of their happiness, they would say. And so really important to, to hear them out on those parts, because again, it's so core to who they are.

It's so core to the amazing marriage that they've built, uh, without it, if you take out out of it, it. Wouldn't be what it is. And so if you're not there and when it comes to faith, your relationship with God, you're totally welcome here. And even without those parts in the episode, you're still gonna walk away with a lot of great, uh, advice, a lot of great encouragement.

So if you can keep an open mind, definitely keep listening. Also at the end, I wanna tell you about a virtual retreat that you can attend specifically for adult children of divorce. This is a healing retreat that you. Take in from the comfort of your own home, it's gonna span over, uh, so many weeks and it's just like an hour and a half at a time.

So more info, uh, at the end of the show. So here's part two of my conversation with Joe and Maria color picking up right where we left off in episode 27. kind of moving on the flip side of this. What have you seen really destroy marriages? What, what should we look out for little things? Very subtle things I would say, but just, you know, the flip of what she just said.

I mean, you know, little biting comments, when, you know, you might develop a relationship with some of the kids and you know, daddy's gonna let this happen, but mommy said, no. And then the kids are smart enough to play on that and, you know, right. Without even knowing it or maybe, you know it and you just don't care, you're slowly letting a wedge be developed between each of you.

And that's not cool. And it's not cool for the kids because you're. giving in them, you know, giving into them. But at the same time, uh, the worst thing is, is you're creating a wound, what Maria mentioned and, uh, uh, which festers, and let me say this, as you, as we all can probably recognize there, there's something real.

That's attempting to destroy, uh, marriages, families, and there's a real evil in the world. And if someone doubted that. Uh, a year ago, look at some of what's developed in the last year. I mean, there is a real, real life, uh, evil around all of us and, and that evil does not like love. Okay. And, and frankly, um, tries to destroy that love.

And if the family can be destroy. Let's face it, evil wins. All right. And, and that's where the frontline frontline attack is at. And we need to be mindful. And we do that through prayer and frankly, our guardian angels. Okay. We have a, we have a gift they're called the guardian angels and whether people know it or not, they have one and it doesn't hurt to say, Hey, help me out here.

Hey, I, I need, I need a hand here. And Hey, guardian angel, were you talking to guardian angel? My wife or my kids, and help me out with this issue or this situation, and watch, you'll see a difference, but again, you know, you could be a policeman or, and have all the weaponry in the world, but if you don't use it or good, is it, we have a great vocation in, in our case.

It's the, the sacrament of marriage. There's wonderful graces that come from. All we have to do is ask. And that requires a little humility and sometimes an apology as we talked about. And sometimes some of these other things. So those are certainly some things to keep in mind, I think. Yeah. And I think, I mean, it's not most of the times when there is a divorce or separation or, um, it's not that Tomic bomb that just one day went off.

Mm-hmm , it's usually a lot of like little. Infidelity is that happen in the quiet of each other's hearts? And so whether it is, you know, snippy comments or gossiping or not sharing or sharing a half truth or exaggerating, if you not, if you just let all the slip by, it just gets easier and easier and easier to live that lifestyle of, of the seed, you know?

And so maybe it's not necessarily that, you know, you're, you've been unfaithful to your husband, physic. But you've already been unfaithful on your heart many times. And so I think it's really important to, um, use the sacrament of, of confession and, and, and just recheck it and think like, you know, many times like, well, what is it that first attracted me to this person?

Or what, you know, let me make a list. You know, my, it doesn't have to be like a physical respect, something that is important. Like, what are the like great attributes that I love about my spouse and, you know, I, I truly honestly believe that Joe helps me to be a better person, you know? So I think it's important to, to think of, of those things, of how, how you're better together, what, how, how you're better together.

And I think like one thing that I realize also here it's, it's important to take care of each other and it's not like, you know, she's a trophy husband or I'm a trophy wife, but I think it's, you know, when, when you're dating you like take such great care of like looking nice. You know, shaving and making sure, like, we SHA for the guys of course, but like, you know, like, or us like, you know, getting our hair done or looking nice.

And then it seems like, and I see it so many times people get married and then it's like, they think that tell me their husband went blind and then like in Swiss there, or, and it's like, there's nothing wrong with Swiss, but it's like, come on, use it for the gym and you can wear like something different.

You know, like it's important to at least treat your husband the same way you treated him when you were dating, at least, you know, so if you took the time and the energy, maybe it was 10 minutes, maybe, you know, this is something that my mom used to do and that, I don't know that Jon knows, but I do that, you know, I said a timer, um, about like 10 minutes or so before I, I think he gonna come home and I try to.

Brush my hair before he comes home or, and, you know, like maybe like put a little bit of perfume or, I mean, just little bit nice that he comes home and he does not find a woman that is like completely exasperated and at the edge of like a nervous breakdown, you know? And it's like something like, even though two minutes before I got there, that's what was going on.

Exactly. but it's important. You, you, you don't take each other for granted just because you're. Doesn't mean like, oh, I got them now, you know, like, oh, I got her, like now it doesn't doesn't matter. Like whether I'm nice or not nice, whether they have manner. No, no, no, no. Use the same manner. She's like, you know, big exquisite, like in that, in that, in that relationship, like risk just really, you know, I mean, to me, it's something silly, but to me, it's, it means a lot the way that your treats me with so much respect and, and love and.

You know, I mean, the manner she uses to me, it means a lot, you know, you can say the same words, but she's using different manners, different looks different, you know? I don't know. So I think it's really important to watch with the little things. It can either make it or break it. Absolutely. Cuz that's like you guys both said really well, that's where it starts.

That's where the breakdown in a marriage starts. But it's also where you can build that really strong foundation to build upon. It's really beautiful. I wanna talk about different areas of marriage. I I'd love to hear from you. The habits that you've developed in these areas. And, and some advice you'd give to, to other couples listening right now, or anyone who really wants to be married one day, uh, the first area is money.

So this is one of the top causes of divorce. It can be a very difficult, intense topic for a lot of people. Uh, what habits have you developed and what advice would you give. Boy. It's so funny. You ask here we are 15 years into it and I can tell you, uh, Joey, one of the things that we all see right now, when you go to the grocery store, it seems like, you know, your, your dollar gets a little bit less than it did, you know, just, just a few months ago, if you're buying for meat, you know, paying for meat or this or that.

I remember a few short years ago. It seemed like when Marie would make a meal, it would last two to three nights. Um, early on maybe four, the kids are older and now that the kids are older, it's kinda like, you know, you're, you're, you're cutting down your own ration. You're ING your, your spot and you see your son, who's 11, he like two, three times more than you.

And you're kinda like, oh, and there's what happened to you and there's no leftovers. So my point is, is that. It does certainly stresses, stretches, you know, things thin a little bit, if that meal that you, maybe you were hoping to get another night out of, you got one night and not only that, but it costs more money.

So I think the common theme of communication is really important. And one of the things that Marie and I do, you know, we, it sounds really good, but we try to put it into practice. It's called living a spirit of poverty. So, you know, Maybe you, you know, doesn't mean that, you know, you don't never eat ice cream, but maybe, you know, you have ice cream once a week.

Uh, maybe there's, maybe there's a special feast day or celebration. You have it twice a week, but I can't believe that's coming out of my mouth, but my wife has trained me well but my point is is that, uh, especially as we get older and maybe you're not making that much more money, every. It seems like it's getting stretched then to talk about a budget and try to live a budget.

And before the month starts say, Hey, this is what we can anticipate is our income. How are we gonna spend those dollars? I can tell you in the last week our dishwasher went, went bust and it's not like we had money in a dishwasher account. You know, we had to find a way to, to, you know, where's that money gonna come from and where are we gonna sacrifice?

You know, the cost of that, you know, in terms of our budget. And then we look into the future and we say, well, maybe this bill can wait, or maybe we pay a portion of this. Uh, like when the HVAC and AC busted, you know, a month and a half ago, uh, we'll put half on a credit put a year. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, but the point is is you, you have to talk about those things.

You don't put 'em under a rug and thankfully, um, you know, Maria gets it, we have a conversation and we put together a plan and we, we try to make it work and we pray and. You know, a little side job thing came together and, and God always provides, you know, I remember one time earlier in our relationship, I, I did the bills on a particular night.

I said, Maria, I got great news. And she said, what? I said, we have 58 cents in our checking account. And oh my, she , that's not good news. She stopped me. She says, okay, why, why is that good news? you're like me, Maria. I said, because we pay a lot paid all our bills this month. there you go. So, anyway, my point is, is that, uh, uh, communication, certainly some prayer.

But putting, having a plan. Yeah. I think it's really important. Like so many it's so prevalent nowadays to make like a, uh, how do you call them? Like you contract before you get married? Uh, prenuptial agreement. What? Prenuptial? Oh, at prenup, I think like when people go into marriage like that, they're already going in with the divorce mentality.

Yeah. Okay. What if it doesn't happen? What if it doesn't work? Like, how are we going to this? You know, how are we going to like, do this? So honestly I would have, like, if you have one of those, I would make a bonfire and the two of you together, rip it up and burn it and just burn your shifts. So you cannot come back.

I mean, this is like great advice, you know? Um, I think it's not my money or his money. We talk about it, like Joe said, and I'll give you an example, you know, um, we were, you know, we were like considering getting like some, some yard work done. And I was getting some quotes over the phone and this person was really, really persuasive, just really pushy, I should say.

And you know, I'm, I'm not, I, I take my time, especially when it comes to bigger things. I mean, I, I don't have to, you know, we don't have to talk about like, you know, when Joe goes to Lowe's and get this or that, or, you know, if I go to the grocery store or, you know, go shop clothes for the kids, I mean, that's like normal things.

but I told the man, I said, you know what, let me give you a call back. I'm gonna talk to my husband and you know, and he was a part, he like you, like in this day and age, you need to ask her permission, like, are you serious? And I said, I'm not asking for permission, but this is our money. This is our investment.

And so when there's something that's out of the ordinary, you bet we're gonna talk about it. I mean, you know, I mean, does Joe know what I'm doing during the day? And do I know what he's gonna be doing? Of course we do, because we love each other. And because we control each other because we love each. And if there's certain, you know, things like bigger, you know, whether it's a bigger amount or out of the ordinary where, whether it's like, Hey, it's wedding gift for like an is getting married.

Well, it's a gift to both of us. Like we should talk about it. Oh. It's like, we wanna like make this donation for charity. Well, yeah, it's a gift to both of us. So I think it's really important to talk about it, to communicate until it's not his or. It's ours. I mean, you, you are one forever. You're a team. I love that.

That's great advice. How about faith? So, you know, some people listening, aren't people of faith, uh, some are. And so why, why is, yeah, it's so important to be on the same page when it comes to that, uh, to begin with. And we've talked about that in other episodes on this show, but, uh, but yeah. What are some of the habits that you've developed around faith and what's the advice you'd give to, to other couples?

Well, if I may just start by saying this, uh, you know, a person's faith. We all believe in something. Okay. Uh, with regards to faith, we might say, well, I don't believe in God. Well, your faith is that you don't believe in God, but so you have a faith. Uh, I, I would say to somebody that maybe doesn't have a faith in God to just be, be open to potentially that, and God, if you are, you know, it could be very simple.

It could be, it could be you alone in a room saying, you know, God, if you're there, show me, let me see. You know, open my heart in a different way, my mind in a different way and be open. If there's a result, one of two things is gonna happen. You're gonna wake up the same person you were the day before. But I, I, I would Gander to say that what's really gonna happen is that once you open yourself up to that, God is going to answer that.

And your faith will grow in a way you've never seen it grow. You'll see things differently. And then you'll say, oh my gosh, there's something to this. So with that is background, you know, the old saying that we've heard before, you know, family doesn't pray, you know, pray together, Grammy that pray together, stays together.

Uh, there's so much truth in that. And I can't give to my wife and I can't give to my guy, my family, if I first don't find a way. Ask God to enter my life and help me to be the best father and husband. I know all my faults, my wife, as you can see, um, is so kindly, uh, has some blinders on to a degree, but I know I, and she both know that there are many faults that I carry and, and thankfully I have a partner in life that helps me overcome myself.

Uh, but even bigger than that, I, I, you know, it starts with God and saying, Lord, help me with this because I can't do. And then it happens and it happens the next day and the next day. And there's some falling, like we talked about earlier and you get up and you keep at it. And before you know it, you see wonderful things develop around you just by making a little bit of effort.

So prayer, not just in the morning, but throughout the day. Let me tell you there's many times. And, and, and I'll keep, keep quiet for this, but there's many times. I think in any of our lives, but particularly as a father, you feel like you're on the front lines where things are tough, whether it's a work related situation, whether it's job insecurity, uh, whether it's losing your job and being out of work.

Okay. We've kind of been through a lot of it over the last 15 years. There's a lot of very difficult scenarios that all of us husband or wife, uh, or children are confronted with. And especially at those times, We need to dig deep and we need to ask, uh, for that help. Well, I think like why I don't think I know God is love.

And so if you don't have God in your life, it's gonna be pretty impossible to find true love. So that's. Number one. Um, if you don't have faith, I really surely recommend that you go on your knees and just ask God. They like every day, just for like 10 seconds, God give you the gift of faith. And he, he won't give, I mean, he's not gonna impose it on you, but he won't give you that gift of faith.

And then, um, you know, Jo has already mentioned how we wake up in the morning and, and pray together. Uh, we dress to the family, rose girls also as a family, but then two things that Joe and I do, we, we both have spiritual directors, which is almost like a, like a spiritual coach, like a life coach. You know, when you think of like all these people, like going on, like Nutrisystem or weight Watchers, or, you know, all these things and all of them have support groups or, you know, this.

You know, even like on, on America's got talent. I mean, all these people, like they have their coaches or their trainers. and I mean, for marriage and for life, for holiness, that is something that is much more important. And I mean, your whole happiness relies on it. And here we just pretend that we can just do it by ourselves.

It's unbelievable. So, you know, it's impossible. So every two weeks, Joe and I individual. Meet with the, as project director. And they, they really know us and they, they help us and we're just like super honest and it just really helps keep us on track. And then the other thing is we each go on a, uh, retreat, a weekend weekend, silent retreat once a year, we don't go together.

We go separate. And so it's a second retreat, completely silent course. It's like guided first and there's, you know, like mass. But it really, to me, it's like, honestly, it's like being on my table. Like I don't wanna go back. I'm like, this is like so amazing, but it really brings a lot of perspective. And like when you are outside, you know, of like, it's so difficult to see a circumstances.

I mean, I was just talking to Joe's sister today about one of her daughters and, you know, I, I told her, I said, you know, I think it's, it's very easy for someone to see something when you're outside, when you're like in the middle of the problem. You don't really baby. See it, you know? And so I think like when we take that step back and we go for a whole weekend, just dedicated it to God you, I mean, at least I come back home with lots of resolutions.

I'm super excited to. Start working, like putting another new brick in our marriage, like another new brick and like strengthening our foundation, like, you know, fixes this window in our family unit like this. I mean all these things and they're very precise and, and, and concrete, you know, it's not like I'm going to love my husband more.

I mean, well, I mean, how am I gonna love him more? Well, you know what, maybe I'm going to complain less when he leaves his like 30 socks, like laying around and, you know, I mean, that's something concrete. That's, that's how, you know, It's it's like when you, we say, oh, I love people in Ethiopia. So it's impossible.

You love people in Ethiopia because you don't live in and many times God's a, God asked us the murderdom of little pinches, you know, like he's not gonna ask us to give a life or the prot of Liberty of the United States. I. Most, I mean, most likely we're not going to be asked to do these heroic act, but he asked us to be heroic in the little things, you know, to be heroic, to smile when we don't feel like smiling to help each other out, to talk kindly.

Those are the little acts of, of love and faith and kindness that God is asking us. And honestly, God is so much more generous and what we could ever even imagine, or, or believe that if you just stray a little bit. You're gonna, your marriage is gonna be amazing. Honestly, the one thing I just wanted to add is that, you know, when things are very tough and difficult, the point I was trying to get at was, and I said it a little bit earlier, but I just wanna be very clear.

Sometimes the attacks are so intense and it's like the evil ones at your doorstep and you feel. You can feel the emotions, uh, the, the sense of it around you and you know, that there's a battle there. And sometimes we are no match for that. Okay. Uh, we are too small for that. And that's really when, uh, at least from my perspective, as a father, as a husband, uh, I really, I'm kind of begging and, and they come in the form of aspirations.

God helped me, you know, hail Mary holy Mary heal me. Dear Lord help me, God, mercy on me. Jesus, be with me, you know, and, and it's a fight. It's a battle. And sometimes just repeating those words, you're, you're also sending a message that, Hey man, you can't mess with me cuz I have the king behind me and back off, man, just back off and, and let me tell you, you will win that battle.

because God is with you and then you will be able to come back and, and get up and be much more stronger. And. And be able to love your, your, your wife and kids. So like, like Joey, our senses, we call him after this. Joey of course. of course he, he says hail Mary full of grace, punch a devil in the face. The next area I wanted to talk about is communication, uh, including conflict and disagreements.

Again, we talked on about this a little bit, but this is a really critical area to get right in your marriage. So what are some of the additional habits besides for what we touched on already that in your marriage, and then what advice would you give to, to young couples to developing habits like those?

You know, honestly, I can say, especially like, if people have gone through. um, divorced parents or, you know, separate parents. I can see a little bit of that in Joe. Um, like we might have some disagreement, like it's, it is almost like he's, um, I don't wanna say scared because he's not scared, but he's like, he really went quickly, wants to put the lid on, you know, And sometimes I have, um, it's not like it's good to talk things over.

Like it's not, you know, like sometimes if, if you like slice it over too quickly, like it just festers their, so it's, it's, it's important that people realize that having a respectful discussion or argument like. Keep in mind. He's very poor guy is married to Spanish, who is lots of fashion. And I talk with my hand, I talk with my voice.

I'm always like excited. You know, I couldn't tell so poor guy is like having like heart attack over like over heart attack, like, you know, day and day. Uh, but I think it's, it's important to be able to talk about things it's important to have strong feelings it's important. And it's interesting too, to get to know each other.

So I think it's, as long as you're respectful, as long as you're caring and loving, and it's really important that whoever who's a stronger one says, sorry, the first. And I wanna say it again. Whoever's the stronger one says, sorry, the first. And when you say two don't tango of 2, 1, 2, you know, so if you are in an argument, it's not because, well, she said, oh, well he said, no, no, you're in this argument because both of you want to be in an argument.

And so it's good to, you know, even if you like. So it's very through your close tooth and you're like, I'm really sorry, but it's like, but it's like, you know, you just put like a hurdle to pride and the other, it just catches the other person by surprise. Yeah. And it's just like, you know what, I take a break and it's good to like, like Joe said, like, you know, maybe like go, go for a walk or go little bit.

You know, father rocking. He used to say, you know, uh, many times like, you know, moms tell me that, you know, my baby is cranky because either hungry or thirsty or tired, well guess what? In the end, aren't we all like little kids. I mean, it's, it's happened to me so many times. Like I'm thirsty and I'm just a bad mood.

I, I just have. A glass of water, like, oh man, world. I mean, this life suddenly like, looks so much better. yeah. Filling those basic needs. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Certainly when you have kids, like when Joseph, when you have stress from, from work or, you know, your, your coworkers, this and that, sometimes it's just like, like you just need a little, I mean, we're not, we're not robots.

We're people. We have emotions. We have our heart, we have and we're body and soul. So you cannot. She has on faith alone. I mean, we're, we're not spirits. So we, we also have to take care of our bonding needs, you know, not just the, the faith aspect, of course, as number one, that we're both body and son. So it's important to, to be arrested when you communicate to you not don't, don't start to, don't start an argument when you're like, you know, tired or hungry or there's, I mean, You know, maybe do it after lunch, maybe, you know?

Um, one thing that I, I was told is when I have to break down wrong, not, I always want to cover his ears and he doesn't hear this and it's like, um, they said, you know, when you hear something like difficult or something you discuss with your husband, like, make sure you first call him a little bit, like maybe like make it like a nice dinner, maybe like go on a date.

I don't know, like make it a little bit, so like, it's easier to talk about it. And the other person can feel like, although they might be hearing something difficult or, or challenging at the, on the other hand, at least you're getting your favorite meal. Is there eating this? Like the other half of them is thinking like, she loves me so much.

She spent like three hours in, in the kitchen, like making this cuz she knows. She knows how I like it so much. It's not like here we are, like the basement flooded and, um, you know, like here's the next school belt. And then let me tell you, like something like, we really have to talk because I nurse about to fall apart.

Well, right there is really not the moment to talk about it, you know? So I think it's really important to look for the right situation. Ask the holy spirit and then, you know, your biggest, um, ally is your spouse's garden angel. You know, I go to, to Joe's garden angel, a. um, it is something that actually Joe taught me to do when we were dating.

It's amazing. How many times, like he might say something and I'm like, oh, I don't even have to bring it up. and it's great because he thinks it's his idea. So it's even better. and the other thing I would just say, Joey is, you know, sometimes us, us skies, we wanna want to try to fix things. Sometimes just communication is just being a good listener.

And you know, if you don't have an answer, then there's been many a times I've told Maria I, you know, let me think about it. We could talk about it tomorrow. So it's, and it's great. He's, he's a great listener, great people person. So many times I go to him and I'm like, I don't know how to deal with this person or that person.

And he has CR I mean, because we are so D. Like things that just look like so much common sense to him. To me, it's just like a revelation and like, Thank goodness. it's beautiful. I wanna talk a little bit about suffering. We could do a whole show on suffering, but it can destroy a marriage. It, it really can.

How have you guys handled suffering? I know, I know you've been through a lot of suffering, but especially with baby James. Um, so talk about that a little bit, if you would, uh, how have you handled it and what advice would you give to, to couples who maybe are facing suffering right now or who will in the future?

I think it's just a matter. Of when not if thank you, Joey. Uh, well, on the 30th of August, um, this last we celebrated his nine year old birthday. He turned his birthday was nine years ago, this past, uh, August 30th. And without getting into the huge story, if you're, if your listeners go to, uh, YouTube and, uh, put in baby James Nicholas, they can, uh, spend 21 minutes.

We promise, uh, they won't be disappointed. It'll it? Share our lives and the story of our son, but very simply put, uh, we were blessed at the time with three kids, uh, and Maria was pregnant, uh, with number four and we went to a routine ultrasound and, uh, it was after that ultrasound that we were, uh, told that, uh, uh, our child has, you know, pretty severe defects.

And were was, were told that he wouldn't survive birth right at, at that time, we didn't know he or she, we found out later in the day, uh, because we wanted to pray for our baby by name. It turned out he was a little boy and he had a severe, uh, defect called osteogenesis and perfecto type two, which is a fatal, brittle bone disease.

And again, they said your child's gonna die birth, uh, or maybe live a minute or two. So I will say this, you talk about gifts. Uh, I'll never forget driving, uh, and down the driveway up to our home. I think my mom, uh, was watching the kids, uh, as we went to this routine appointment, which obviously wasn't routine.

I remember pulling into our driveway and, um, Marie reminded me, the kids were with us and I just looked at the house. We lived in, I looked at the yard, I looked at my lovely wife and the kids we had in the car. I said, Lord, you know, just take this home, take this property. Just leave being my wife and kids.

And if you can give us a healthy, you know, if you could let James live, that would be a great thing. But at that point, I just wanna say that, uh, you know, truly, truly, truly the gift of detachment was given to us because he realized at that point, no material mattered. What mattered was, uh, the people in that were in that car right there and the baby in her womb.

And, uh, it was a true gift. You can say suffering. Yeah. There was certainly some suffering knowing, and, and not knowing what might happen, especially for a mother that's carrying the child. But even through that suffering, let me tell you, there were so many prayers and graces and so many gifts, and it was the gift to really recognize and appreciate each other marriage.

The children that we had, but also the life that was in, in, in, in the womb of Maria and ultimately, uh, who was born, I don't wanna spoil the, the 21 minute video that your listeners are gonna watch, but, uh, truly, uh, he was a great gift. Uh, but yes, there was certainly moments of suffering there. And Maria can comment more on that.

Well, Joe is very strong. I'm not so strong. Um, so I suffered a lot. Yeah. Be very honest. Um, and even my, my dad told me recently, he said, oh, are, are you over it? And I said, dad, that's something that you never get over losing a child. And I'm smart enough to not, for example, like this video. I can't watch it.

Like, I mean, um, Joe loves watching it and I maybe watch it once a year, but that's, that's my capacity. I mean, I, I cannot watch it more than, and I'm smart enough that I don't, you know, on, we live in Chicago in this wonderful gray, long winter days that are just and ending, um, on those days I don't, I don't sit in front of a picture of James and put.

Sad music I'm on rap stuff. I mean, I'm smart enough not to do stuff like that, but it is. I find it it's like a hole you have in your heart. Like sometimes it's like the says of a prick and you can't even tell and you just go around and sometimes it's like your whole heart as a whole and it just happens, you know?

And so I think it's, um, you know, one thing that really helped me and it's not a book that is for people. I have lost a child or a specific suffering, but I recommend it to anybody who's maybe like 18 and older. Um, just because, I mean, I don't say younger than 18 because you don't get as much at it, but not because there's any content that should be censored at all.

It's a small little book and it's called trustful surrender to God, Cine Providence. And that book helped me so much, the small little. But it's so, so powerful. And it's, he's really realizing to put everything in God's hands and asking God, let me be at peace with whatever is your plan for me. And when you are, when you've gotten to that point, when you pray, let me be at peace, then you truly will be at peace with whatever happens.

And I think it's very important when you do have the. I mean, we're obviously very different. Like Joe was Tru my, my rock, but it, I was very, like, I was very honest. Like I cried plenty of times and you know, with my, with my head, of course, I knew that, you know, God is my father and he only. Gives us wonderful and beautiful things.

And his plan is much more beautiful than, than ours, but with my heart, with my heart, I was like, how in the world is this God? I mean, are you kidding me? This is, this, this feels pretty bad to me. You know? And so it was that, that pain, not, not, I mean, of course, of, of having a sex child. You know, as a parent, what you want to do is to protect your child to do as much as, as possible.

There's nothing you can do, but also having that strain between heart and head, how do you even, uh, unify that? So I think it's super important to, again, work on your friendship, spend time with each other. Again, if you, I'm not saying, you know, don't talk to your sisters and I mean, of course, like, or with your friends or, but it's really important.

Keep working on this friendship, because if I would've shared at the same level, my pain or with the same intensity or, or that frequency with somebody else, it would've been very easy to build a, an unwanted bridge with that person. And so it's really important to be together. I mean, Joe and I prayed plenty, plenty.

Um, through that time together, I think it's also important to figure out what can, what can help and not help. Uh, I know for example, in America, it's very, it's very traditional to help people out with meals, honestly, after James passed away, I mean, I was like, please people do not bring me meals because then you, I mean, I, I had just had a baby.

Like I, you know, I had all these little ones and if you take away my kids, if you take it, you know, if you, if you bring me the meals, then I'm just laying in bed, like sobbing all day. So I think it's important to communicate, to see what your needs are and to, to. Be United, you know, that's great advice in closing out.

I just wanna ask you guys, what word of encouragement would you give to, to anyone listening who really desires a beautiful marriage? They, they want love that lasts, but they may have doubts. They may doubt that it's possible for them because of what they've seen, what they've been through. And so what, what would you say?

What encouragement would you. To them? Well, the first thing I would say to every one of them is the, the reality that they are super loved. And I want them to look at their lives is though, uh, um, from the perspective of God who created them, if they can. Uh, and I know this might be bigger challenge for, you know, the folks that might not be believers.

God, uh, came down in this world and, and through Jesus Christ and died for each and every one of them. And if they were the only person in the world, God died for them. Okay. And God loved them. And it's important for each of them and in all of your listeners and all of us to, to understand at all times that we are super loved, super loved.

And if we can understand that. Um, uh, we can, we can offer that perspective and that same love to our spouses because our capacity to love knowing that we're super loved right. Is huge. But also knowing that we have this incredible partner, this incredible gift that's been given to us in the form of our wife, or maybe our husband and as Maria.

So nicely said the path to heaven is through that. And, and that's the great gift we have. And, you know, I was struck one time when I heard it, uh, um, something when I was a younger father and husband, where, where, uh, someone had, I read somewhere that, that the average person, the average father, uh, or husband maybe spends less than two minutes of time of genuine time, like eye contact with their child.

And I heard that, and it was kind of hard to believe and I'm thinking. That just doesn't seem right. So I kind of did a little self test and I realized as a young busy husband and father, um, I probably was, you know, not too much more than that statistic, uh, with my own kids and maybe even my own wife as, as crazy as that sounds.

Um, and as you get older, uh, um, and the kids stay up a little later. Your time seems to decrease, right, honey. Uh, so that's why, as Maria mentioned, it's so important to take some of that time, but I just think, you know, love comes in the form of not just saying, Hey, I'm gonna love someone more, but it comes in the form of different deeds and actions, concrete resolutions, and one of them for me, after I heard the statistics was just simply eye contact, looking at my child and.

Do you know how special you are. Do you know how special God made you? You are so loved. And let me tell you the, the smiles that come from their faces when they, you know, they love when he tells and then they love it. They, yeah. So anyway, that's so important. And then of course, uh, doing a little bit of that with your.

With your spouse and some spontaneous dancing and singing I know your voice might not be the best. I would say a combination of those little things, uh, go a long way. And, and, you know, we all hear the saying, don't sweat, the small stuff. Don't take, don't take yourself too seriously. You know what I mean?

You know, it really, at the end of the day, you know, you lose your job, you lose your house. You know, I don't think any of us have starved. Maybe we go a little hungry here and there, but listen, we're well cared for. And, uh, uh, there's nothing really ever, uh, too much to get too worked up over, uh, as long as you have, you know, your family and, and know that you're loved and, and.

Uh, you can pass that love onto your, your wife and kids. That's a, it's a really special thing. Mm. I was gonna say, you know, um, number one, I mean, dreaming, your dreams will fall short. I mean, the adventure of marriage with the right person is like amazing. I mean, that's why the beginning, I'll tell you again.

I never knew that I was marrying somebody so amazing. And I'm just, I mean, I, I'm excited every day to wake up next to Joe and, and get to know them more. I mean, I am excited. I mean, I'm, I'm gonna remind her. She said that tomorrow at five in the morning. I'm genuinely excited. Like when he comes home, like to spend time together.

Like, I mean, you know, sometimes I, I have to say like, I'm like go to bad. Like I just wanna, you know, I think joy asked me today, or yesterday later, what's about, I said, I just want everyone to go to bed. So you and I can be by ourselves. Like not to do anything next special, but just to happen to myself, I'm like, I just went out to myself.

I'm sorry, I'm selfish, but I'm like . Um, and I think it's like really important to, you know, like I said, like with the right person, you know, when people talk about their career, when people invest in university, they go on all these tours, they, you know, talk to a career counselor and they, you know, how much time do we really spend, you know, researching about marriage?

How much time do we spend. Getting to know the person we're dating and not just like talking about, you know, our favorite foods or let's do this and that. But you know, this is like, you know, I don't think this is like the right way of necessarily, but I had had a previous experience before Joe, like dating wise and it lasted for about like three.

And it wasn't too good. And so, and this was from a, from a, a young man who had as, um, who had assisted at Catholic school. And so when Joe started pursuing me, I felt to myself, well, I'm pretty busy and this guy was a total disaster. So I'm really not, you know, I don't wanna waste my time. Cause I was, I was pursuing two different majors, like I was super busy and this is like, keep in mind.

It's a big commitment, like on the other side of the world. So it are different. And so. You know, like week two or three, when he's emailing back and forth. I said, you know, before we continue in this, like back and forth with these emails, like, it's, it's great to get to know you, but I really need to know what you think of in this, like a 30 question list.

Like, you know, the pop contraception, premarital sex, uh, I mean confession, all these things, you know? And so I think it's really important not to have like a test that you give the other person, but it's really important that you. On these fundamental things, you're not going to change somebody. You're not going to convince somebody, um, invest in.

We make sure that you talk about these things. You know, we have our neighbors across the street. They never thought about traditions growing up and he doesn't want to invite the Easter bunny or Santa, like into their home. For example, she's, she's completely crushed, you know? So I think it's important to talk about.

Things that are important to you to get to know their family, to have a special director that can help you guide you and just not being afraid. I mean, just like I said before, burn your ships and then, you know what they said, there is like the place of no return. You better go forward because there's no place to get back.

And from every after every dark moment, I think it only gets better and better. You know, it's like the it's like wine. If you work in. You know, and it's only going to get bad if, you know, if you don't want to go go better. I mean, I always say we have a, a sister-in-law that was a little bit challenging and I was talking to my mom and I said, you know, if we love her very much, she's not going to be able to not love back.

And so if you're going to a dark moment with your spouse, you know, before throwing away blame or, you know, throwing around blame. Love that person love his balance. Very much with little details with concrete moments like Joe said, and the other person is not going to be able to resist. Love is going to start loving back.

Love conquerers though. No, I love it. No, that's that's great advice. And to everyone listening again, who's discouraged, uh, take heart. It's possible for you to get to the point where you can build love that lasts. And if you do those little things, if you find a virtuous spouse, because remember, as we've said many times on the show, The more virtuous the spouses, the happier the marriage.

So if you can build virtue in your life, those good habits seeking after what is good, uh, and find someone who's doing the same and do that together, uh, you're gonna have a happy marriage. It might be difficult at times you might suffer, but you will suffer will be difficult at times. But through those experiences you can keep growing, uh, like Joan Maria said really well, so you can do it.

You can write your own story. You don't have to repeat the pattern. That you saw in your family, which often runs generations long, but you truly can create a beautiful marriage. And to be that example that your kids and your grandkids will talk about Joe Maria. Thank you so much for, for coming on. If people want to, uh, connect with you, how can they do that?

Uh, I would say Spanish KES, yahoo.com is an email that we have. And, uh, uh, again, Spanish KES, K E L L E R S. Yahoo. They're welcome to, uh, ask a question or say hello. Or when they're in the Chicago area come, you know, say, say, meet the family. yes, there you go. We're real. You're that's one thing I'll have to remind people of this.

Isn't fake. This isn't acting, this is real, like really he did Joey for the record. Did not pay us to say any of this. We'll talk about that after. No, I'm just kidding. We wanna enjoy little controlled chaos. Uh, they're welcome to come. there you go. I love it. Well guys, thank you so much. And we'll throw all that in the show notes, the email, as well as the video, um, that Joan and Maria mentioned, you really should watch that I've watched it so beautiful and you can hear kind of how that story ended.

So guys, thank you so much for your time. I know it's valuable. Really appreciate you being here, Joey. Thank you. God bless you. It was great. Thank you audio. Man. I just love them. I seriously love Joe and Maria. Every time I go over to their house for dinner, or just spend time talking with them, it's just an absolute joy.

I, I always have such a great time with them and it's just so beautiful that the marriage they've built, the family they've built, their kids are great as well. And, and they're so real. They're so human. It's not. Their heads are in the clouds. They are very down to earth and they just love so much. And they're so joyful and so happy.

So I'm glad that you guys got to know them in terms of takeaways, Joe and Maria, to me prove what's possible for love and marriage. They prove that love can last. They prove that marriage can be beautiful, can be fun. It can be adventurous. You can fall more in love with your spouse. As time goes on all the.

It's just so beautiful to, to see a couple like them, because sadly it's rare. It's rare to see someone who, who has a great marriage. Now, if you wanna contact Joe and Maria, like they said, you can email them, uh, one correction though. It's Spanish Kells, gmail.com, not Yahoo. So Spanish. KES and KES is spelled with two LS, gmail.com.

We'll throw that in the show notes for you guys. So you can just click on it. If you wanna email him, feel free to just reach out with any questions you have or just to say, thank you for them coming on the show and sharing, uh, their advice and their story. If you wanna watch the video about baby James, you can go to restored ministry.com/ 28.

Again, that's restored ministry ministry says singular.com/two eight on the page. You can click to, to play the video about baby James. Keller, like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, there's a virtual healing retreat for adult children of divorce, anyone 18 and older. This is hosted by life giving wounds, Dr.

Daniel Meola. You may remember from episode nine, they're really one of the only organizations out there next to restored, and maybe a couple others that are producing. Content and resources for people who come from broken homes. And so this specific retreat is virtual. Like I mentioned, it's a series of evenings that are seven weeks an hour and a half each week.

They're on Thursday, evenings from 8:00 PM to nine 30 Eastern time. And it starts on October 1st. And the last night is October 12th. The cost is a hundred dollars, but if you're a college student and you actually get a discount, you'll only pay $50. So it's half off really good deal. The, the spots are limited.

So make sure to sign up right away if you want. In the last day to register is October 6th. So make sure you get in before that and to, to sign up or just to see the speaker line up the topics that are gonna cover, and then the whole schedule go to life. Giving wounds. Dot org slash online retreat. Again, that's life giving wounds.org/online retreat.

And if you don't wanna type that all out, we'll throw them in the show notes as well that you can just click on it. And I will say it is a Catholic retreat, primarily geared towards Catholics, but anyone can attend and you're still gonna get a lot out of it. And they'd be more than happy to kinda walk you through things if you're not familiar with Catholicism, but, uh, but just be warned that it is a Catholic retreat.

And that's the background that they're coming from full disclosure. I have not been on the retreat myself, but I've heard good things about it from people. That I trust. So hopefully that's a good resource for you guys. Hopefully that's helpful. Sign up today, or just go to that link to, uh, to learn more.

Again, that's life giving wounds.org/online retreat. As always, the resources mentioned are in the show notes of restored ministry.com/two eight restored ministry.com/twenty. Thank you so much for listening. You're the reason we do this. If this has been useful, please subscribe and share this with someone, you know, who could use it.

Always. Remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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Story Restored Story Restored

My Parents' Divorce Made It Hard for Me to Believe in Lasting Love

My parent's divorce made it very hard for me to believe in lasting love. I felt scared of and unworthy of love. My father never made me feel beautiful and the fact that I always had to try so hard to earn his love set me up for giving too much in relationships because I felt I wasn't enough and had something to prove.

marcos-rivas-XwoEqypRs-I-unsplash.jpg

1 minute read

This story was written by Shenandoah Lawson at 30 years old. Her parents divorced when she was 12 years old. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

My parents should have never gotten married. There was no love between them. They only got married because my mom got pregnant with my older sister and my father guilted my mother into marrying him, saying that she would go to Hell if she didn't.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

Honestly, my parents’ divorce was a relief at first. We didn't have to hear them fight every day, but then things got very bitter and we hardly saw my mom. My dad used us and tried to turn us against her which was so hurtful because she was my hero growing up.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

My parents’ divorce made it very hard for me to believe in lasting love. I felt scared of and unworthy of love. My father never made me feel beautiful and the fact that I always had to try so hard to earn his love set me up for giving too much in relationships because I felt I wasn't enough and had something to prove.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

We are the sum of many broken parts, but that doesn't mean we are broken. We can choose to love and live better. We are not destined to make the same mistakes, but we can learn from them.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED OR SEPARATED FAMILIES

I like to say "When your heart hurts, love even more." I think looking for ways to practice showing and receiving love helps heal so much, whether it's volunteering or working somewhere that requires you to show patience and empathy.

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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#027: Tips for Building a Great Marriage from an Amazing Couple - Part 1 | Joe & Maria Keller

If you want to build a great marriage, follow the advice of couples who’ve done it. Spend time with them and learn from their example and wisdom.

That's exactly what we do in this episode.

Keller Family.jpg

If you want to build a great marriage, follow the advice of couples who’ve done it. Spend time with them and learn from their example and wisdom.

That's exactly what we do in this episode with the most beautiful married couple Joey knows, Joe and Maria Keller. They offer a roadmap and inspiration for those of us from broken families who often feel lost in building love that lasts:

  • How to handle personality differences and conflict

  • The #1 thing you can do for your kids and friends as a married couple

  • The most important ingredients to build a great marriage


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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

If you wanna build a great marriage, spend time with couples, who've actually done it. Not just the people who study it or write about it, that can be useful and good, but spend time with couples. Who've actually done it and learn from their example and their wisdom. And that's exactly what we do. In today's episode, I interview a couple that has truly the most beautiful marriage that I've ever seen.

They've inspired me so much over the years, and I've learned a ton from them about love and marriage. And so I want you to learn from them too, and I'm super excited for you guys to, to meet them. But why are we doing this in the first place? Why is this so important? Especially for people who come from broken homes whose parents are separated or divorced.

Basically because we lack roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we often feel lost. We feel alone and we're unsure of how to go about building love. That lasts. Also, we may just be afraid of love and marriage to begin with. That was certainly my story because, you know, I saw how badly things ended with my parents.

And I knew that I didn't wanna repeat that in my own relationship. And I know that so many people like us feel that way as well. And so we need a roadmap for love and we need hope that love and marriage can actually last. And those are two things that I've gotten from my relationship with a couple that I interviewed today.

And so I wanted to share it. With you, we'll also talk about how they handle their personality, differences, how they deal with conflict between them. And they also give us advice about the best thing that you can do for your kids. And really anyone who knows you as a couple, we break down the most important ingredients to build a great marriage and they give encouragement for any of us who feel like maybe we can't have that.

Maybe we can't build a great marriage because of what we've experienced in our families. There's so much practical in this episode from this beautiful, married couple. Also at the end, we'll mention a free virtual event that we're doing with the culture project. You'll hear about how you can sign up for that.

The different talks we're given. We're given two talks, one for people who come from broken homes and anyone who loves or leads them. So more info about that at the end. So if any of that sounds useful, keep listening.

Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 27 and this is part one of two. We're gonna just do one episode, but the interview went kind of long.

So we broke it into two to make it more digestible for you. We're also in the middle of our love and relationship series. Research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are actually experienced in our romantic relationships. Why is that? Like I said, at the top of the show, basically, because we don't have a roadmap of love.

We've seen that broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in, in numerous ways in our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on. Find and build authentic love. My guest today are Joe and Mariat Keller. Joe is number eight of nine children, actually huge family.

He grew up in Waukegan, Illinois. He graduated college with a degree in political science, with a focus in business and philosophy. He serves as the executive director of the Fox waterway agency. Although his dream job is being the best husband and father to his wife and amazing kids. Maria is a native of Spain.

She's the oldest of five children. And she moved to the United States after graduating from the autonomous university of Madrid. I was gonna try to say that in Spanish, but I'll spare you all my Spanish as pretty rusty. She graduated with a degree in business administration last year, she was actually promoted to the position of full-time mother, which she absolutely loves her greatest joy is spending time with her husband, whom she grudgingly shares with their children.

They've six kids, one who passed away as you'll hear us talk about in the interview. And you're also gonna hear some of the kids in the background, which I love. They have such a beautiful and real family. And for those of you who aren't religious there, there's a bit of talk about God and faith. It's just so core to who Joe and Maria are.

And it's true. The reason they would say that they're so joyful, but even without those parts, you're still gonna get a ton out of this episode. So keep listening. If you can keep an open mind and honestly you may be tempted to think when you're listening to them that this is fake, but it is not fake.

Like this is not. Them posing. This is actually real. And so anyone who knows them like me knows that they're just, they're so real. They're so genuine. And what you see is what you get. So here's part one of my conversation with Joe and Maria Keller, Joe and Maria, welcome to the show. I'm so happy that you're here.

We're so excited to be here. Thank you, Joe. It's great to be with you. It's no surprise to you or really anyone listening that there's a lot of brokenness in our world. There's a lot of broken marriages and broken families. And for those of us who come from broken homes that can present some challenges, we can become scared of love and marriage.

I know I experienced that. And so many people that we work with experience that as well. We really don't wanna repeat that cycle of brokenness, that cycle of divorce in our own marriages, but we look around and we see, you know, broken marriages all around us. We look at the divorce statistics that we all know.

Um, but even those marriages that stay together, so many of them are medioc. And we really don't wanna emulate them either. So many other, those couples would say that their marriages are unhappy or even miserable. Some of them would say they're even miserable, but you guys are different. You wouldn't describe your marriage like that.

How, how would you describe your marriage? Well, I have to be super, super honest. I thought when Joe and I were engaged at, he was the greatest guy in the world and that I was going to be, uh, so happy for the rest of my life. And then I married him and I realized, oh my goodness, I totally fooled this poor guy because he's even more amazing than what I thought he was

So I am aesthetically happy. This is the best decision that I made to marry this man. And I'm happy. My wife is blind

so we've been married for 15 years. We have six kids ages, uh, 13 to five. And, uh, we've been blessed to know the Contreras for quite a while. Now we love you guys. And I have to say that you both have been such an inspiration to me. You have modeled so well. Uh, what it looks like to, to live out a beautiful marriage and not, not a perfect marriage, I'm not, you know, I'm sure I know you have your own struggles, but you guys live out such a beautiful model of what, what it could look like, what it really should look like.

So I just wanna say thank you so much for that. I, I wanna get into your story. Tell us a little bit about your story. How, how did you meet, uh, Joey? Actually, it was about 2002. Uh, Maria came here from Spain. And she stayed at my oldest sister Kathy's house. Uh, as you might remember, I'm, I'm the eighth of nine kids, big family.

Yeah. And my oldest sister, Kathy is also my godmother. And, uh, I, I heard that there was a, a young lady staying in her house for the summer and long story short. I had my sisters that wanted introduce me to her. It was a kiss of the

So I heard that and I'm like, that's okay. Cuz I'd kind of been there, done that with sisters, trying to set me up. So it was at the end of the summer, I met her, uh, at a little family camp that we had and I said, who's that girl over there? And my brother-in-laws were like, Maria, the girl that your sister's been trying to introduce you to I'm like, oh, okay.

So my mom's a dance teacher, as you might remember. And Maria, uh, along with some nieces and nephews were gonna do a little performance for my mom called the Jan review and Maria was going to demonstrate how Flaco dancing works. And of course she needed someone to, she needed someone to come demonstrate with her.

And, um, how co. I tried and I didn't know what I was doing, but she spun and I spun and then she looked at me and she says, you don't turn your back on a woman. You never turn your back on a woman. and then the rest is history. Here we are. I haven't turned my back on her since Joey. I love it. I love it. And, and Joe, you went after Maria, uh, in Spain, didn't you?

I did Joey. So she was, uh, if I, if I didn't mention it, but she, that was like right at the end of her trip. So she was gonna be going back to Spain two days later. So I had the opportunity to visit with her the night before she left and we just talked and she told me about her, her faith, and she told me kicking interrupt.

Yeah. So I had, sorry. So I had never, I never went to a Catholic school. I was a CRA Catholic and so on. You know, the, the night when we went out, went out with a bunch of other people. . But at the end of the night, Joe took me home and he asked me, he said, um, would you please pray for me? And it was really the first time that I met a young handsome man who was asking me for prayers.

And so I thought, well, there must be something wrong with him. Like, why is he asking me for prayers ? And so I said, sure. And I think in particular, and his answer really touched me. He said, you know, I really don't know what God wants in my life. And I want to be able to figure it out and be brave and say yes.

And that really, it was like a slap to my face because I thought, you know, my prayer's pretty mediocre. Like I'm just having God, you know, this is what I wanted my life and places make it happen. And so it really, you know, although I did not, obviously did not know what God's, um, world was for, for us or when anything like that.

I did not for one second. Imagine. My future with Joe, but it really changed my prayer life. And, um, and it just really helped me to embrace whatever God wanted. And so that was my first impression, like, wow, it's pretty amazing. There's somebody brave enough to pray that prayer. And I will say this Joe, on that note, I, as a young kid, I never really envision myself getting married.

My parents are wonderful. They're still married. But during that time in my life growing up, I, uh, I saw a lot of turmoil in my own house and it wasn't something that where I said, Hey, I wanna be like them. So I always envisioned a different vocation for me. In fact, I remember one night, um, my parents really struggling having a really difficult time.

And, you know, there was some yelling, there was some chaos. And I remember getting down on my knees and saying, Lord, you know, bring peace to my home. Um, and I must have been maybe eight years old, nine years old, and I just prayed for peace and. Shortly after that. Very difficult moment. I remember, uh, my dad asking me he was reading the newspaper.

He says, Hey, do you wanna play football? And I was a fourth grader, you know, I wasn't really enamored with playing football, but it seemed like he wanted me to play football. And my thought was as well, if I play football, uh, maybe it's something that he would enjoy, uh, and that could be helpful in bringing peace to my home.

So mm-hmm, I remember as a young boy playing football and how much enjoyment my dad got out of watching me. Um, so I would, I will say this, uh, never was there a night, like there was that particular night when there was a lot of turmoil and slowly but surely I saw God bring peace to my home, which was really.

A blessing. That's beautiful. And, and that's, that was really hopeful message that it is possible to, to bring peace to troubled homes. I know, uh, it sounds like you can relate to a lot of the people listening right now, who, who do come from that really difficult situation? Well, I think for me, prayer is pretty simple.

Sometimes, you know, you can say some of these great prayers that we all maybe know and, and say regularly, but at that young age, I remembered a three word prayer and it was, God helped me when those are the only words you can utter during very difficult times, I will say never, never once has that prayer been unanswered.

And, uh, from that young age, frankly, that's been a great foundation, uh, for, I know my life and now our lives as parents raising, uh, five wonderful children, uh, one we sent to the good Lord and. Of course meeting many wonderful friends along the way, like the Pelli family and others, where we've been able to grow close to.

Uh, I'm gonna kind of fast forward, cuz I know you have such a beautiful story and we probably should do a whole podcast episode on that, but getting into, uh, your marriage and how you've really built it. And I know it's not something you would take full credit for, but um, I wanna talk a little bit about some practical things.

A lot of couples struggle with their personality differences, you know, one's one way one's the other way. And I'm just curious how, how do you two handle your personality differences? Thank God my wife is so patient. That's all I can say. you're hilarious. No, I think like we're, we're pretty different.

Obviously we're complimentary because we're men and female, but I think the biggest thing to realize is that you cannot change the other person. The only person you can change is yourself. And so if something bothers you about the other person. It's gonna be close, impossible to change them, that reaction, or, you know, even coming from a different culture background, some things might just, you know, to this day seem strange or, you know, whatever sure.

You can't, you can't change the other. Person's like way of doing things, but you can't change that. It annoys you, you know, you can change, you can. Um, I always tell the children, you know, the smile is a muscle. The more you smile, the easier it will be. And it's a great modification. Um, obviously we, we pray together and I'm like an open book sometimes I think a little bit too much.

uh, but I think it's important if there's something that bothers you, that you bring it up, not, not in front of the kids and not in the heat of the moment. I know many times at weddings people, you know, people here at the homily, oh, you know, don't go to bed when you're angry. Well, I think sometimes not when there's like something like huge, of course, but I think sometimes you like, you're so tired and if you're really going to start having a discussion, it's just gonna go down the drain.

I mean, it really will just because you both really tired and in the morning after a good night's sleep, things look so much better. This is like how I, I, and like 90% of the things you don't even have to bring up because it was just your own being tired and just taking things the wrong way. Um, and just realizing the other person on the other side of, of the room or the kitchen or the bed, whatever, they're not your worst enemy.

They're your best friend. Like you chose them over all of the other people in the whole world to spend the rest of the time of your life in eternity. And God has given you the grace. So it's, you know, even if you sometimes think, oh, that hurt me what they said, what they did realize, you know, what that person lost me.

So, so much. Like, let me try to look it through their glasses. Like, you know, and sometimes you can't and you just bring it up and say, you know, they hurt me or whatever. And it's really, I told just Joey a few days ago. It's so freeing to say, you're sorry. And you know, when, when you're blessed with children, even like to the children, I mean many times I mu it into an older mom and it's so nice to tell it to the kids.

I'm sorry. And they're they have such generous heart. They're mommy. It's okay. Don't worry. I forgive you. And it's so nice in marriage also to say I'm sorry. And for the other person not to say, oh no, no, you don't have to be sorry. No. I forgive you just give a big string hug, just start it over again. I love the point you made about changing.

Like you can change. That's something that I think a lot of people are confused about. You can change. You're not the fixed person. You can improve. You can get better, you can develop virtue. And there was a quote I saw recently had said, people can change. You can't change them. and I love. You can only change yourself.

Exactly. And the point you made too, is so good at seeking to, to understand before being understood. That's really hard to do. I can tell you that, but, um, but when you do it helps resolve situations so much quicker, it reduces drama. It, it makes life so much easier overall, but, um, but it's difficult to do, but equally important.

I think another thing that's really important Joey is when you have like a, you know, a discussion and I do think discussions are important and nice just because it, I mean, it brings interesting conversation. If we agreed on everything that, I mean, our conversations would be pretty boring. Uh, so I think it's good to have strong opinions.

I think it's good to have different opinions. Uh, but when there is like some, you know, hurt or something to repeat what the other person's said, you know, say this, did you mean this? Just because number one, it gives you. An opportunity to exercise self control. You're not really reacting to what they said.

You're repeating, you're concentrated on them. Um, and then the other person also hears what they said. Well, no, that's not exactly how I meant that this is what I meant. And you both tend to cool off and to understand, um, each other's point of view and, and maybe the, the tone you said it, or the emphasis, you put the different perspectives.

So I think that's important too. Absolutely. And one thing I'll add as well, Joey, you know, there's all there's habits that I have right now that I know are aggravating to Maria. And there

you're so honest. I love it. They're aggravating to me. And they're probably aggravating to my kids and other people, but in the spirit of love, certain things can be point out, pointed out and we can help each other with those things. My lovely wife is very ordered. Very organized. I might tend to be a little bit more off the cuff and spontaneous.

Okay. just a little bit just amid, you know, here's the thing, the reality of it is is this as much as we can help each other with those things, as it was stated so earlier, you know, we need to make those changes from within. And what I find is, is going back to that simple prayer, God helped me, uh, is also if there's certain things that I identify or my lovely wife helps to identify within me.

I realize that many of those things are too big or too difficult for me to handle. So I have to ask help. And I find that, you know, when my wife's used the term before, when we lost his. Like, you know, you're, you're a prayer beggar. You, you, you pray for, you know, you beg for, you know, prayers. Uh, but with that respect, you also ask God, help me with this.

Or can you help me with that? And you find that little by little, you could make improvements with these things. Um, but you know where it starts for me. I know. And I, I know Maria takes this just as seriously as you wake up at a set time in the morning, the alarm goes off. You, you know, within, within a minute you get outta bed and you go after another day and maybe the day before, wasn't so good, but you know, you shoot at it again and you start your day with prayer, you know, and 30 minutes, a good 30 minutes to, to start your day.

That way kind of kicks things off. And, and that's kind, it sets the tone, it sets the tone and, and that's where you're like, God help me. You know, let's, let's, let's go after this day and let's try to work on some of these weaknesses that, you know, I have that I'm born with, or that I have have had for a long time.

And you could help me overcome myself. Uh, so that could be a better husband, better worker, better son, father, cetera. You made me think of, uh, the quarterback for the, uh, Colts right now, Phillip rivers. He has this hat that says NOK Chapi, which means, you know, begin a new begin again. And, uh, he, he's just a great guy.

Yeah, he he's, he's fantastic, but it's such a good reminder. And he uses that in the football field, but he uses in life too. How you're gonna screw up. You're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna be imperfect, but if you could just restart, reset and you know, Joe, I know you're an athlete and, um, that's so important in athletics, but it's also important in life and especially in marriage.

Absolutely. You know, I many times think about, you know, we, we share a common faith. Um, I many times think about our Lord and how he fell and how he fell three times. And sometimes I wonder, well, why wasn't. Just once. Why was it it, you know, why, why was it three times? And I think the, the, the, at least what, one of the things I take from it is, um, he's showing us something there.

Not only was he physically exhausted, he was giving his entire life and, and everything else that goes along with it, but he got up three times and he kept getting it up and he kept pushing towards where he wanted to go. Mm-hmm him being God, there was probably a way for him not to fall if he really wanted it, but he's human and he fell and we fell a lot more than sometimes three times in a big given day.

And yes, we have to get, get up and keep on going after it. And I think, you know, borrowing from that same, um, image going up to go with that. I think sometimes when the cross, I mean, we all encounter the cross at one point or another in our lives. Mm-hmm, , um, it's just a matter of time and I think it's beautiful to see also.

That. And it helped me a lot, um, to see that Jesus, God could not bear the weight of the cross. It was so, so heavy, so crushing that it would just drag him to the floor. And he couldn't. I mean, he, he, he only could like lift the back up and that he needed the help of a, um, of a farmer coming out, you know, coming back to his home seminar Cyrene and they had to force him to help Jesus.

And so many times when there's a big cross or a little cross, and, uh, most of all, like, you know, when we lost our son, I would just tell Jesus, you know, I cannot with this cross, this is way too heavy. Like you be my Simon or serving. I need you to help me carry this cross. And so that's my mental, like work cry.

Like sometimes when you know, I'm having a hard day, this, that I, I just tell him you be my Simon, come on, pick up this cross. I can't do it by myself. So. It's uh, it's good. Like Joe says to keep the, the prayer ongoing, um, and just have a conversation with God that really sets the tone for the day. That's beautiful.

One thing that you, you said too, you guys are different, you have different personalities, but I could tell you compliment each other well, and I think that's so beautiful. You know, Joe, you balance up Maria or you balance up Joe and, uh, I, I think that's one of the purposes of marriage, right? One of the purposes of marriage is to help each spouse become the best version of themselves.

And so that's exactly, I think what happens though, when we have those personality difference, those personality differences, it's not. How perfect a couple can fit together, but really what they do in those moments when they disagree, when they fight, how they handle those, I think is an indication of how healthy and how successful that their marriage will be.

And another thing that you mentioned too, is just Maria, you were touching on communication. It it's. So we'll talk about that a little bit more, but it's so easy to, if you've ever played the, the game telephone, right? Where you pass a message through a line, it's so easy to misconstrue what other people are saying.

And I saw a great, uh, diagram that said, you know, when you're communicating something to someone else you can think of, uh, on the left side, you, you have, uh, what you mean. And then you can think of an arrow that goes across, then what you say. So what you mean, then what you say, what comes outta your mouth?

And then on the person on the receiving side, you draw another arrow. It's what they hear. Mm-hmm and then what they understand. And then the cycle repeats itself in, in a circle. They, they mean something. They say something, you hear it, and then you understand it. And in that, in that process, uh, things can be misunderstood misconstrued.

And so I love what you said to, to repeat, to reflect what the other person is saying. That's a really practical tip that someone can start using right now, if they're not. And is that thing like we're, so, uh, we live in a society where everything has to be like really, really fast and like, it's, we're all reacting to stimuli and sometimes it's good.

And Joe helps me because he's a very calm person. Hmm. You know, like when somebody says something just to take like three seconds, not to be like under defensive, not to be like right away, giving, having the answer. It's like, you know, sometimes it's good to say, well, thank you. Like, let me, let me think about it.

Let me pray about it. Like, or, you know, I, I don't have the answer. Like I'm, I really don't know. Um, and it's good to think, like, you know, to, to think about the answers to. Especially when it's important topics important, like, you know, regarding education or regarding your, your parenting or your, your marriage.

It's important to, to talk about in a calm way. It's just making sure that you understand that you speak in the same language, you know? No, I don't think anyone has ever made a good decision when they're running solely on emotion. Yeah, totally. I wanna change gears a little bit. What's the best marriage advice that, that you've been given?

Well, one of the things you always hear, and I think you, you might have reminded me of this, Joey, uh, you know, some older folks have said never go to bed angry at each other, or, you know, after a fight or something like that, that's obviously a time old, uh, uh, suggestion, but you know, on the, on the topic of communication, let me just say this, uh, there's a lot of distractions out.

and, and those distractions, aren't always healthy distractions. And I re I recall a time, you know, a few years ago, as, you know, cell phone technologies and apps and more dependency on this little device. And yeah, I get to a point where I'm having a conversation with Maria, but, you know, I'm partially somewhere else.

I'm looking down at a screen and I remember her just stopping and I looked and she's like, can you just put that down? And I realized, oh my gosh, I'm not giving my full time and heart and love to my wife. So, you know, you, we really gotta find a way to remove these distractions around us and look each other in the eyes and have a nice conversation.

And, you know, a natural short embrace. I will say this the best thing we can give to our, our, our kids. Um, if we're blessed with children, Or anybody around us for that matter in terms of sharing each other's marriage with us is the love we show for each other. Hmm. And if we can do that with each other and, and genuinely show the love that we have with each other, to those around us, whether those are children or others, that's the best gift we can give, uh, to our kids.

And that's the best gift we can give to any of our friends. The best thing I can do for the, for our kids is to love my wife as good and as best as I can. And they will be happy. And I'll give you an example. I mean, just a few months ago, I remember grabbing my lovely wife in a gentle fashion, or maybe not so gentle and we started dancing or something.

And I, I gave her a nice, you know, not a crazy kiss, but just a nice kiss in front of the kids. And I looked down at, uh, our second youngest. And she just looked up beaming at me with the biggest smile in the whole world. Yeah. And, um, and that's something that I know means the world to kids. Okay. And I certainly keep in mind your list, the, your listeners, uh, because that's maybe something that was not as, uh, uh, uh, prevalent.

Okay. And some of those households, but that's something that they can have and cherish and their, and find in their own lives. And, uh, especially with the experience, I'm sure a lot of your listeners have endured. Um, they have so much to offer in terms of finding and discovering and just living that, uh, life and that piece for me, it started as a young boy when I saw a lot of tur.

and I wanted to do what I can to change that turmoil, but all I can really do it was within myself. And I think that was something we touched on earlier. So I know I said a few things as far as advice, but, uh, in order for me to love her more and thus others, I, I need to ask for that. That's a gift. I need to ask more for that gift from God, and God will give it to you.

Increase my capacity to love, increase my capacity, to be the best husband. I can be the best father I can be. And let me tell you, get ready because it happens. Those prayers are answered ask, and you shall receive knock and the door will be open seeking. You shall find, uh, we have to ask for that. Our gift of free will is so valuable.

It just doesn't fall out of a sky. So we have to use the gifts God's given us the free will we have and simply ask. and then trust and know that the answer will come and, and that peace and love will be there. So yeah. Now, um, I wanted to, and also, you know, a few things, the first thing is just to realize if you're not married yet.

Uh, my, my mom and dad would always say, you know, when you are serious about dating somebody, make sure that number one, you bring them home so that we can get to know them because you might be so in love, you don't see like, oh my goodness, like this person is very, this very, that, like, this is person that's not good for you.

And that we can like, you know, guide, but also at the same time, look how they treat their family because not really special, you're the girlfriend. But eventually if you end up getting married, you become family and you better like the way he treats his family, because that's the way he's gonna treat you, you know?

Yeah. So that's one advice for people that are not married yet, uh, for people that are married, it's important to. That God calls us to heaven through our SP our spouses, not despite our husband or around our husband, it's with our spouses. And so it's, it's a path that we walk together and then a practical advice.

You know, we had a long distance relationship for about two and a half years, and I was at a time studying law in business administration. And I realized, you know, the only time quote unquote that I would spend with Joe is either through letters or foreign conversations or through emails. And so, um, I told, you know, I, I used to spend tons of time in the library and I had lots of friends and I told my friends that we're male.

I said, you know, we're not gonna do this. Like, I'm not going to hang out at the library and study, you know, unless, I mean, unless there's girls as a group, but I won't meet like a guy or two or whatever, and study or walk to the train station or go out for coffee, like on a break, something, because already there that's more special than the time that I get to spend with Joe.

And so it's really, really important. I mean, life gets really busy and it's really important to carve out time for selves. Like one thing that I still do to this day, you know, with a time difference, stay in Chicago, we had seven hours time difference. And sometimes I would forget to tell him something had happened or, and so I would have a list of things that I wanted to tell Joe, you know, and they weren't all like, you know, left or death matters.

There were many times were I silly things, but it's, isn't that what life is all about. Lots of little things, you know? Um, and in Spain you say a little card, you like the more. The more, you have like little encounters. That's what creates a big love, you know, mm-hmm . So to this day now, I, I still find myself using the same trick because many times, you know, we have all these children and sometimes I, I feel like I told Joe something and he's like, oh, you know, he's super surprised.

I'm thinking, oh my goodness, like, he's my best friend. And I didn't tell him. And maybe I talked to the, to the teachers about it, or maybe I talked to the, to the kids about it or to my mom. And so it's really important to keep each other on the number one, spot one, sorry. Number two, God. Number one. And use spouse number two.

And so not to take each other for granted to make sure that you carve out time to spend, you know, time with each other and you continue to have fun. I mean, life is really, really fun. Make sure you do some nice things together. Make sure you go for a walk, put the kids to bed and go for a walk or watch a movie together, or, you know, surprise spouse with, you know, a yummy.

Dessert. Well, I don't know. I mean, I love, I love cultural events. Like, you know, Joe has surprised me with, you know, going for a picnic and you know, the forest preserver, there is a concert, I mean little things like that. Didn't have to be spectacular, but it's just letting the other person know that you thinking of them, that you love them.

Just giving them a phone call in the middle of the day, just because why are you calling me just to say that I love you. You're the greatest guy in the world. And I, you know, I mean, and it's just little things like that, make sure you continue those. And they might sound like silly things, but silly things are not silly things they're not so silly.

And that's how the, you know, when, when somebody else does that, when somebody else, when you can fight into somebody else at work or at the gym about your marriage, or, you know, I'll tell you a silly little story, but we had been married for about, I don't know, maybe like 13, 14 months. And I went on a girl trip and, um, We like one of the ladies had a genius idea of going around the, the room and telling everybody, like everybody sharing what they dislike most about their husbands.

And I was appalled. I was like, what in the world? Like this is like, and keep in mind, I'm newly married. I'm like the, the young girl that just moved from Spain. So I'm like the awkward one but like, there's like, no way that number one at this point, there was nothing that I didn't like about my husband. Um, yet tell us, you know, maybe like a list of like one inch about this point, but no, um, very small print, one inch

but it's like when my, so everybody was just like sharing things and when my time came, I was the last one. I said, you. the one thing I don't like about my husband is that he's not stone rich. And in that way we could just spend every single moment together. Mm-hmm and they were like, ah, Maria, it's like, you know, honestly, it's not of your business, but I don't like about my husband.

Yeah. It's not going to make our marriage any stronger or any better. It's not gonna help you merge. So why do it? And I realized there's so much such of a need of a positive marriage. And so I got a sticker ever since. I mean, we've married 15 years. So ever since year one, I've had a sticker in my card, says, I love my husband.

You have no idea how many men have come up to me and said, wow, Your husband must be so happy that you love him so much. And there has been, there have been women, and this is, I think the sad part that said, oh, did your husband pull it out there? And I said, no, I put it on there. And when it cracks and falls out, I put another one and another one, you know, Joey, the only problem is, is when I drive the, the vehicle.

That's little confusing. That's when I get a few strange looks. So no. So I think it's, it's really important to watch your marriage with teeth and, uh, knives. Don't let anybody other than God in there. Um, I know people have great intentions and, um, great advice and solicit it or solicitate, don't do it.

Don't go down that road because you know, even if you could fight in your mom, whatever, you can forgive and forget, your mom will not forgive or forget that their little daughter was crying. This is not good. This is not healthy. It's not going to help strengthen your marriage. So in, in episode 26, we had a, a young, a woman on a, a bride.

She was newly married two years and she wrote this Facebook post. That basically was her frustration and her sadness really on how negative people are towards marriage and towards their spouses. Like you said, they maybe at work, they'll talk bad about their spouse, or they'll say bad things about marriage saying that, oh, it's nice.

You know, you like your husband now, but just wait it or, oh, this will never last things like that thinks that people actually say, and, uh, it was so discouraging to her. And so she wrote this post and it actually went viral. Anyone who's heard episode 26, you know it, uh, right now at this point it's had almost 90,000 shares.

Wow. And what it says to me, Is that, that resonates with people. People want that they want a beautiful version, a beautiful view of, of what love and marriage could and should look like. And, and that was what her post was all about. Like, why don't, why aren't we talking about what marriage could be, what it should be, how joyful it can be.

Instead of just always focusing on the difficulties, always focusing on the hard parts, the, you know, discomforts, the personality differences and all that. And like I said, it went viral. So I think a lot of people are, are hungry for that. I, I wanna go back to something you said, though, you said that you, after God, you two are the priority for each other and some marriages.

Don't say that though. Some marriages put the kids above the marriage. Why is it important to put the marriage before the kids? And why is that ultimately better for the kids too? Well, I'll just say, uh, first off that there's an order on how the kids come into the world and that starts with the marriage and, and the parents.

I mean, the thing that. When you get it mixed up, it's pretty easy for all of us to see how things get a little goofy and strange. I'm not gonna mention names, but I was at a recent, uh, friend's house. They have three wonderful kids and the kids are getting older and, uh, I've seen them do a wonderful job parenting these, these last several years.

And I've seen how much love and time and attention they put in their kids. Now, the kids are leaving the house and they look at each other like, who are you? And let me say, you know, maybe when you're in 24, 7 parenting mode and doing what you can and you know, one's running to soccer and one's running over there and no, even then.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I, I understand the kids to bed, put the kids to bed, lock their door so they cannot escape and just have time for each other. No, I get it. But my, my, and see how wonderfully she finishes my sentences. I was going say something very similar to that. Maria Love yours. Feisty Spaniard. I love it.

no, you get the point though. So that's where the, the, the, the children are fruits of that love mm-hmm . And if it's like little scene or the rest of our kids, seeing acts of affection between the parents. They need that. And that gives them a, a peace that gives them security and that, and that frankly develops self confidence and love within themselves.

If they see that reflected within their parents. And if they see it not there, that's when disorders creep and in, and doubts and fears and negativity and all of those things that frankly, all of us need to ask the Lord to take from us so we can live and carry that love. You cannot give your spouse something you don't have if you don't have that peace and that love within.

And, and we're, we're, we're blessed to know that comes from our Lord. If you don't have him within you, can't share him with your spouse, let alone your children let alone anyone you come, uh, in, in contact with in a given day. So thankfully we, we share that, that, that faith that's alive and strong. And real in our lives and that spirit, that kind of steers us away from all of the goofiness we all see in society and the world today, uh, where you're, where you can be a strong, bright light.

And, and that's the goal. I mean, we're not perfect, but that's something we strive for each day, uh, in trying to live our faith, uh, beyond Sundays. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, when you say, why is it important that, you know, the other person comes for the children? You know, I think it's, it's so important to realize that you are both complimentary, like the kids need both of you.

They need like the firmness and like the strength of the father and, you know, maybe like more the selfness or you know, of the, of the mom. Um, it's a good balance. And of course, like when, you know, you have a newborn and they're completely helpless, you just tend to like say, oh my goodness, like this person just needs me so much.

I mean, they would die without like literally die without me. And of course like is like, you know, he can help himself. Like he's, you know, um, but Jose Maria, he would say, you know, your, your spouse, your husband, actually, your husband has to be the youngest child in your heart. Meaning like the most, the one that needs you the most.

I mean, he's the one that needs you the most. Um, and you, you are a team, you know, and I think you're gonna be pretty lonely. Like Joe says, if you, if you don't keep up that friendship, I mean, just because you're married, we see we have this, you know, strange, uh, I mean, we all love happy ending like movies, but I think there's some kind of like strange distortion in Hollywood where, you know, people right up the sunset and says, there's a science, that's just married.

And it's like, oh, it's all over. Well, it's just the beginning. I mean, and if you don't keep growing, I mean, you have the grace to, to make it, you have the grace to be not just to make and be like exhausted, but to have fun and, and just love being married. uh, but, but you need to, to work at it. Just like, I mean, if you're running marathon, you know, you don't just show up and live marathon and try to win the first prize.

I mean, that's ridiculous, you know, I mean, it's like every day, day by day. And I think like, it's, you know, one thing that I, I tell people sometimes, you know, you go through ups and downs and sometimes you think like, you look at the wedding vows and I've prayed with the wedding vows before. Like, you know, like just remind yourself and you know, what you commit and in front of our Lord, just renew that, renew that, um, those vows, you know, unilaterally, like, you know, just thank God for the gift of Joe.

Um, and just realizing that some, so many times like people get, um, discouraged or, or anxious when they, when they read like for better, for worse all the days of my life, all the days of my life. It's like, who knows, like, is that like another 80 years? Like really? Am I stuck? You know what the truth is? I don't know if I'm gonna make it tomorrow.

I mean, that's the plain honest truth. Am I going? And I tell this to the kids because I don't ever want them to feel like fearful or guilty. I mean, if something ever happens to him, it's because God is like a gardener and he, he can see my whole life as if he was on top of a rooftop. And my whole life is like a parade and he wants me to go to heaven with him.

So he's going to look at the moment where I'm closest to heaven and he say, okay, this is the day I'm gonna take her with me so that she can come right away to heaven with me. And so if tonight is my time to go, it's gonna be either I swallow a cherry pit or I fall down the stairs or I have a heart attack, but today's the day.

And so, you know, no cherries tonight. but it's like, if you, if you think like that and say, you know what, I'm going to love this person for better, for worse. Like for today, And then tomorrow for today and for today. And it's like, you can do that. You can, I mean, just put yourself short term goals. Um, and you can do it and it's just gonna get better and better, you know, Joey, that's how she's able to, to carry her cross.

Ah, here comes a Marty I love it. No, man. There's so many good things that you said. I want to go back to something that, uh, you both alluded to and that is, uh, how important it is to model. Love for your children. And like you said, Joe, those of us listening who come from broken homes for it can be a difficult thing to talk about, but it's important to remember, like you said, even if that wasn't given to you, you can give that to your children.

And that's really beautiful. And that motivates me personally. It's like, that's how I get the resolution to this situation. My parents may never get back together and they probably won't, but I can give that to, to my children. I think there's so much beauty in that. And I don't think you, you two or anyone really knows the impact that modeling a beautiful love, faithful love in the good times and the bad times, how, how much that affects young people like your daughter looking up at you, dancing and kissing that is literally imprint.

In her soul, like on such a deep level that we can't even get to with words, it's, it's so beautiful. So I, that we can talk forever about that, but the model that we leave for our children, for the people around us too, if you don't have children, it, it makes all the difference. So I, I love that you said that I think that's something that everyone from a broken home, uh, can, can strive after.

And don't think if, you know, if you were never blessed having that, you do have that. I mean, look at the holy family, you know, so don't feel like, oh my goodness, like, I, I didn't have it. You can. I mean, and I, I like to go to St. Joseph, because can you imagine that hustled and, you know, Nara, like, you know, hear the sun is God, our ladies in necklace.

And so every time something went wrong in that household, I mean, it's like the only option Joseph, you know, so I like to go, but imagine like the beautiful marriage, they, they would have like the beautiful example. So I think it's important to maybe you didn't have that physical experience, but. You can draw from, from that's personal, uh, experience.

And I'm sure that people know, you know, whether it's a neighbor, whether it's like aunt uncles or friends, um, and, and you might be even having a stronger desire to make things work, to make things beautiful. And, um, honestly we all want to be happy and that's how, how you're going to be happy by loving other person.

By putting yourself down so that the other person treads slightly, you know, that's beautiful. Yeah. That's one of the things we recommend to people who come from broken homes is surround yourself with people who have healthy, beautiful marriages, and that, that will leave an imprint on you. Uh, and perhaps even override the example that maybe you saw, you know, in your home.

So that's great advice. I love that. And, uh, that's why I brought you two on the show. So I know people can see you right now, but, uh, but man, if, if you knew them the way I knew them, you would know that they just have such a beautiful love. I wanna keep moving. The next question I have for you guys is, but what do you think that the most important ingredients are to build a great marriage?

And I realize we touched on some of those, but, uh, but what, what would you say are the most important ingredients to building love that lasts? Well, I think like the first thing, uh, obviously is, is having a strong faith life, you know, realizing that the other person is a gift to you. We always be thankful for the other person to take each other for granted.

um, but then it's, I think it's also very important to keep forming yourself. And when I say forming, not just any, I mean, sometimes we're so minded, we just form ourselves in our professional, uh, real, but it's important to grow also in a, you know, in a human, in a human kind of way or a spiritual, so that you do have things to talk about that you do have conversations that you can grow together.

You can find, I mean, you can have fun together. And I think, um, that's like really a glue between faith and fun. Um, you know, I have, I have a, I'm very blessed. I have a husband who is always happy and cheerful. I know that, you know, like you, like you said, People only have get a little glimpse of him here on this podcast, but he's always happy and cheerful.

And I tell people, it's not just when he's with you. Like, that's how he is. Like 24 7. Like he wakes up and he wakes up the kids singing and it's like 6:00 AM and yes, he's singing. what's wrong with you now. I'm just kidding. That's beautiful. Sometimes I like, I'm like laying in bed. I thinking like, what did he put his coffee?

Like, I know that, you know, but it's like, I mean, the combination of like faith and fun and just not being, not being afraid of saying, sorry, nobody expects you. To be perfect. Um, and I've, you know, Joe has heard me say this probably too many times, but I think in this country, we, there is many wonderful, wonderful things, but one thing that's very dangerous is the pollution of purism and perfectionism like we're so like it's so hammered into our hearts.

And so you have to independent, you have to be strong, you have to be, you know, work hard, get it done. That we, we are afraid of having strong friendships where we show ourselves vulnerable. You know, I married tough Joe and that, you know what, joking 20% would be tough, Joe. And you know, I'm certainly not TA Maria.

Like I break down 20,000 times a day and it's important to be vulnerable with each other. And. You know, and Joe reads me so well like this, you know, this afternoon, he's like, you know, thought what's in your heart. I'm just like, and there was nothing in my heart. I was just like, at least exhausted, exhausted.

I'm just like, it's empty. I can't even think. And I know that's like a man thing to say, but I'm like, I really nothing bugs. Like I just can't even think. Right. So that's okay. We'll let you feel that way sometimes. Yeah. but I think it's like so important to also develop strong friendships with other couples that can help you.

Um, that also have, you know, it's, it's great to do a positive and to reach out to people like the pop says and the hemisphere, but it's also really, or even more importantly, to surround yourself with good, strong, like marriages that you do have that confidence of going out for a walk or whatever, and say, you know what, I'm struggling with this.

Can you please pray for us? And. I don't know how to, and they're going to be able to help you and thinking of my mom and dad, for example, they, um, a friend couple came up to them and their husband, um, and well, their husband and wife both came to them and through a personal friendship of him. And that's why it saw poisonous to have for me guy friends, or for him like lady friends, because in the end, it's just gonna turn into something you don't want.

So it's just better to avoid it. I'm sorry. It's gonna sound really archaic, but that's how things are. Um, and so that's what happened to this couple. They, he started development this friendship with this woman, instead of sharing things with her, you know, thinking it's, I mean, it's, it's for innocent and your stories or feelings.

He had this, that, and it turned to something more than what he intended to. And so this couple went to my mom and dad and they couldn't confided in them and they weren't afraid of showing their vulner vulnerability and to say, you know, we're struggling and we're really. The brink of divorce and, you know, can you please help us?

And so they met for like six months. I mean, EV like almost every day, my mom and dad like, was a big sacrifice for them obviously, but they believe it emerged so much. And I think it's really important that we do have those strong friendships. You don't have to have like 5,000 Facebook friends or even 5,000, like girlfriends.

If you have one or two, like really great friends that you can be yourself, that you can have a good cry, a good laugh that you can just be ridiculous. And it's fine. That's great. You're so blessed that that capital is going to help you say strong in your marriage and, and amen. And, and I'll just add going back to the same, sorry thing, listen for men.

I think a lot of times, you know, what gets in the way is pride, original sin, right? Where we, you know, we just want to be right. Or we want to, you know, just hang strong with what we thought. And then if we take a deep breath or take a walk or a chill pill, whatever it might be, we realize, you know what, I probably was a little bit too harsh or too strong.

Maybe I really was. Right. But the manner in which I dealt with it was not appropriate or frankly kind or charitable. Um, and in that case, absolutely. I'm sorry, you know, forgive me, honey. And why is that important? Number one, it brings greater love between each of you. Uh, there's something very humble about that.

And there's actually something, you know, that happens in reverse of pride and that's, you know, real power, real strength, and you, you gain something that you didn't have before. When you're trying to err, you know, tough guy, you know, uh, that doesn't build, that's not a building, uh, um, you know, that's not a foundation.

Okay. So anyway, not only does the love grow, but, but also the strength and, and the power of that relationship grows, but then you're also, uh, showing something to your kids. I mean, I can't tell you, we have a five year old sleeping upstairs and you know, it's such a beautiful thing to hear her say, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. Like she'll, she's just, she just so openly just says, she's sorry. And I know that if she didn't see that from her siblings or from her mom and dad, she wouldn't have that spirit of recognizing that, you know, I shouldn't have done that, or I shouldn't have done this, or I shouldn't have been so rough here.

So that's really a special thing. Uh, and if we don't lead with, with those apologies, then our kids, aren't going to either. Peter creeps. Uh, he's at philosopher at Boston college. You probably know of, he, uh, he says that we need to have, uh, a hard head and a soft heart. And he said, and he says, what, what happens?

And what, what we have today is the opposite. We have hard hearts and soft heads. So I love that it's so important too, for kids to see modeled again for them, what it looks like to resolve bad situations, to resolve conflict. For so many of us who come from broken homes, what we experienced was a fight, a disagreement that maybe got loud and, you know, perhaps even escalated more than that.

And then usually one spouse or both would just go their separate ways and we never saw the resolution. So one thing, one of my professors said is, so I. For you to show your kids, the, the resolution, the, the ending, how, how you, you know, made up at the end of it, even if there was some sort of disagreement.

So, so I love that. And going back to Maria, what you said about American culture, you know, there's a lot of beautiful and good things about American culture, but there are some bad things. And, uh, one thing that I've experienced you as you guys know, my grandparents came over to the United States from Italy on my dad's side, and I've had the opportunity been blessed to be able to go back to Italy and spend time there and I've develop friendships and, you know, know families over there and people.

And, uh, I love their culture on so many levels, especially the parts that haven't been Americanized. Uh, and it, I, I honestly, the happiest I've ever been, I think, is over there where I'm not worried about being productive. I'm not worried about being perfect. I'm not worried about getting things done and moving at a million miles an hour.

It's just, I'm enjoying life. And then I'm living life barely to the fullest. And so it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And, you know, I know. Europe has changed a lot, you know, over the, the years. But, uh, but I think that the beauty of that culture of just spending time with each other, just enjoying life is something that in many places we we've lost, which is sad.

Can I go back? I totally agree. And I think that's so important that, you know, you don't have a, you don't have a resolution or like, um, okay, let's go sit down for 20 minutes and let's come up with like family mission. No, I mean, just, just be together and, you know, play board games, just come up with, you know, fun things to do together.

Uh, but one thing I wanted to say also, you know, and it was, I thought it was a nice compliment from the kids. You know, I was asked to be a part of a marriage seminar the other week and they, you know, one of the, it was 40 young men that were at this seminar and, you know, somebody talk, you know, somebody asked like, well, what is it worth fighting over.

And I say, well, honestly, there's not a list. Like you can fight over this and not over that. I think like, whatever hurts you, you should bring, bring up just because it's like a wound that is like, you know, gets infected and it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And then it's like, you have like, loves worse for, and it's like, I can't believe there's hours.

And it's just like, oh my gosh, what just happened? you really it's left hours. Yeah. It's hours. But it's like, there's this like, you know, like the underlying, like 35 things that have been frustrating there for like three months. And so I think it's, you know, and it's not like, well, you left at toothpaste cap open.

I mean, you know what, I'm sorry. Tough enough. A little bit. Don't let that stuff bother you because it's so tiny. I mean, just screw it back on it's okay. But what honestly, like hurts you, like, just bring it up. Don't be afraid of like, you know, and then more importantly. If you do have children, it's really important that you do not fight in front of the kids if possible.

And it was really, you know, when I was sharing with the kids a little bit about this spare seminar, our oldest asked, asked me, she's like, you know, have you and daddy ever like been in this agreement? And my eyes popped out my sock. I'm like, ah, yeah. but it was just a beautiful, like, you know, San Maria, who is a saying that we love a lot.

He would, he would, that was one of his advice that, you know, if you can, you know, try to, to not fight in front of the kids, then, you know, sometimes it's inevitable that something will happen in front of the kids, but just somebody like whoever has a coolest has, can just say, let's talk about it later. Not in front of the kids or, you know, and just, or, you know, hold the other person's hand, like a little bit stronger, like, okay.

Not, not right now. And I think it really helps because number one, you're, you're cooler headed. You have a, you know, like, you know, where you want to get. I mean, you know, you know, and you get, can get, get the whole story. Um, and it's good for the kids. I mean, I think like so many times, like you're saying they might see the scary part and it's always, the kids never have the full story.

And so ignorance just breeds a lot of fear. And so the kids might only know a little bit of the story or, or, you know, not see the, the resolution and that just brings anxiety and, and just, you know, they just project. And so I think it's really important to try to foster that. Self-control if, if I, you know, if I can use a word in your relationship, like.

Such a great conversation, a few takeaways, one it's possible guys love and marriage can last. They can be beautiful. They can be happy. It doesn't mean you're not gonna suffer. It doesn't mean there's not gonna be sacrifices and problems that come up over the years. But Joe and Maria really prove that love can be beautiful.

Love can last over the years. And, and in this interview too, some of the things that I've noticed from them, they're so respectful and they even have this sort of Revere. For each other. They're obviously humble people. You heard that throughout the interview of them talking about areas where they can improve or things they did wrong.

And if it wasn't clear, they're just so joyful. They're such happy people. And like I mentioned, at the start of the show, a lot of that comes from their faith. They would say their relationship with God, but it's not all smiles, right. They've suffered, especially in losing their child, which we'll talk about more in part two, but they they've really suffered well, I, I watched them suffer well and handled that well and even get closer to each other through it all, even though it was difficult.

So there's just a lot that we can learn from them. And those were some of my takeaways. And my question to you is what resonated with you the most from this? I. I encourage you to talk to someone about those things, especially your significant other, and if you don't have anyone to discuss it with, that's fine.

Maybe just write a little bit about your takeaways. Take 10 or 15 minutes before you go to bed tonight or tomorrow to just write about the things that really stuck out to you. Like I mentioned, at the beginning, we're doing it in a virtual event with the culture project called the restore culture, virtual workshops.

It's a free event. It's September 25th through 27th. And if you're like me, you're kind of tired of all these virtual conferences. I totally get it, but this one's good. It's different. Not gonna wanna miss out on it. They're doing a hundred plus mini workshops. Ted style talks, especially for parents, for educators, pastors, mentors, but also for single people, married people, anyone who's really looking for community and answers on tough topics like dating marriage, divorce, parenting.

College sex, pornography, healing, social issues, bunch of different topics. And there's 70 plus speakers. Some who are really well known like Christopher West, Jason Everett. Who's been on the show. Chris Salina, Everett, Sarah Swafford. Who's been on the show, Dr. Julia Sadusky, who's been on the show. And a lot of the talks are actually in Spanish too, which is awesome.

I'm giving two talks. One talk is called what I wish someone told me when my parents divorce. I just talk about how divorce affects those of us who do come from broken homes based on the research, and then get into some practical tips for healing. Uh, the other talk is 10 tips to help someone whose parents are separated or divorce.

And I just explain how to help someone who comes from a broken home, especially if they're going through the divorce right now. And that's especially useful advice for anyone who loves or leads. People like us again, it's free. So if you wanna sign up, you can click on the link in the show notes and your podcast app, or you can go to restored ministry.com/two seven.

Again, that's restored ministry. Ministry is just singular.com/ 27. You can click on the link there for the restore culture, virtual workshops and full disclaimer. The event is free the weekend of September 25th or 27th. But after that weekend, if you want access to the talks, you can actually purchase their premium pass again, totally optional.

But if you do restore does get a commission from that purchase at no additional cost to you. So just wanna be completely transparent with you guys on that. Again, that's optional that premium pass. You can just sign up for free and watch those talks over the weekend. So go ahead and sign up. Love to see you.

again, this episode was part one of two with Joe and Maria Keller. Don't miss the next episode, which is part two. There's a lot more practical wisdom in that episode as well. The resources mentioned during the show notes ever stored ministry.com/two seven. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, go ahead and subscribe and share this podcast with someone you know, who could use it.

Always. Remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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#026: Viral Facebook Post: What if We Spoke Well of Marriage? | Sarah Jarrard

“What if we spoke well of marriage for the next generation?”

One day, Sarah got really discouraged and even fed up. Why? Because of people saying bad things about their spouses and bashing marriage itself. So she wrote her thoughts and feelings on a Facebook post. She was surprised even 20 people shared it.

But before she knew it, it went viral. In no time, it had over 40,000 shares.

Sarah Jarrard

“What if we spoke well of marriage for the next generation?”

One day, Sarah got really discouraged and frustrated. Why? Because of people saying bad things about their spouses and bashing marriage itself. So she wrote her thoughts and feelings on a Facebook post. She was surprised even 20 people shared it.

But before she knew it, it went viral. In no time, it had over 40,000 shares.

She was blown away. Soon, the post reached over 80,000 shares, more than 30,000 likes, and over 7,000 comments. Obviously, it struck a chord.

In this episode, you’ll hear Sarah and Joey discuss the viral post, why there’s so much negativity around marriage, and what we can do instead - despite the overwhelming popularity of divorce. Sarah also responds to those of us who say, “with so many marriages ending in divorce, it simply isn’t worth the effort.”

Sarah’s Viral Facebook Post

The numbers shown below may not be accurate. Click below to see the post on Facebook.

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

What if we spoke well of marriage for the next generat? My guest today wrote that line actually in a, a Facebook post that went viral one day, Sarah got pretty frustrated and discouraged by people talking bad about their spouses and really bashing marriage itself. And so she wrote her thoughts and her feelings on a Facebook post.

And she was surprised that even 20 people shared that post, but before she knew it, the post actually went. In no time at all, it had 40,000 shares. She was blown away soon. The post actually doubled and it reached 80,000 shares, more than 30,000 likes. And over 7,000 comments, obviously it, it struck a chord with a lot of people.

And so in this episode, I'm interviewing Sarah and you're gonna hear her actually read the post that she wrote in case you hadn't seen it. Save you guys a little bit of time, and then we're gonna dive in and talk about some of the points she made in the post and give her a chance to elaborate on them.

We talk about why she wrote it in the first, but she'll, she'll elaborate on that. Ask her the question. Why do you think there's so much negativity toward marriage today? And she even admits that there are a ton of broken marriages and horrible relationships. She knows this from personal experience, but she really challenges everyone to focus on and run after what marriage could be.

And should be. We even discussed her parents' role in helping her believe that love and marriage can last. It's really beautiful because if you've been listening to the show, you know, that we're often talking about divorce and how our parents' marriage and the mistakes that happen there really form us and affect us.

And so it's really refreshing to hear someone from the other side say that their parents' marriage really bless them in so many ways. Sarah even responds to what some people say that marriage isn't even worth the effort because so many marriages just end in divorce, which I totally uh, understand that fear.

We ask the question. If there are good marriages out there, where are they? Why don't we hear about them more? And Sarah share some words of encouragement to those of you out there who are afraid of love, afraid of marriage because of the broken marriages that you've seen either in your own home, uh, or elsewhere.

And so lots of good stuff ahead.

Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 26 and we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. Research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce or separation are actually experienced in a romantic relationships.

Why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous ways. In our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on how to find and build authentic love.

My guess today is Sarah Gerard, Sarah and her husband, Caleb have been married for two years, and much of the relationship has actually been spent long distance since Caleb is in the military. So any military spouses out there who are listening, Sarah totally gets you. Sarah's a paramedic in the state of Georgia, where she also earned a paramedicine to you.

Soon learn. She's extremely passionate about the topics of marriage. Building love that lasts and fighting the negativity surrounding marriage in our world. And before we get into the conversation with Sarah, I want you guys to hear the Facebook post that she wrote in her own words. So here's Sarah reading it for us.

A normalized thing. Enjoy the honeymoon phase while it lasts. Oh, Jess, you wait. Oh, that'll change. Or it won't be like that for long or come talk to me in a, after a few more years. Or how cute you still like your husband? It's all a trap. It'll never last. What if instead we spoke well of marriage for the next generation.

What if instead of consistently talking about marriage as if it's supposed to be miserable, we talked of what it should be and what it can be. What if, instead of filling the minds of younger people or unmarried people with the idea that you'll grow to hate your spouse, you told them of the wonderful potential joys of marriage.

What if, instead of ridiculing, how newly married people feel about their spouse? You encouraged them. I've been married almost two years. That's not long at all in the grand scheme of things. No, my marriage is not perfect. Not even close, no, I'm not naive to the fact that things can easily get hard. I'm not lying to the failing marriages I've seen for stands.

No, I will never be able to foresee every bad thing that could happen in a marriage. To be honest, even with the amazing example of marriage, my parents gave me, I still heard what everyone else was saying. And I believed them. It's rare that I encounter someone older than me who does not respond to my positive words about my marriage with negativity.

Honestly, I've brought, been brought down by these words. I've been angry and frustrated. I've even found myself bracing for hardships in my marriage instead of actively loving it is amazing. What a positive example can do in the middle of a fallen world. It's amazing what effect a positive word can have on a young person, single or not.

Don't settle for mediocrity in a marriage. Find that person that is willing to fight what is normal in today's society. Find that person that will fight me, mediocrity with you. Look to Christ. Otherwise all of this is in vain. You cannot have a fruitful life or marriage without him. Marriage should be honored by all Hebrews 13, four, and clinging to what is good.

Romans 12, nine. and after she wrote that, and once it started going viral, she actually added a little bit of a portion to the post. And I just wanna read it for you right now. She said, I woke up this morning, quite honestly, stunned at the 47,000 shares on the post. I'm extremely thankful for the thousands of comments.

Not because it brings more light on me, but because those comments are testimonies of many beautiful marriages and relationships. Now let's take our comments off Facebook. Into the world, take those testimonies of your beautiful relationships and use them to speak encouragement to those coming after us.

Be bold enough to take a stand for your marriage. I have a lot to say on that subject, but I'll try to keep my Facebook running to minimum. So I'm really glad that Sarah joins us today because we're gonna give her a chance to, to elaborate on what she said in that post that struck a chord with so many people, again, over 80,000 people shared it, but that doesn't even account for the people that saw it and read it.

And as you could tell from the post, Sarah is a Christian. So you're gonna hear her talk about her beliefs about God and about faith. And as I always say, when guests come on the show and they share about, uh, their religion, they share about their deepest held beliefs. If you don't share those beliefs, you're totally so welcome here.

And even if you take those out of the episode, you're still gonna gain a lot from listening. And so if you can keep an open mind. Definitely keep listening to this episode. And I just wanted to say that we had some audio issues in this interview. And so I'm really sorry about that. Even with our, uh, nice equipment and the processes that we use to make sure the audio is topnotch.

We just still had some issues with this episode. So I'm really sorry about that. I appreciate your patience. We really strive to not only produce good content, but to make sure that the production quality is really good as well. And so again, thank you for your patience and I apologize for that. So here's my conversation with Sarah Gerard, Sarah, it's a pleasure to have you on the show.

Thanks so much for being here. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. I loved your post. Someone in ReSTORs online community. We have a private Facebook group, shared it in there and I read through it and I immediately thought, man, we need more of this in the world first off, but then also I wanted to, to get you on the podcast.

Really grateful your hair. And I'm just curious when you wrote it, did you have any idea that it would go viral? Like it did? Um, never, uh ever in a million years, I've never had anything. I write get, uh, much attention, much less, anything close to going viral. So it was a very big surprise to me. yeah. Tell, tell us about that.

Uh, it, you, you wrote it what, in, on an afternoon and then was it the next day that it went viral and tell us about that? Well, I think it's, I think it started getting, going viral the next day, but I didn't really pay too much attention. So I actually went back and forth about sharing it at all. A lot of times I feel like sharing something like that on social media is just like this drop in the ocean of opinions, you know?

And I, I've just not been a fan of that. I originally posted on Instagram and my mom. Asked me to share it on Facebook so she could share it. And I did a little later got like 20 or so shares and I was surprised, you know, just by the 20. And then the second or third day, I think I was like 47,000 or something like that.

Um, wow. And that's whenever I was kind of being flooded with like messages and comments and, um, it was, it was really crazy. I, I just, I never expected that. I mean, I don't really know what it's up to. I think it was like in the eighties, but I, yeah, it was very surprising to me. yeah, I'm looking at right now.

Actually I have it on my screen. Okay. 86,000 shares and there's over 7,000 comment. Oh, my goodness. great. So cool. But, um, aside from the, you know, novel too, but going viral, what, uh, what made you write this post in the first place? Yeah. Um, so I, this is something I've often thought about and I've probably ranted about multiple times to my husband or my mom or whoever else.

Um, yeah, that's close to me, but, uh, it was, it was after a day of leaving a conversation where I just felt really discouraged. I took to writing which I, which I do a lot. And I wrote a, you know, a few examples and comments or statements like I read of the Facebook post that's. I wrote that down and those are comments that I often get when I speak my thoughts on marriage, in a conversation, or if I'm simply just talking about my own marriage.

And I really feel like a lot of times I'm just, I'm being spoken down to like, almost like, you know, just, almost being made fun of in a way those are comments in response to me saying, even something like. Um, I support my husband and his decisions in the future. Like, what's he what he wants to do and whatnot.

And someone will say, oh, you say that now, but just wait, like just wait. You know, people will say, oh, you know how high the divorce rate is for people in the military. Right. And, uh, my husband's in the military. And so that's something I get a lot. So I had to say it's it's it was a conversation. Right. Uh, similar to that.

And after that, I just, I was so beaten down and that's what baby write it. yeah. I mean, I think marriage can be hard enough without the negativity. Mm-hmm . And so with the negativity, man, it's just made so much harder. Why, why do you think there is so much negativity toward marriage today? Um, I think that it could be for a couple reasons.

First of all, I mean, divorce is so common. And also because of the fallout from divorce, I mean, my parents aren't divorced and I still had so many doubts before I started dating my husband because I mean, a fallout from divorce reaches. I mean, I'm sure you've talked about this multiple times, but it, it reaches far more people than I think anyone really realizes when they do get a divorce.

I mean, it affects the children in the divorce, but what about the people who are getting divorced? What about their parents? What about their nieces and nephews and close friends? I mean, those relational ties that are cut, like it could be, it could be detrimental. It could be, you know, so hard. Yeah, no I've had people tell me, you know, their aunt or their uncle.

Got divorced and it really affected them. And so you're right. We, you know, typically focus on the, the children or the parents, but, uh, but you're right. It does, it has a huge effect. And I don't have the statistic before me right now, but I know that if someone that you're close to gets divorced, it's way more likely that you'll get divorced.

There's almost this contagious effect of divorce. And it doesn't mean you're, you know, destined to do that. If someone, you know, or are close with gets divorced, but, um, but it is pretty fascinating that it has this contagious effect. And so I agree. I think that's really at the source of why there's so much negativity, uh, toward Mary.

Were there any other reasons that, uh, that you can think of? I think part of it is. You know, when people start, you know, something happens in their marriage and then maybe they build up some bitterness and then they just, you know, talk about it with, you know, this person or this person, or I think that it can, it negativity, spreads like wildfire

Yeah. Um, and I think that people sometimes will just even like, kind of build off of each other and don't even realize they're saying it. Um, it's become such a common thing in my experience anyways. Yeah, no, absolutely. I can agree more. I mean, I think social media is just the epitome of that, of the negativity that just goes around and Twitter, especially man, that's like lethal to go on there, but, um, I, to delete that I could , I can't do that anymore.

It's just like the pit of humanity, sorry to all you, Twitter users listening, but, um, it's yeah, there, there is so much negativity. I remember one of, uh, one, couple that I know who just have a beautiful marriage. I admire them so much. I want my marriage to be like theirs. The wife, uh, was in this woman's group and, uh, they were talking about their husbands and the, one of the leaders in the group was saying, okay, let's go around.

And let's say something that annoys us about our husbands. And, uh, I'm not sure what the purpose for it was. I think it was some sort of a venting session. But, um, when it got to this woman, she just refused. She's like, no, I, this is not the right place to bring my frustrations, my problems with my husband.

You know, maybe I'll bring that to a mentor, but, but not in this group. And so she just refused, she stood up for her husband in that, which I think is beautiful. And I, I do think is a place for talking about problems in marriage, but always in a constructive way to try to solve them. Number two. Yes. Just kind of brute on it.

And I agree with you that there's almost like this false sense of friendship and bonding that comes through talking about negative things in life. Yeah. And, and I mean, I saw that you kind of see that all through life, whatever, you know, if someone's kind of venting to each other and it gets out of hand, like it just leads to more bitterness and negativity and it ends.

Kind of just tearing down. I, like you said, I do think that there's a place for that, for sure. I think that that's needed in, in certain avenues, but everyday conversations, you know, with your coworker where you're sitting around the table and just kind of saying what bugs you about your spouse and doing it all the time on a regular basis.

I mean, I just, I it's, I think it's become so common. Um, no one even bats an eye. I think it, it blows my mind. I am kind of out of the ordinary when I say something nice or about my spouse, or don't say something bad about him. yeah, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. There there's um, one business writer I follow, he said that the greatest way to kind of, uh, protect your marriage against an affair or anything like that, it's just to speak well of your spouse in the workplace.

And that even that alone is incredibly powerful and. On the, the gossip front. Yeah. Gossip is so toxic. I remember, uh, hearing another guy that I follow another leader. I follow saying that gossip is sharing anything with someone who can't do anything about it, essentially. So any, any sort of negativity was another person who can't help you solve it, uh, in a constructive way.

And for me, that, that hit me hard because I know it's so easy to, to gossip and just kind of talk about negative things about other people, uh, with someone who really has no effect on the situation. Right. Right. And, and I think oftentimes too, like if you think about it, have you talked to your spouse about that?

Have you, you know, Like, have you talked about it with them to try to figure things out before you're going around? You know what I mean? Um, yeah. Have you even talked to them about it and to try to resolve whatever issue or whatever's bothering you? I mean, even a pet peeve, like I just, I think that, that, yeah, there's definitely time and place.

Absolutely. I agree. Yeah, there really should be one of the first stops, if not the first stop to, to go to your spouse. So good. Uh, you touched on this already, but I'm just curious on a personal level. Uh, how has all that negativity affected you? Um, like I said earlier, um, the conversations leaving, leave me, questioning myself and my relationship and just leave me overall discouraged.

Uh, I have to. To remind myself what's true in my life and what's true in my marriage. And I do, I do think that a lot of times people kind of treat me okay. You're you're younger. You have no idea what the world could hold. And I think the best word would to use would be condescending. I, I feel like mm-hmm,

It could be condescending um, when I do have a PA positive outlook to share yeah. If that makes sense. No, that completely makes sense. And yeah. I'm sorry. That's been your experience. I, I certainly can relate on so many levels and yeah, it's, it's such a breath of fresh air to read a post like yours and to hear people speak well of their spouse to speak well of marriage, because it is like you said, a, a rare thing, uh, to, to anyone listening or anyone who's read the pose, who's kind of a skeptic and they maybe say, Sarah, you're just naive.

You're naive to believe that love can last. What's your response to them. I, I know your, your whole post is basically the response, but given you a chance to kind of speak into that a little bit more, what, what would you say, honestly, whenever it's, you know, a group of people talking and they kind of are snowballing on each other's negativity in a way it's honestly something that still stumps me on what to say, just back to them.

Mm-hmm , um, I'm, I'm working on how I want to this on deciding how I wanted to respond actually. Um, because I really, I really do wanna give respect to the people who have a lot more experience than me in any part of life. You know, marriage included while at the same time, standing up for my marriage and for what I believe in and what marriage can be.

And that's, that's a re part of the reason I have such a hard time responding to it because when I do respond, it usually ends. Being along the lines too. I'm sorry. You feel that way, but this is how I feel. That's, that's usually what I say. Mm-hmm um, to, to which many people responded away again, condescending, you know, it's so cute that you think that, that sort of thing mm-hmm, but so far I'm like, well that, you know, if that's how you feel, that's, that's fine.

But. I mean, but this is how I feel. And you can't tell me how to feel about my own marriage. yeah. So, but yeah, it's, it's still something that I'm working on deciding how I do wanna respond. And I think it also depends on that situation too, but yeah, no, that makes so much sense. And I wonder even going back to what we were saying before, if saying something like, you know, well, what have you tried to, to solve that problem or something more positive to say, Hey, you know, do you have a counselor or is there some mentor mm-hmm , you know, I don't know if that that's definitely not always the right response, uh, in every situation, but, uh, yeah, that, that just came to mind when you were saying that.

Right. Right. And, and I, that has been a response that I've given once or twice where it's like the situation, you know, it's more like a one on one type of thing, but yeah, if in a group it's kind of hard. Oh, absolutely. But, but one on one. Yeah. That's definitely something I, I like to suggest anyways. No, that's really good.

Yeah. That's when you're in a group, it's almost impossible to, to do things like that. But one thing people might be thinking right now listening is that we maybe making light of marriages that are really bad and suffering. And, uh, and I just wanna clarify to everyone, and I know, sir, you would agree with this.

We're we're not, we're not oblivious to the fact that there's some really bad marriages, just some really difficult situations that people are in. We we're focused on what marriage could be and should be. And we need more of that. Don't we mm-hmm yes, definitely. but yeah, I, I wanted to, I kind of wanted to say that too.

It, it's not trying to make light of any. Struggles or hardships or, I mean, it's, that's very real, there's very real hardships and marriage. And in, I mean, I, like I said, I'm kind of newly married. I'm it's two years tomorrow, so oh, wow. I, uh, so I I'm, I'm new to this still, but I do hold onto belief that it could be more than what the world kind of continually tells us.

Absolutely. Well happy anniversary to you and your husband. Yeah. Thank you. So instead of spreading the lie that love won't last, what do you wish people would do? What do you wish people would say? Well, there's, there's few things that I wish people. Would do or wouldn't do, um, very simply, but stop saying negative things about marriage period.

I think like, I think we were saying earlier, I think there's many outlets to seek help in a struggling marriage, but making discouraging remarks to others is not one of those places. Another thing I would say is encourage newlyweds. I think this mostly goes more mostly towards the couples that have been married like 10, 20, 30 to 50 years.

But I know from my own experience, that is an encouragement. And I just, I mean, it makes me so happy too to hear from those people. And usually when I do meet someone that say that they've been married for like 30, 50 years, like that's, I'm, I'm usually saying, okay, what can you tell me? Like yeah. What wisdom can you give me?

Cuz I would like to know but I think another thing I, I wish that people would do is realize. the beauty of marriage that's portrayed in scripture. I think that many people here, you mentioned God and marriage, and I think it's either like flavorless or not as exciting, or maybe think that God has nothing to do with marriage.

Mm-hmm , um, me personally, um, it's my belief that God has everything to do with marriage. And if you believe in the scripture, this, you see this in Ephesians five, where it's written, um, husbands love your wives. As Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. And marriage is actually a depiction of Christ love for his people.

And it's quite beautiful. It's a picture of the gospel and that passage and Ephesians five talks about, um, the husband loving nourishing and cherishing his wife just as Christ says for us. And also, I mean, pointing out the fact that the Bible has a whole book on romance song of Solomon is a beautiful book of.

Two people in love, share it two and about one another. And, uh, one verse that I find extremely beautiful is song of Solomon eight, six, and seven sent me as a seal upon your heart. As a seal upon your arm for love is strong. As death. Jealousy is fierce and as the grave it's flashes are flashes of fire at the very flame of the Lord.

Many waters cannot quench love. Neither can fudge drown it. If a man offered for love all the wealth of his house, he would be utterly despised. And I mean that entire book speaks of captivation and love and enjoying your spouse on every level. And I think that in a, in a lot of ways, People kind of just push that aside and say, okay, well I really don't want God or the Bible interfering on, you know, on my marriage, but, and that's, that's my take on it.

yeah, no, that's beautiful. I've heard it said that really all of scripture is just this whole love letter, uh, from God to us. And we are really in many ways like the spouse, you know, receiving his love and, uh, yeah, you're right. God really does have a lot to say when it comes to marriage and that, uh, that verse in Ephesians, some people have issue with, because it talks about the wife being, you know, submissive to the husband.

But, um, but like you pointed out it, you know, the word submissive or submission is literally means being under the mission of mm-hmm and in this case, like you explained, well, the mission of the husband is to lay down his life. Like Jesus laid down his life for all of us. Mm-hmm right. And that is a tall order and that's a beautiful thing.

And that's something I think, you know, if, if a husband were to love like that, what wife wouldn't want to get behind that. Right. It's it's not about putting down, you know, a woman it's not about degrading femininity anyway. It's really about building something so beautiful together. Yeah. And it's just, you know, specific in the way that he's cherishing and loving and nourishing her.

And she's like you said, almost like a building up and coming alongside of and building up him for, for that mission. if that makes sense. Absolutely. Absolutely. And when I asked my wife to, to marry me, uh, I, I used very specific words. I, I asked her, um, I don't remember everything. I said, cuz it was an intense moment, but um, I said something along the lines of like, will you be my life's companion?

and, and I love that phrase. Life's companion because we are, we, we walk through life side by side, you know, taking on the challenges that we could never see when we got engaged. We could never see when we got married that, well, we can't see right now, we're actually two and a half, uh, years in the marriage, so right there with you.

So, uh, so yeah, I'm a baby husband. We we're newly weeds in many ways, so that's awesome. Yeah. I love that thought of just like adventuring through life together and supporting each other, even when things get really, really hard. Yeah. Yeah. I always love to. Talking with people who've had successful marriages.

And, uh, when we go to weddings, I love the, the wedding dance, you know, where they get all the anniversary dance, where they get all the couples out there. Oh. And someone's out there for like six years, seven, many years. Like, I love that. How are you still dancing? yeah. Great. Yes. I love that. And, uh, another thing you said, I just wanna make sure we touch on this newly Wes.

Like we really have to help them. I know in so many places, people receive almost no marriage preparation or if they do it's brief when it's like, you know, right before the wedding. And it's really such a disservice because there's so much that we can offer. And from both a faith perspective, as well as just like a human, uh, perspective on, on how to build love that lasts.

Right. And, uh, I was reading some of the us census data from, uh, 2010, you know, most people probably aren't into that sort of thing, but I was, I was digging through some of the data and I was like, this is super interesting. They were talking about marriage. And they said the, the typical marriage that ends in divorce lasts about eight years.

And the couple will typically separate, uh, after seven years. So it's like a year separation then the divorce. And so the first thing that came to my mind is like, why aren't we pouring into these couples, especially before, but during and leading up to that time, hopefully forever. Yeah. But, um, but especially during that time, I mean, we literally have data that says, okay, this is when couples are most vulnerable.

Why aren't we doing more to help them? So I love that you brought that up and I think we can do a lot more. I agree. And there are a lot of good, uh, ministries and organizations that are trying to help couples who, who are struggling or just want a great marriage to begin with. Yeah. And, and I think that, I think that's great to do that before the marriage and kind of set that foundation like while you're engaged and everything, and even have whoever that may be, that's kind of helping you walk through that process before, um, marriage, um, whether it's like mentor, mentor, or, um, counselor or biblical counseling or whatever it may be.

Um, premarital counseling, I know is I'm I'm in favor but sometimes I know that those people will say. Okay. I'd like y'all to come back in six months or maybe even a few years. And I think that's great to kind of have a relationship with the people, those people, cuz they can see where you started and um, where you are in a few years even.

Um, but I think that's a great idea. If you have access to that. Absolutely. Yeah. We had a mentor couple when we were engaged and I wish we could have continued that when we got married, but they're just in such high demand right now that it's, it's hard to do. Mm-hmm but, um, but yeah, I couldn't agree more.

It's so good. We, my wife and I went to counseling. Everyone listening knows that we've, uh, talked about on the show, but, um, yeah, I remember saying in the counseling office and the counselor was kind of, kind of, uh, probing for problems, like big problems mm-hmm and, uh, when we kind of didn't have anything huge to talk about, uh, it was more like, Hey, we're having some conflict.

We wanna work on our communication. It was a little bit more preemptive and proactive mm-hmm um, yeah, his response was interesting. It was, he was a great counselor. I'm not putting him down by any means, but, uh, it was kind of like, well, I'm not seeing anything huge to work on and we're like, but, but we're trying to build like a really good foundation in a, in a great marriage.

And so it's sad that we kind of have this approach that unless there's problems that come up. Well, you know, we're not gonna focus on that. It's, you know, if we took that approach to our health or our vehicles, our cars would break down and our, we would be going, you know, getting a triple bypass surgery.

Yeah. exactly. That's a great way to put it. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about marriage. What's been your experience of marriage as much as you're comfortable sharing, uh, the good and the bad. Well, , um, I could talk about this all day. People that people that know me know, I could talk about my husband all day long it's it's, uh, probably annoying

Um, but as far as, as far as my own marriage, it's been one that I, I kind of consistently describe as this is gonna sound weird, but I describe it as an, an Oasis. I feel like completely and totally safe. I feel, um, so, so confident that I can trust him and truly seen and respected by him. I say that in reference the importance of that, not because I have been in a relationship that was probably the complete opposite and.

Whenever we started, me and my husband started dating. It was just a light bulb came on and it was, so it was just so important. Um, to me, I, I had a, I had been interested in my husband for a few years before he started dating. And I always, I always felt like he was a safe place, even when we weren't that good, a friends.

So, you know, it's not, it's not just like this physical thing. It's emotional, just this, this total trust that you don't get with. Um, just anyone. Um, so once we got married that has only deepened. I mean, we laugh, we poke fun of at each other and , um, and something that we're working on is okay. We wanna serve each other before we serve ourselves.

And that is. Something that's also deepened deepened our marriage. And as, as far as, um, bad, it's, , it's hard for me to say, uh, the bad that really came along with marriage. I'm not there right now. , that's beautiful. But, uh, I, like I said, I, that's not, not to say that I'm not unaware of what can happen of hard parts that can come my way, our way, but, and, and there were definitely a learning curves for us.

Most of our relationship. Has been long distance due to him being in the military. And yeah, soon after we started dating, we were long distance. And I think that while it had to be the hardest time in our relationship, it's, it's what made us so much stronger. And I was telling someone recently that this year we've probably spent the most time that we've ever spent together and it's been great but awesome.

Um, we definitely communicate differently and appreciate each other in ways that. Some people don't always get to experience since we did have that long distance. Yeah. And I misspoke there when I said bad, I meant to say challenges and that's okay. That that's something that, uh, you know, my wife, Bridget and I she's been on the show and we've talked about challenges that we've had in marriage.

And so I, uh, you know, people might be thinking, wait, I thought you're talking about, don't be negative. I'm asking that what, what I meant to say is like challenges and we'll share, we'll share challenges that we've had, but it's always something that, you know, we've talked about and worked on together.

Mm-hmm and we're open to being vulnerable so that other people can perhaps learn or being encouraged by that. And so that's what I was getting at. Yeah. To, uh, to anyone who might be confused by that. Yeah. And, and that's, and yeah, that's definitely something we're, we're now more, a lot more open about. And I mean, we have friends that are, you know, couples in the military and it's really nice to be able to kind of be like, yes, we've been through this.

Like, let's talk about it. Like, and something that we can kind of relate to it then. Kind of help each other out with, and other people that may be in a long distance type of relationship, but yeah. Yeah. I figured it was more like a challenge than bad words. yeah. Yeah. But I chose the wrong word in my bad it's okay.

Let, let's go there for a second about military and long distance. What would you say? Uh, yeah. What are some good things to know for maybe someone who's listening who's engaged or newly we, or, you know, dating someone who's in the military or, you know, traveling a lot. Um, what are some things that you guys typically talk about with, with other couples who kind of are embarking on that journey as well?

Uh, well, as far as specifically to the military, I always say use a pencil whenever you were putting stuff in your calendar, cuz things change a lot. Um, but I think that that's important in all, you know, long distance or relationships like that to learn, to be understanding. With changes as they come. And that is something that took me a very, very long time yeah.

To get used to, because it is nothing like a relationship where you get to see them even once a week. Like, even if you go see, you know, someone on the weekend, like it's just very, it's very, very different. So learn how, you know, work together on a way that, how you're gonna adjust to those changes and how you're gonna communicate differently.

Because I mean, it's such a difference communicating in person than communicating solely online or over video chat or like on the phone or anything like that. We, we had a, uh, I think a 12 hour time difference, so, wow. Whenever he. Whenever he was getting up, I was going to sleep and vice versa. So , it was, uh, and we're, we're pretty upfront with people and we, we tell them, Hey, like don't expect it not to be hard because it will be mm-hmm

But I think something that is important is. Communicating that, and not trying to just hide that and be like, I must be the only one that feels this way. I must be the only one in this relationship. That's having a hard time. So like, I don't, I think that a lot of times, especially in military circles, I know that people kind of try to hold it in and don't tell people they don't wanna, you know, bother anyone and that kind of thing.

And they kind of take that into their relationship too. They're like, oh, well I don't wanna bother him. And there is a point, okay. Yeah. You wanna make sure you're still encouraging him and, you know, let him know you are okay. Or her, but you wanna also make sure you're being honest with how you're feeling.

And it took me a long time to understand that as well. Yeah. And we had to say, you know, actual practical changes in our communication cuz there's, you know, one of us may do better at communicating in person than far apart. yeah. So it's, it's just a, it's a totally different ballgame. You really just have to work together to learn to adjust, but.

You can do it. there you go. No, I, I definitely believe that. And like I mentioned before, we were recording my wife and I did a year of long distance dating. And so definitely that's different than when you're married or engaged doing long distance. But, um, yeah, it is hard, but it can't be done. And there's people I know who, you know, are really not good at texting.

They're not good at getting on the phone, so it can be a challenge. But yeah, I, I think, uh, just the simple fact, like one point you made is like, you can change. Like it's not, you're not like this, you know, stationary, fixed person. Like you can actually adapt and change. And so I think that's beautiful and taking that mindset to marriage in general, I think it's so important that you can improve.

Like you're not gonna be the same person that you are today. In fact, you don't really wanna be, you marriage really can be, uh, a tool to help you become the best version of yourself. And that's really one of the purposes of marriage, right. Is to become the, the best version of yourself. So that's beautiful.

Yeah. And I think that a lot of times people go into it and they're. Oh, well, I can't change anything. I'm like, well, it's actually about compromising a lot. So, so it's not, oh, well I don't like that. So I don't wanna change who I am so sorry. It's there is a lot more compromise involved than I think. People really realize, or even, um, prepare others for that yeah, absolutely.

And it could be as simple as, you know, put down the toilet team yeah. Or, or it can be as serious as like, Hey, I really need you to, uh, talk to me more about what you're thinking and feeling. And I know my wife and I went through that cuz you know, coming from a broken home myself. Yeah. There was a lot of fear when it came to love and marriage and just intimacy in general, especially trust issues.

And so I've really had to, to work on that and be more conscious of it cuz I. You know, kind of pull away from people and kinda like you were saying, that could happen in the military with, uh, with spouses. I just kind of kept things to myself. So just being proactive about that and focusing on, okay, I need to be opening my mouth and sharing.

Yeah. Um, and, and so that's been some changes that those are some changes that we made that have really helped. And the post, you mentioned your parents' marriage. And, uh, and I think that's just beautiful that, you know, you had them to look to as a role model. Um, and I'm just curious, like, what would you say their marriage played?

Like what role did it play in helping you believe that love can actually last a couple things? I, I have very early memories of, um, my parents sitting down with me and my sisters, um, most nights of the week to re, to read together, pray together and learn together. Um, and I remember learning about marriage and love from an extremely young age.

Sometimes people think, oh, they don't need to learn about that till later. But I mean, I was, I was little and learning about marriage and they taught me and the rest of my siblings scripture. And what is said about marriage. And aside from teaching, they, they showed us what can come from a nurturing relationship and, and the beauty of what putting your spouse before yourself can do, um, and I was, I was lucky enough to be encouraged by my parents and my relationship, um, with my husband.

They know what a beautiful thing marriage could be. And the same for my husband's parents. I mean, I can honestly say both my parents and my husband's parents have some of the most beautiful marriages that I've seen. And, and that's something we've been really, really blessed with. That's amazing. And, uh, yeah, to anyone listening, who maybe having a hard time with that, because you don't come from a home, uh, like that, or maybe your boyfriend or girlfriend doesn't, uh, we totally get you and totally understand that.

But, uh, but to courage that you really can build a beautiful marriage, you can reverse that cycle of brokenness in your family tree. It is possible. I've seen it. Um, there's been people on this podcast who are doing it and have done it. And so, uh, and I hope bridge and I are somewhat of an example. It says all of you listening as well, because you're not doomed to repeat the mistakes that happen in your parents' marriage.

You really can write your own story. You can build, uh, a beautiful love, a beautiful marriage. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it. Yes, that's awesome. Yeah. And, and. Uh, that's part of the reason. I mean, I was hesitant to even share what I wrote in the first place, because sure. I didn't, I mean, I, I, a hundred percent have sympathy and empathy towards the people that people that struggle with that.

And even after listening to your podcast and stuff like that, I mean, It is definitely something that I completely realize I've been extremely blessed with. Um, and my husband as well. Yeah. And no, Sarah, it's so beautiful. And I'm so glad you shared the post to begin with, but also talk about your parents' marriage and your husband's parents' marriage, because that's what we need.

And that's really what we wanna do. That's. Kind of the whole mission of restored is we wanna reverse that cycle so that we can build strong marriages for our children, for our grandchildren. So they can look back and say exactly what you said. You know, I had this great example by my parents, by my grandparents, cuz there's man, there's enough brokenness in the world.

We really need to undo this. And I think that's the only way we're really gonna transform our culture into a culture where the human person just flourishes, like there's happiness, there's thriving. So, uh, no, thank you so much for talking about, we need more people saying that, those things. Yeah. That's awesome.

When it comes to, uh, advice on marriage, what what's some of the ad best advice that you've received and what else would you add from your experience? Uh, when it comes to building love, that lasts probably the best thing that I've heard. And I, and I probably referenced this earlier, but it isn't about you.

It, if you're in a relationship. Is about each of you quitting, the other person's needs before your own, it will transform you and your relationship. I mean, you'll find yourself in a serving, loving, fulfilled relationship. I believe. I mean, I, I quickly realized in my relationship with my husband, it's, it's similar to taking turns, not technically , but in a way it really is.

I mean, there, there are times when I'm gonna need more support and care and the same for him, we all go through, you know, difficult things in life. And if you have that relationship, that is not self-serving. I mean, it just, it makes a huge difference. Um, so it's not gonna always be 50, 50. I firmly believe that, but I think that if you have that mindset, okay, this actually isn't about me.

Like this is about. My spouse. This is about my husband. This is about my wife. How can I, how can I serve them? And I think that's probably the best. And a lot of times, like my human nature is like, oh, well, , I don't wanna accept that advice. I really don't like my human nature is okay. I want what's best for me.

How, how is that gonna help me? You know? And that's not to say you do something so that, you know, in a manipulative way, so that he'll give you something in return or anything, but I'm just, I think that that's something that is not said enough is it's not all about you. um, I think that's kind of, kind of a rare thing to hear, but it is, sounds likely that's pretty revolutionary.

I'm sorry. We might get kicked out Facebook for, I know but no, it's, it's so good. It's so true. And that just highlights the fact that you really need to be, you may need to look for a virtual person. Someone who has that capacity to be selfless, to sacrifice for you, who, you know, for you and all those really, really beautiful things that you mentioned.

And one thing I wanted to mention, I think a lot of people, when they hear, you know, serving your spouse, giving there's this fear that if I give, then I may just be left, empty, like I'm gonna give so much and then no, one's gonna give back to me. And that's certainly a possibility. And. especially in toxic relationships.

Mm-hmm, , you know, there's a codependency or something unhealthy like that. That can be the case, but it made me think of that book that I don't know if you've read the giving tree where, you know, essentially, uh, I, I, I don't remember the whole story. I was really young when I read it, but it's this story of, um, basically that the whole premise is that, that, you know, you give, give, give, and then at the end you can are empty, but in a really good, healthy, beautiful relationship, the more you give I've experienced, the more you receive.

And, and when, when you set that example and go outta your way to love your spouse, it actually makes them want to love you more. And that's what I've experienced in my own marriage. Like when I'm the most selfless. Maybe it's not right away, but I see Bridget like reciprocating that, and it's really, really beautiful.

So I, I think that fear that we may feel that well, if I, you know, just give, give, give, then I'm never gonna have anyone give to me. I think it's a false fear. I think really the more that you give the, the more you receive. And, and I definitely think that, I mean, I referenced earlier like a relationship that I had been in previously in a dating relationship.

And I, and I definitely think that there are toxic relationships in which there is all, you know, one, one it's, one sided. And I'm not saying that you should just be okay with that. yeah. By any means, um, or you're, you know, it's a hundred percent you and, um, I'm not, I'm not saying that at all. Um, yeah, but I think that whenever you are, whenever your marriage is, you know, flourishing.

Whenever, both of you are serving each other and maybe I should use a different word. Yeah. That's a good point. Like both of you are working to encourage, to build up, to love the other person, um, more than yourself, which I know is hard. , it's absolutely not popular either, but that's a does my take on it.

Yeah. And, and I think it's just a principal in life. Uh, I used to do retreats for high school kids, and I know there were always kids who would come on the retreats who really didn't wanna be there. And I kind of had a heart for them cuz I was in their shoes years ago. And so, uh, so I would tell them like, Hey, all of you, you know, who are are here, who don't want to be here.

I just wanna challenge you that like as much as you put into this retreat, that's as much as you'll get out of it. And like you said, that's not the purpose in a relationship where we, you know, just give in order to receive. But, um, but man, it, it does work that way and I've experienced that. And I know, uh, a lot of other married couples have, have as well.

I love this line from the post. You said I've even found myself bracing for hardships in my marriage instead of actively loving it's an excellent point. And it, it brought this to mind that there is this difference between being on the defense, right. Defensive bracing, for hardship, like you said, versus going on the offense actively loving.

Would you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah, for sure. What I was referring to is that, I mean, I have another one of those conversations that leaves me discouraged fear creeps, um, into my mind, just, and just an, an an example. I was literally thinking about how much I loved my husband and how happy I was with him.

And then, you know, the thought comes in, okay. When is the other shoe gonna drop? When, when is this gonna end? When is the M miserable part start mm-hmm and you know, all these people complain about their spouse to tell me how horrible it is. When is that supposed to happen? And. So it's I found in a couple ways, whenever I don't fight that whenever I don't actively fight that it can creep in and I can start to get defensive on stuff that, I mean, you know, I shouldn't even be defensive on, it's not, you know, he's not attacking me in any way.

I mean, it's like, I, I'm almost looking for something to go wrong instead. I could be using that time to think about, okay, Instead of that. How am I going to love him? How am I gonna love him more? In what ways can I better do that instead of focusing on, okay, well, what if this is gonna happen? What if this is gonna happen and just waiting and looking for something to go wrong?

I just, I think that wonderful things can happen when you you're leaning into, and my belief, I think that when you lean into God, trust him and you lean into and love your spouse. Those wonderful things can happen with that. Yeah. And, and those hardships that that will come mm-hmm, , it'll be so much easier to navigate if you're on the offense of as opposed to being defensive, like you said, it's a great destination.

What other practical things do you think that we can do to build up the marriages around us? Uh, instead of tearing them down? Well, as far as practical ways, I think that if you have children. Which I don't um, schedule time on your week, spend time with your spouse. I think I'll, I'll use my sister as an example.

Um, cuz she has, she has five children and many people would say, oh, we're just tired. Or we just don't have time. And I mean, my sister and her husband are our great example. They, they schedule a date night every night, every, every week that once a week, every week, whether it's ice cream and talking on the couch after kids go to sleep or, or while they're fighting to get some of the kids go to sleep or if that, or if that means, um, getting a babysitter for the night and going out, I mean, I think that it's important to do that and I think.

It's something that I feel like I have to say in the world we live in now is put away your technology. One of the best days my husband and I ever spent together was a day. We actually put our cell phones in a literal box and went to the mountains and we didn't have a TV to turn on. We had some of the most deep conversation to the most fun we'd had and forever just laughing and playing board games and something you don't really realize how much technology takes away from truly connecting with each other and use that time to really dig deep and converse on how you can love each other better ways that they'll feel served and loved.

And maybe even talk about things that you've kind of been putting off that are points of conflict. I mean, and I think. Technology can just, it's so easy for it to just become a distraction so that you don't have to kind of work on that. So good. And what would you say to the, the friends of people who, you know, maybe there's a marriage struggling or, um, yeah, just in general, wanting to, to build up their friends who are newlyweds, or maybe even mid married for years and the ideas and kind of some practical things that we could do to, to help those marriages, like, say that they do have children, um, offer to babysit mm-hmm, say, say what can offer, say, what can I, what can I do?

Because a lot of times you're, I mean, you're not gonna know what you can do. Yeah. Um, and, but that, I think that is one practical way of saying, okay, let me babysit for the night or maybe. Here's a gift card for, you know, if that's, if that's a point of worry, here's a way that you can give him a, like a night at a hotel, like yeah.

A trip somewhere. I mean, it could be, I think a number of things, but also something that that's just as simple as, um, taking, taking your friend out to coffee and, and encouraging her and praying with her and saying, how can, you know, how can I help you? How can I encourage you? And ways that makes the conversation kind of build up instead of okay, just vent to me on what's going on.

So this was a couple things that come to mind. Yeah, no, those are beautiful. And we, we had friends who have two kids now and, uh, yeah. Offering to babysit is like changes their life. It's really? Yeah. It's really, cuz babysitters can be really expensive. So if you can do that, um, yeah. And, and if you're, you know, if you're a dating couple, an engaged couple or newlyweds without kids, especially it's great training too.

so you, oh yeah, you do get something out of it, uh, as well. Well, Definitely there were thousands of comments, Sarah, like we mentioned on your post, what did you learn from those comments? Um, so I was encouraged and I was a little discouraged at the same time. um, I, I was encouraged on one hand, um, that so many people share their love stories and it was beautiful to see, and it was encouraging to see, but I, I also wondered, you know, why haven't I heard this in real life?

You know, why haven't I heard this in day to day conversations? Um Hmm. What if there's, you know, so many happy marriages and, and you know, it very well could be the circles that I am and work or whatever else that that could be the reason, but I, I wondered, you know, why haven't I heard this. in real life and it may, this may sound rude and I'm not trying to be rude at all.

Cause I'm saying this about myself too. It's easier to type out what you feel and not actually stand up for what you're for your marriage and spouse in conversation in person. So I honestly wondered why am I just now hearing this on a Facebook post? If that makes sense. I, I was, I was encouraged by knowing that, you know, I'm not alone in how I feel sometimes.

And I'm saw so many, especially younger people commenting. They felt the same way and honestly wondered, you know, if a marriage could ever truly be happy and that, that was kind of encouraging to see, okay, I'm not alone in how I feel about this. Cause many times I have felt that way. Yeah, me too. And I think it's an interesting point.

You bring up about those marriages. Yeah. Where are they? Mm-hmm I wonder if one thing is maybe they feel bad about talking about it. Cause since there are so many broken marriages and just ugly relationships, kinda like you alluded to before, that's one thing that comes to mind. Another thing I wonder if they think that, you know, because they know their marriage better than anyone else and they see the problems, the real problems that are in it.

Maybe they think that, oh, we're we don't have a great marriage when you look, you know, someone from the outside looking in is like, no, you have a beautiful marriage. Not perfect. No one has a perfect marriage. No, but I, I wonder if those are two reasons that contribute to people staying silent. Yeah, definitely.

I, I think that that could be it and I. I think I said this earlier, but I mean, I definitely know there are so many flaws in my own marriage and so many things that we wanna work on, but I do, I, I would like to see that that's something I would like to see is, you know, kind of, because in, in many ways, in multiple different conversations, it's so easy to sit behind, you know, computer your, your phone and, and say what you think.

But whatever, it comes time in, in face to face conversation, it's, it's like a whole different ball game kind of thing. but absolutely. That's what something I would like to see. And we're right there worth you. We do not have a perfect marriage, but we, we are striving. We're trying. So yeah, we, we were right there with you and I think I wish people would expect the challenges ahead of time.

And you alluded to this as well, but you know, if you look at Olympians, if you look at Navy seals, if you look at anyone who's accomplished anything great in their lives, anything that's, you know, really hard. It's always through trial. It's always through suffering. It's always through, um, pushing themselves and, and working hard at it.

It's you don't just wake up one day and, you know, become an gold medal Olympian. You don't wanna just wake up one day and become a Navy EV seal. Like this is something you have to really work hard at. And so if we want great marriages, we really should expect that, that we have to work hard for, for some reason I've noticed this, that we almost expect it to be easy and, and to be magical and to, um, kind of be effortless.

But the truth is in any married couple who has been married for a long time and has to be full marriage, uh, would attest to that too. And again, I'm not saying it's miserable, but there are real challenges and it takes hard work. Mm-hmm yeah, I agree. It's worth it. it's worth it. You, you ended the post by.

Be bold enough to take a stand for your marriage. What do you mean by that? So I think that I've, I've kind of spoken a little bit about this earlier, but sure. It's, it's easy to just go along with like the jokes and the comments you hear referencing marriages. It's something I'm obviously super, super passionate about.

So I found myself becoming more and more outspoken about it, but I, I speak up for my own marriage because it's, it's not this, not only promotes, you know, positive view of marriage, but I think it's. A way that I can respect my husband, even if he isn't there. When you get married, you should be saying, okay.

I, I believe in this person, I trust this person. I love this person. If, if someone is attacking, attacking the idea of, uh, relationships and marriage in, and you are married in a way that they're attacking your marriage too, when they're attacking the idea of marriage mm-hmm , um, they're. So whether they realize that or not, and I think that that's something they don't realize a lot.

Um, but I think. That starts at home by practicing, you know, love and respect for your partner, cultivating that trust. Like I trust that if something says something bad about me when I'm not there and my husband is he's gonna stand up for me. So why don't we do the same thing for our marriages? Yeah, no, that's beautiful.

And I think, yeah, like you said, there's a lot of practical things that we can do to, uh, to stand up for, for our marriage. Uh, some people will say that marriage is not worth the effort to begin with since so many marriages end in divorce. And, and we talked about this a lot, but I kinda wanna go underneath our conversation to the foundation of all this in the grand scheme of things.

Why do you think the world needs good marriages? I, I definitely agree with that. I think that our world desperately needs good marriages, and I'm sure you've spoken on this and can attest to this, um, even more than I can, but a, a good marriage cultivates and it lays the groundwork for that couple's children and their lives and future relationships, and even just friendships.

And I mean, I think. Like, like you said earlier, there's multiple studies on devastation effects that can have on children, but everyone else around those people that come from that home in which the parents are separated. And I think that whenever you're in a home and in a relationship that is nurturing and that is good and solid, that works through, you know, the hard, the hard parts.

I think that. that is just a great witness and great opportunity to just everyone around them, if that makes sense. And that will ultimately play out. And so, I mean, how everyone treats each other is my opinion. It, it starts at home. absolutely. Yeah. Home is a school of love and that's where it's like, we got our degree in love from, from home and in some cases it's really a bad training.

In other cases it's really beautiful and we wanna make it, so I couldn't agree. More everything you said. That's awesome. Mm-hmm that's awesome. And, uh, why is it so important? Would you say to, to take what we're saying in this conversation and not just keep it in a podcast episode, not just keep it on a Facebook post, but actually take it out into the world.

Well, why is that so important? Oh, I think, I think we have to kind of reintroduce the respect and sanctity of marriage. Um, I think that marriage. Today has lost. So a lot of respect because divorce is so common. And honestly, because of sin, I, I honestly believe that divorce is so common that I'd, I'd venture to say that people don't always have think of marriage as the end game, so to speak.

I think in the back of their mind, they kind of, they always have like this way out, whether or not they think that, um, right off the bat or they say that I think that that can be something that's in the back of their mind. So I think, I think that that's important to say, okay, this is end game this is the end game for me.

And, uh, I think that the more that we're practicing that, and we're, we're spreading that and kind of spreading this whole kind of message that it can be. Beautiful. And it can last, I don't know. I just, I think great things can come from that. Amen. Couldn't agree more. And just the last question here, sir.

What, what final encouragement would would you give to, uh, those listening who are maybe afraid of love, afraid of marriage, similar to, to you, like you said, and then me as well, uh, because they've seen marriages fail and, and they've seen divorce and maybe they've listened to the negativity a about marriage.

What, what encouragement do you give people like that? I, what I would wanna say is I, I encourage you to, to look at it as divorce is not a reflection of marriage. It's a reflection of the people who are in that relationship. Um, not necessarily of marriage itself. And it's, it is so easy to. Negative about it, especially if you've witnessed it by your own parents or, you know, by a close friend or your aunt or uncle or anybody around you.

It's so easy, but also realize that marriage really can be beautiful and amazing. And like I said earlier, trust God, be selfless, love hard and be bold in your love, but it, it can be beautiful and amazing. And yeah, Sarah, you're awesome. Thank you so much for being here. This has been great. And uh, I wanted to say thank you to you and your husband for your service to, to our country.

Yeah. We really have our freedom to, to thank to people like you. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Absolutely. And if anyone wants to connect with you, how can they connect with you? Uh, well, Mo mostly on either, um, Instagram or Facebook. I probably won't, uh, respond to friend requests on Facebook just due to privacy stuff, but you can definitely message me on Facebook.

Uh, Sarah Gerard, um, or my Instagram, um, is Sarah Gerard 12 and that's. That's kind of, if I do write anything that I, I usually put it out there, so yeah. You can keep up with me on Instagram or message me on Facebook or Instagram if you wanna chat. So, yeah. Awesome. And we'll throw those in the show notes for you guys, so you, uh, don't need to remember those, Sarah.

Thank you so much again. Awesome. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed that conversation with Sarah. It was honestly so refreshing even for me. And I don't really have much to add, but like Sarah said, let's not just keep this in a podcast episode, but let's go out into the world and build up the marriages around us.

And some of you listening really have never heard of restored. You have no idea about us. And so I just wanna tell you for a second about ReSTOR, uh, ReSTOR helps teenagers and young adults who come from broken families. And that really comes from a lot of pain in my own life. Growing up, I learned firsthand that when your parents separate or divorce, it hurts, it's painful.

It's traumatic. And I later found out that there's a lot of teens, most teens, in fact, and young adults feel lone. And, and they feel uncertain of how to deal with it all, how to deal with the brokenness in their life, especially the brokenness in their relationship. And so I started restore to give them the practical guidance and support that they need to, to heal and to grow so that they can feel whole again.

And not only do we serve the teenagers and young adults, but we also serve anyone who loves or leads them. We wanna help you guys help them. And so we obviously have this podcast, we also have a blog. We do speaking engagements for writing a book. We have a private online community and we're building a coaching network of counselors and spiritual directors that we trust that we recommend.

And so to, to see more about how restored helps. People teenagers and young adults who come from broken homes, you can go to restored ministry.com. Again, that's restored ministry ministries to singular.com. And if you scroll down to the bottom of the homepage, uh, you're gonna see a quick form where you can join our email list if you'd like, and if you do, you're gonna get a few things.

One, you're gonna get a free ebook that we wrote called five practical tips to cure loneliness. You'll get other exclusive content. When we come out with new podcast episodes, we'll email those to you. Uh, you'll get new blog articles that we write every other week, and you're gonna be entered into free random giveaways.

Like. Giveaways of books and other things and no spam, just solid content. We really don't email that much and you can always subscribe at any time. So we'd love for you to sign up. We'd love to serve you guys and to have you along for the ride. The resources mentioned during the show notes ever restored ministry.com/ 26.

Again, that's restored ministry.com/two six. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, go ahead and subscribe and share this podcast with someone, you know, who could really use it. And always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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#025: Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love | Dr. Edward Sri

It’s easy to feel discouraged or lost in searching for love. Perhaps you’ve even given up on love altogether, thinking it’s not possible for you. If that’s you - or you just want to know how to build real love and avoid divorce - listen to this episode.

Dr. Edward Sri

It’s easy to feel discouraged or lost in searching for love. Perhaps you’ve even given up on love altogether, thinking it’s not possible for you. If that’s you - or you just want to know how to build real love and avoid divorce - listen to this episode.

By listening, here’s what you’ll get:

  • Practical advice on finding and building authentic love - whether you’re single, dating, engaged, or married

  • The two ways that men and women are attracted to each other and where each can lead

  • Signs to watch out for to know if your love is authentic or a counterfeit

  • The answer to the question “What role do emotions play in love, especially in choosing a spouse?”

  • One of the most important ingredients to build authentic love in marriage

Plus, enter our random giveaway to win the book Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love! We’re giving away three. Details at the end of the episode.

Buy the Book

Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love: Practical Insights from John Paul II’s Love and Responsibility

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

If you've ever felt frustrated or lost in searching for love, or perhaps you've just given up on love altogether thinking it's just not possible for me, then you're gonna wanna listen to this episode. You're gonna walk away with some really practical advice on finding and building authentic love. And that's true.

Whether you're single dating, engaged, or even married, we get into friendship. We talk about why it's so important to build your friendship. Even if you're dating engaged or a married. We talk about the two ways that men and women are attracted to each other and where each of those can lead. We touched on some signs that you could watch out for to know if your love is authentic or maybe a counterfeit.

And we mentioned some pitfalls that can poison your love and ruin your relationship. If you're not careful, we get into emotions. We ask the question, what role do emotion play in love, especially when choosing a spouse. And we give one of the most important ingredients to build authentic love in your marriage.

And like I said, if you're feeling really discouraged when it comes to love and marriage, we have some advice and some encouragement for you. We're also doing another book giveaway. We're gonna give away three copies of the book that we discuss today. So make sure to listen to the end, to hear how to enter that random giveaway.

So if any of that sounds useful to you keep, listen.

Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and. From the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 25 and we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. The research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are experience in our romantic relationships.

Why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous. In our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on how to find and build authentic love.

Now, before I introduce my guests, I just wanna give a quick shout out to those of you. Who've left reviews for the show, especially on apple podcasts and just wanna single out Emily J Luke Emily said this ministry has helped me through a lot. We all feel alone yet. We desire to find a community that understands the pain of being children of divorce.

It doesn't define. Yet it is a part of our story. I cannot recommend this podcast enough, Emily, thank you so much for your review. You're really the reason why we do this. And so I'm so glad it makes me really happy to know that this ministry and this podcast in particular has been helpful for you. To everyone who, who hasn't left a review, I wanna invite you.

Would you leave us a review? And the reason why is it really helps us to know how we're doing in serving you, but also the more reviews we get on apple podcasts, the more people will reach. That's just how the algorithm works. And so if you could leave us a review, we'd really appreciate it. It's just three simple steps.

The first step is of course, opening the apple podcast app and then go into the ReSTOR podcast. Now, if you don't subscribe, just type in restored. Helping children of divorce. Again, it's restored helping children of divorce. Once you're on that page, scroll down to where it says ratings and reviews, and there's two ways to rate the show.

One you can tap to rate where you just click on the stars. And the second type is where you click write a review and the writing a review is. Super helpful for us. And we'd appreciate that in addition to clicking on those stars and it really doesn't need to be long guys. This can take 60 to 90 seconds.

And like I said, it would really help us, not only to know how we're doing and serving you, but also help us to reach more people. My guest today is Dr. Edward SRE. Dr. S is the husband of Beths who you may remember from episode three, Beth shared her story about how her parents' divorce has affected her and how she's found healing.

Dr. SRE is a theologian. He's an author and he is a well known speaker. And each year he actually speaks to tens of thousands of people from around the world. And he's written several bestselling books. I won't get into all of those. He's also a founding leader with Curtis Martin of focus. The fellowship of Catholic university students, where he currently serves as the vice president of formation.

Dr. SRE leads, pilgrimages to Rome and Israel each year. And is the host of the weekly podcasts, all things Catholic. He holds a doctorate from the Pontifical university of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome, and is an adjunct professor at the Augustin Institute in Denver. He lives with his wife, Beth and their eight children in Littleton, Colorado.

Now, I know we have a lot of listeners who aren't religious and as I've said before, I'm so happy. You're here. Dr. Three does talk about God and talk about faith because he is a Catholic Christian, but even without those parts in this show, you're still gonna get a lot out of it. So if you can keep an open mind, definitely keep listening.

Dr three and the conversation mentions two books written by Pope John Paul. The second, the first is the theology of the body, or as he says, T O B theology of the body is just a collection of meditations given by John Paul. The second in Rome about God's plan for human love, sexuality in our bodies, love and responsibility was kind of the prequel to that book.

And Dr. SRE will explain it more, but basically it's the philosophical foundation and it's a lot more practical than theology of the. So let's not wait any longer. Here's my conversation with Dr. SRE, Dr. S thank you so much for making the time to be with us today. Thanks for having me. I wanted to dive right in and ask you what inspired you to, to write this book in the first place?

Yeah, you know, I was, as many years ago, I was teaching at Benedict in college and, uh, I was asked to teach a class on theology of the body. And I remember getting, you know, getting ready for that class over the winter break. And I, I went back and I read. John Paul II's earlier work, um, that he wrote, uh, in the late 1950s called love and responsibility.

Cause I knew that was the background of Tobi. But man, when I got into reading love and responsibility, I, I remember being down in this little crypt chapel underneath the Abbey St. The AEY there on campus. And, and I would read about maybe. 10 to 12 pages an hour. It was like really slow going because partly because it was so it's so thick philosophically, but also I was just so moved deeply just of like the, the vision jump all the second was casting for what authentic love really is what it looks like.

In marriage, uh, and what it looks like, you know, in, in, in romantic relationships dating and all. And I remember just feeling just like, it was like an examination of conscious. I was looking at this is the standard of love. And I was looking at my own marriage and going, wow. I fall short in so many ways and it was challenging me and inspiring me.

Uh, and I also knew that the young people. That I was gonna be teaching the college students, that they were gonna really be moved. It, it really shed a lot of light on the drama that many young people face in, in, in falling in love, dating and disappointment and hurt and feeling used or whatever. And, uh, and I knew this would actually be so helpful for them.

So my theology of body class, I ended up spending half of the semester on love and responsibility cause the students were just eating it up. Uh, and, and then, um, And I kept, you know, I taught that class a couple times at Benedictine and I started teaching it for young adults and I wrote a series of articles about it, and I got so much feedback on this.

Uh, I eventually decided to put it into a book because I, I knew it would just help people in their dating relationships and, and those that are, are trying to build a strong foundation for their marriages. I love that. And it's been helpful for me and my wife. I just wanna say thank you for, for writing it.

And I know it's helped so many other young people as well, outta curiosity. How many have you sold and given. Oh, gee, I don't know. Uh, I will say this, uh, you know, most books, they sell really strong out of the gates for about a year or two, maybe three at the most. And then they, they all tend to kind of taper off.

And I see that in, in a lot of the books I've written, except this is one of those books that just is steady. You know, we're here over a decade later, you know, and it's like, Every year, they just keep selling. And I, I get emails from people all around the world. Who've told me, like, they've read this book.

It made a difference, whether it's in Ireland, Australia, Austria, or Dubai , you know, so, so many young adult groups, uh, especially have been using this for their young adult ministry. And it it's really transforming, uh, the way they think about dating. Uh, and, and it's not my ideas. It really is that, you know, I'm, I'm so grateful to have.

Learned from JP two. And I, I'm just glad to share what his wisdom with, with, with this next generation. Absolutely. One of the things you do though in the book is just make it so much more practical. I mean, I think John Paul II was practical in many ways, but as you've said, he was such a deep philosophical thinker that we really need someone to boil it down without watering it down.

That's exactly what you've done. Mm. Yeah. Well that that's, you know, I, I, I wanted to do that. He's he is a, a deep thinker, so it, it's not easy. This isn't a book you just pick. And read, you know, while you're sitting by the pool, sipping your, it , you know, you gotta, you really be paying attention and taking notes and, you know, really, you know, working with it.

And, but it, there is such so many gems in it. I wanted to make it accessible so that a high school kid could encounter this and, and it could change the way they think about friendship and relationships with the ultimate sex. So good. And what's your hope you alluded to this already, but what's your hope for each person who reads.

Yeah. I mean, I, I really do hope that they, they encounter this incredible wisdom from J P two. That is so counter-cultural in our day and age, uh, in terms of, we live in a world where, you know, people think about what is love, love is, you know, what, you know, this feeling I get from this other person, they make me feel good.

Uh, I get this rush of emotion. I get sexual pleasure from, from this person. It's really, uh, uh, uh, that's the world's view of love. That's what Hollywood love is. It's you know, you do something for me, , you know, mm-hmm, uh, And that it just doesn't work. And so many young people, they grow up with that. And you know, they're not trying to be bad people, but this is just the vision of love that they've had.

And then when they start getting into a dating relationship, they think it's all gonna be great at first, but as they get into it four months or a year later, They realize it's a dead end and it's because they didn't have the right vision for love. It's so important that, that we get what love really is.

And I don't know of a better book that, that really walks us through that and shows very clearly. These are the dangers. These are the ways we will fall into pitfalls or cul-de-sac and things that are gonna just lead. Disappointment, uh, hurt feeling used, you know, just, you know, dis you know, just kind of completely disillusioned about, will I ever be able to find authentic love?

Is there really such a thing this lasting love? I didn't see it in my parents. I, I don't see it around me and I maybe I've experimented with the hill hookup culture and I swipe left or right. And I, and that, that's what I think love is mm-hmm, , that's, that's the, that's the way so many people in our. Um, grew up today, you know, but yeah.

You know what, what's great about JP two's ideas is he is coming from a Catholic perspective of course, and he does make some illusions to certain Catholic thinkers of the Bible. But the book is really just, I think anybody can relate to it. You know, I mentioned young adult groups that have been using this, this book that, that I wrote men, women in the ministry of love.

I think about Manhattan, the, the man, the, the men, there was a young adult ministry. In New York city, that way back in 2000. Was using this, my book as, as their young adult ministry. And what they did was they would have, you know, a speaker gift talks about the different chapters of the book. And then they would, you know, they made photocopies of some quotes from the book and, and they would make like hundred photocopies and put 'em on a stand on the outside.

It was the middle of Soho with hundreds of young adults, kind of just walking up and down that street late at night. And people would stop and they'd hear and they'd they'd listen and go. What is, oh, they're talking about love and they'd hear what was being said. And they'd be so drawn in and then they'd have this little sheet that they could take home with quotes.

And, and they, they told me about all these conversions people who were Protestant, people that were Buddhist people that were atheists. Would come to a conversion about Chasity about, you know, living dating differently. And some of them even became Catholic, you know, so it was really kind of crazy. And, and so in terms of my hopes, it's like, that's the kind of thing I hope continues to happen, uh, that people can, can really encounter Christ more profoundly in his love through this book.

No, I love that. And I'm glad you mentioned that, that it's not just for people who come from a Catholic or a Christian worldview, it's really. Can speak to anyone because we do have a lot of people listening right now who are not religious. And so, like I always say, and, uh, you know, I touch on at the start of the show is it's for you two.

It's not just for people who come from religious backgrounds. So thank you for, for saying that. It's incredible about what happened in New York. I wanna dive into some of the different topics in the book. The first one is friendship. Why would you say is a strong friendship, so necessary to have a great marriage?

Why isn't it enough? Just to be romantic partners to be lovers. Why is a strong friendship necessary? Yeah, because that, that's what really sustains your relationship day in and day out. Right. You know, you can have a sexual encounter with anyone , you know, you, you can have, uh, romantic feelings toward anyone.

Right. But those, those feelings, those passions, they come and go, right. And, and so if, if you wanna have a lasting relationship, it's gotta be built on the foundation of friendship. Um, and, and our world doesn't even understand really what friendship is. Uh, so I have a. Chapter in the book where I unpack a traditional classical kind of understanding of friendship, it goes all the way back again, this is not Christian, but it goes back to just great thinkers, like Aristotle who talked about like, you know, there's, there's three kinds of friendship and it's important.

You understand these three kinds of friendship. Uh, we've all had experiences of people that we, we thought were our friends. Or we're not friends with them anymore. Maybe they let us down. Maybe they hurt us. Maybe they betrayed us in some dramatic way or maybe, you know, we're our interests change. And so we see each other, but it's kind of awkward now, what's going on there, you know?

And then there's other people in our lives that we know and we trust and, and we might be able to, to share more deeply, you know, in our modern world. That's sad is that the majority of people it's so sad, so many people. Really know what friendship is. Uh, there was a study done a while back, uh, that showed it's like one out of four people don't have a single close friend, like just a person that they can confide in, you know, share personal things with.

Wow. I mean, that's just, just that that's dramatic. Just go to the grocery store and just look around and just count 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1 outta four people. Are are really lonely in this world. And I think again, cuz we don't know what friendship is. So what I do in the chapter is I talk about, you know, how, uh, sometimes you have friends that like you, you, because it's what I song calls friendships of pleasure, enjoyment.

Like you enjoy the same music, you enjoy the same sport, you enjoy working out whatever it is. And, and that's what unites you together. It's like you're these shared experiences, but, and those are. But they're, but they're not gonna last the test of time. There's other friendships where it's based on some kind of utility.

Like I get something from you, you get something from me. So maybe those, our favorite coffee shop, you know, we go to our coffee shop and there's, there's somebody at the, the barista there is really nice. And, you know, I pay him money. He gives me my coffee and, and we have a, we, we chat about each other's day, but it's not like that's that, that that's the extent of our relationship though.

So, you know, we are we're, we might be. , but if he were to get a different job or I no longer drank coffee, we're probably not hanging out together anymore. You know, mm-hmm, , uh, similarly, if, if, uh, we don't, you know, maybe you and I let's say we're in college and we listen to the same band and now I changed my taste to music, or we played on the, the soccer team together, but I don't play soccer anymore.

If all that joined us was playing soccer or. Listening to the same band, or you worked at the bar where I got my favorite Guinness or whatever, you know, if that's all that really United us, it's never gonna last. And that's why so many friendships change, you know, especially in our, you know, coming of age years, you know, as we merge into adulthood, large friendships are often changing.

Cuz we move, we have different interests, you know, and, and it's very unstable for a lot of people. But what we really long for is people. I can trust people who really know me as I really am. They're committed to me for who I am, and that's what, that's what we want. Ultimately, in, in, in a friendship, you know, we've all had people that, you know, we know that anyone could say, I love you.

Some people might mean it, but there's only few people that really are, are, are committed to you for who you are. We sh listen to the same music and it's fun to listen to this music with you, not you happen to work at the place where I work. You know, it's actually, I'm committed to you for who you are.

That's what we long for. And that that's, that's kind of the, the, a foundational piece of, of any basic, authentic friendship, very all calls it, virtuous friendship. And it's the basis for what we need for. For moving forward in, in, in marriage. Beautiful. In the book you touched on attraction and you say that there's two main ways that men and women are attracted to each other.

What are they and where do each of them lead? Uh, this is my favorite part of JB two's teachings. Uh, cuz I think it's so, so insightful. I've never read anyone. It gets what's going on in attraction when boy meets girl and bam, there's that initial spark of attraction, you know, you're at a coffee house and you know, there's some young guy there at a coffee house, reading a book, sipping on his coffee and then a beautiful girl walks in with her friends and he's immediately drawn to her beauty.

Uh, he takes a sip, looks down, but they looks up and sees where she is. He reads the line from his book and he looks up again to see where she is now. He's just immediately drawn to this gorgeous woman, but it's not just a physical thing. You see, he's, he's noticed, let's say her warm personality. She's really charming.

She laughs a lot. She's got a great smile. She seems to be really friendly. So it's more than just physical. There. There's something else going on. These are the kinds of attraction that happen all the time between men and women and they get this happens spontaneously. You're at the checkout line and you see someone very handsome, very beautiful walk by bam.

There's an attraction. You, you could be, you know, just you, you, you. You're in a social setting and, and you meet someone that's very interesting and you, you have a great conversation with them and there's this connection. So there's, there's two kinds of attractions that are going on. Often on one hand, the one we often think about is physical attraction.

We're attracted to their good looks, you know, their, their beauty, their, their, their, their physical features, their body. So JBD says there's a physical attraction. He calls it sensuality, but then there's also kind of, uh, uh, an emotional attract. Where we get this rush of feelings. That's not just sexual.

This is something different. This is more of an attraction to the what, what JP two calls the psychological qualities of the other person. So we have physical attraction to the physical features, their body. But we all know that there's oftentimes there's something more than just the body that we can be attracted to.

You know, there's the, the personality we're attracted to their, to, to, to, you know, JB two describes it as the woman's femininity or the man's masculinity, the mystery of the opposite sex, um, and, and their personality and that's that, and that that's more of an emotional attraction. So we have this powerful.

Physical sensual attraction and these powerful, romantic feelings that accompany attraction. Um, and these are good. This is the great thing. JP two says, God made us this way. We're wired this way, but the, the, this attraction is meant to lead us ultimately to the person. Who possesses those qualities. And this is, this is the crucial point for what John Paul second was getting at here is that he's basically saying God, like, you know, God, endows us with these great physical features so that other people will notice us.

you know, mm-hmm , uh, but, but, but my good looks, you know, this person's blonde hair or brown hair, or these, this person's gorgeous legs, whatever it is, you know, mm-hmm, . The there's more to that person than their legs than their blonde hair than their physical features. There's more to the person than their body.

Um, no matter what ed Sherin says, , , you know, I'm in love with your body. You know, I'm in love with the shape of you there. We actually long to be. We want someone to love me, not just my body, you know, and, and now, now God gives us these, the. Good books and all this. Cause we noticed that, you know, but deep down, like I've been married 20 years and, and my wife's Beth is a beautiful woman.

she is just gorgeous, you know? Yeah. But yet I, I, as I fall in love with Beth evermore in 20 years, plus in marriage, it's also knowing her, her character, her virtue, her generosity. I was just saying to her the other night, just like a, we went to a wedding and all these old friends that she was visiting, they were so excited to see her.

And I just said, Beth's. People just love you. I mean, it's because you go out of your way, you love them and you care for them and you've made a difference in their, their, their lives. I love you, honey. That's awesome. Like that's at the essence of who Beth is, you know, and, and it not, not, she has great looks, but this is even, this is deeper and that's what we want to be.

Ultimately, that's what God wants us to be attached to the, the, the person, not just their physical appearance. So the physical appearance. Gets us to be noticed. The question is, will I allow that the physical attraction to lead me more to that person? The person that has the, that good look, the good looks mm-hmm uh, or will I focus just on the physical features and when I do that, but I basically do.

I end up just using them. I use them so I can have a, a sexual fantasy in my head, or I use them so I can have, you know, sexual pleasure with them, you know? Uh, I just want their body, I, I'm not really interested in them. And those, whenever we fall into that, we're, we're, we're far away from love. We are in lust, we're just in using this person, reducing them to an object, a body for my own imagination, my own fantasy, my own physical pleasure.

And I'm just exploiting the person for myself. That's that's, that's the opposite of love. Uh, so that's the key JPG says we're given good. But that it's meant to lead us to the person that has those good looks. We're given these great personalities and psychological qualities. They, they, and we had that emotional response so that it draws us ultimately to the person that has that, that, that personality.

That's beautiful. And so essentially you're saying the person though, they're not just a list of qualities. It does include their body. It's really those qualities that are left over when those good looks fade when you get older and so on. Is that right? Well, I think that's true. I, I think, I think, you know, like I would say like, my wife is still beautiful 20 years in the marriage there's and she's always gonna be beautiful.

Right. But our, all of our physical features are going to fade over time. Um, but, but it's more than that. I, so I think that what you said is right on Joey, that I, I would say it's what you could just say is more than it's. Right now, you know, or, you know, in our first year of marriage or when we're just dating, God wants me to see evermore beyond her good looks.

Hmm. But I mean that the good looks is just like a, something like a magnet to attract me toward her, but he wants me to, to notice and appreciate evermore. Her character, her virtue, who she is. Cause you know, that's her soul , you know? Yeah. Uh, that, that's the essence of who she is, you know, because even when you're not young, right, she, she could lose her good looks in a day in a car accident or something, you know?

Um, but that's not the, but she wouldn't lose who she is. And that's the type of love that we all long for. I think all of us, if we're honest with ourselves, we do want that. And speaking about love, I wanna talk about in the book you touch on the two aspects of love. Talk a little bit about that. And why is it so crucial to know the difference between those two aspects of love?

Yeah. You know, JB two talks about how, you know, sometimes when we, we think we're in love, like, you know, today, if you wanna measure, am I in love? What do you, what do you, how do you discern that? Well, I'm in love. If I have feelings mm-hmm I feel happy. I feel good. You know that again, but that's focused on what I get out of.

You. JP two basically says John Paul like says that, that that's, that's an immature love. That's not really love, uh, that, that that's just, you're having a psychological experience. You're reacting to the sexual value of the other person. You see their good luck and you have, you have a sexual attraction, like that's, that's not love.

you're just having a. Real love is forged over time. Uh, and it describes what really exists between two people. Uh, and at the essence of this is what John Paul, second calls, self giving, where I give myself fully as a gift to the Southern person. And here's the essence of it. Um, you know, the catechism describes what love is, uh, quoting the catechism Catholic church.

So. Teaching on what lava does love based on a great thinker from all you know, about 700 years ago, named Thomas Aquinas, who defined love love is to will the good of the other to will the good of the other to see what's best for someone else. That's what love is love. Isn't you make me feel so good.

That, that, what love is you? Give me pleasure. I have fun being with you. That's not love. I mean, that's just the reaction I have, you know, to some psychological experience I'm having with you. And I'm grateful that I have this, but I'm not really committed to you. Mm-hmm real love is to will to go to the other, to see what's best for the other person.

Uh, and so, and, and that oftentimes might mean sacrifice. It might mean denying myself. So in marriage, You know, real love isn't oh honey. I, I, I just love being with you and it's so fun. I'm being with you on date night. I mean, that's a moment of love, but real love is tested when you know, she's sick and she needs me to care for her, or she wants to do one thing.

I wanna do the other and you have to. Compromise and come together or a baby's crying at three in the morning and we gotta go take care of a baby. You know, you don't have a lot of powerful feelings in those moments. you you're setting aside your feelings to serve, to sacrifice, you know, the Christian tradition when we, you know, when we say what is love it's it's God, God is love.

First John chapter four, verse eight. And this God we believe became man in Jesus Christ and showed us what love is. All throughout Christ's life. He's constantly sacrificing, serving, laying down his life, his interest, his comfort, his pleasure to serve the good of others. And we see that most, especially on the cross.

When he dies on the cross for our sins, Jesus, doesn't get a lot on good Friday. It's not like he's on the cross saying, oh, this feels so good. Thank you, humanity. You make me feel so good. No real love can hurt sometimes. Uh, and, and at the heart of what marriage is going to be is being conformed to that kind of love a sacrificial love.

Uh, marriage is really a school of love. It's not like we think of marriage like, oh, it's so great. We're gonna be together all the time, but it is great. But it's also really hard. where you're being pushed constantly. Cause you bring in your selfishness, your spouse brings in their selfishness and, and that's just a recipe for a lot of friction, tension and daily, countless opportunities.

To set aside your own interest, your own preference, your own pleasure, your own comfort to serve the good of the other. But when I do that, I, I I'm actually, my heart is expanding. I'm I'm growing in love. I'm, uh, my life is so much better when, when I lay down my life and make it a gift for someone. So let's say someone's in a relationship right now and they're trying to figure out, okay, is this relationship built on authentic love or is it maybe a counterfeit?

Is there an easy way for them to figure that out? Yeah. If they go to my website, I sell a love thermometer, and you can just use it. And it tells you if it's real love or not. I'm just kidding. like, wow, this be cool though. Fantastic. This be cool. You just kinda swipe your forehead and go, oh, I'm in love.

This is genuine. That would be great. no. The, uh, you know, I, what John Paul second would say and, and, and others, uh, I, I think the key to discerning it is, um, I, I think it comes down to do I live virtuously for the sake of this other person? Or am I living to serve myself? Do I look at this other person in terms of what they do for me, they're gonna fulfill.

My deepest desires, they're gonna fulfill my emotional needs. They're gonna give me the sexual pleasure that I want. They're gonna say the right things and always be nice to me. That's a, that's like looking inward whenever I'm looking inward, what do I get out of the relationship? That's a sign of a very immature love.

A self-centered love. It's not a real love. Doesn't mean it's all bad. It just means your love is tainted by a lot of selfishness and, and, and God wants. To heal that in you, um, a sign that you're growing in this more authentic, genuine love is when. You know, you, you actually sacrifice what you want. , you know, that's what I remember a priest used to prepare couples for marriage that I know a priest.

I know his, he would sit the couple down on, on the first day of marriage preparation class and he'd say, okay, I know you think, you know what marriage is, but you don't. Here's what the definition of marriage really is. Marriage is never getting to do what you want.

somewhat, but, but there's truth to that, right? Yeah. You know, cause you are being called again constantly to, to, to just be so generous, to be so unselfish. And another friend of mine. I remember when he got married, I asked him, oh, what the, like being married, he'd been married three months. He said, and he just shook his head, looked down really, really.

Frustrated. I said, oh no, what's wrong. It goes, Ted. I never realized how selfish I was until I got married. Mm. And, and, and that's what marriage is doing. Marriage is helping you not be selfish. And what happens a lot of young people will enter into marriage and then it gets hard. There's conflict. There's tension.

There's hurt feelings. and then they're not getting a lot out of it. And so they start thinking, wow, maybe I married to one person, maybe this isn't the right thing. And it's that, that those questions are going on. That's a sign of a selfish love. It's about what I get out of it. It's actually right there in those, in those moments where things are hard, it's difficult.

And that, that Jesus is inviting us. I think , I think he's inviting us right there to, to, to grow in love, to deepen our love. Because our love is really a commitment to the person, not to the feelings they get outta them. On the flip side, what are some of the things that can poison our love? You already mentioned a few of them, but in a few sentences, what are some things that can actually poison our loves that can cause our relationships and our marriages to fail, um, for dating relationships.

One of the biggest things. It's gonna be, uh, your emotions. If you, if you lead with your emotions and you focus on feelings, uh, cuz feelings are blind. Uh, we tend to idealize the other person when we are emotionally attracted to them. Uh, and so our, our heart goes ahead of us and we, you know, you have a conversation with somebody for 20 minutes and you just think, wow, this person has five and a half outta my.

10 qualities that I'm looking for in a future spouse and your, your heart, you could start imagining maybe this is the one I'll get married to. And it's like, whoa, where does that mean? I just met this person. It's only been 20 minutes, you know? And, and John bald second says we do that because our heart desires so much to find that Mr.

Right, that this is right. That will, will exaggerate their qualities, you know, to like, because we, we hope, oh, this could be the one we fill in all the gaps. Cause we we're idealizing that person. But when we idealize. We're not, we're not in love with the real person. We're just in love with the ideal we created.

And eventually we're gonna have to deal with the real person. Who's not as perfect as we thought. Yeah. And, and they'll end up hurting us and frustrating us. So I think that's one of the biggest things with really good people that when they fall into dating relationships, They have to be really on guard about the idealization to recognize, you know, no, I, I wanna be asking questions.

Does this person have virtue? How do they treat their family? How do they treat their roommate? How do they treat their people at the office? You know, do I see them, you know, living a virtuous life, you know, in general, that's reality, not like how does he treating me on date night? , you know, mm-hmm, very good.

And given. What would you say the role of emotions is, uh, in, in love in choosing a spouse? Like there, there is a proper place for it. Uh, I, I know you talk about this in the book, but, uh, but when it comes to, to love, what role do those emotions play and especially in choosing a spouse, You know, emotions aren't bad.

You know, like if I say to my wife, Hey honey, I love you. I'm committed to you. I would die for you, but I have no feelings for you. You know, that that would be a really bad relationship. , you know, what, what are, what are emotions do they. They kind of bring us into the sphere of the other person. Like I, I I'm entering into their world.

I'm connecting with, you know, what's happening on the inside of their life. And that that's a good thing. Yeah. It's just that we can be so swept away by it. So when it comes to choosing a spouse, honestly, the role, the emotions should not play a. Honestly, it it's really, it's a decision. Love is a decision.

So it's your mind? Your mind is going. Is this the kind of person that I can, I should marry? Am I ready to marry someone? Is this the kind of person are they, do they have the character? You know, they're gonna spend tens of thousands of hours with my children. You know, I, I mean, it's, they really aren't.

These are really our questions of the mind. It doesn't mean that the emotions aren't present, cause the emotions unite us with that person. Like we enter into their life, you know, heart to heart. So they're good, but that's. It's not part of the decision making, uh, cuz decisions are made from the head guiding your will.

Like you, you, you just, you know, you, you, you look out and you say, okay, what company am I gonna invest in? And then you choose, you don't go. But I have feelings for this company. So I'll, even though it's, you know, losing a hundred points a day, I'll go invest in it. You know, you don't make decisions based on feelings.

Uh, again, the emotions are, they're a great joy when you experience them in dating and in marriage. But that's not where you're making your decision, you know, you're, you're ultimately thinking through the, the, you know, your life, this other person's life. Do you think you fit together? And then if you do, then your will chooses, I will be married and your emotions go along and will support and, you know, be excited and encouraged or be joy and you know, all of that with it.

Um, but the decision is not made in the emotional sphere. That's really good. And there's a quote that we've mentioned on this show before that CS Lewis has, and he just, El alluded to the fact that you can never rely on an emotion to last in its intensity or even to last at all for really any period of time.

So. Really, really good stuff. Let's talk about marriage for a second here. Before closing out this conversation, you mentioned you been married for 20 years. Uh, what would you say from your experience, uh, being married, but also from all the study and the teaching that you've done? What, what's the secret?

If you were to boil it down to one or two things, what are the ingredients to building a great marriage to building love that? You marry great woman like my wife, and then that'll cover up everything else. , you know, I wanna, I wanna encourage your, your listeners, like my, my wife and I, we talk about marriage a lot on my podcast.

So my podcast is all things Catholic with Edwards three, if you, you. You, you, you just searched for it on apple podcast. You just put Edward Sri, my name you'll find me. You can't put three because if you just put three, you end up finding an Indian Hindu guru. And that's not me but, but I do a podcast every Tuesday and, uh, I, I, Beth comes on.

I don't know, once every. Couple months or so, but when she comes on, we talk about marriage. We talk openly about the struggles of marriage, the joy of marriage. And we we've done things on this. Like what makes a great marriage? Uh, my ratings go dramatically up. Every time I have Beth on they, everyone just loves her

But, uh, but I'll, but I'll say, you know, some things we, we, we talked about is, is what we've talked about here is, you know, we always tell people that when you're going to marriage, you have to be ready for the hard, the difficult. You don't realize no one can really prepare you for how demanding and hard marriage is mm-hmm and that might not happen in your first year.

It might not happen in, you know, three years, five years, seven years, maybe it's 10 years. I don't know when it happens, but everyone will face it. Your marriage hits a wall and, and those are the best that those are oftentimes the biggest times of growth, uh, in a marriage. And so whenever that happens to you, don't press panic.

And when you're thinking, what is going on, why are we fighting? Why is there this tension? How come my spouse doesn't understand me? Just know that every couple goes through that. This is the part of like, your love is being tested. Uh, and a lot of people freak out at that moment. Uh, but God wants to take the initial love.

You bring your marriage, which. Beautiful. It's good. He just wants to make it more beautiful. He wants to make it even better. Uh, but it'll only come through kind of the trials, the daily circumstances and difficulties that come up in vari life to see those challenges, not as just annoyances. This is so frustrating and these are.

Difficulties. I have to bear, you know, no, no, no. You see them as those are the places that I'm being invited to grow in love. I'm being invited to, to be more generous, to be more patient, to be more kind, to be more sacrificial. And what we would say is Catholics is to be more like Christ. Uh that's. I that's what marriage is is doing for me.

It's the school of. Calling me to love at a much deeper level than I could on my own in closing out. What advice would you give to someone who's listening right now? Who's maybe hearing this for the first time and they feel overwhelmed and they feel discouraged since they're not really living up to, to everything that you mentioned.

Uh, what encouragement, what advice would you give to them? Yeah, I would say. Being not afraid. , you know, that, you know, none of us have, has it all worked out. It's not like Beth and I went to our marriages and we, we just, we were nailing all this. We had our own struggles, our own difficulties that we brought into our marriages.

So there is a high bar you don't ever wanna lower the bar of marriage, but you don't wanna be overwhelmed in thinking you can't ever get there. Uh, so my advice would be, first of all, don't, don't be discouraged. Secondly. You know, I, I, as a Christian, I would say turn to God and ask God to help you to heal your heart, you know, to, to, to help you to grow in love.

The third thing I would say, if you're single practice love, even if you're not dating someone, you can practice this with your roommate, with your friends, with your coworkers, um, where you can practice getting out of yourself. You know, if, if you play video games, five hours, a. You're not getting outta yourself, you know, you're not, and you hope you be married someday.

That that's the worst thing you could do for marriage. Prep is just watch Netflix five hours a day, or play on your phone five hours a day, or play video games five hours a day. Yeah. Get out of yourself, serve others in a sacrificial way. And when you do that, you're, you're training yourself for marriage.

Thanks so much. This has been, this has been a blast joy. I really appreciate being with you. Yeah. Appreciate it. And how can people follow you? You mentioned the podcast. Is there any other place that they could follow you? Yeah, find me on, on Facebook, Instagram on Twitter, Edward three. So Edward Sri. And also they can go to my website, uh, which is just my name again, Edwards three, Edward sri.com.

I've got a lot of free videos and my podcast is there as well. So you can, you can find me on my website too. Dr. Three. Thank you so much for your time. Uh, we love Beth by the way, we had her on this podcast, as you know, so thank you so much for what you're both doing and for your time today. Okay. Thanks Joey.

God. If you want more of that, go ahead and pick up the book for yourself or someone else. We really were unable to scratch the surface and the book again is called men, women, and the mystery of love. And if you go to restored ministry.com/ 25, again, that's restored. ministry.com/two five. Just click on the book link there and you can check out on Amazon.

We'll also have a link there. If you wanna buy them in bulk, you can do that and get a discount off of Dr. C's site. And of course you could always just go to amazon.com and. Search for men, women and the mystery of love. Like I mentioned, at the beginning of the show, we're doing a random book giveaway.

We're giving away three copies of the book, men, women, and the mystery of love that we discussed today. And you can enter that giveaway by just joining our email list. Just go to restored. ministry.com/two five. Again, that's restored ministry.com/two five. Just scroll down to the form. You're just gonna put in your name, your email, and just answer a quick question.

Once you do that, we're just gonna send an email out and we'll announce the three winners by September 1st. And if you're already on our email list, then you're already entered for this random give. And if you buy the book now, or you already have the book, you can still enter the email list for the random giveaway.

And if you win, you could always give it away to someone else that you know who could use it. The resources mentioned during the show notes@restoredministry.com slash two five. Again, that's restored ministry.com/ 25. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, please subscribe and share this podcast with someone, you know, who could use it.

Any reviews you guys could leave us would just be really, really helpful. Thank you so much in advance and always remember. You are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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Story Restored Story Restored

In Search of Protection and Security

As a young child, my dad was the apple of my eye, and I was his. But after the divorce, I began seeking masculine love and security and was very careless as to how I found it.

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3 minute read

The story below is by an anonymous author, written at 42 years old. Her parents’ divorced when she was 5. She gave permission for this story to be shared.

HER STORY

It wasn’t until years after the divorce that I learned my father had been unfaithful. At the time I just knew he wasn’t around like other kids’ dads. Someone at school mentioned the word and I came home and asked my mom if that was what they were: divorced.

We went from living in a big house in a manicured neighborhood to living in an apartment in a totally different part of town. I had to change schools. My dad ended up moving across the country with his new wife.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

My dad was the apple of my eye, and I was his. While it’s hard to remember how I felt at the age of 5, I know that there was a sense of deep, deep change. And the fact that there was a new wife meant that my position had changed, too. Later on, I understood these to be wounds of abandonment and rejection.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

As a teenager and young adult, I lost respect for my dad. I sought the security and comfort of family life by integrating myself into the families of others, in particular into the families of boyfriends. As a young adult, I was seeking masculine love and security and was very careless as to how I found it.

When I experienced an unplanned pregnancy with someone I barely knew, I chose to marry him because I believed that’s what marriage was meant for, to provide a safety net for a child. I had no understanding of the spousal relationship independent of parenthood.

I sought in my spouse the security and protection of a father, what I had lost when my father left. I didn’t realize our own lack of relationship would corrode our family life, no matter how hard I worked to “stay married.”

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

Have mercy on them. Their actions do not reflect their love for you. There is a brokenness they cannot rise above.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED OR SEPARATED FAMILIES

They need to be engaged in dialogue that promotes healing. Someone needs to help them name what they could be feeling, what feelings would be normal, and then help them process those feelings.

The identity of what it means to be a family needs to be affirmed even if the parameters of said family have been altered. And, most importantly, the distinction between being a part of a human family which involves brokenness and the Holy Family where we are loved perfectly is something we should all be taught from as early as possible.

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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Story Restored Story Restored

I Thought Something Was Wrong With Me, Not My Family

Growing up, I always thought I lived in a normal family. Though I experienced what I now know was anxiety and depression from the time I was a young girl, I always thought it was because something was wrong with me—not my family situation. Looking back, I see how far from a normal, healthy family we were.

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6 minute read

This story was written by an anonymous author at 23 years old. Her parents divorced when she was 18 years old. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

Growing up, I always thought I lived in a normal family. Though I experienced what I now know was anxiety and depression from the time I was a young girl, I always thought it was because something was wrong with me—not my family situation.

Looking back, I see how far from a normal, healthy family we were. My mother tried to have a closer relationship with me than my father from the time I was born. As early as eight years old, she confided in me about her struggles with my dad.

By the time I was in high school, I knew all about his alcoholism, pornography addiction, and the hundreds of other ways that she told me he did not measure up to other married men she admired. I was her shoulder to cry on for years, having to remain strong and take care of my younger siblings while she was emotionally unstable and my dad was not present.

My parents rarely showed affection and when my dad attempted, my mom showed expressions of disgust. Family outings always ended in a fight between them that they would take out on me and my siblings. My mom made me "choose sides" and would give me the silent treatment if I talked to my dad while she was angry at him.

My parents spent more years sleeping in separate bedrooms than together, and to me this was normal. It was only in high school, after talking with friends, that I realized married couples could actually be friends and trust each other.

My mom had "kicked" my dad out of the house time and time again, so when it happened during my freshman year of college, I figured they would make up and get back together again. However, what proceeded was a divorce pursued by my mom, which led to the unraveling of both of their lives and those of my siblings.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

For the first year after, I was completely numb. The divorce was no surprise, but I couldn't believe it actually happened. I thought I was happy and lived a great life. Looking back, however, I can see that under that happy shell, inside I was so empty.

I had trouble praying and felt that God was far from me. In the years since, there have been many times that I have broken down crying or felt rage well up in me thinking about all that has been taken from me—my memories, childhood home, visits with grandparents during holidays, and parents, who have only become more emotionally unstable since the divorce.

I felt deep loneliness in college as my parents were going through the divorce and struggled to believe I was loved or cared for by anyone. I struggled greatly with self-confidence and suffered from feelings of low self- worth. I deeply sought the affection and approval of others, but could not believe that anyone truly liked me.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

At first, it numbed me inside. I fell into deep perfectionism, anxiety, and overexercised while undereating. By God's grace, I was led to seek help in counseling, which has greatly helped me recognize my wounds, coping behaviors, and begin the process of healing.

I was blessed to meet my husband, a godly man, who truly supported me and helped me to trust in men. Without his presence, I would have easily fallen into a lifestyle of promiscuity. I struggled in our dating relationship to live out chastity because I was constantly seeking his validation and approval.

Holidays these past years have been gut-wrenching as they are constant reminders of the divorce. Growing up, holidays were one of the bright times as we lived out traditions with cousins, grandparents, and family. Since the divorce, my grandparents have fallen into depression and neither side wants to see each other.

My parents have had new girlfriends/ boyfriends at each holiday, which has only made the loss more real. Even though my parents weren't happily married, I deeply miss when they would at least pretend for us kids. I struggle now as a married woman with family boundaries and the loss of my childhood home to go back to and visit.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

1. Counseling with someone of similar values! This truly saved me from going down a path of destruction. Through counseling, I was able to heal and discern my vocation to marriage in a healthy way. I have learned to see myself as God does, which has slowly healed my prayer life and relationship with God.

Counseling has taught me how to cope with anxiety and helped me recognize and heal my eating disorder tendencies. I still continue seeing my counselor today.

2. Form healthy friendships with those of the same and opposite sex. It can be easy to isolate ourselves from friends and to seek love and validation from a romantic partner rather than truly forming a friendship.

3. Realize that you are loved. Regardless of what your parents have led you to believe or what you may feel, it is an objective truth that you are loved, treasured, and protected by your Heavenly Father regardless of the wounds committed against you or the sins you have committed as a result.

My counselor, husband, and time in prayer have helped me realize these beautiful truths. Though I am still early in the journey of healing, I have lived in such freedom from realizing that all that has happened in my family is not my fault and that I am so loved.

4. Seek and create beauty. In times where I felt a loss of identity or found it hard to pray, I was able to connect to God through buying a bouquet of flowers, enjoying a nature walk, cooking, singing, or holding a baby—all tangible reminders of His love and goodness.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED OR SEPARATED FAMILIES

The issue needs to be talked about—in homilies, youth groups, online blogs. I also think that better marriage preparation should be given to young adults dating or engaged to be married. The accompaniment should not stop there but should continue after.

Married couples need constant support and fellowship, especially those, who did not grow up with a healthy example of marriage and are now navigating the waters of marriage and parenthood. I also think retreats for married couples, which contain one spouse from a divorced family, would be beneficial and healing for both spouses.

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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Miranda Rodriguez Miranda Rodriguez

In Defense of the Family: How We Lost It & Why We Need It

I think this is the mentality most people have today; we don’t think divorce is a good thing, but we don’t see it as a terrible thing either. After all, 50% of marriages end in divorce… how can something so normal be that terrible?

It wasn’t until I got older that I began to understand the ramifications of my parents’ divorce; the long-lasting effect it had left on me. Growing up in an uncomfortable love triangle is painful and stressful; there are serious consequences when something that is meant to last forever… doesn’t.

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5 minute read

When I was 12 my parents divorced; even though I knew classmates who had divorced parents, it was one of those things I never thought would happen to me. After I recovered from the initial shock, I told myself it was a normal thing. Whenever someone found out my parents were divorced and said, “I’m sorry” I brushed it off, saying it wasn’t really a big deal.

I think this is the mentality most people have today; we don’t think divorce is a good thing, but we don’t see it as a terrible thing either. After all, 50% of marriages end in divorce… how can something so normal be that terrible?

It wasn’t until I got older that I began to understand the ramifications of my parents’ divorce; the long-lasting effect it had left on me. Growing up in an uncomfortable love triangle is painful and stressful; there are serious consequences when something that is meant to last forever… doesn’t.

What really saddens me though, is that couples continue to divorce once, twice or even more often and many don’t bother getting married at all. There are a couple of reasons I think this happens…

  1. The ‘I’ factor: today we’re told that what we want is more important than anything else; we should follow our dreams and bulldoze anything or anyone that gets in the way. I see millennials forgoing ‘settling down’ to travel, move up the career ladder, get another degree… we want to accomplish and experience; tying ourselves to another person will get in the way of that. Listen, I love to travel as much as the next person, but the idea that we are forgoing all these good things if we get married is a lie. It’s just not true. Planes, jobs, degrees… they will still exist even if we aren’t single. Starting a family is anything but settling down, it’s an adventure that leads to so much growth, especially in love.

  2. Fear: a lot of us have seen our parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings, even friends go through a divorce. We see how painful and unpleasant it is and we think, “nope, not for me.” We realize that the risk of saying ‘I do’ comes with the risk of someone saying ‘I don’t anymore.’ It’s scary. That was certainly the initial reaction that I held on to for years after the fact: I wasn’t going to marry because it just didn’t last. I’ve been lucky enough to realize that this isn’t true; I’ve seen couples who not only love each other years and years of marriage but love each other more. Marriage is challenging, as are all good things (ask anyone who has started a successful business or written a best-selling novel) but that is one of the reasons it’s so wonderful: it isn’t easy, it’s incredible. There are probably a plethora of other reasons for the decline of the family, I won’t go into too many here because I want to touch on the final point: why family matters.

Family is where we learn to love and be loved. Our ability to relate to ourselves, to others and to the world is learned at home. Our attachment types, self-esteem, work ethic… we learn all of this from our parents and siblings. That’s not to say that you can’t unlearn or change; however, we are severely affected by the environment in which we grow up. This isn’t just me saying it, psychologists have learned this through repeated studies, especially recently. As a general rule, a healthy and loving home produces a healthy and loving person. When our family is broken or the ties are distant, the effects run deep, especially relationally.

We see that today as young people are scared of getting close to others, the fear of getting hurt is a huge impediment to true intimacy. Even in popular culture, country singer Rae Lynn hits the nail on the head of what it’s like to grow up in the ‘Love Triangle’ that is divorce for a child.

What the world desperately needs today is “young people full of hope and strength.” This starts at home. I challenge you to help yours. Maybe that’s reaching out to your parents or siblings just to check in, maybe that’s planning a family get-together, or maybe that’s telling your spouse you love them… even if you’re not ‘feeling it’ right at this moment.

Marriage and family are essential to society because it’s essential to our ability to love. It’s up to us to show the world all they have to gain by pursuing and cherishing family life.

“Perfect families do not exist. This must not discourage us. Quite the opposite. Love is something we learn; love is something we live; love grows as it is ‘forged’ by the concrete situations which each particular family experiences.”

Pope Francis

If we don’t learn to love and be loved, there really isn’t much to live for. I hope that our generation is the one to bring the family back to the center of society and share in the adventure that is deep communion with others.

 

This article was written by Miranda Rodriguez, a contributing writer for the Restored blog. It has been reposted with permission. It originally appeared on her blog, First Class Act.

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Podcast Restored Podcast Restored

#024: Tips for Engagement, Wedding, and 1st Year of Marriage - Part 2

If you come from a broken home, planning a wedding and getting married throws some unique challenges at you. Joey shares what he and his wife, Brigid, wish someone told them about engagement, the wedding, and the first year of marriage.

Joey & Brigid Pontarelli.jpg

If you come from a broken home, planning a wedding and getting married throws some unique challenges at you. Joey shares what he and his wife, Brigid, wish someone told them about engagement, the wedding, and the first year of marriage. 

By listening, you’ll hear this and more:

  • Challenges you’ll face planning your wedding if you’re from a broken family or you’re marrying someone who is - and how to deal with them

  • Wedding day anxiety and what to do about it

  • Things to keep in mind about your parents for your wedding day

  • How to handle disappointments, frustrations, and conflict in your first year of marriage

  • One of the major pitfalls most newlyweds fall into

Part 2 of 2. Listen to Part 1 here.

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

If you heard the last episode, you know that my wife, Bridget, and I thought it'd be useful to talk about what we wish someone would've told us about engagement, the wedding and the first year of marriage. And so we just wanna share our experience and some practical advice from the practical wisdom that we learned along the way.

And so by listening to this episode, here's what you're gonna get out of it. We'll touch on some of the challenges that you'll likely face in planning your wedding. If you come from a broken family or maybe you're marrying someone who comes from a broken home and how to deal with them, we'll get some quick tips on wedding planning and planning the honeymoon as well.

We'll talk about wedding day anxiety and what to do about it. I, I think a lot of us who come from broken homes deal with this, cuz there's a lot of fear attached to love and marriage. We'll get into some things that keep in mind about your parents on your wedding day. Really trying to encourage you guys to have some empathy for them and put yourself in their shoes.

Then we'll get into the first year of marriage, kinda what to expect from that first year of marriage. And some things they'll look out for along the way. We'll mention how to handle some disappointments, frustrations and conflict that are inevitably gonna come up eventually. And we also talk about one of the major pitfalls that most newlyweds fall into.

And so if you want more of. Keep listening.

Welcome to the Restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pontarelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 24 and we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. Research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce, our experience in a romantic relationships.

Why is that? Because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous ways in our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actual tips and expert advice on how to find and build. Authentic love.

Now this is part two of two in part one. The last episode that was episode 23, we permanently focused on engagement. We talked a little bit about dating, but it was mostly engagement. And as you heard at the top of this show in this episode, we're gonna focus on the wedding wedding planning and some of the challenges that are gonna come up for you.

If you come from a broken family, we'll also get into the first year of marriage. Now, if you haven't. Part one, I encourage you to listen that maybe do that now, but if you don't want to totally fine. You can just listen to this episode and you're still gonna get a lot out of it. Also. I wanted to say, I'm really sorry, but Bridget, actually, wasn't able to record this episode with me.

We had planned for that, but due to our schedules and the deadline for this episode, we weren't able to make it happen. And so I'm really sorry about that. But Russ assured that we actually developed this content together. And so I'm just gonna be the one delivering it, but know that Bridget was involved with.

As well. And so with that, I wanna just dive in to talk about the wedding. And the, the first thing to talk about is just some wedding planning tips that we learned along the way. And the first thing of course, like we mentioned in last episode is don't let the wedding become more important than your relationship and your future marriage.

I we see this all the time and we even fell into this too. The wedding day seems to take over your relationship. You stop going on dates, you stop having good conversations. You stop having fun together, and you just focus on the wedding. And man, this is so dangerous for your relationship, especially if this gets really serious.

And so just make sure you're investing time, investing money into your relationship into your marriage. In the last episode, again, we went into this a bit more. I'm not gonna get into it as much, but just remember. Don't let the wedding take over and ruin your relationship. And this tip might be pretty obvious, but do as much planning as possible, far in advance.

And I know a lot of people, you know, like to wait till last minute or they don't end up getting things done until the last minute you can probably think of back in school or work. And so one thing you can do to help you actually get things done is just set some deadlines and ask some of your. To, to keep you accountable.

So, you know, even if you need to make some artificial deadlines, like, oh, this has to be done at the end of this month, even though you could potentially wait like two months more, that's gonna help you get way more done way sooner than if you just kind of mosey along and wait till the last minute. One of the tools that helped us the most get a lot done and stay organized was having a to-do list.

And so we just made a Google sheet, a shared Google sheet, and we just had different tabs for different things. Like one tab was a to-do list. And, you know, Bridget had her section. I had my section and we would put due dates in there and just. Start executing, getting stuff done. Uh, we had another tab for venues, the different venues we were looking at and some info on them helped us store everything.

Uh, we had, you know, another tab for DJs and so on. It really helped us stay organized and save a ton of time, especially cuz we weren't living together. So we didn't need to wait till we were both together to talk about things and start getting things done. We're able to just go to the Google sheet, see what we needed to do and work on.

And since then, we've actually shared that template that we use, that we created, uh, with friends of ours and they've found it helpful. And so we'd be happy to share that with you. If you'd like, if you're planning a wedding or maybe soon planning a wedding or, you know, someone who's planning a wedding, just email us.

We're more than happy to send that to you. And you could email us at. wedding@restoredministry.com. Again, that's wedding restored, ministry.com and ministry is just singular. Next tip, delegate as much as you can, to your friends, to family members on your wedding day. And before it find some friends, you trust some family members who, you know, are competent.

And give them some responsibility and give them detailed instructions on what you want them to do, what you want, uh, it to look like, whatever it might be. And then what I recommend is having a shared to-do list for them too, maybe on the, the Google sheet, because there's probably tons of details that they don't need to know about.

Um, but you can use an app like apple reminders. And just write out the tasks you want them to handle. And then you can share that with them. If they're an apple user. Now, if they're not an apple user and you're not an apple user, totally fine. There's other applications out there that you can find like to do lists that you can share with them.

But we did this on our wedding day, showed up to Kendra, a friend of ours who is a huge help for us on the wedding day and even the days leading up to it. And she really allowed us to just focus. On our marriage to focus on getting married. She's a very competent friend. And so what we did is we had, uh, get, did a phone call with her and wrote out all the things we wanted her to do the wedding week, the wedding day, uh, we put it in that reminders app and shared that with her.

And so she had a list that she could pull up on her phone at any point, made it really, really easy. And so things were really clear for her. We laid him out exactly what we expected, what we wanted her to do for. She had the list. She can always go back to and look at if she maybe forgot something. So it worked out really well.

And so definitely delegate, delegate, delegate, and you don't have to do this alone. Okay. And I know this is hard for a lot of people, especially your control freaks out there. I get you because I'm kind of one of you, I've made a lot of progress along the way, but man, it's so easy to just want control over everything.

But if you can give up a little bit of that control, you're gonna get peace and return, especially. Because you're not gonna need to be thinking about everything. It's so stressful to keep track of everything. But if you have other people who are competent, who can help you with it, man, you are gonna enjoy your wedding day, your wedding week so much more.

Now the next tip is to make a plan to tackle the challenges. That may arise with your parents and relatives, an example of some of those challenges. First one, when we did invitations, we weren't quite sure what we were supposed to write because my parents are divorced. And so typically on an invitation, you've all have seen these, you know, it says Mr.

And Mrs. So, and so invite you and so on, but. Obviously we couldn't use that. So we had to think about, and we came up with something else, which I know, you know, other couples have used as well. And it was just a simple phrase that we had at the top of the invitation that said together with their families, and then went on to say, you know, bridged Joey.

And so on. The next thing that's kind of challenging is taking pictures of your family and your relatives on your wedding day. And so one of the things that we recommend is just having a list of the individual pictures that you want the photographer to get. So give them that list, make that. Take some time to think through it, give them the list.

And they typically will ask you, I believe for a list, but even if they don't just send it to them anyway and make sure they know that your parents are divorced, just so they don't, you know, try to put them together in a picture that may be kind of awkward for, for both of your parents and for you. And just understand that some things are gonna change in your wedding day.

You know, we didn't totally follow that list that we gave the photographer and we didn't plan on it, but we actually did get a picture with my mom, my dad, and my siblings together. And so my mom stood on one side. My dad stood on another side and, uh, it ended up working out. It it's a beautiful picture too, but, uh, just set some expectations and just know going into what you.

Speaking of pictures. Another challenge can be, there's a tradition you may know of where the bride and the groom will have on a table, the wedding photos from their parents and perhaps their grandparents. And I think it's just a beautiful, beautiful tradition, but obviously we couldn't do that. And for me, that was hard.

It was sad. It was something that I really wish we could have had, but. Couldn't. And so, uh, after the initial sadness and me kinda letting go of it, I started thinking about our future kids. And I started thinking that, okay, I want our kids to be able to do that, but since we couldn't do that, what we had were, uh, photos of family members that were deceased, that, you know, we wish they could have been there that day.

So that could be a good substitution if, uh, if you wanna go that route, another challenge is sitting arrangements. So, you know, there's always the question of which parents it's where and how do you make everything fair? Totally get that what we ended up doing. And it took some time and some thought to figure this out.

But what we did is at the church, my dad sat closer to the front and at the reception, my mom sat closer to the front, closer to the head table and then ended up working out really well. And we just made sure to communicate. I think I called them both and said, Hey, this is what's gonna happen. And it worked out well.

In fact, my. Siblings sat at the table with her. My dad's siblings sat at the table with him. And so they had people with them and it worked out really well. So just make sure you're communicating up front, make sure you have a plan going into it. And one of the last challenges that we'll mention, and this applies, even if you don't come from a broken home, but different family members have opinions about your wedding day, and they're gonna tell you.

And so what we recommend you doing is hear them out if it's healthy, if they're doing it in a respectful way. And, but just understand that it's your. And you're not obliged to do what they say again. Good to consider it. And maybe you do end up doing some of those things, but make sure that you know, that it's your decision.

Don't feel forced. Don't feel manipulated into doing something that you don't wanna do, just because someone's putting pressure on you. It's okay to say no, I'm sorry. No, that can't happen. And so the main point with all of these challenges really is to just set clear boundaries and expectations for the wedding day.

There's no magic formula here. Just start talking about it now with your fiance, make a plan and then communicate that plan to everyone involved just to set their expectations. So when they go into that day, they know, okay. This is gonna happen quickly. I wanted to give you some tips on honeymoon planning.

So what we did is I actually planned the honeymoon and I didn't tell Bridget where we were going. Now she had an idea of kind of what's a pack that she knew that we were going somewhere warmer, but she didn't know where we were going. And so we, uh, we ended up going to the Canary islands and island called, uh, rife.

And it's a Spanish island off the coast of Africa. It sounds super bougie, but it's. Decently affordable, considering some of the deals that we found and the money that we, we were able to save for it. And it was just awesome. But some of the things I learned along the way, it can be stressful first off. So just take a deep breath and don't overwhelm yourself.

You don't need to vet every single option out there. Just pick something that you think you'd like. But some of the steps that I followed, if you're more of a planner, more of a detailed person, this is especially gonna be helpful for you. That the first thing really to get down is what's your budget and there's nothing wrong.

Simple honeymoon. In fact, I think those are the best honeymoons because you're usually exhausted from the wedding and you're not up to do a ton of adventurous stuff. I mean, you may be at some point on your honeymoon, but simple honeymoons, relaxing honeymoons, I think are awesome. So don't feel bad. Don't feel like you have an inferior experience just because you weren't able to spend a ton of money.

No. And don't go into debt for your honeymoon, please. Don't do. It's just gonna cause more headaches for you later on. It might be a nice trip, but then you're just gonna have to pay off that debt. It's gonna rack up interest and it's gonna be a problem. So save the money in advance. Do what you can. It does need to be a super bougie trip and you could always do another trip, a nicer trip later, if you want to, after setting the budget and talking with your fiance about that.

You wanna ask your fiance? Of course, what type of honeymoon they would prefer. They likely have an idea of what they'd like, and you probably know what they like too, for Bridget. She's such a beach girl. I'm a mountain guy, but she's such a beach girl. And I was okay with doing the beach thing because I knew that I we'd be tired.

We'd be exhausted. And so the beach sound really nice actually. So once we kind of set that, I just got to work researching and I just gathered a bunch of info. I read a bunch of articles. I watched videos. I talked to people that I knew around the world, getting their advice on things and, uh, yeah, just gathered a bunch of info.

And then I made a list of some different options. And then I started vetting those options against our budget and some other things that we we wanted. So for example, you may want a place where you can go jet skiing, or you might wanna go hiking, or you might want it to be more secluded or you might want an all inclusive.

Sort of thing wherever you're at, maybe you can't afford all that and that's totally fine. Just know what you want and kind of vet those options against that, just to make sure that you're getting what you want, but at the same time, you're not going too far above and beyond. And if after doing all that, it's not obvious where you should go.

Just use the process of elimination to eliminate a bunch of options and just limit it down to like one or two options or maybe three. Options and then make a call. You know, if, if you're doing it as a surprise, you make the call, it was a little bit more challenging cuz I wanted to be sure Bridget liked it, but I couldn't talk to her about it.

I actually didn't tell anyone about it. And so there was a little bit more pressure I felt, but you know, if you can talk to your fiance, then you can make a decision together, but just make a call. Don't overthink this. Don't over plan. It, it is what you make it. And so make it awesome and just know that no trip is perfect.

If you've ever traveled, you've likely had things that go wrong. That happens all the time. I've traveled a lot and man things go wrong and you just have to roll with it. You just have to learn how to deal with it in the moment. Of course you could have some plans and how you're gonna deal with certain things if they go wrong, but just understand that no amount of planning is gonna make it go perfectly.

And so don't overdo it. Just make it. All right. I think this is the most important part of this episode. So really listen in here. I wanna talk about the wedding day, especially wedding day anxiety. I think this is a big deal. Like I mentioned four people who come from broken homes because there's a lot of fear when it comes to love and marriage.

We don't wanna repeat our parents' mistakes. And so we are terrified in a lot of cases and maybe that's not you and if not, that's great, but a lot of us do deal with this. And so just understand. I think it's normal. I think it's normal to be nervous. It's normal to be anxious. It's normal to be scared.

This is probably the biggest decision that you'll ever make. And so, yeah, it's okay to feel the pressure. It's okay. If you have doubts too, you might be thinking, is this the right person? Is there someone else who would be better? You know, am I gonna repeat my parents' mistakes or are we gonna just end up like my parents?

What I would say is just expect those doubts, those thoughts, those feelings to come up, just expect. And if you expect them, when they do, you're not gonna be freaked out from 'em, you're gonna know, oh, you know, Joey said that this is gonna happen and it's happening. Okay. You know, I'll get through this and you have to trust that if you've discerned your relationship.

Well, right. If you've gone through a process of making a decision about if this is the person that you should be with, if you've taken your time, if you've gotten the advice of people that love you, if there's a lot of respect in the relationship, there's authentic, love the person is a person to virtue.

Taking time to develop a strong relationship, then you have to trust your preparation. You have to trust your discernment and a sports analogy. Here. You can train, train, and train for a game, a big game, but you're always gonna get nervous. At least I did. I played baseball all my life. Played some different sports, play baseball and volleyball in college.

And you get nervous. And that's normal. And, and at that point, when you're going into the game, you just have to trust your preparation. Now it's not to say that there's never a legit reason to call off a wedding. You know, some of those doubts that anxiety inside of you may be pointing to some real issue, a red flag in your relationship.

And so just listen to that, get to the root of it, understand where's this coming from? And if you need to delay your wedding or even call it off altogether, Do it do it it's much better to go through the embarrassment and the struggle of calling off a wedding than to get married and be miserable, get married and get divorced.

No one, nobody wants that. And so have the courage to call it off if you need to. And most of those issues that would actually be red flags have to do with morality, right? The integrity of the person that you're marrying. And so if you're all good on the integrity front, the next thing that you need to know is that you're never gonna find a flawless person.

You're never gonna find a flawless person. And some people think that there's just one soulmate out there there's one person that's meant for them in this world. I actually don't believe that. I do think that God in certain situations can call you to be with a specific person. But ultimately I believe that it could work with different people, right?

It could potentially work with different people. And I think the danger to believing that there's just one person out there for you is that people get married and things are. right. They're in love. They're happy. But then the struggles come, they end up fighting a lot. Money's tight. You know, the husband doesn't put the toilet seat down, the wife shops too much.

And then both spouses think if I really found the one, it wouldn't be like this. It wouldn't be hard. And guys, I'm here to tell you, please hear me out. That's a lie. That is a lie. When you've gotten married, you go through those struggles and you think if. Was the one, it would be easy, not true. Just look at people who are on their third, their fourth, or their fifth marriage, still searching for the one somebody emailed me recently and said that their dad is on his sixth marriage.

Now I'm not judging him. I don't know his story. I don't know what happened in those marriages, but I can't help. But think that this soulmate idea played into. Either consciously or not. And so don't drive yourself crazy, trying to figure out if you've found the perfect person for you. Uh, this may sound odd, but you'll never know if things could have been better with someone else.

You'll never know, cuz you'll never have lived that out and it could be natural to wonder, especially leading up to the wedding day. You know, if it might be better with someone else. Totally get that. Don't beat yourself up for thinking that if that crosses your mind, but it is pointless to obsess about that, especially once you're married, because I don't think in this world it's ever possible to have a hundred percent surety about many things.

Maybe there are some things that you can have a hundred percent surety about, but I think there's always the possibility of doubt because we have free will, we can choose things. And so we may not always know this is absolutely the right thing to do. This is I'm a hundred percent sure. That this is the person for me.

Again, I'm not saying to just marry anyone. You need to go through the process of discerning, but just understand that struggles are gonna arise and your relationship's gonna be imperfect. And that's okay. And, and speaking about all this, uh, token, the guy who wrote Lord of the rings, he actually wrote about it in a letter to his son.

He said when the glamor wears off or merely works a bit thin, then they that the spouses. Think they have made a mistake and that the real soulmate is still to find the real soulmate too often proves to be the next sexually attractive person that comes along someone whom they might indeed very profitably have married if only.

Hence divorce to provide the, if only. And of course they are as a rule quite right. They did make a mistake. Only a very wise man at the end of his life can make a sound judgment concerning whom amongst the total possible chances. He ought have profitably married. Nearly all marriages, even happy ones are mistakes in the sense that they almost certainly in a more perfect world or even a little more care in this very imperfect one, both partners might have found more suitable mates, but the real soulmate is the one you are actually married to.

And so when challenges come in, your relationship in your marriage specifically, it's normal. Just understand that it's normal love is challenging. It always will be the struggles in your marriage are not a sign that you chose the wrong person. They're not a sign that you should leave to find someone else.

It just means you have work to do. It means that your marriage needs some work. You need some help. And so go to counsel. Read some good books on relationships, invest time into your relationship, going on dates, doing things that you enjoy doing when you were dating. And it's also a sign that you and your spouse aren't perfect.

I've always said that the more virtuous the spouses, the happier the marriage, the opposite is true too. The more you struggle with advice with bad habits, the more miserable your marriage is going to be. And so it's so important that you work on yourself, that you encourage your spouse to develop virtues, right?

Good habits. And by doing that, I think you'll see that your marriage gets better. Just remember you can't make your spouse perfectly happy. If you can remember that you're gonna have a much happier marriage. It's kind of ironic, but you won't be looking at your spouse to fill you in a way that they were never meant to fill you.

And again, you'll never gonna find the perfect person. Just find the right person who possess as virtue, discern that relationship. Well, develop authentic love. Don't settle on moral issue. But don't at the same time, expect them to be a perfect European prince or princess. All right, moving on. Next tip is on your wedding day.

Have empathy for your parents. Just understand guys that as hard as it may be for you on your wedding day. And I totally get that. How the brokenness in your family, when these big life events come up, it's often more pronounced, right? We feel. The pain more in those moments. I totally get that at the same time.

I just wanna challenge you to kind of step outside yourself for a little bit, and just, just understand that your wedding day may be awkward for your parents, too. It may be hard for them to, and if you ask your parents to, you know, play a role in your wedding in some way, just understand that they may not be comfortable doing that.

And you know, maybe they will end up doing it. Maybe they won't, but just understand that. And it may not just be awkward for you, for your parents, for your family, but also your relative. Right. When the different families interact, who knows what sort of drama and tension could be there too. I know typically in a divorce people pick sides, you know, one side hates on the other, the other side hates on the other and it just gets really ugly.

And so a wedding could be tense because of that. One of the things that was kind of awkward for us, and I'm sure kind of hard for my parents too, was the rehearsal dinner. It was in a small Italian restaurant and my parents ended up sitting next to each other and ended up working out fine, but it was kind of weird because they really didn't talk at all.

And now they're like sitting next to each other in a room full of our family and friends. And it was just kind of weird and bridge. And I were, were sitting there too. So, you know, I felt for them in that moment and it was kind of an odd situation. So hopefully you can prevent that from happening, but if it.

Just be prepared for it as much as possible last tip when it comes to the wedding day, enjoy it and let the little things go. It's so tempting to just want to control everything like I mentioned, but just live the moment, live the moment on your wedding day, because it goes by so fast. And if things are not perfect, That's okay.

In fact, I expect them not to go perfectly and just roll with the punches. One of the things that happened was, uh, I was late to my own rehearsal. I, uh, went to the airport with my dad to pick a bunch of people up and pick up a rental car that bridge and I were gonna use. And, uh, the traffic was so bad that I didn't make it back in time.

I didn't even get the car on time. I had. Go to the airport and come back. And so it really was a waste of time to do the thing to begin with. But, uh, later that night, actually the night before my wedding, I had to go to the airport at like midnight, one in the morning to pick up this rental car. So, which is like a mess, like I'm such a planner.

And the fact that that happened is hilarious and was stressful, but eventually. Let it go. Another thing that happened on the wedding day was Bridget's Val kept flying away. So we just had to deal with that, especially during pictures and things, but it ended up working out something kind of embarrassing for me when we entered the reception room where all of our family and friends were, I, uh, Didn't know it then, but on video you can see, I was like yanking Bridge's arm too hard.

I, I didn't even realize it. I was just like excited and happy and just moving around. And, uh, when I was leading her behind me, I was just like pulled her arm too hard and she was fine. But, uh, but looking at it, I was like, man, gotta relax a little bit. So that sort of stuff is gonna happen. Oh, the last thing we actually, when we were leaving for the night, going to the hotel, That we, uh, had chosen for our wedding night.

We, you know, got all the bags, packed up. One of our friends helped us do it. And, uh, we, you know, go to our hotel and we were staying in the city and, you know, our friends were, were far away from us, but then we realized we actually had one of the wrong bags. It was a bag of one of Bridget's friends, Lacey, if you're listening, shout out to Lacey.

Uh, so we had to do. Swap. We ended up doing it the next day Lacey came down and she was able to, to leave the bag for us. But, uh, man, just like such a mess. So expect stuff like that to go wrong. You can't control everything. Things will go wrong and that's okay. Live the moment. Enjoy it. Soak it up. It's a really beautiful day, especially if you can let go of the little things.

So I'm sure there's lots more that can be said about the wedding day, wedding planning, all that, but I hope those are some helpful tips for you guys. Now we wanna transition into talking about the first year of marriage, you know, after the wedding's over the honeymoon's over, you're just kind of back to, to normal life.

But especially if you didn't live together before marriage, things are really new to you. And even if you did, uh, there may be some changes in your relationship now that you're married. And so I just wanna talk about some of the things that we've learned along the way. Some of these things are very basic.

They're simple, but hopefully they'll be helpful for you, especially if this is something that you're gonna be experiencing soon. The first tip is to embrace the reality of marriage, not the Instagram version in your mind. Get don't hear me wrong here. Marriage is so beautiful. Right. You have a life companion.

There's permanence to it. It's fun. It's adventurous, it's romantic. But at the same time, it's gonna be messy, right? It's not gonna be perfect. You may think that someone else has a perfect relationship. You may see their pictures on Instagram. You may see all these things about their marriage, their life, their family, but understand that that's just the highlights of their life.

So don't compare. The behind the scenes in your life to theirs, there were some quote, like don't compare your behind the scenes with someone else's highlight reels and know that you're not gonna have a great marriage by accident. It won't just happen. You need to actively work on it. You need to actively build it.

And again, don't be discouraged when your marriage isn't perfect because those people. On social media. They're not showing you the imperfections. They're not showing you the reality the day in, day out, the no filtered stuff. Oftentimes it's pretty far from reality. Next sip. Understand the two ingredients for great marriage.

The research shows that two important things that you need for a great marriage are a realistic concept of love and healthy expectations of marriage. When it comes to a realistic concept of love. The question here is, is your concept of love realistic. Obviously, when I was younger, I really thought that.

Love equaled feelings. And I maybe couldn't have put it into words, but I certainly believe that deep down. And then when feelings and my relationships began to fade, I thought that love was ending. And I was terrified cause I didn't want my love to end the way that my parents love did. And so I eventually learned that this is just a really immature concept of love.

And so I needed to, to purge that, to purify that, to learn that love is a choice. Love is an action. Love is something that you choose. Willing the good of the other it's desiring and doing what's best for the person that you love. And I go into this more in episode 17, with Miranda, the episode's titled six tips to conquer your fear of love, but we get into a lot of different components of love.

And there's a exercise that you can do. Actually, you can just write out what love looks like to you. So get a piece of paper, get a pen, pull up the, an app on your phone and just write out, say, you know, love means. Or when you love someone, you do this and just try to get a grasp, try to put these beliefs that you have inside of you into words.

So, you know, what you expect love to look like. And then from there, if there's any unrealistic ideas that you have about love, or maybe some lies that you believe you can. Bring truth into those, right? You can kind of smother them with truth, suffocate, those lies with truth. And again, go to episode 17. If you wanna hear me go into this a little bit more, but again, simple exercise, just get a piece of paper, pen, an app, and just write out what love looks like to you.

Love means this. When you love someone, you do this, or you say this, get it out of you. So you can really address anything in you. That is unrealistic when it comes to love. Like I mentioned, the next ingredient is healthy expectations of marriage. Are your expectations of marriage healthy. And for those of us who come from broken homes, I think almost always the answer is no, because we've seen a really broken model of love and marriage.

And so we really need to learn to set healthy expectations for marriage. And some questions that you can think about is, do you think that you'll never fight, right? Maybe, maybe you saw your parents fight a lot. So you wanted to go in the complete opposite direction. I dealt with this and you thought, okay, we are gonna have.

Picture perfect marriage. We're never gonna fight things are gonna be great. We're gonna have healthy kids. It's gonna be awesome. And obviously you're gonna fight. And so having that expectation that you'll never fight for example, is really, really dangerous to your marriage. That's just one example.

Another one is, do you expect to travel the world? But your spouse is a homebody, you know, get practical. What is this gonna look like? What is your marriage going to actually look like day in, day out, the special things that you do together and so on. You wanna really set some healthy expectations for marriage and in the book, saving your marriage before it starts by doctors, Les and Leslie parrot, they talk about unspoken rules and unconscious roles.

Again, unspoken rules. And unconscious rules. And what they're talking about with unspoken rules, we all have rules that we just kind of follow inherently. We just learn them in our families or someplace, and we just follow them somewhat blindly. And they could be as simple as you know, when you're brushing your teeth.

You squeeze toothpaste from the bottom, not the middle, not the top. And you know, it can be as silly as that, or it could be more serious things as well. You know? And so that's kind of a silly example, but that is an example of an unspoken rule. Another one could be, you know, you always put the butter in the fridge.

And then maybe your spouse thinks, no, you put the butter on the counter, you leave it out. And so those unspoken rules, just things that we live our lives by the rules that we live our lives with, that we never really think about, but we certainly carry with us. Unconscious roles are, are similar, but different.

These are just roles that people play in a household. So. In your house, you probably had one of your parents who was a better cook, right? They would cook more often. Maybe one of your parents was more of a handy person, right? Maybe it was your dad. Maybe it was your mom who knows. And so we tend to think on an unconscious level that those roles.

Will transfer into our relationship. But I remember something from the book I mentioned saving your marriage before it starts a guy and girl got married and the girl expected the guy to be Mr. Fixer upper to fix everything around the house. And the guy expected the girl to do that. And basically from the girls' perspective, her dad was like handyman, he can do anything, but the guy.

His dad was a busy executive and he was, you know, gone a lot, working a lot. And so his mom was the one who did that. So they both expected the other to fill that role of being the handyman around the house. And so it caused some tension in their relationship. So it's good to just be aware of the unspoken rules that.

You follow and the unconscious roles that you play as well. And so talk about this with your fiance, with your spouse, uh, an exercise that you can do on this front, when it comes to unspoken rules, just write out what are some unspoken rules that you follow? What rules were present in your parents' marriage, growing up in your family, growing up, and they could be healthy or they could be unhealthy.

Another example is, you know, never resolve conflict, never resolve conflict, or at least never resolve it in public. A lot of kids experience that they see their parents fight, their parents just go separate ways. Maybe one of the spouses leaves the house and the kids never see any resolution. And so it can be easy growing up thinking that, okay, when you have conflict, you just leave.

You just don't resolve it. And that's so obviously so unhealthy, but that can be maybe one of the rules that you're living life by. And they could be much simpler. Like I mentioned, such as, you know, never buy orange juice or only buy milk. So again, you can get a piece of paper pen. Pull up an app on your phone and just start typing out.

You know, what unspoken rules do you follow? What did you observe growing up in your family and your parents' marriage? When it comes to unconscious roles, same exercise. Get a piece of paper, pen and write out the different roles that you saw play out in your house. It can be cleaning, cooking, fixing things, managing finances, doing yard, work, all that stuff.

Just write 'em out. Know what you expected and then talk to your fiance, talk to your spouse about this. It's gonna help you to avoid a lot of conflict, a lot of, kind of unspoken expectations that lead to frustration. And so, yeah, just write about what do you expect your marriage to look like when it comes to those various roles?

That we need to play in our houses. And again, in episode 17, you can go to restored ministry.com/seventeen, or just pull up episode 17 on your podcast app for more on this topic. Another tip understand that one of the biggest dangers to your marriage is idolizing your marriage and your spouse putting that up on such a pedestal thinking, right?

Like I mentioned before that they can make you perfectly happy. and then later they don't and you're completely destroyed you think, oh my gosh, we weren't meant to be married. This is a total disaster. So again, it's easy to want the opposite of what you saw in your family, but just be careful though, you don't go too far in the opposite direction and create this unrealistic expectation for a perfect marriage.

And again, I couldn't put this into words growing up, but eventually I put my hand on it for a while. It was just kind of there untouched, but I really believe that my spouse and I wouldn't fight, we'd never get annoyed with each other. If we did have any fights, they would be few. They would be all cordial.

We'd never get angry. There would be few struggles. Our kids would be perfectly healthy. I know it sounds ridiculous saying it right now. Just try to understand the different ideas that you have in your head about your marriage and just avoid idolizing your spouse because idols always bring disappointment, always bring frustration.

When we put someone on a pedestal, when we think them to be better than they actually are, we expect something to happen when in reality, something else is gonna happen. And that leads in perfectly to the next point. Be prepared for the disappointments and frustrations that will arise in your marriage.

You are going to get annoyed with each other. It's just gonna happen. And you've probably already experienced that in your dating relationship during your engagement, but it's eventually is gonna happen. And maybe some couples, you know, don't experience this for a while, but eventually you will experience this and, and one area where it's common to get annoyed with each other is when it comes to organization cleanliness.

Right. It, it might take you a while to get used to your spouse's level of organization and cleanliness, for example. I'm a very organized person. I like things in their proper places. And that's just the way that I operate Bridget. She is organized. I wanna throw her under the bus, but she's not as organized as me.

And when it comes to cleanliness, she's actually more clean than me in terms of, you know, dusting things and wanting to clean the floors and vacuum all the time. Like I can kind of do without that. I think a lot. Guys are like that. But organization though, things in the proper places is important for me.

And so we're different on those two things and that's okay. But it's really important to, to understand, to have some patience with each other when it comes to those things. Like, you know, I'm not constantly following Bridget around and saying, Hey, you know, please. Pick this up, organize this, organize that, you know, from time to time, I will ask her, say, Hey, can we take care of this?

Can I help you with this? And we'll get it done, but I don't have this expectation for her to be like me. And on the cleanliness side, you know, she's typically doing more of the cleaning, but I will chip in and I'll help out and I'll say, okay, how can I help? What can I do to, to keep things clean? Or, you know, if I have a little bit of time to myself, I'll clean the bathroom or do something like that.

Cuz I know that makes her happy. One of the things that best prepared me for marriage actually was being from a big family and, and you know, always having roommates and things over the years, it just made me kind of get outside of myself and just deal with things, not being the way that I wanted them to be.

And so, you know, if you have some time now to do that, to practice that maybe with your own roommates, your own family, definitely do it. Develop that virtue now so that when it comes to marriage, You won't be as annoyed. You won't be as frustrated. You'll be better able to deal with any frustrations that come up.

Another thing that can be an adjustment to for people, especially if you didn't live together before marriage is being around each other all the time, it it's an adjustment, right? It's an adjustment. And don't think that you need to spend 24 7 with that person. And this may be obvious to a lot of you, but for some people it's not, you maybe feel like, oh, okay, now that we're together, we just spend all time together.

But it's actually really healthy for your relationship to give each other some space, to spend time with your friends, to go out and do things that you know, you're passionate about that you love doing. And of course, you know, you never just wanna abandon your spouse, not talking about that, but, uh, space is really good, really healthy.

And like I mentioned, when it comes to all these things, when it comes to your personalities, kind of rubbing up against each other, just go at it with patience with grace, know that it's not gonna be perfect, but you both can grow and change and improve. And I've seen it in my own marriage. You know, one of the things that I did wrong.

Starting out was I would leave the toilet seat up all the time and it drove Bridget crazy. And all the ladies listening right now, you're like, yes, it's so annoying if you've ever lived with men. I didn't understand that. I just didn't know that. Then she explained it to me and said, Hey, this is why, you know, in the middle of the night, when you go to the bathroom and the toilet seats up, and, you know, as a woman, you sit down, it's the worst.

so sorry team either. But, uh, it really helped me to understand. I need to change and I did. And you can ask bridge now. It never happens. I always put the toilet seat down for her. So , I dunno if that's helpful, but, uh, but you can change. You can develop new habits. You can't change old habits. It is possible, but be patient with each other and learn each other's personalities.

Right. Just know that you're constantly gonna be discovering things about your spouse. You know, like I mentioned, I'm a decisive, organized person. I'm an aggressive problem solver, right. When there's a problem I wanna tackle to the ground right now, a bridge it on the other. Is more of a reflective person.

She's a little bit of a slower decision maker. She can be decisive when she has to be, but usually she wants to think about things a little bit more, and that could be frustrating for me. And I know I could be frustrating to her because she wants to take more time to make decisions. And so there is some give and take there.

We have to be respectful of each other's personalities and, you know, we've had fights over this. We've had a lot of frustration over this, but thankfully we've been able to work through some of the issues and just understand, okay. They are not the same as me. They're not the same as me and they're not going to be the same as me and that's.

Okay. And so just respect the differences between you and even see value in them. For example, you know, I'm a go getter, I'm a decisive person. But bridge is more reflective. And sometimes I need someone to slow me down a little bit and say, wait, did you think about this? Did you think about this? And sometimes I don't and having bridged there to kind of pull me back and say, okay, before you jump out of the plane, make sure you're wearing your parachute.

You can really compliment each other in that way. So don't look at these things as just points of tension, but they really can help build your relationship up. If you look at them in the right light and you respect each other's differences. Next tip is something I just wanna repeat, cuz it's so, so important.

Your spouse will never fully complete you fully make you happy. I believe that when God can do that, but we consciously are not expect our spouses to make us perfectly happy and often to even heal us, to make our lives better, to make our problems go away. And that could just be so unhealthy for a marriage.

So just understand again, I mentioned this before, but I'm saying it again because it's so important. You have to understand that your spouse will not complete you. They may won't make you perfectly happy, but at the same time, they can help you. Right. They can't help you grow. They can't help you heal.

Marriage can actually be extremely healing. It has been for me, it's challenging, but it's also very healing, but understand that your spouse can't fix or. You, we have to do the work ourselves. Even if they're there assisting us, they can't be the reason for it. They can't be the one doing the work next tip.

And this tip gets to the heart of what I think is one of the biggest pitfalls for newlyweds. And that is don't become complacent. Don't become complacent. It's so easy when you get married to just kind of soak in the goodness of marriage and you should do that. It's a good thing. But often what can happen is that we just get comfort.

We don't challenge each other to grow. We end up just sitting around and watching Netflix all the time. And so my challenge to you is just, don't get cooped up in your house. Don't get cooped up in your apartment, get out, build intimacy, have those deep talks with each other. If you're religious, pray together.

Talk about your thoughts and your feelings on different things. Talk about your brokenness, build friendships with other couples. That's so helpful. Just spending time with other couples. For some reason, it just really helps your own marriage. And don't gossip about your spouse. That's one thing I think is so deadly to marriage is gossiping about your spouse.

And I've heard people who have been married way longer than me. Talk about this, how it really just kills a marriage. If you gossip about your spouse. So don't say anything to anyone who can't help solve the problem that you're currently facing. I wanna say that again, don't say anything to anyone who can't help you solve the problem you're currently facing.

And so if you go and talk to a mentor about the problems in your marriage, that's not gossip. You're trying to get them to help you solve the problems. But if you're talking to your friends, if you're talking, maybe your parents, siblings about your spouse in a negative way, that's gossip and it's never, never helpful.

And in fact, it's always toxic to your marriage and the people that you gossip. So don't become complacent. Don't become comfortable, constantly be challenging yourself. Get outside of yourself. Don't just stay cooped up, watching Netflix every night, go out with friends, volunteer, do whatever it is you did before to keep growing the last tip for you guys.

Learn to solve conflict in a healthy. Way, and this can be so hard. This is one of the biggest challenges that bridge I have faced. And she would tell you that right now, too. One of the biggest things, when it comes to conflict is listening, seeking to understand the other person before you try to be understood.

That can be so hard, especially if emotions are high, but try to detach emotionally, take a step back emotionally. So you can actually use your mind and you can respond in the right way to this person because I've been there. Guys. I'm ashamed to say it, but. The moment when I'm emotional, when I've been angry, you know, I'll say something I regret and, you know, bridge.

And I have been really good with apologizing to each other, asking for forgiveness, forgiving each other, saying that we love each other and making up. And that's another essential skill in solving conflict. Right? You need to be able to apologize to ask for forgiveness that takes humility, but then you also need to be able to forgive you.

Can't just hold these grudges over the other person. And so those are two really important ingredients as well, but. When it comes to the conflict, usually there's something going on underneath the surface, right? You may be fighting about this or that, but in reality, there may be something else that happened, you know, a month ago, a year ago, that's really eating away at this person.

So try to get to the root of that in the tense moment may not be the right time to do that, but try to understand really what's going on from their point of view, it takes. Stepping into their shoes, but you won't regret it. It will bring more peace into your relationship. It'll help you solve conflict better and even avoid conflict to begin with another thing to keep in mind when solving conflict is just know what the other person wants.

That's something that I learned from an FBI hostage negotiator. Chris Voss is his name and he literally would be negotiating. These people who were robbing banks or taking someone hostage. And he knew how to talk to them in such a way that would get them to trust him that would get them to give him what he wanted, which was to free the hostages and to, you know, ultimately surrender, um, by giving them what they wanted.

In whatever he could do, right. He couldn't give them everything they wanted, but he first tried to understand what do they want. He tried to build trust with them. And by doing that, eventually he was able to get what he wanted, which was everyone walking away safely and the other person ultimately being arrested.

And so just to understand in those tense conversations, you can just ask yourself the question, okay, what do they want right now? And sometimes it'll be as simple as they just want an apology. They don't want an excuse. They don't want an explanation, even if it's a warranted explanation, right. Even if you have something to say, that's worth saying, it may not be the right moment to do that.

And so just understand what the person wants in that moment and realize that you may just need to take a break if things are really tense. So, you know, give each other some space. Maybe you go on a run or you spend some time, you know, getting some things done. Or maybe you sleep on it. If you have to, you know, typically you'd wanna avoid doing that.

You wanna solve these things before you go to bed, but sometimes you can't. And so in that case, when you need to take a break, that can be frustrating for people who are aggressive problem solvers like me for me, when Bridget would say, you know, I don't wanna talk about this right now. I was afraid that we would never resolve.

And I was afraid that it would escalate and that we would end up being really angry at each other. And our marriage would end up to repeat what I saw in my parents' marriage. And I was scared of that. And so our counselor helped us realize that, okay, you can take a break. It's okay. Just make sure that you communicate.

When you're gonna talk about that thing again, and it could be as quick as 15 minutes and maybe as long as like 24 hours, I wouldn't push it out much further than that, but make sure there's some sort of a plan. And if you need to put it on your calendar, it's just important that both of you, especially the one who's more of the type, a aggressive problem solver that.

They know. Okay, we are going to actually talk about this. It isn't just gonna slide away, cuz like I mentioned, it's so unhealthy to have conflict and to never resolve it, that stuff is just gonna build up underneath the surface. It's gonna fester. It's gonna grow. It's gonna get bigger. And one day it's just gonna explode.

And so if you don't deal with it now you're gonna have to deal with it later. So deal with it. All right guys. I hope all that was helpful. Again, we're not experts on this stuff. We just wanted to share our experience and the things that we've learned along the way. And so thank you so much for, for hearing us out.

If you wanna get in touch with Bridget, I know, uh, last episode, we didn't give her contact information, but if you wanna get in touch with her, you can email her@bridgetrestoredministry.com. Now I'm gonna spell out Bridget for you, cuz I know there's a few different spellings. Her name is spelled B R. I G I D again, that's B R I G.

ID restored ministry.com. Just email her. And she'll be happy to, uh, to get back with you and also throw her social media handles in the show notes. And you guys are always welcome to, to contact me whenever you need to. You can contact me at Joey. At restored ministry.com. Again, that's Joey, a restored ministry.com in closing out the show.

My challenge to you is whatever stood out to you in this episode, talk to your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your fiance, or your spouse about it. Have a good conversation with them about it. Maybe send them this episode and have them listen to it and ask some good questions in that conversation. If you need to write them out beforehand, do it share your thoughts, share your feelings about the things that we talked about in this episode, and then pick one thing.

That you heard in this episode and focus on it and execute on it. And you know, if it's some sort of a goal set a deadline for it, if it's a habit, keep track of it, see how well you're doing with developing that good habit, that virtue. And that's really it guys. It's just all about taking these ideas and not just thinking about it and are talking about them, but actually putting them into action.

The resources mentioned are the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 24. Again, that's restored ministry.com/two four. Thanks again for listening. If this has been useful, please subscribe and share this podcast with someone you know, who could use it. Always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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My Parents' Divorce Made Me Feel Abandoned

It's really affected my friendships. It really caused some abandonment issues since my mom left us when I was younger. With my friends, I get really hurt if they have other friends, or if I have a fight or argument with them I get really scared for the future of the friendship.

Most of my friendships have failed and when they have, it took a big toll on me. To this day, I have very few friends and it’s hard for me to connect with people because of insecurities. I don't want temporary friendships. For me, it’s important to have true bonds with people.

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6 minute read

The story below is from an anonymous author, written at 15 years old. Her parents’ divorced when she was 4 or 5, then again at 14. She gave permission for this story to be shared.

HER STORY

We were a pretty normal middle-class family. We attended a local Baptist church. We had just recently moved from California to Oregon to be near family. At the time, my dad was working a lot to support my family. He was working a lot of graveyard shifts and sleeping when he could. My mom was staying home and taking care of my three older brothers and me.

Within my mom’s boredom and loneliness - at least that's her excuse - while my dad was at work she would lock herself in our office and go on the computer to play this online “adult game.” She would chat with men on there and flirt with them. She also talked bad about my dad to her friends on there and online male acquaintances.

My dad eventually looked through the computer‘s search history. He found the game and what she was spending hours on. He found the messages to these men. (God, when I write this out I realize how dumb this is....) He confronted her about it and he really wanted to work it out and go to counseling. She rejected his offer and she packed her things. She left for a few months, leaving my whole family behind.

My dad was left to support us on his own. Within months, they finalized the divorce. I was with my dad most of the time and with my mom every other weekend. It is still like this to this day.

Both of them remarried. My dad married my stepmom, whom I cherish very much. She has three boys too, so they are my brothers as well.

My mom married my stepdad. I didn't really have much a relationship with him but he wasn't a bad guy. He has a son that is a year younger than me. He was my best friend. I love him very much and I always looked forward to seeing him every other weekend and chatting about life. We were very close. Yes, we had our occasional arguments just like all siblings do. If you've noticed I am talking in the past tense... My mom initiated the divorce with my stepdad because he was having trouble with alcohol. There was no physical abuse, but he would be a real jerk when drinking. That is one of the many reasons she had for the divorce.

Last December, they got divorced and we moved out into a tiny apartment. It’s just my 16-year-old brother and me because my other two brothers are in the Air Force. My mom put a restraining order against my stepdad. That means I can't talk to my younger stepbrother - I am not allowed to see him till next December and I really miss him. He was my best friend and that really sucks to not see him. He was the good that came from my dad and mom’s divorce.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

Well, at the time I was quite young and didn't really understand it. I don't remember it very well but I have a few vivid memories of the situation. But I remember being confused and thinking, "Where's Mommy?" But I am very thankful for my Dad, how he handled it and supported my brothers and me.

But with my mom and my stepdad’s divorce, I feel very resentful toward my mom because I feel like she is being really selfish about it and she doesn't care about how I miss my brother. (I don't want to use names so that's why I'm using pronouns.) Don't get me wrong, I love my mom very much, we just have a very complicated relationship. But my stepdad and mom’s divorce hit really hard since I'm older and can remember it. It’s definitely made me sad and unmotivated. Not exactly depressed but it’s hard since it happened pretty recently.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

It's really affected my friendships. It really caused some abandonment issues since my mom left us when I was younger. With my friends, I get really hurt if they have other friends, or if I have a fight or argument with them I get really scared for the future of the friendship.

Most of my friendships have failed and when they have, it took a big toll on me. To this day, I have very few friends and it’s hard for me to connect with people because of insecurities. I don't want temporary friendships. For me, it’s important to have true bonds with people.

My best friend is amazing, Godly, and a great friend but she has a very normal Christian life, so she doesn't really understand but she tries her best. And since my mom and stepdad’s divorce just happened and I am still a teen, I'm not really sure what to say because it’s still going on...

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

There is the cliché, "You are not alone." Which is very true. But one thing that has really helped me was this: We all have a story.

We all have things that happened to us in adolescence that affected us in a negative way. Some may be bigger than others. But what matters is that you can either learn from your parents’ mistakes, or you don't and instead act out upon them.

Some of the most troubled people had a trauma they experienced earlier in life. They didn't get the help they needed and they changed in a negative way rather than positive. So I guess what I'm saying is that you have the choice to choose your path in life.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED AND SEPARATED FAMILIES

I believe that although the divorce and separation rates are very high, I don't think it should be normalized. Nowadays it’s easy to just look over the fact that someone is a child of divorce/separation. I think that they all need to be given a safe place to be heard and share their story. Because processing it on our own is not good.

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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The Key to Ultimate Wholeness

Your life doesn't have to follow your parent's decisions or experiences. You have the incredible opportunity to choose your own path, write your own life's story, and paint your life's own spectacular and individual picture.

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8 minute read

This story was written by Raschelle at 55 years old. Her parents divorced when she was only 1 year old. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

I have no personal memory of my parent's separation and subsequent divorce. What information I do have, I have been told over the years by both parents, my older sister who was 6 years old at the time, and my grandparents.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

This is an interesting question when your parents separate and divorce before you have the ability to actually remember the specifics. I literally grew up with divorced parents being my norm even though in 1965 it was not the world's norm.

I remember recognizing and observing my family was different than others around me when I was about the age of 4 years old. However, I did not have the maturity of thought to understand exactly what this meant or to put it into context. Therefore, at times I felt afraid, not because each of my parents did not do the best they were individually able to do to offer us security and stability, but because I didn't understand all the uncertainty around me.

I learned my Dad would leave and come back by observation because I could not understand, at this age, what "I will see you in two weekends" actually meant. Young children don't have a context of time. Therefore, I gained confidence and trust observing my parents following through on commitments and through promises kept. As I aged and matured, my feelings changed.

At times I felt feelings of abandonment by my Dad; feelings of frustration because I wanted a "normal" or intact family; feelings of guilt as if my parent's felt I loved one more than the other; feelings of not being enough because I obviously wasn't enough to stop my Dad from pursuing affairs with multiple women over the course of my lifetime. (At the time of his death my Dad was married to his sixth wife.)

And yet beyond my feelings of confusion, hurt, abandonment, frustration, insignificance, among others, as I aged and matured in thought and feeling, I came to understand, believe, and feel, given the circumstances surrounding my parent's separation and subsequent divorce, my Mother made the only decision she could have made at the time to save me and my sister from a life of inconsistency, instability and lacking in security.

This understanding came through first, my faith and trust in a God, Heavenly Father, who does not abandon us, loves us completely just as we are and right where we are, even in the midst of heartache, disappointment, trauma, and great loss. I also embraced therapy while in college. I had a deep desire to unpack what I had stuffed inside my heart for so many years so I could reach a place of wholeness and healing.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

I honestly believe it impacted me most during the time just after I moved to college. I spent my childhood concerned about things children should not have to be concerned about. I would like to reiterate, this was not because my parents lacked the desire to give us the best they could, it was, I believe, more because divorce was NOT the norm at this time and there was still so little understood about its impact on children. I am confident my parents each did the best they individually knew how to do.

I say individually because they each grew up in very different environments. Yet, they each were raised in intact homes themselves. So, it wasn't until I left home to attend college, that I allowed myself to fully comprehend and begin to unpack the magnitude of my parent's divorce, our blended families on both sides, and the impact all these thoughts, feelings, and experiences, spoken and unspoken, had on my life.

It was very heavy and it was also the first time I realized this could and most likely would affect my ability to have a stable marriage and family if I did not choose to go there and unpack everything I had stuffed deep inside over my life's first 18 years.

College was a struggle for me academically. Not because I was not smart or capable of being successful in the classroom, more because of the weight of emotions I felt yet buried because to voice them might cause the ones I loved so much more pain and heartache. Things a child should never have to worry about, yet most Children of divorce do. In some ways when divorce occurs in a child's infancy, I believe a certain emotional innocence is forever lost for that child.

And I also want to be clear with this, it is often NOT the intention of the parents for this to occur, it is because of the emotional, physical, spiritual and mental immaturity of the child. Infants grow up in an environment where the opportunity to bond equally with both parents is not possible. Bonding is critical for the overall health and wellness of children. However, it doesn't mean it can not occur it still can, it will just occur differently and over time rather than being an innate part of an infant's experience.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

First, I am so sorry. My heart aches with and for you. Nothing that you feel is wrong. Your feelings are valid and real and you were created on purpose and for an incredible purpose! You are seen, you are known, you matter, and you are loved!

No one else fully determines the course of your life... you do! Your life doesn't have to follow your parent's decisions or experiences. You have the incredible opportunity to choose your own path, write your own life's story, and paint your life's own spectacular and individual picture. You did not cause your parent's separation or divorce.

The key to ultimate wholeness is forgiveness. It is not always easy and it does not necessarily happen in one moment, it is a process. Sometimes, you don't forgive for others, you forgive for the wholeness and freedom it gives you. In some situations, which was true in my experience, my Dad never felt he did anything he needed forgiveness from or ever apologized for. So there was not a big forgiveness conversation, I made a decision to do so for me. And, in doing so, I forged a deeper love for and understanding of my Dad. I also found and continue to experience joy in my life.

My mother, on the other hand, has lived much of her life feeling guilt over the effects of my parent's divorce on her children. This breaks my heart for her. I pray she can let go of her guilt. I pray she comes to the place where she believes me when I tell her I honestly wouldn't change the circumstances of my life because they brought me to where I am today, and honestly, I like who I am and I love myself in a healthy and whole manner.

God knew I needed both of my parents to be who I am today. I believe by grace, I was given the best parts of who they both were and are. It has been a process to reach this place in my life, however, I am living proof you can find, live, experience, and celebrate all the very best life has to give! It's a choice. Having the choice is also having the power to write your own story and paint your own picture!

We all have choices we must embrace them. My hope for all children of divorce is that you realize you have a voice, you deserve to be heard and listened to, your experiences, feelings, and thoughts matter.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED OR SEPARATED FAMILIES

1. The stigma the world places on children of divorce needs to be unveiled and changed. We are all members of this silent club none of us asked to join. We were enlisted in it by our parent's choices.

2. Teens and young adults need the tools, opportunities, and freedom to unpack the emotions, feelings, and experiences they have stuffed inside. It is not an easy journey but it is a journey worth taking as the end result is wholeness and health, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically. It is not a sprint, there are no shortcuts, it is a marathon.

3. The Act and Gift of Forgiveness needs to be better explained and understood. It is a process and understanding of what this process looks like and feels like brings healing, freedom, and wholeness.

4. Help in understanding each sibling in a family will have their own unique and individual experience that may or may not be similar to one another. This is key in forging stronger bonds, and in understanding and appreciating one another's own stories. It gives validation to how each person's experiences, memories, and feelings combine together and ultimately paint the picture of your family.

5. More tools need to be available to help teens and young adults realize they don't have to live in a continued pattern of chaos and uncertainty which tends to be the norm. They can find comfort and familiarity living in a place of peace, calm, and security. These things can feel and be your norm, not just a sometimes reality.

6. Living a life of Wholeness, Health, Forgiveness, and Joy are choices we choose to embrace! They are possible even in the midst of the most heartbreaking of circumstances. We choose our outcomes no one else has the right to determine this for us!

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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#023: Tips for Engagement, Wedding, and 1st Year of Marriage - Part 1 | Brigid Pontarelli

Getting engaged and married is exciting! But it can also be overwhelming, especially if you come from a broken home. Joey and his wife, Brigid, share their story and what they wish someone told them about engagement, the wedding, and the first year of marriage.

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Getting engaged and married is exciting! But it can also be overwhelming, especially if you come from a broken home. Joey and his wife, Brigid, share their story and what they wish someone told them about engagement, the wedding, and the first year of marriage. 

By listening, you’ll hear this and more:

  • Brigid talks about dating and marrying someone from a broken home - plus advice for people like her

  • How to keep building your friendship in a romantic relationship

  • A tactic to avoid allowing the wedding to dominant your relationship

  • How to handle money - one of the top reasons for divorce

  • Common money traps couples fall into

Part 1 of 2. Listen to Part 2 here.

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

Special treat for you guys today. My wife, Bridget actually joins me on the show. We thought it'd be useful to talk about what we wish someone would've told us about engagement, the wedding and the first year of marriage. And so in this episode we just share experience and some of the practical advice that we've learned along the way.

And so by listening, what you'll get out of it is you're gonna hear Bridget briefly share her experience dating and marrying someone who comes from a broken home who comes from a divorced family. And she mentions some of the struggles that came along with that. And she gives some advice for any of you out there who are like her, who come from an intact family, but you're dating or marrying someone who comes from a broken home.

We talk about some good things to know about engagement, like how continuing to grow and to build your friendship is so important. For the success of your marriage. We encourage you guys to keep dating, especially going on dates where you don't talk about wedding planning at all. We touched on some conversations that you really need to have during your engagement.

And hopefully even sooner, we get into money cuz as most of you guys know, money fights are one of the leading causes of divorce. And so it's so important as a couple to get on the same page when it comes to money. And so we talk about how to create a plan for your money and get on the path to financial freedom.

So that money isn't a stressor for you and your relationship. And we share kind of some of the screw up some of the struggles that we've had to face as a couple when dealing with money. And we touched on some common money failures that couples need to watch out. And if money is tight for you, if you're planning a wedding, I know money's usually tight.

We just give some affordable date ideas that you can use. And we also share our story, how we met, how we built our relationship, how we ended up getting engaged, married, talk a little bit about, uh, our journey since then, too. And so my hope for you is that hearing our story. Gives you hope that even if you come from a broken home, you can go on and build a marriage and a family.

You're not doomed to repeat your parents' mistakes. You can write your own story. And so if any of that sounds useful to you, keep listening,

welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel hold again. I'm your host, Joey. Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is. 23. And we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. The research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce, our experience in our romantic relationships.

Why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous ways in our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on how to find and build authentic love.

Now, this episode is part one of two. And in this episode, we're gonna focus on engagement. In part two, we'll discuss the wedding, including wedding planning and some of the challenges that you're gonna face. If you come from a broken home and we'll get into some good things to know about the first year of marriage, too.

So subscribe in your podcast app to make sure you don't miss part two. Before we get into the conversation a little bit about my wife, Bridget Pelli was born and raised in Philly. She comes from an Irish family. She's one of six kids. So big family. Her parents have been married 41 years. Really beautiful.

She's a pediatric nurse, which means she works with kids. She's worked as an ICU nurse and a PACU nurse, which basically means she does surgery, river recovery. She works with the kids after they come out of surgery. She went to Penn. For nursing, but after a year she decided that it wasn't the right fit for her.

So she transferred to Franciscan, university of Steubenville, where she graduated with her, bachelor's in nursing. And that's actually where we met. Bridget is a proud godmother to Maggie and aunt, to Jack and Marty. We love those kids. Bridge loves the beach, traveling, coffee, relaxing, sleep, and sports.

She's a diehard Philly fan. And honestly, sometimes I'm not sure if she loves me or, or the Eagles more in all fairness, the fact that I'm a Chicago fan who cheers for Chicago teams like the black Hawks and she being a Philly fan has definitely brought some struggles into our marriage, but. All that aside, jokes aside.

I'm really excited for you to hear from my bride. So let's not win any longer. Here's my conversation with Bridget bridge. Welcome to the show. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's great. Is it weird to do a podcast with your husband? For sure. Yes. . All right. We'll try to make this as normal as possible. We wanted to share our story with you guys just briefly.

We'll go through it. And then, uh, we wanna talk about dating, get into engagement the wedding day, and then talk about the first year of marriage a little bit as well. So we met, uh, at college. We actually met by working a similar job on campus. And from there we just developed a friendship. I remember. Uh, running into bridge.

I was headed to like our student union center and I didn't really know her too well. We had worked together, but, uh, that was kind of the spark that just ended up building a friendship. And from there spend more time together. An attraction grew my initial attraction. I'm interested to hear what you have to say, but my initial attraction, her wasn't actually physical.

Although I think she's beautiful. It was more emotional. I just thought she was a really good person and cool person, someone to get along with really easily and, uh, enjoyed our conversations. As I got to know her more, I became more physically attracted to her as well. So that was kind of the beginning of our friendship.

What, what would you add, babe? Yeah, I mean, for me, I saw you as a friend first and then over time. Yeah. Things started to happen and I was like, oh, maybe he is interested in me. And, uh, one thing led to another and yeah, we started to get to know each other, started hanging out, met each other's friends, and then he asked me on a date.

So are you sure you didn't like me at first? Uh, no comment no, no, no. I think it was actually gradual, right? Yeah. For both of us, it, it was a gradual yep. Mm-hmm yeah. Which was different than some of my relationships in the past one in particular, I know, uh, the physical attraction was kind of the initial impetus for the relationship and it didn't end up working out of course, but, uh, this was different.

So I think it can work either way, but I definitely, uh, appreciated the fact that it was more of an emotional attraction that then developed into physical attraction. So the first time we actually went out was our senior year dance. And that was like towards the end of. Time at college. It was what, two weeks before the end of college before graduation.

Yeah. Two weeks before our graduation, we went to a bow in Pittsburgh on the water and, uh, yeah, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. So we went to the small school in Eastern Ohio called Franciscan university of Steubenville and Bridget studied nursing. I studied finance and uh, yeah, like I said, we both did a similar job on campus and that was how we met.

So we go to this dance and by that point I was getting more and more interested in Bridget. I actually was away at a business conference and the dance was like on a Friday night and earlier, uh, that day I drove three hours away with one of my buddies to a business conference, but I wanted to go to the dance so badly with bridge that, uh, I ended up driving three hours to Pittsburgh from the conference that night, and then I drove three hours back.

So I literally drove six hours just to go to. Dance with this girl that I liked. And so I was impressed. Yeah. From there, it, uh, it developed, so we went on our first date a week before graduation, not something I recommend, but ended up working out for us. And then we both went home, Bridget to Philly, me, Chicago.

I actually went off to Italy to teach English over there for two months. And we weren't really sure what would happen. We had a talk beforehand before heading home, but up to that point, we were just going on dates. We didn't really define the relationship, but we both agreed that we wanted to see where this would go.

And so we agreed to stay in touch and kind of see what happened. Like what, what did you think would happen? Yeah, I mean, it was, it was definitely a overwhelming time in our life with graduation and moving on and moving home. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day though, Joey was very intentional with me and I definitely appreciated that.

And so as we went into summer, I felt comfortable going forward. Yeah, we were kind of in this weird limbo. We had, again, gone on dates, but we weren't technically dating. So we were still building our friendship from afar yet. It was clearly more than friends. So we were kind of in this weird limbo, but once I got over to Italy, I kept in touch with bridge.

We would text, we would FaceTime. And I actually thought because of the distance, we may just grow apart. That's not what I wanted, but I thought that may happen. But we actually got closer through that experience and it was awesome. So we built our friendship from afar, from a distance. And then I came back to the states and bridged actually came on vacation with my family, which was a brave thing to do.

Then after that, I went to Philly with her to spend some time with her and her family. And that's when we started our relationship. We became boyfriend and girlfriend. So then I took a job in Chicago and Bridget, uh, was in Philly and she was looking for a nursing job. And so we did a year of long distance.

And eventually after you know, about a year, I moved to Philly, got an apartment out there and, uh, I was close to bridge, so we we're able to see each other a lot. And that was good. Then a, a year after that kind of fast forwarding through our story, we got engaged and I won't go into that story, but basically little scavenger hunt.

And at the end with me, and I asked her to marry me then, uh, after that we moved to Denver. So we, we came and lived out in Denver. Uh, before we got married, kind of the stars aligned, there was a job opportunity. One of her friends needed a roommate and things just ended up working out. And so we, uh, we moved out to Denver.

We had always. Talked about different places that we might wanna live. If we were to get married and Colorado was one of them that we both agreed on. Each of us kind of had preferences in other states, but that, that was one that we both agreed upon. So we thought we're young, you know, we're not married yet.

We don't have kids. So we might as well kind of adventure a little bit. And so we came out to Denver. So then we got married in Philly, in April. And after that, we went on a honeymoon to the Canary islands, to, to Europe. If you don't know where the Canary islands are, they're off the coast of Africa.

Actually, it sounds super bougie, but, um, it, it actually was pretty affordable compared to like some of the other options and we saved up money for it. And it was, it was an awesome, awesome trip. I don't think I'd, I've ever been really to an island. I guess I went to ly years ago in college, but, uh, but was that the first time you had been to an island.

Yeah, first name. So that was, that was wonderful. But we wanna get into talking about engagement. Talk about the wedding day. Talk a little bit about the first year of marriage, but before we get to that, we wanna touch on dating really briefly. And this could probably be its own episode. And the last few episodes, if you've been listening, you know, have been about dating and finding your spouse.

But, uh, Bridget, I wanna talk you with you a little bit about as someone who comes from, uh, an intact family, I wanna ask you what it was like to date someone from a broken family. And so what was that experience like for you? Yeah, so a little bit of background is I actually knew Joey's brother first, before I met Joey.

And so I think in the back of my mind, I remembered hearing that their parents were divorced. And as I got to know Joey Moore, I could tell that it was something that was a sensitive topic. And so I knew not to ask questions and press him about his family. For myself being patient with him was huge. I let him share what he wanted in his own time.

And I feel like that was huge for us. He was then able to open up to me about his family when he felt more comfortable with it. And I definitely appreciated that as time went on and we, you know, were dating, you know, months into our relationship. I, I did feel more comfortable than asking Joey questions about his family.

And then he, you know, he was vulnerable with me and he was opening up to me about his past, about his family, about current situations. And I definitely appreciated that for sure. And, uh, and one more thing to know about my experience is that when we were ready to get engaged, I was the one that was ready first and I we've talked about this, but there, there was fear on his end and I, I had to be patient with that as well.

No, that's a good point. Was the idea of marriage scary to you too? Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, knowing you're gonna be with someone for the rest of your life. That's what you are agreeing to when you say yes, but at the end of the day, I, my parents now have been married for 41 years. And I grew up with that.

So you had that example. Yeah, definitely. So we'll talk about some of the struggles we faced a little bit later in the show, but just briefly when it came to dating, what were some of the struggles that you experienced or saw in me throughout the time we dated? Yeah. I mean, I, I could tell that you were struggling with something struggling.

I, I believed it was, you know, about your family, but I, I didn't know exactly what it was and I wanted to be patient with you sharing to me, you know, what was going on. So I think that was hard. Just not knowing. Yeah. And another thing is that I just couldn't relate to, to Joey, to his background. When we, you know, would visit families.

It, um, another struggle is that it, it would be hard to make time for each side of the family when visiting, um, especially right now, when we, both of us, we don't live by each of our families. So then that time is kind of cut in half. And then, you know, for Joey's side, it's even cut in half again. So it's always been something that we've struggled with and we're still trying to navigate that area.

Yeah. That's something we realized last Christmas and new year's that we were visiting my family and we spent some time with my dad, spent some time with my mom and it really cut the time in half because, you know, we were trying to spend time with both of them where normally, if you come from an intact family, you spend time with your parents together and therefore you have more time to do other things like sea.

You know, relatives or maybe friends of yours, especially if you're traveling your hometown. And so you really do have half as much time, or at least less time than you normally would would, and that's a struggle. And so just finishing this up bridge, what advice would you have for someone like you who's dating someone who comes from a broken home?

Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is just patience, patience with your significant other about them. Just sharing their story with you. And to know that at first it may just be pieces at a time, but then over time they will open up to you as they feel more comfortable. And the second thing that I would say is to listen because by listening.

they know that you care for them and that you're there. And one more thing to add. Typically, children of divorce struggle more in relationships. We come into relationships with a lot of anxiety, with a lot of fear and a lot of just different struggles, whether it's opening up or trusting someone because likely our trust in our parents was broken through the whole process of separation and divorce.

And so it can be really difficult for us to, to learn, to open up, to take our guard down, to put our shield away. In a relationship. And so, like you said, bridge takes a ton of patience. And just to understand that they're just kind of bringing this into the relationship, not necessarily by choice, it's just their experience.

And so the patience and listening, I think are, are great pieces of advice, but almost like expecting that to happen and expecting them to have struggles with intimacy. And some people may struggle more than others. I I've seen that even through this work, even through restored that some people are better adapted to love and build a relationship and a marriage, and then others really struggle for one reason or another in relationships.

And so, regardless of where, you know, you're a significant other, if you're listening to this and you're dating or engaged, or marriage is someone who comes from a broken home, just realize their experience may be unique and. Than what we're talking about, but most often the struggles related to opening up to trusting, to intimacy, to just relationships in general, um, are definitely there.

Yeah. And just one last thing to add to my experience with dating Joey is that as we dated certain situations would come up and they would be triggers for Joey and Joey's story. And I did not know about them until, you know, until it happened. And so that led to us growing in communication about different situations.

Yeah. And, and the, like you said, that led to us growing. They could really be opportunities for growth. If you learn how to handle 'em the right way and you won't succeed in every instance. And that's okay. There's gonna be times where you're triggered in one way or another, and maybe you get angry or you kind of shell up and pull away that's gonna happen.

That the goal of course always is kind of to revisit those things. To talk about them and to make sure that you both are on the same page, so that if anything like that happens again, you'll be ready. Both of you will be ready to kind of tackle that situation. That's what we learned over the years, but it certainly was not like a perfect performance.

It was something that we learned over time, mainly through messing it up. Yeah. And I mean, at the end of the day, marriage is two imperfect people trying to love each other perfectly. And so you are going to mess up, you're going to have failures, you're going to have arguments, but it's how you grow from them and how you learn to love each other in those moments.

And I've heard it said that marriage isn't about funding, like the perfect person, but rather about funding the right person for you and loving them in all their imperfections. And so it really is all about. when you fall, when you fight, when you have conflict repairing, that's kind of a funny word, but it's really about repairing the relationship and forgiving and getting on the same page and something that Jason Everett says a lot is, you know, there's three phrases that married couples need to know.

It's I love you. I'm sorry. And I forgive you and I'd say that's absolutely true in our experience that being ready to forgive, being ready to ask for forgiveness and just ready to express love, even through difficult times, just goes such a long way. So I'm sure we could talk about that for a long time about dating and what it's like dating someone who comes from a broken home.

And we really need to do a separate episode on that, but we wanna get into engagement. So we wanna talk about what it's like to, to be engaged. Some of the things that. We wish we would've known. And some just tips that we've learned through our experience that may be helpful to you. You know, a lot of these tips are very practical.

They're not super deep. So the first one is, uh, prepared to be exhausted on your engagement day. It is tiring when you get engaged from the guy's perspective, especially you're thinking about this, you're planning it, you know, you got the ring, you're keeping that a secret from someone that takes a lot of maneuvering and then you're planning this whole proposal.

And that takes a lot of energy. And then you're executing on the proposal. Sounds like a military operation. Uh, and then from there you're announcing to everyone. So it's a lot that goes into it. And man, I was exhausted. Yeah. I think that was the most exhaustive I've ever seen Joey before was on our engagement day that evening and that someone who.

Really ever has a problem with having enough energy. But that day, man, I was exhausted, but don't get me wrong. It's super exciting. Yeah, it is. The thing that I could think was most exhausting was so after we got engaged after did the little scavenger hunt, I asked her to marry me. Uh, we eventually had a party with her family.

I arranged it beforehand. So we were talking to them and kinda celebrating. And you know, my nerves were sky high. And after the fact they came down and that was tiring in itself, but then talking to everyone and calling our family, cuz again, I was living in Philly at the time. My family's in Chicago. My friends are really all over the country.

So we were just announcing it to everyone, to my friends, to Bridget's friends, to family members, cousins, and man that was tiring. So just what we're saying here, be prepared to be exhausted. On your engagement day, especially if you choose to announce it in more of a personal way by FaceTiming everyone.

And if you wanna save yourself some time, then, uh, just create like a social post and just say we're engaged and that'll probably be less exhausting. The next tip is to adopt the mindset that it's still a discernment. And by discernment, we mean, it's still a process of choosing of deciding if this is the right thing for you, if this is the right person for you.

And I think a lot of people assume that just because you're engaged, you're gonna end up getting married, but that doesn't always happen that way. It really is a, a different phase of your discernment of figuring out if this is the right person for you. And so don't lose. Keep that in mind. And if there is a reason where you think that, okay, this isn't the right person for me, or we should at least delay this that's okay.

I think it's extremely courageous to delay or call off a wedding, uh, because there's something big in the relationship that needs to be handled first or something's going on maybe in your life. And of course this needs to be balanced with the fact that children of divorce. Typically we have a lot of anxiety and fear when it comes to relationships.

And so we always need to kind of get to the root of our anxiety, our fear, cuz if you feel anxiety, if you feel fear. Coming close to the wedding day. Don't just assume that, oh, this isn't the right person. It may be the right person. You just may have a lot of anxiety and fear about relationships and that's okay.

So relying on mentors, relying on family and friends, talking through those situations, writing about them can be really helpful to really uncover, okay. What's the root of this fear, the root of the anxiety. Uh, but in some cases there may really be issues in your relationship that would prevent you from moving forward with getting married.

And there's nothing. Wrong with that. Sure. It might be a little bit embarrassing. Sure. It might be a hard thing to do, but it's much better to call off a wedding than to marry someone who you don't think you should be with and then get divorced down the road. The next tip is to build your friendship.

What would you say about this bridge? Yeah, I mean the basis of any marriage is really a friendship as your feelings fade. The thing that is left is your friendship. So working on that is so incredibly important and your feelings will fade. It doesn't mean you won't have feelings at all, but it's not gonna be the excitement, the initial excitement of a dating relationship, it's gonna become a more mature emotion.

And so we need to really learn how to love in the midst of that. CS Lewis had an awesome analogy. He said the posture of friendship is standing side by side. With your friend looking out at the world, pursuing a common purpose. Whereas the posture of lovers is facing each other, looking into each other's eyes.

And so you could have both, but the point here is that you really wanna continue to build your friendship. It's so easy to just focus on the romance, to focus on the feelings, to focus on the affection. But what you wanna do is still build that friendship. And one way that you can do this is just set aside time, where you're not being all cuddly.

You're not being all romantic, but you're just kind of acting as friends. You're doing things together that you enjoy doing with your friends or that you enjoyed before. Maybe you started dating and you're having good conversations, right? It doesn't always need to be super intense romantic, but just have good conversations like you would have with any of your friends.

And I know sometimes people say that you need to be friends with someone before you start dating before you get engaged and or married. And I think there's a lot of value to that. If you don't have that in your relationship, if you weren't friends beforehand, then I really do think you can build your friendship in the midst of your dating relationship or in your engagement, or even when you're married.

In fact, you really need to, and you have to. And so look for those opportunities to build your friendship. Look for those opportunities to, again, not focus so much on the romance and the affection, but just on becoming better friends curious. So what would you say that we did to build a friendship when we were engaged?

I think one of the things I've heard, it said that men bond through doing things through experiences and women typically bond through conversations. And I think it goes both ways. That's a huge generalization, but I found that too absolutely true for me. And so when we did things that one or both of us enjoyed.

I felt like our friendship grew like going to a baseball game or going on a hike in the mountains or doing something adventurous like that things that I love, things that, you know, you love, or at least you're interested in enough to, to do for me. I think that's when our friendship really grew. Again. It wasn't about, you know, being affectionate.

It wasn't about the romance necessarily though. There was a place for that, of course. But I think doing those activities together and, and the conversations we had too, what would you add? Yeah, no, I, I think that's right. Um, I think we shared a lot of experiences together. Like you said, things that we both enjoy.

Yeah. I mean, we both love sports and so that's actually something that we did when we were getting to know each other. We played volleyball and we loved it. And so. I think that's important. I think it's important to kind of go back to your roots and remember what you used to do when you first met, when you were friends in the beginning, or, you know, when you had a crash on each other, what were the things that you enjoyed doing?

Yeah. Those common interests. Yeah. You played volleyball in high school and then a little bit in college and I kind of played sand volleyball growing up. And then in college I played club a little bit and yeah, so we both love volleyball. So yeah. Again, those common interests I think, are really important and really help you to build your friendship and going back to something that bridge just said, encourage each other to have friendships with.

Don't become isolated. You really wanna focus on bringing people kind of into your relationship and going out and spending time with, with other friends, whether that's other couples or just single friends of yours, whatever, spend time with other people. I know wedding planning could be exhausting. And so it could be easy to just wanna like stay in and watch a movie all the time, but don't do that.

Like really make an effort to get out or have people over to spend time with them and, and have some good conversations and build those friendships too, because the more you build friendships with others, I've seen like genuine, good, authentic friendships, the better that your relationship will get as well.

Yeah. And like Joey mentioned earlier, your engagement is still a discernment. And so another great way to continue to discern your relationship is to have your friends meet your significant other and to get to know them and. Get feedback from them and for them to see you guys together and to get their input of what, if they see any red flags, if they see something that, you know, maybe you're, you don't see yourself.

So I think it's incredibly important to be around your friends, both of your friends. Yeah. No, that's a great point. Love can certainly be blinding. And so it's good to get other people's perspectives and feedback, and it's good to just see each other in different scenarios too, in different situations.

Cuz if you're always, you know, spending time at one of your apartments or houses, then you might not really get a good idea of how the other person would act in different scenarios. And so it's good to get outta the house. It's good to spend time with each other in different environments. Just kind of see how things go.

The next step for engagement is to. Dating. Something that I've always loved is that we plan our dates each month. Um, usually it's Joey, but it's usually, you know, once a week, once every two weeks. And we just make sure that we set aside that time to actually go on a date and this doesn't always involve going out to dinner, going out to a movie, spending money, you can be creative, but just setting aside that time, especially when both of your schedules may be so busy and hectic and chaotic with wedding planning.

It's so important to set aside that time. And we'll talk about some creative dates that you can go on that won't break the bank, some cheap date ideas that you can do, especially during engagement, if you're saving for your wedding and for your honeymoon and buying a house, eventually all that stuff, paying off debt.

What we're, we'll get into that in a little bit, but yeah, planning those dates, making it something that's kind of systematic has been helpful for us. I'm such a nerd. I try to be cool. I try to look cool, but I'm really a nerd at, at the core and, uh, every month. Well, uh, I have a reminder, that'll pop up on my phone for me to, to plan our dates.

And part of the reason some couples do like, uh, one night a week is there like date night. And I wish we could do that, but Bridget's a pediatric nurse and her schedule changes every week. So we don't have a consistent schedule where we could do one night a week. So we just plan it out at the start of every month.

I get that reminder of my phone and I plan out the dates and I, when I plan them on, when I put 'em on the schedule, I don't always maybe have an idea of exactly what we'll do, but I'll have like kind of a loose idea. And, uh, I keep a list of potential dates too, when I have a good idea from another couple or wherever, I'll write it down on our list.

And then we'll, we'll go and do that one piece of advice. That was super helpful to me, that I heard from a friend is to go on dates and to promise before you go to not talk about wedding planning, This can be really, really hard, but it was so rewarding at the end of your date because it just took the stress off and it just, it made you remember why you wanna marry this person.

Yeah. Wedding planning is super stressful. It's stupid. In my opinion, I, I kind of hated it to be honest with you. It was just like all this work and build up for just one day and, and I get it, like it's important and it's beautiful and it was so fun and such a good thing, but man, it can be a lot of work and it can just consume your relationship in your life.

And so, yeah, I love that advice taking time kind of away from the wedding planning to, to just focus on your relationship. Yeah. And I would definitely do this, especially closer to the wedding, cuz I feel like you need that time to de-stress together and to talk about important things that don't involve.

Wedding planning. and don't become so focused on the wedding day that you neglect the marriage. It's so important to really keep investing in your marriage, to, to keep growing, to keep developing your relationship. And it can be totally tempting to kind of just put that on the back burner, but it's much more important to have a great marriage than to have a great wedding.

And so just make sure that your priorities are straight. And I think this is maybe a little bit harder for the ladies, if that's okay for me to say, because you know, you've been dreaming about this day since you were a little girl and you want it to be perfect, not to say the guys don't care, but I just don't know for as emotionally attached to it.

And so I think it can be really hard, but equally important to make sure that the marriage is more important than the wedding. and I think we live in a culture where people spend ridiculous amounts of money on their weddings. And then these marriages just fall apart. Like what if we took the money and the time that we spent planning the wedding and invested that in our marriage, invested that in counseling, invested that in reading good books and going on trips, doing things together, uh, as a married couple or even an engaged couple that would help you to grow.

I can't help, but think that our divorce rate in the us and around the world would be much less. The next tip is related, and that is to grow together, keep growing together and grow together in all different aspects of life, whether that's your spiritual life, emotionally, intellectually, you wanna continue growing together.

And again, not just growing in your relationship, but just growing in general. And one way to do that is just by consuming good content to strengthen your relationship and to strengthen each of you as individuals. And, you know, listen to this podcast right now is one way to do that. But another thing that's been so helpful for me and for bridge too.

And our relationship is just reading good books, reading good books. And so we just have a few that we recommend that would be good for an engaged couple to, to. And if you don't get them all done during your engagement, that's okay. These are so good books. And so, uh, we'll have all of these in the show notes.

So don't feel like you need to write them all down, but, uh, if there's one that jumps out at you, then, uh, get after it, go ahead and download the. Audible book, go ahead and, and buy it on Amazon. But, uh, but here they are. The first one is the five love languages by Dr. Gary Chapman. And we talked about that in episode 21, and really it's all about learning how to make your significant other feel loved and how to help them love you in return.

The next book is saving your marriage before it starts by Dr. Les and Dr. Leslie parrot. These are two psychologists, a man, and a woman, their husband and wife. They both have the name, Leslie, which is hilarious. And this book is all about just practical advice on how to build a strong foundation even before you're married, but after as well, there's just a lot of good stuff.

It's very research based. And so pick this one up. I highly recommend I've read this a couple times. Love it every time the next one is by the same married couple, and that is love. Talk. This is all about how to communicate well, especially in the midst of conflict, you'll learn about your personalities and kinda how you solve problems and how you're most likely to end up fighting and how to deal with that.

The next book is men, women, and the mystery of love by Dr. Edwards in this book focuses more on like the philosophical foundation of love, like explaining, like what is love to begin with, how do you love someone in an authentic way? And it also gets into the practicals. And so this one is really good. It comes from a little bit of a different angle than the other books by the psychologists, but it really gives a lot of practical advice on how to love and continue loving your spouse in marriage and not just kind of growing distant and growing apart as so many couples do.

The seven levels of intimacy by Matthew Kelly. And this book is really all about how intimacy works, how, you know, sharing a part of yourself, letting someone in how that all works. So a lot of, again, practical insights in that book as well. Next book is a severe mercy by Sheldon van Hawkin. And this one, man, such a beautiful story, a story about a couple, and it will help you really see what a strong marriage looks like.

What a really beautiful love looks like. And I think so often, especially those of us who come from broken homes, we don't really know what it looks like. And so we need to see concrete examples of good strong marriages. And this one, even though it's through a book, we'll give you an idea of how beautiful love can actually be.

And lastly, the jeweler shot by Carol VO. Uh, Carol VO Tiwa later became Pope John Paul II. And he's just this brilliant mind, this philosophical deep mind, but he was also able to make things simple and some of his writing's complex, but this one is actually a play he wrote, and it's just really a beautiful meditation on love and marriage.

So check out those books. Those will all be in the show notes. We'll tell you how to access those at the very end. One thing that can be. A struggle. I know for couples we dealt with this is reading a book together. It can be hard, especially if you're, you know, living in two separate places, it can be challenging to kind of read the book together and then make time to discuss it too.

So there's a few different options that we just thought through and laid out for you guys that may potentially work for you. So hear them out. So the first option is you can buy two books, either the physical book or the audio book, and just read them together at the same time. That's the one option.

Second option. You can buy one book and you can switch off reading chapters. So maybe you have the same audible app, right? Both you can log in and after reading the chapter, you would kind of teach each other. Tell each other, the main points and then the other person would take over and teach the main points.

And you remember, I don't have the research before me, but you remember so much more of what you tell so much more of what you teach. And so this is a really great method that can work for you. The third option is to buy one book, again, either the physical book or the audio book, and to read to each other.

Again, this is good. If you have more time in your hands, but it could be really challenging if you both are, are really busy, but the most important thing is to discuss your takeaways and to make changes in your life and in your relationship, like it's good to read about these things. It's good to think about them, but if they don't actually change your life, if they don't actually impact your.

It's kind of a waste of time, so make sure to discuss them. It doesn't need to take forever to do that. If you're not someone who naturally loves deep conversations or having discussions, then give this a shot, keep it simple and make a plan to implement this stuff in your life. Again, doesn't need to be complicated, keep it simple, but it really comes down to what do you put into action in your life?

All right. So the next tip that we have for you guys is to get coaching. So this could be getting a mentor, couple going to counseling, going to friends, um, but to get help when you guys need it. And even if you don't have like an extreme need or there's a big struggle in your relationship, it can just be so good to learn from someone who's actually coached couples.

Or a couple themselves who've gone through some of the stuff that you're going through. Yeah. So for us, we actually started to go to counseling when we were about a year, a little over a year into our marriage. And it was something that we had talked about many, many times before, but we just didn't take the steps to do it.

Yeah. We were having some struggles, just dealing with conflict, communicating well, when there was something that we disagreed upon. And so we knew that we needed help, but, uh, a lot of it was preemptive. It was something that we wanted to get ahead of instead, letting get. Get outta hand, we wanted to kind of tackle it at the beginning.

And so don't be afraid if there's not like a big struggle in your relationship to, to go and to learn some skills about handling conflict, about communicating well about really building a strong relationship. Yeah. And for myself, I had never been to counseling, so it was something that was definitely scary and I didn't know what to expect, but Joey, he was able to push me in the right direction and encourage me to go.

And I'm so thankful that we did go because. Of our counseling. We did learn a lot of concrete tools of how to handle conflict of how to communicate better. And for that I'm very, very thankful. And one of the things we learned in counseling, it actually kind of surprised me, cuz again, I'd been through counseling up to that point, but never marriage constantly, of course.

And one of the things that the counselor did instead of just focusing on our conflict and how to resolve that and given us skills to do that, I kinda expected him to do that. I kinda expected him to say, you know, talk about this or, or do that in this situation. But instead of doing that, he actually asked us about our marriage overall kind of holistically.

And he really focused on the foundation of it. And so he asked us like, are you spending time talking together? Like what happens at the end of the day after work? Are you going on dates? Are you having heart to heart conversations where you're sharing your feelings? And so instead of, again, just kind of fixing a symptom in our relationship, which was the conflict.

He really went to the root and tried to fix that. And so he encouraged us again, like we said before to go on dates regularly to, to have those open conversations, to spend time together at night, after a long Workday. And so what he was really saying is that you need to focus more on making your relationship strong than trying to solve every problem that comes up.

And what you'll find is if you do that, if you focus on making your relationship strong, making things go, right, some of those problems will kind of just resolve themselves or they won't even come up to begin with. And when there is a real issue, though, it may be tense, though. There may be conflict, you'll be better able to handle.

And one thing to remember about conflict too, since we're talking about it is from Dr. Les and Leslie parrot, who I mentioned before, who wrote saving your marriage before it starts, they have this great line and they say conflict is the price you pay for intimacy. Conflict is the price you pay for intimacy.

And basically saying that conflict can be an incredible growth opportunity to go deeper in your relationship. Because when you grow close to someone, you're inevitably gonna have conflict, no doubt, but it's by working through that conflict together, even if there's strong emotions that allows you to build a stronger relationship.

And typically, especially people who come from broken homes, we don't see conflict like that. We have typically seen conflict lead to permanent separation, and so it freaks us out. And so we can shy away from it. But what we really need to do is kind of press into it. And if we've built trust with our spouse, then conflict actually doesn't need to be this war between two people.

It actually can be a pursuit of truth. Pat ly, a business writer that I follow. He says that when there's trust in a relationship, whether it's a marriage or a business relationship, then trust makes conflict the pursuit of truth. And what he means by that is trust, transforms conflict from just being a war between two people, to really a struggle, to find the best solution.

And so building that trust is essential and then learning how to really press into that conflict. And it's always gonna be uncomfortable. It's never uncomfortable if it's comfortable to you. You're probably a little bit weird for most of us. It's conflict. Isn't super comfortable. It kind of is awkward.

It kind of is weird, but don't be afraid of that. And again, go to counseling. I mentor a couple too. We had a mentor couple when we were engaged through our church and they were really helpful. It was good to just spend time with another married couple who had been married for years and who had some training in kind of leading couples in talking about things that you need to talk about when you're engaged or even before you're engaged.

So that was really helpful. They were a great couple. And so we met with them, uh, a few times before the wedding and it definitely helped us to, uh, to talk through some things that maybe we didn't address on our own. Yeah. We went over something called the focus inventory, F O C C U S. And it was a questionnaire for both of us.

We answered on our own and they had the answers to the questions that we disagreed on. And so we would kind of talk through those questions and see kind of like where each of us. What our thought process was. And so it was great for both of us. We would go over their house. We, you know, would have drinks and a snack.

And, and we went, you know, over, you know, what our thought processes were. Why did we answer this question this way? And it was, it was a lot of great topics. I mean, it went over probably all of the harder ones though. I would say money, conflict, sex. In-laws God. Yeah. Religion, children parenting. And so I would say joy and I both learned a lot from each other.

And from this couple who had been doing it for years through our church. Yeah. That assessment was really helpful in meeting. The couple was helpful. And I realized some things that, you know, I needed to change about myself through, through those meetings, which it was really helpful. And I'm really grateful to that couple spending time with us.

And so if you have that opportunity either through your church, or maybe just a couple that you look up to go ahead and approach them and ask them, Hey, would you mind coaching us? Could we just sit down and have coffee with you? Would you mind coming over for dinner or could we meet you for dinner somewhere and just talk through some relationship stuff, like ask them questions.

How did you build such a good marriage? And those mentor couples I think are, are really, really valuable. And this next tip is a bit controversial and kind of a hot topic. But our advice is that you don't live together before the wedding. And again, I know hot topic and something that really deserves its own episode, but for me going into marriage, I knew that I wanted to make it last.

I did not wanna repeat what I saw in my parents' marriage. And so I looked around, I wanted to learn, okay, how do I make this last, how do I lessen the chance that we will get divorced? And the research is super, super clear on this point, that couples who live together before the wedding have a higher divorce rate.

And I know that might sound ridiculous. It might sound strange, especially if you're hearing that for the first time, but we're gonna link to a bunch of articles, a bunch of research in the show notes. We don't have time to go into all of it, but the research shows that that couples who live together before the wedding have a higher divorce rate.

And you know, that doesn't mean that every couple who lives together before the wedding is gonna get divorced, that's not what we're saying, but the likelihood is much higher. And so if you wanna have the best shot and making your marriage last. Then we suggest strongly that you don't live together before the wedding.

And it's certainly a countercultural thing to do. It's normal to live together. I mean, we know a lot of people who, who do, and so this is certainly something that takes a lot of courage to do. And there's a lot of reasons. I know that couples live together. I don't think people who do are like evil or malicious or anything like that.

I just think maybe they don't, haven't seen the research, they don't know any better. And, and just kind of a funny story about this, because it is kind of odd today, not to live together before you get married. Uh, Bridget has a, has a story about that. Yeah. So I was telling a friend, um, when Joey and I moved out to Denver, we were engaged, but we were not living together.

And so. I just met someone and I told her, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm living with my roommate and she's like, wait, you're not living with your fiance. And I said, no, we're not living together. And then , and then she asked me, she was like, so are you guys gonna live together when you're married? and I looked at her and I was like, uh, I thought she was joking, but she was serious.

So yeah, it's a very comical question. And it's true. It happened. Uh, I did receive that question. Um, yes, we are living together. If you guys were wondering, I just wanted to clarify, uh, we moved in together after we got married, but yeah, it's, I, I love to tell that story. You should have said no. We're we're actually not gonna live together.

Yeah. It's just seen a reaction. The, the next step is to, to talk about the most important things. And we mentioned that that focus inventory that we did, that psychological assessment, the survey that we took that kinda led us through and prompted us to speak about the most important things. And when I say most important things, what I mean is those deepest held beliefs that you have.

So again, talking about God, talking about religion, talking about kids, how many you wanna have, how you wanna parent them talking about your families, in-laws talking about sex, all those topics that may not normally come up in conversation, but are so important to get on the same page on make sure you talk about those things.

And so again, if you have that mentor couple, hopefully you can bring up those conversations with them that can prompt better conversations between you and your significant other either way. Make sure you're talking about these things and for us. One of the big topics of course is sex. So we are both Catholic Christians and we decided to save sex for marriage.

And again, that's a whole nother episode. You can go back and listen to episode 18, 19 and 20. If you want to hear more about that in those episodes, we talk about the virtue of chastity, which sounds like such a foreign thing to someone who doesn't know what it is, but it's just a virtue like courage or honesty that frees you to love.

And the virtue of Chasity is not. Like being prudish or strange or like thinking sex is bad or dirty? No, not at all. We actually think sex is so good and beautiful that we wanna save it for our spouse and just experience it with them. And even if you've made mistakes in the past, you can still do this again, episode 18, 19, and 20, or if you just want to go on YouTube and look up Jason Everett, he has a lot of great content about the virtue of Chasity about why saving sex for marriage can end up making your love so much strong.

And one analogy I've heard is like, sex is like fire in its right context, right? In a fireplace or a fire pit fire is really beautiful. It's really good. But when you take it out of there, it can actually become destructive. And I've seen this in couples, right. They start having sex and they bond on that chemical level, right?

Because sex releases oxytocin in your body and oxytocin is a bonding hormone that is released actually when a mother nurses, her baby too. And one of the effects of oxytocin is that it actually blinds you to the faults of the other person. and this is really good in marriage when there's a lifelong commitment and there can be some personality differences and some annoyances, it can actually blind you to those and help you love each other.

But when you're dating and engaged and you're trying to decide if this is the person you wanna spend the rest of your life with you don't really want that. You wanna see. Clearly. And one thing that can be so tempting for couples is to cover their problems in their relationship, with pleasure with sex.

And that happens even in marriage too. And so if you take sex out of your relationship and I encourage you to do that, if you're having sex now, just try it, try it for a month, try it. If you can, until you get married, like if you're engaged right now, just wait. It will make your wedding night so much more special and beautiful.

I mean, we we've heard stories of couples too, who, you know, they go through the wedding day and they get to the wedding night and it's kind of like any other night, it's not really that special. And they end up just like falling asleep when it's really meant to be this really good and beautiful thing.

And we're not trying to shame couples who are having sex. We're just trying to say, if you want your love to be the most beautiful, the strongest, it can be. Practice this virtue of chastity, again, a radical radical thing. But if you wanna see clearly, if you wanna make a good decision about this person, if you wanna make sure that they're in it for the right reasons, right?

They're not just in it for the sex for the pleasure, but they're actually in it because they love you take sex outta your relationship and just see what happens. And again, Jason Everett is the man for this, look up his videos on YouTube and, and you'll get a really compelling reason and argument of why saving sex for marriage is the thing to do.

Next step. Don't go into marriage with any addictions, especially a porn addiction. Really get help for that. Yeah. I, I know a lot of women who have gone on date, it starts off great. And then. They have these hard conversations. And they said, Hey, I have standards. I have these non-negotiables and one of them is no porn.

And unfortunately these men have picked porn over these women and it's so sad and it breaks my heart that they have made these decisions. And I I've been through that. Like I totally get how addicting and how attractive pornography can. And so I really have a heart for people who do struggle with it.

So to understand that you're not alone, if you do, but you really owe it to yourself and to your future spouse to get help to at least start overcoming this problem in your life before you get engaged and get married, because really porn, what it does is it kills, love. It destroys your ability to love another person.

Because if you think about it, pornography is all about using another person to make yourself feel good. And that is a recipe for disaster in a marriage. And so you really wanna overcome this, or at least start the process and start making some real progress, a few resources for you to do this. Look up, fight the new drug.

We'll include this all in the show notes to make it easy for you guys, but fight the new drug is a great organization that helps people, uh, overcome pornography and really just understand the effects that porn has on you on your brain, on your relationship and on the world. Integrity, restored integrity.

Restored is another one that, uh, helps people overcome pornography and they go at it from a little bit more of a religiou. Standpoint or fight the new drug that I just mentioned. They're completely secular, not religious at all. Matt Fred is a speaker. Uh, he actually works with integrity restore, but he's got his own thing as well.

So look him up on YouTube, Matt Fred. He has some great videos on just really practical advice and practical steps to overcome pornography. Jay Springer is someone I just learned about too, and he's a counselor and a Christian pastor, and he's been working with people. Who've had sex addictions for years, and he has a book called unwanted.

He has an online course, but he has a lot of good wisdom, good insight into this problem and he'll help you to overcome it. And one of the things that he says is we can't just beat our struggles with pornography, beat our Lu into submission. We need to understand. And by understanding it, then we can overcome it.

But so often I think we just push it away and we try to kind of kill it, but then it just comes back again and again and again. And so it's so important to go to the root, to really understand where it comes from and to beat it for good. And if you need a counselor who specializes in helping people overcome pornography addiction, or at really any addiction, whether it's drugs or alcohol, go ahead to ReSTOR.

Dot com slash coaching. Again, that's restored ministry.com/coaching. We're building that network of counselors, who we trust, who we recommend, that you can go to, to get really concrete help on overcoming an addiction, or really any other struggle that you're dealing with in your life. And I think this is especially a, a problem for people who come from broken homes.

And the reason is basic. We go through the trauma of our parents breakup and in an attempt to kind of numb that pain to comfort ourselves. We turn to pleasure. I know that's certainly that was my story. And I've seen this again and again, in people's lives, especially those of us who come from broken homes.

And so you're not really weird if you struggle with this, but you owe to yourself to get over it, to, to beat this. And it's, it's actually possible to get to a point where you don't even desire this stuff anymore. It might be a temptation, but you really won't want it anymore. And you can get there. The next thing we wanted to talk about is money.

So this is such a hot topic because money fights are one of the top reasons for divorce. Hear that again? Money fights are one of the top reasons for divorce. And if you think of your own families, If you think of the reason that your parents separate or divorce, likely there was some tension around money, whether that was the main thing or not money can cause a lot of stress.

And that's especially true when couples are not on the same page when they don't have a plan for their finances, it just results in stress. And just a sense that things are out of control. And when you're going through a crisis, COVID for example, there can be so much extra stress on top of that, especially if you lose your job or maybe you're just going through any hard time.

If you don't have your money in order, then it's gonna add so much more stress onto that already stressful situation. And so our advice to you is just create a plan for your money and to, to create a plan for your money. We recommend turning to Dave Ramsey, and I know not everyone's a huge fan of Dave Ramsey.

There. A lot of people are he's helped a lot of people like millions of people get control of their finances and millions, millions. Millions. Wow. I didn't know that. And so he could help you too. He has these seven baby steps, which I'll list off now, but you can learn more on YouTube or anywhere. We'll link to this in the show notes as well.

But the, the seven baby steps here, they are quickly. The first one is have $1,000 in a starter emergency fund. And that emergency fund is just to put a little bit of cushion between you and life, because something's gonna break. Something's gonna go wrong. You're gonna need money and you shouldn't have to rely on a loan, your parents, or a credit card.

Baby. Step number two is to pay off all your debt except a, your mortgage. What using the debt snowball and the debt snowball is just where you list all of your debts from the smallest to the largest. And you attack that first one with full intensity, right? You're making the minimum payments on all of them, but you attack that first one with any extra money that you can muster until you destroy that.

And once you destroy that debt, then you go to the next one. And so on down the list and some people. Think debt is a way of life, but I'm here to tell you that you don't have to carry debt with you throughout life. And really personal debt can just destroy your finances because it just eats away at your income and eats away at your savings.

And so it's so good to get debt out of your life for good. Maybe step number three is three to six months of expenses in savings. So this is looking at okay, how much does it take for you to live for one month? Like, what are your expenses for just one month? And then you take that in times three or times six or four or five, whatever you take that.

And you can see, okay. If I lost my job today, and I just had to live off of savings. This is how long I would last. And for most Americans, over 70%, we just live paycheck to paycheck. I think it's actually 80% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, which is just so scary. It's such a scary place to be. And so having that emergency fund will put you in a good spot where if something goes wrong, if you lose your job, if you get sick, if something happens like COVID, for example, then you'll be able to live off of your savings for a little while.

And the difference between three months and six months briefly about that three months, the lesser time is if you have, you know, a really stable job. Or maybe you're married and both of you are working, right. You don't need as much saved up because you have a lot of money coming in. And also, you know, you're pretty secure in your job.

Six months would be someone, if you're single, you know, you're living on your own. Maybe your job is not the most secure, like if you're in a sales role or something like that. And so in that case, you want to go more towards that six month mark, but it's really up to you to decide kinda what you're comfortable with, but that emergency fund, man, it brings so much peace.

And when there's problems that come up, like when you have a flat tire, when something goes wrong in your car, when you need to fly somewhere kind of in an emergency. You can just use the money. There's so much peace there. So that's baby step three. And then there's baby step three B. And that is to save at least 10% of a down payment on a home.

20% is ideal, but at least 10% and 20% helps you avoid private mortgage insurance. And that's a percentage basically of the value of the house. So if you buy like a 200 or $300,000 house each month, you're gonna pay a percentage of the value of the house to private mortgage insurance. And what that insurance does is it basically just protects the bank in case you can't pay it off.

And so really it has no value to you, but if you don't put at least 20% down, then you'll have private mortgage insurance. Baby step number four is invest 15% of your income for retirement. Dave Ramsey goes into this much more, but basically we wanna be investing. We wanna be strategic about our money and making it grow.

And so investing 15% of your income could even make you a millionaire by the time you're retire. It's kind of insane. There's a lot more to this, a lot of math and calculations, but this is super, super effective. Baby. Step number five is college funding. So you'd save money for your kids and there's different ways to do that.

Baby. Step number six is to pay off your home early, the average millionaire, the average everyday millionaire, right? Ordinary people that you wouldn't really think are millionaires, but they are millionaires. They pay off their home in about 10 years. And so attacking your home payment, um, can bring a lot of freedom as well.

And then baby steps seven is just to build wealth and to give money away just to be outrageously generous, which honestly is the most rewarding thing. So those are the seven baby steps. Again, will link to those in the show notes. Really the starting point of getting control of your finances to making a plan for your money is creating a budget.

And I know some of you listening, you're like, oh no, I am not about that. I get it. I get it like budgets. Aren't a fun thing, but really it's a tool that helps you to have control of your money. And budgeting together is such an important foundation for your marriage because you're getting on the same page when it comes to your money.

Again, which can be such a stressor, which can be one of the leading causes of divorce. But if you do a budget, you're basically creating a plan for your money and it's not. Dave Ramsey always says that a budget is not a straight jacket. It's a guardrail it's really freedom to spend. And it's more of an art.

It's not necessarily a science, so we'll take some time for you to get it down. But Dave Ramsey will teach you all about how to budget. and just sharing a little bit of our story, our, our struggles with money. When I was a, a boy, when I was like 14, I started tracking like every dollar that I spent, again, such a nerd, uh, I majored in finance and college.

And so this stuff is just kind of in my blood, in my DNA. And, and I like it a lot. It's, it's kind of like a game to me, but Bridget was on a different page. Yeah. So I hated everything about money. I hated the word budget. I hated the word debt, student loan debt, everything about money. I hated. So it, it actually to be vulnerable here, it took us, it took myself about a year to talk about how much I had in student loans with Joey.

And that was a big step in our relationship. And Joey was very patient with me. And he walked with me. And the first step that we took, which was probably the hardest step is that we sat down and we started a budget. And for myself, I was very against budgeting. I kind of had a loose interpretation of what a budget was.

But we do follow Dave Ramsey. So we do do the, every dollar budget. It is an app. You can also get it online, which we go over every month. And it's helpful for both of us to use myself as an example. I was someone that hated the idea of a budget. Never thought I could do a budget. And here I am with my husband doing a budget every month and going over it every month.

And now when I go out shopping, cuz I am the spender in the relationship, Joey is the saver. So every time I go out, I, I, I feel a lot more free actually, which is kind of funny that we have a budget and I feel more free in a budget, but it's, it can happen. It's true. And I just encourage you all, who may be feeling the same that I did to just take that step.

It's so helpful. It's. It's very freeing to be vulnerable about your money situation with your significant other and to go over together. Because when you marry the other person, you combine your finances. It's not an a and a B team. You're the same team together and it will make your marriage stronger.

It absolutely will. Yeah. I mean, I hear about other couple's situations and you know, the wife pays for a, B and C bills and the husband pays for de and F bills and then whatever money they have left over, they use it for themselves. The first time I heard that it actually made me really sad because the point of our relationship is to do everything together.

You're not. Bridge and Joey, you are a couple together and your money is together. Yeah. And you, and you need to face your money problems together. There's no way out the easy way out is to do it by yourselves, the hard way, but the best way is to do it together. And I highly, highly recommend that. Yeah.

You've really come a long way. And I'm really proud of you. I have to say it's been a journey, but it's been a really good thing. And I can't say you said I've been really patient. I, I can't say I've been patient whole time, but what was your number one fear going into marriage about money. Yeah. But, but what was one of the stressors going into marriage?

Yeah, definitely. One of the stressors I think was kind of repeating what I saw in my parents' marriage. They really did not have control of their. Things didn't go well for them money wise. Uh, even though, you know, at certain points, we were never rich by any means, but, um, my, my dad made a good living, but my parents didn't really manage their finance as well.

And they'd be the first to tell you that I'm not trying to, you know, reveal something about them. They'd be the first to tell you that they didn't really have good habits. They didn't have a good plan for their money. They didn't stick to that plan. And so it just caused so much stress, so many fights that I saw growing up.

And I just knew I do not want that. I don't want the stress that comes from that. I wanna have control of it. I didn't wanna see things in my own marriage get out of control because money was such a point of tension. And so, yeah, that, that was a big fear of mine that we would kind of repeat that or that money would be something that we never quite agreed on.

Never got on the same team on. And it would just end badly. So it was important for me to really get on the same page, which we started, uh, a little bit while we were dating mainly during engagement, but then even after we got married, we kept working on it. And that, I think that's when we grew the most.

And I think for bridge, I think one of the biggest things that made her change was seeing other people manage money really poorly. And to understand that, no, this is like really important. This is not a trivial thing that you can just kind of ignore. You need to face this sooner or later. Yeah. I mean, I I've seen couples kind of laugh off really serious situations and it broke my heart and it made me realize how important money is and how important it is to be on the same page about money and what they can do to your relat.

Like Joey said it. I think that was the point in our relationship that made us grow closer. Yeah. And now it's really not a big stressor at all. It's kind of fun. It's like this game we play together every month. Like, okay, Hey, can we go out tonight to dinner? Do we have money in the budget? Yeah. And if we do, we go and that's awesome.

Again, it's freedom to spend, like you're saving so that you can spend you're saving so that you can do something with that money. It's not just saving for the sake of saving, you're saving for some good reason. And you'll be surprised how easy it is to say no to some things. When you have a good reason for saying no for all of you out there who this may be a struggle for you, especially at first, something that we did is we would.

these goals for ourselves. Like at the end of this baby step, we will buy, I think what we bought a big screen TV, cuz we didn't have a TV for the first year of marriage. So we bought a TV and then at the next baby step, we wanted to plan a trip. So we planned a trip and all of that is because we were dedicated and we sacrificed.

But in the end it was, it was very much worth it. Yeah. And you can do it, especially if you're discouraged about money right now. Just want you to hear that. There's a lot of hope. There's been some really rough situations that people have fought back from and you can do the same. And one thing I wanted to say Bridget's debt.

When she finally told me it didn't scare me, it really didn't. I was actually just excited to tackle it together. I saw it as a challenge that we can take down together. So, what do you do if you're someone like me where, you know, your significant other isn't exactly on board, on the same page with you about money?

Uh, four things. First thing I would say, explain why it's important to you. You know, like you heard me say. I saw what happened in my parents' marriage because of the way that they didn't have really a plan for their money, they didn't manage their money. Well, and it just led to stress just led to other problems.

Tell your significant other that say, Hey, this is why it's so important to me. It's not just cuz I want to control you or anything like that. It's really just because I want freedom. The next thing clearly define why you're doing it. So it's, it's related to that first point, but this is more doing it as a couple saying, okay, this is why we are doing it together.

And one thing that can be helpful here that Dave Ramsey talks about is just creating a dream together for your life. But even something in particular like Bridget mentioned, okay, we wanna go on a trip or we wanna do buy this or we wanna buy that. We're not gonna do it until we reach this certain point.

In our journey, right? The, on this baby step or after this baby, let's say so dream together, motivate yourselves in that way, work towards kind of a common goal and make that your why and remind yourself of the why, especially when it gets hard, cuz it can take years to do some of this stuff. So you really need to stay motivated.

Keep an eye on the goal and keep moving forward. Next one. Be patient. Be patient. It really pays off to be patient. You're not gonna change your significant other by forcing them to listen to you, forcing them to, to do something. You might need to give them a little bit of a push that's different, but be patient with them, give them grace and just kind of be along with them for the ride and continue doing the good things that you're doing.

Those good habits. You have to continue those don't just abandon them, maybe cuz their significant other isn't on the same page, but slowly. Patiently try to influence them to, to change. And one practical tip at the end here, slowly feed good content to the other person, give them articles, videos, podcasts that talk maybe about something that they're dealing with right now, when it comes to money, sometimes it can be better to have someone else from the outside, outside of your relationship to speak into that issue.

And the other person may be more likely to change. Then the next tip is combine your money after the wedding. So we recommend, and Dave Ramsey talks about this a lot. Don't fully combine your finances until after the wedding. And it's totally fine. If you have like a joint bank account for the wedding itself, if you're both paying for it, that's totally fine.

You can open a new account and both contribute money to it. Or you can just use money from one of the accounts and give the other person access. That totally works too. That's actually what, what we did. And one thing that is really helpful that I've heard Dave Ramsey say a lot is. Don't buy a house together until after the wedding.

And there's a few reasons for this, but one is, there's so many stories out there of broken engagements, right? Engagements, such as ended. And then you have this house to deal with. That's under both of your names and that's just a huge stressor as well. And so just wait of you can now, you know, if one of you buys a house or maybe you're a little bit older and you're able to buy a house, that's totally fine.

There's some exceptions to maybe that hard and fast rule of like, don't buy a house. But, uh, what we're saying is like, don't buy it together because if it somehow doesn't work out and you don't end up getting married, then it will save you a lot of headache. Next step, realize that your family may not be able to help with the wedding costs.

Some families can, some can't and that's even true, regardless of if your parents are divorced or not. But the research shows that children of divorced people come from broken homes are less likely to receive. Financial support for college from their parents. And so the same logic applies to the wedding.

Like you're less likely to receive money for the wedding. And the reason for that is divorce. Rex families financially, like completely Rex them. It's so expensive. It can be so expensive to go through a divorce. The attorney fees, the court costs. It's just ridiculous. And so just for practical reasons, your family may not be able to contribute toward the wedding.

And so you may need to do a less expensive wedding or maybe, you know, save up money for a little bit longer, whatever the case, just understand that they might not be able to help with those wedding costs. Another tip having to do with housing rent for the first year of marriage, my financial advisor, our financial advisor.

He told me that he said it's best to rent for the first year of marriage for, for a bunch of reasons. Dave Ramsey repeats this too, but of course, if you already have a home, that's totally fine, but it's so wise to just rent for a year because owning a house is a big deal and being married is a big deal.

And so that first year of marriage can involve a lot of adjustments. And if you're taking care of a house, it totally, it can be done, but it's just gonna add more stress onto it. And so. Typically for most people it's best to rent for that first year of marriage, especially maybe you're checking out a new area or you're figuring out where you wanna live.

It can give you more time to have those important conversations and to figure things out. Because again, planning a wedding is tough. It is stressful. And so I can't imagine buying a house at the same time. So put this off, do it a year after rent for the first year. And just practically speaking is if you guys aren't living together before you're married, that first year of marriage is gonna give you a lot of insight into each other and make you think about different things that you might have not realized beforehand.

And so going into buying a house together, that information will be really, really helpful. Yeah. Cuz maybe you're pregnant. Maybe you end up having a baby. So. Things are gonna change quickly. And so buying a house on that new information will be a lot more helpful for you both. If we've even had conversations, talking about like what we'd want in a house.

And I can't imagine having had that conversation during engagement, it just would've been super stressful, just overload. And I was doing my MBA during our engagement when we were planning wedding. So that really took a lot of time. So there's certainly, I think are some exceptions to. But typically the best thing is to rent for the first year of marriage.

Now, if you're older and you have money and you wanna buy a house during that first year of marriage, nothing wrong with that. But typically for most people renting the first year of marriage is best. The next money tip is to, to keep an eye out for these really common money failures for a couple. So the first thing that comes to my mind is that people spend more money than they make.

And I see this a lot. It breaks my heart. People are spending money on this and that, and they go into debt. They, you know, spend it on their credit cards. And so the biggest takeaway here is just to live within your means. And that is such a countercultural saying right now, because everyone wants the nicest thing.

So. The bigger things. They want the most updated things. They want the cutest house with the cutest furniture and you know, all of the things with that. And so my biggest advice with that is just your budget. It helps you do that. And so you can plan for it, but it may take some time. And that's the sacrifice that you'd have to make with that.

And if you live on less than you make, you will be financially free. And it may take some time because if you have some debt, you have to work through, totally get that. But if you live on less than you make, you will be financially free. Money will not stress you out. And I think our just our generation really struggles with that for one reason or another, we just don't understand what it's like to, to live within your means and living within your means can mean cutting down on your expenses.

Right? Not going out as much. Not maybe having as nice of a car, not living in it as nice of a place, but it also can mean just increasing your income. And typically you'd want to do both increase your income and decrease your expenses if you can. But like I said, living within your means is so basic. It's so foundational to financial freedom.

So you really have to do that. And it's such a common struggle for couples and just individuals to, to spend more than you make. The, the next one is comparison. Comparison. Yeah. And comparison is so big nowadays. Um, and especially, I, I believe with women, I believe that we compare our clothes, our shoes, our handbags, our makeup, um, our homes with each other.

And one way a practical way of. Dealing with that is just to practice gratitude. So gratitude every day for what you have. Do you have a house over your head? Do you have food on the table? Do you have clothes on your back? Those are just things that we take for granted. And to remember that every single day is huge and there's always gonna be someone who has better or nicer things.

So you're really just chasing kind of this infinite target. That's always gonna keep moving up the hill that you'll never catch. And so you'll never be happy by constantly comparing yourself. So I love that practicing gratitude is really the way to be content where you're at. And that doesn't mean you can't work to have a better life or work to have nicer things, not at all, but it means that you're content where you're at in the moment while still working toward your goal.

The next thing is just racking up. So nowadays through student loans, through credit cards, through different purchases, you can rack up debt very, very easily. Um, and then with that debt, it adds stress and it, it sucks money out of your pocket. So you don't have the money to, to spend on the things that you really need.

Yeah. And what we mean by sucking money out of your pocket, as you know, debt has interest and interest keeps growing, especially if you don't pay your debts off. And so it really destroys your ability to, to build wealth. So racking up debt, by buying a car that you really can't afford running an apartment that you can't afford going out too much, all those things and putting it on a credit card, all those things will just end up sucking money out of your account, sucking money out of your pocket, more than just the thing you spent it on because of the interest.

The next one is credit cards. So this is a hot topic and a controversial one, but it's so easy to spend money with credit cards. And there's actually, uh, a study that showed you actually spend more money with a credit card. You're willing to pay a higher price with a credit card as opposed to, to cash or debit card.

And even if you're doing it for the points, let's say you want airline miles. It's still dangerous. This study found that people were willing to pay up to 64% more for something. When they purchase on a credit card, that's just insane. So even if you're disciplined with paying off your card every month, you still are tempted to, to spend more money than you normally would.

If you didn't have the card. And the last common money failure for couples is just to spend way too much money on cars, right. To buy a new car. With an expensive car payment, like I've heard stories of people buying really nice trucks and their truck is like more expensive every month than the apartment that they live in.

It can really get insane. And so what we recommend of course, is just buying a solid used car. Don't take out a loan, save up the money for it. And I know this can be hard in certain situations, but you certainly can do it. There's people who've done it on, on far less than you. And so save up money. You can get a good car for a few thousand dollars and then save more money, sell that car, get a nicer car.

And so on. Dave Ramsey talks about this a lot, but cars can really suck money out of your account. And so to avoid that really buy a car within your means, and you can always upgrade later. And when it comes to dealing with money, the really best resource we've found as we've mentioned is Dave Ramsey. And if you wanna take his course, you can go to financial peace university.com.

Or FPU. Dot com and we'll link to this in the show notes, but again, fpu.com financial peace university.com. Once you're on there, you could actually start a free trial. As of right now, there's a free trial that you can do on there to, to work through the course. And you won't have to pay a cent. And if you want to continue it later, uh, you can, you, you can't pay for it.

And I think it's totally worth it, but, uh, but that this will really give you good content, good guidance, and help you create a plan for your money. So you can have financial freedom. And once you start that trial, you're just gonna watch the videos and do the action steps that they tell you to do. Now, if you're not ready for that, if you don't wanna start the trial, that's totally fine.

You can just YouTube Dave Ramsey. He has. Radio show every day you can watch it live. You can watch recaps. Uh, if you have specific questions, just type in Dave Ramsey, and then your question into YouTube and, and I'm sure he's covered it on his radio show. He's been doing this for like 25 years. Another thing is on his website.

They have a free money assessment. It's a way for you to start creating a customized plan for your money. And you can find this by going to Dave ramsey.com/get started again. Dave Ramsey Ramsey is R a M S E y.com/get started. And you don't need to agree with everything. Dave says to benefit from him. I, I encourage you to really hear him out because there's a lot of wisdom when it comes to money, but you don't need to agree with everything he says to get something out of his guidance.

Okay. So the last tip that we have when it comes to engagement is to invest money into your marriage. So this is related to everything we just talked about, but to really put money into your marriage, again, not just the wedding, but also the marriage. And what we encourage you to do is to have a budget for your date nights and have a budget also for buying content, buying books and videos and courses that will help you grow as a couple money to go to counseling and so on.

So yeah, so some creative, cheap date ideas that we have are there's a list of them. So go on a picnic, go on a hike, go on a bike ride. Do a night in play, some board games, play cards, go on a drive, go somewhere different that you haven't been before. Um, cook, make new dishes together. Do a day in watch movies shows documentaries.

You could also go to a rerun movie theater and we have one of these in Denver. It's called Elvis theaters. And basically they get movies. They are $4 a ticket. Yeah, it's super cheap. So they get these movies that are out of theaters, but not yet, maybe on like the streaming services like Netflix, I think it's even $3 during the day $4 at night.

So it's just like such a steal. So maybe there's something like that in your city. Uh, coffee shop dates too are great. You know, you buy a coffee. And that's it, it's like less than 10 bucks for both of you. And if you live in an apartment complex that has some amenities you can make use of those, like if there's a basketball court, a tennis court, a swimming pool, things like that, you can make use of those.

And those are free dates. There may be some museums in your area that maybe have free days go to those check 'em out the zoo. Some zoos are free, um, explore different cities. So if you live near. A city that you haven't been to go check it out, go on walking tours. Some of them are free. Yeah. On our way.

Back from our honeymoon, we stopped in Madrid, Spain, and we were able to do, uh, a free tour of Madrid. And it was, it was actually a pretty good tour. And we, we gave them a tip at the end, but overall it was. Pretty darn affordable. So, uh, yeah, there's certainly a lot you can learn and you could even just Google, you know, cheap or free dates and then the name of your city or in, you know, your city in Chicago, in Denver, in San Diego, wherever you're at.

And, uh, I'm sure there are a lot of ideas of, uh, of cheap dates. You can also go on brewery tours. If, if you're, you know, of age and you like beer, then go on a brewery tour, distillery tours, if you're into to whiskey and things like that. One thing that, that we've done is bowling went on Groupon and got like a really good deal to, to bowl.

And we would go out with some friends and it was a really good time. We haven't done this one as much, but I know there's some places where you can go dancing. Like we have friends who are. So different types of dancing. Uh, I know some of my cousins grew up dancing and you know, whether it's like swing dancing or, or something else you can go to, uh, to maybe like a dancing club.

Yeah. And then also on Groupon, you can find Groupons for escape rooms, with friends, especially if you get a good amount of your friends to go, it's really not that expensive at the end of the day. And they are a ton of fun. Um, something that we also have in Denver and in the mountains is that we have outdoor movie theaters.

There are a ton of fun. They usually are a little bit cheaper than your regular movie theater. And it's just a different experience for sure. You can bring your own snacks, your own drinks, kind of making a date night. It's a lot of fun. And then something, if you guys have a backyard of your own bonfires, I love a good bonfire in the fall.

That can always be a nice fun date night in, and then I know this is probably not something going on right now with COVID, but sports, Joey and I love sports. So obviously right now we can't go to sports games, but maybe you just go to a park and you play sports together, whatever that is. You learn more about each other.

Yeah, we got into tennis. It was never something that either of us really. Before we were married, but we got into tennis. Uh, someone gifted us to tennis rockets and some tennis balls. And, uh, yeah, it was, it was great. I think Justin and Lewis, my, my friends, they, they gave me thanks guys, if you listening. So it was, uh, it was a great sport for us, both to get into cuz it was a way that we can spend time together and be too competitive.

Ano another thing too is if you're more artsy, if you're not into sports, then make use of that. You can make candles, you can paint, you can draw, you can do all sorts of things and you know, you, you might need to invest a little bit more money into something like that initially. Or you can find a group on and go do that at some studio.

But, uh, but that can be a really good bonding experience and something that's fun yard games. So, oh man, we, we, we like yard games. Whether it's can jam or spike ball. That's really fun. So we love yard games, and those are simple. And once you have 'em, you know, maybe costs a little bit money to buy 'em or maybe you just make 'em, uh, if you can, you know, you can make like a corn hole set, but, uh, but those are really fun going walks.

We like going on walks. We like watching the sunset, especially over the mountains where we live. Uh, we can go down the street to the park and get a good view of the mountains. It's really beautiful. Another idea is camping, you know, get a group of people go camping. And lastly minigolf so I know some people call it putt putt.

That's just strange, but minigolf is, is such a good thing. And I always love, uh, beating Bridget and minigolf excuse me. No, I she's beat me once before. No, no, no. no, no, she she's beat me more than once. It's pretty humbling. She she's good at it. And, and I don't like to. So guys, there's a lot more that can be said about engagement in general.

There's a lot more date ideas that you can look up, but I hope this is helpful. This is just some stuff that we wish we would've known going into engagement. And so I hope we can kind of pass this on to you from our experience. One last thing to add. We didn't really touch on the length of an engagement.

We typically recommend eight to 12 months. We think that's enough time to plan a wedding to prepare your relationship, and also to discern if this is the person that you do wanna marry. And there's people that I trust who say that six months is enough. So I respect that. I would say that's on the short end.

I think on the long end, going up to 18 months is fine, but really anything longer than that is just too long. Unless you have some big reason to do it. If you've discern well, if. Relied on the people that you trust for objective feedback. And you know that this is the person you want to commit to. Don't let fear hold you back and don't wait for the perfect time or the perfect wedding, because honestly, marriage is a carefully planned leap of faith.

It's never going to be perfect. And so our encouragement to you is just, don't wait too long to close out the show. Our challenge to you is once this episode, Take a minute to think about what stood out to you and then talk to your significant, other about those things. Talk to your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your fiance, your spouse, about those things.

Ask them some good questions, get a good conversation, going go out for coffee, go on a walk, whatever. Just make some space for you to, to talk about it, share your thoughts and then pick one thing that you're gonna do in the next week and execute on it. And if you pick something bigger and you need more than a week, totally fine.

Just make sure to set a deadline and to focus on one thing. If you focus on more than one thing, chances are you're not gonna do it. That's it. That's our challenge too. And like I mentioned, in part two, we're gonna talk about the wedding day. We're gonna get into wedding planning, touch on some challenges that come along with being from a broken home on your wedding day and in the wedding planning process.

And we're gonna talk about some good things to know for the first year of marriage. The resources mentioned are in the show notes ever stored ministry.com/ 23. Again, that's restored ministries, just singular ministry, singular.com/ 2 3 23. Thank you guys so much for listening. We do this all for you, and if this has been useful, please share this podcast with someone that you know, who could really use it.

Always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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Abuse, Addiction, and How I've Found Healing from my Parents' Divorce

On the night before my dad left, I was very scared, felt very alone, and felt like life was ending. When I watched him walk away the next day, it felt like he had cut out part of my heart and taken it with him and like I would never be whole again, and it still feels that way in some ways.

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10 minute read

This story was written by Sara Meyer at 26 years old. Her parents began separating when she was 14 and eventually divorced years later. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

I grew up in a Catholic family and I thought my parents were a loving couple when I was young. But there were big problems that I didn’t know about, problems that had started before I was born. And the problems centered on my dad. My dad was always moody and I knew I couldn't count on him to be compassionate when I was sick or hurt or feeling sad, but I thought that was just how men were and I didn't expect anything else.

When I was young I thought my dad loved me and my sisters and my mom, and I was convinced that I would never have to face the heartache of being a divorced kid. But when I was fourteen, my world fell apart overnight and life became a nightmare, a nightmare that lasted over ten years. My mom and dad suddenly started fighting, and my oldest two sisters and brother-in-law were also involved.

It quickly became a whole family division. The focus of the arguments was on religion after my dad and oldest siblings left the Catholic Church but my mom and my sister closest in age stayed. But the problem was much deeper than that and after many years I realized that the base problem was that my dad was a toxic man, a narcissist and that no matter what my mom did, she would never be good enough for him.

My teen years were very hard, my dad slowly became more and more unkind and finally became very psychologically and verbally abusive and when I was 19 I saw the first of his rage episodes. I walked in on him screaming insults and horrible things at my mom and when I tried to approach him and help him see the truth of who my mom was and tried to be loving and patient with him, he shut me down roughly and refused to listen.

I had never been so hurt and angry in my life. This continued for years and many problems arose that had been hidden for a long time, dark things started to come out of my dad's past that made me realize I had never really known him. For many years my parents didn't sleep together. People blamed my mom but it was never her fault. Finally, my dad became threatening and we felt very unsafe in our home and when I was 22 he moved out and about a year later he divorced my mom

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

In my experience, my parents’ separation started many years before the divorce and it was a gradual and very painful process. There were a few times throughout the years that I dared to hope that my dad would change and become loving to my mom and that the marriage would be saved but I eventually realized that hope was futile.

He was very rejecting and cold toward her and toward me as well. He called my mom "it" and a "thing" and treated her like an object. At these times I felt very angry at him, sometimes I felt very angry at myself for reasons I couldn't even explain. I felt like it was all my fault. Sometimes I felt very afraid and sometimes very grieved but always there was a deep heartsick feeling that nothing could comfort.

On the night before my dad left, I was very scared, I felt very alone and felt like life was ending and when I watched him walk away the next day, it felt like he had cut out part of my heart and taken it with him and like I would never be whole again, and it still feels that way in some ways. Before I understood about my dad's abuse I sometimes got mad at my mom because it sounded like she was talking bad about him. But I came to realize that she was only telling me the hard truth about him because she loves me and was trying to protect me from being sucked into his lies and his abuse.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

I don't know how to trust men, I ache to be happily married and have a family of my own but it doesn't feel at all safe or possible. After my dad left and after I found out things about him that were very horrible, things he had done sometime before I was born, I felt like half of me had died, nothing made sense anymore and to escape from the intense pain, anxiety, and self-hate, I started excessively picking my skin and making myself bleed which eventually turned into an addiction to cutting.

I had never ever thought that I would fall into self-harm, but I had never thought I would be a divorced kid or have a broken family and when that happened I didn't know how to cope. I began hating myself and my addiction made it worse. I had constant nightmares, was often depressed, very anxious, and afraid of my own shadow.

I lived in a constant sense of gloom and lost many friends because they said they "couldn't handle my emotions and my depression." I began to feel like a burden to everyone and there were times that I didn't want to live. One thing that I had to do to even begin the slow process of healing was to learn the real truth about my dad which I did after finding and reading an incredible book called Healing from Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas. This book perfectly explained the type of personality my dad was and the type of abuse that we had suffered from him; psychological abuse.

It was a very hard read because it hit so hard on my heart but it was a lifesaver and I started to stand up straight and look the truth in the face after reading it. I also had to write a letter to my dad expressing all of my hurt and when he replied and denied everything he had done, I knew I had to cut ties and not have him in my life. Only when the break had been made, could I heal.

But still, I struggled for years and I attempted counseling but had a counselor in college who did not understand how to help me and ended up making me feel worse about myself. I felt like so few people understood what I was going through and no one seemed to have the ability to help me make sense of the turmoil I was going through.

Then I found an amazing woman when I saw her on the EWTN channel, Sarah Swafford. She spoke to so much of what I was going through and after a few years of listening to her talks, my dream came true and I got to meet her and through her, I found my current incredible counselor who has been helping me heal for over a year and a half now and helping me sort through over ten years of emotional pain and abuse.

Currently, I can finally say, though life is still hard and some days I feel like a failure, I am healing, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and my life is gaining a sense of peace and happiness that I have never known before. I still struggle to trust men, I still struggle with my addiction at times, I still have emotional triggers from my dad and my past in general, but I find myself laughing and smiling more often than before, my life is becoming brighter and the dark clouds leave quicker when they roll across my sky.

But there is part of my heart that will never be complete again. My dad's abuse and the divorce cut out part of me that will never come back. That is a sad fact of being a kid of divorced parents. You can and will heal, but you will never be the same again.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

Know that even when you feel like you are the only one left in the world, the only one who has the pain you have, you are NEVER alone. There are others out there who understand your pain and will lovingly help you carry your burdens and when you find those people, hold onto them tight and let them hold you up when you are drowning.

Know that those loving people are out there but that most people will not understand and when they tell you things that are hurtful, know it is not YOUR fault. Fight the urge to internalize any blame that is thrown at you and know that your parents’ divorce is NEVER your fault. If you have a story like mine and feel that one parent has been the cause of the divorce and the other is not, know that some people will hurt you deeply by insisting that both parents were at blame.

I find it very offensive and deeply hurtful when someone insists that both people in a divorce are always to blame and that if you say that only one parent was the cause of the division, they will accuse you of "taking sides." I had a member of my family tell me that I was being blind and judgemental against my dad by claiming that his toxic behavior was the cause of ruining the marriage and that my mom did nothing to destroy it. This person caused me extreme grief and horrible self-doubt by telling me that the divorce was as much my mom's fault and as much MY fault as my dad's.

Yes, all humans make mistakes and need to do everything they can to heal any hurt they caused others, but I cannot agree that every divorce is caused by both people, not every person is toxic or at fault for a broken marriage. If you feel rejected by one or both parents specifically, try to find a mom or dad figure in a dear older friend, someone who can be there for you to help fill the holes. I have a dear uncle who is a dad to me.

Also, know that you are loved by God, even when you feel no one can love you. Know that there will be a hole in the world that no one else can fill if you choose to leave it. Know that if you hang in there long enough, life will show you reasons to live. I know all this advice is very hard to follow and believe me, I have struggled with it all and still do. But I have to believe that the fight is worth it and I do. To all those hurting from the pains of divorce, I believe in you, I am sending you prayers and know you ARE worth it!

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED AND SEPARATED FAMILIES

Kids of divorced parents NEED to be validated. They should have more books, talks, shows, and other resources to help them with the effects they suffer from the death of their parents’ marriage. More counselors need to be trained specifically on this topic. Maybe even prayer groups could be formed for teens and adults of divorced parents so they can gain in-person support.

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I Became My Mother's Counselor After the Divorce

When I was a little girl, I remember feeling the need to take responsibility for my mom's emotional wellbeing. Taking ownership, I became like a counselor, listening and comforting her.

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3 minute read

This story was written by Kate Meyer at 36 years old. Her parents divorced when she was 6 years old. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

My biological father was/is an alcoholic, lacked responsibility, and was emotionally and physically abusive to my mother. After a few years of trying to make her marriage work with my father, she decided it was best to separate and later divorce him. Within a couple of years, she met my stepdad and when I was eight years old she married him.

Through the years they have had their fair share of disagreements and power struggles. Two years ago (2018) my stepdad had to have a major abdominal surgery requiring several months of recovery time. Since then, he's become more angry and controlling, often yelling at my mother and seems to think she doesn’t do anything right.

This triggers my mother’s childhood memories of times when her mother was overly controlling and belittling. Sadly their marriage has disintegrated, as they barely say more than a few words to each other each day. Currently, my mom is in the process of moving to a separate residence and has regained employment.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

I don't remember very much about the first years after the divorce. Growing into adolescence was challenging. When I was a little girl, I remember feeling the need to take responsibility for my mom's emotional wellbeing.

Taking ownership, I became like a counselor, listening and comforting her. Throughout my childhood and young adult years, we've depended on each other for emotional support. Over the last few years, I've come to notice how I often feel slightly despondent around her. There has also been some resentment.

Growing up, I always felt the need to be overly calm, balancing out the stress and anxiety that my parents exhibited towards each other. While being calm has served me well, it also has had its drawbacks, in limiting my more creative, light-hearted side.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

My parent’s divorce has impacted my dating life. Unfortunately, I haven't had a close relationship with my biological dad or my stepdad, basically surface level conversations and YES I jump into that counselor role sometimes by listening to their woes and concerns. . . I’m still trying to turn away from those conversations.

Overall though, when it comes to dating, I think I've longed for companionship and have often dated out of a sense of loneliness instead of dating a man that I'm deeply attracted to or experience a deep connection with.

Realizing these dynamics, I've decided to "reset" my dating ways, trusting that God will fill the void of loneliness and if He sees fit will provide a loving boyfriend when the time is right.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

I would advise going to counseling and talking out your thoughts and feelings. I never had the opportunity to go to counseling when I was young, I didn't know there was such a thing until college.

I would also encourage you to lean on your faith, asking God for strength and opportunities to learn more about His healing power. I've experienced so much healing through the years by taking advantage of retreats, prayer experiences, and learning more about myself through these kinds of processes.

Don't let opportunities pass you by!

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED AND SEPARATED FAMILIES

This networking opportunity is great, continued outreach helps reduce isolation and helps us feel like we're not alone. Thank you so much for all your hard work!

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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What I Wish I Had Known About My Parents’ Divorce

What has occurred as a result of this breakdown in the family, is that we are terrified of making a promise that could later on be broken. What we have learned is that a vow doesn’t mean anything, it is unsafe. I can say ‘I love you’ and still walk away. Marriage, therefore, has lost its place in society as an outdated and ineffective tradition.

We treat relationships lightly and avoid getting attached at all costs.

It’s up to us to undo the cycle of broken promises and give the generations after us the opportunity to learn what it means to love and to love others themselves.

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5 minute read

I think my generation has become very guarded and as I’ve gotten older I’m starting to understand why.

From 1960 to 1980, after the no-fault divorce bill was passed (saying that you could get a divorce without proving spousal wrongdoing), the divorce rate more than doubled.

A lot of us millennials and some from those in the previous generation (gen x) were born to those parents.

Ex: my mother and myself. We were both born into families whose parents went on to get divorced.

What has occurred as a result of this breakdown in the family, is that we are terrified of making a promise that could later on be broken. What we have learned is that a vow doesn’t mean anything, it is unsafe. I can say ‘I love you’ and still walk away. Marriage, therefore, has lost its place in society as an outdated and ineffective tradition.

We treat relationships lightly and avoid getting attached at all costs.

The problem with this is that family is the foundation of society. We learn to love in the home. The best example we’ll ever have of love is that which our parents show us through their love for each other. That is why we are falling short today, we don’t know how to love. It is something we have to learn, we are not born on an island; our ability to love, our identity and sense of self are all things we develop in relation to others.

I wish I had known all of this earlier; my dating relationships have been made dramatically more difficult because of my own experience of what happens when we fail to keep our marital vows. We make a vow for a reason, it is not meant to be broken. Not merely because of the heartbreak that happens to the individuals who were married, but because of the damage it does to the children affected and society at large. The children of divorce live with that for the rest of their lives.

Distrust, skepticism, and overwhelming fear often get the best of me, leading to strife between myself and the person I love. These thoughts and feelings aren’t things that come from nowhere, they are leftover from the reality that I’ve seen what happens when our love falls short and the pain that it causes. It honestly has gotten between us over and over again. I am constantly battling the voices in my head telling me to run…I am wary of being hurt and willing to do just about anything to avoid it. At times it is excruciating, exhausting, and entirely discouraging for both me and my significant other. Experience and the fear it causes are powerful forces, more than I’d like to admit, however it is evident in myself and the culture around us.

This secondhand effect of divorce is rampant in people my age who refuse to ‘settle down’ and avoid family life altogether. We have, instead, become concerned with career achievement and having a good time. While these are good things, they are not the best things. The most convincing lie out there today is that you can’t have a good job, have fun, and be married with children. It is either one or the other. If that were true, then I wouldn’t blame anyone for not ever wanting to get married, that sounds awful!

The reality, however, is that family life doesn’t steal our joy, it increases it. The studies concerning singles vs. married couples show us that married couples tend to be happier.

This makes sense because we are made to be in relation to others. We are born into families for a reason. Our deepest joy doesn’t come from getting drinks with friends (again, not a bad thing), it comes from loving and being loved deeply.

I know how discouraging it can be when people left and right are leaving their marriages. I know what it’s like to grow up convinced that family life is for the sitcoms and love doesn’t work. I know how hard it is to love when all you know is what happens when we don’t love.

However, I was reminded in a moment of frustration that hope is a virtue because it only makes sense in the context of hopelessness. If things are just fine, we have no need for hope. We need it when we are most tempted to despair.

As millennials get older, I hope we realize the absolute necessity for family life. I hope we’re brave enough to give it our all, even if we’ve seen others who haven’t. I hope we learn to prioritize what is truly important and to overcome the fear that tells us to run the other way…because if we don’t, I guess I’m not sure who will.

It’s up to us to undo the cycle of broken promises and give the generations after us the opportunity to learn what it means to love and to love others themselves.

 

This article was written by Miranda Rodriguez, a contributing writer for the Restored blog. It has been reposted with permission. It originally appeared on her blog, First Class Act.

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All Children of Divorce Deserve a Voice

Easier said than done, but it is critical for children of divorce to learn how to self-advocate. For a 7-year-old, this may look like having the courage for both parents to attend his/her birthday party without fighting. For a teen or young adult, that may be the insistence on not having to attend multiple Christmases at each of your parents' families.

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4 minute read

This story was written by Janelle Peregoy at 38 years old. Her parents separated when she was 6 years and divorced when she was 7. She gave permission for her story to be shared.

HER STORY

Even now, I am uncertain as to what was the final "catalyst" for what finally caused my mom to leave my dad. She had separated from him a couple of different times in their 14-year marriage.

My father's emotional maturity/intimacy is, in my opinion, deeply stunted. He has always equated his role in marriage and/or parenting with monetary value. As long as he was paying bills, he was doing his "job" well.

The most telling story is that my dad nearly missed my brother's birth because he was at a Stanford football game and hadn't wanted to change his plans. My mom later confided in me that she was already functioning as a single parent in the relationship; why not make it official?

My mom, brother, and I moved in with my maternal grandparents after my parents separated. We were so fortunate to have them and they really provided a sense of stability for all of us.

HOW THE DIVORCE MADE HER FEEL

I don't have a lot of memory of the first years after the divorce. Growing into adolescence was challenging; I share a lot of mannerisms and patterns of speech with my mom.

My dad focused a lot of anger towards me, whom he perceived to be my mom's representative. My relationship with my dad is better as an adult, but all the anger and negativity toward my mom and I during those years didn't accomplish "turning us to his side." It had the opposite effect of just alienating us from him for a long time. I certainly understood why my mom felt she had to leave the marriage.

HOW HER PARENTS' DIVORCE HAS IMPACTED HER

When I consider my parents’ divorce, a lot of the longer-term impact involved my dating life. Even though I wanted to date, part of me was so terrified of getting into a relationship similar to my parents' marriage.

I mostly avoided the romantic realm until my 20's. Later, I got into a relationship with a guy who had a series of traumas and mental health concerns. I liked him because he was seemingly the opposite of my dad: very emotionally available.

I reverted to a caretaker role, not unlike the one that many children of divorce feel forced into during their childhood. Thankfully, I was able to see the inequities in that relationship and end it. My husband and I have been married six years; he's truly my guiding light.

ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHOSE PARENTS HAVE DIVORCED OR SEPARATED

Easier said than done, but it is critical for children of divorce to learn how to self-advocate. For a 7-year-old, this may look like having the courage for both parents to attend his/her birthday party without fighting. For a teen or young adult, that may be the insistence on not having to attend multiple Christmases at each of your parents' families.

Everything in one's parents' divorce is being "done to" the child, teenager, or young adult. All children of divorce deserve to regain their voices.

All divorcing parents need to take a back seat and learn how to listen to how their decision affects their children's lives.

HOW TO HELP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM DIVORCED AND SEPARATED FAMILIES

Going along with what I said above, all young adults and teens need to have access to counselors, teachers, coaches, or trusted adults outside their parents, who can successfully model that self-advocacy.

Teens and young adults need to lean into their friends! This may initially sound obvious but our society doesn't give enough credence to the power of friendships to shape our attitudes and capacity for resilience. We all need spaces where we can be vulnerable and laugh at ourselves. For a child of divorce, that safe space may not be family and therefore they should be finding that safe space in the relationships where it is possible.

Are you interested in sharing your story with Restored?  If so, click the button above. Sharing your story can help you begin healing. 

Be assured: Your privacy is very important to us. Your name and story will never be shared unless you give explicit permission.

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#022: A Quick and Simple Healing Exercise

If you could go back in time and have a conversation with the younger version of you, what would you say?

So often, those of us from broken homes are never asked how we feel about it all. Nobody asks how it has affected us. Never having a chance to speak, we bottle it up inside.

If you could go back in time and have a conversation with the younger version of you, what would you say?

So often, those of us from broken homes are never asked how we feel about it all. Nobody asks how it has affected us. Never having a chance to speak, we bottle it up inside.

In this episode, you’ll learn a powerful yet simple exercise that’ll give you the chance to speak to the little version of yourself. If you give it a shot:

  • It may bring up a lot of raw emotions

  • It’ll bring healing and relief

  • It may even open parts of your heart that you’ve closed for years

  • Best of all, it’s simple and doesn’t take long at all

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

If you could go back in time and have a conversation with a little version of you, what would you say? Something that's really common for people whose parents are separated or divorced is that nobody really asks us about how we feel. Nobody really asks us how it all affected us. And nobody really cares for us in that way.

And I think of Erin in episode 16, she shared her story about, you know, all of her friends, her family, and even her teachers knew. About her parents' separation, but everyone kind of acted like it wasn't a big deal. Everyone acted like it was normal, even though she was really hurting because of it. And so it made her feel like something was wrong with her.

And that is so common. And the result often is that we just bottle those feelings up inside. We just keep them hidden. We have no outlet for them, even though we're dying to be heard, to be seen for someone to just validate our pain and listen to us. Now, of course you can't go back in time, but what if I told you, there's a way for you to kind of talk with.

The little version of you to have a self dialogue with that younger version of yourself. And I'm not talking about some bizarre self-help crystals thing. No, there's lots of weird stuff out there. We don't condone any of that. I'm just talking about a simple, psychological exercise that I learned from a counselor that I know that'll help.

You kind of have an imaginary dialogue with that little. Version of yourself. And I know some of you may be thinking how that's not like me. I don't do stuff like that, but please give this a shot, give it a shot. I did it. And it made me cry. And I'm not someone who really cries easily. It was just so helpful.

And it just got to the core of so many of my wounds over the years. Now if you do it, I think you'll find that it's surprisingly healing. That'll bring a lot of relief because you're giving the little, you a chance to speak out in a way that maybe you were never even able to do. And it may even open parts of your heart that you just had closed off for years even.

And you might even find that this exercise comes some of those really intense emotions that you feel like anger, because those difficult emotions that we deal with. Are intimately connected to the wounds that we sustained over the years. And really the best part of the exercise is that it's simple to do.

It's not complicated and it doesn't take long at all. It could be as simple as 20 minutes or as long as you really want it to go. So if you wanna give this a shot, if you think this will be useful to you, keep listening.

Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 22 and it's kind of a mini episode where it's not gonna be long at all. And we're taking a break from our love and relationship series to bring you this really quick and simple exercise to help you.

So let's dive right in. What you're gonna need is a pen and paper. Uh, you can grab your journal if you wanna use that instead. Totally fine. And then just go to a private place. And there's three steps to this exercise. I'll go through each of them more in depth, and then I'll repeat them at the end so that you know what you're doing the first step with your dominant hand.

So if you're righty, that will be your right hand. Write a question. That the little, you needed to be asked to care for his or for her heart. So a question that you really wish someone would've asked you when you were younger and these are open ended questions. This is an exercise of the heart. It's not an exercise of the mind.

And so just open ended questions. Again, you're directing these questions to the little version of you at the time your parents separated or divorced, or really any other point in your life that was difficult for you, especially at a time where nobody really asked you how you were doing and you bottled up a lot inside for me, that was when I was 11 years old.

That was when my parents separated lot, a lot of difficult things happen around that time. And it was certainly a time where. I felt like I didn't really have a voice. And so in my exercise, some questions I asked to that 11 year old Joey was, how does all this make you feel? You know, what do you wanna say to dad?

If you really could have no filter? What would you say? Uh, what would you wanna say to mom? If you took away the filter. When you're writing all this right in the present tense go where it leads you. It's a dialogue between you and the little version of you, just like any other conversation. So just go where it takes you.

And I recommend I'll cover this more in a second, but I recommend doing one, uh, question at a time and then doing the, the rest of the exercise and then getting into another question. So that's step number one, using your dominant hand. Again, you're writing a question. The little you needed to be asked to care for his or for her heart.

So step number two, using your nondominant hand. Uh, for me, that's my left hand, cuz I'm all righty. Answer that question. That first question that you wrote down as the little, you and guys, no filter, no filter. Be blunt, be super, super blunt. Don't hold anything back. Think back to how you felt in that moment or on that time and speak from that emotion.

And if you have to swear, if you have to curse, do it. Okay. Just be super, super blunt, be raw with your emotion, with your words. And one thing that the counselor, I learned this from said, you may need that older version of you to encourage the younger version of you to really open up and to get it all out.

So you might need to give the younger version of you permission to, to speak freely. So that's set member two. All right. Using your nondominant hand, your an gonna answer that question that you wrote and step number one, and then step number three. Is go again back to your dominant hand. So for me, Maite, and just respond and affirm the little you affirm the younger version of yourself and whatever you said, empathize with them, tell him, or heard that, that you get it right.

You know, that it hurts, you know, it sucks and tell them. You know, if you wanna relate with them, you can say how you feel today about that thing as well. And keep in mind this isn't a performance. In fact, nobody's ever gonna see this. This is just for you. So feel free to, you know, write in whatever way you want.

You're not gonna be graded. Your grammar doesn't matter. So that's step number three. You're gonna respond to the little version of you and what this looks like on paper. So imagine a piece of paper. What I would do is you write one question down on one line, and then on the next line, you start to answer it and you can go for as many lines as you need.

And then once you're done with that answer, then you go to the response on another line and you can use as many lines as you need with that. And so it's just this back and forth. Dialogue and, you know, once you've done the question and then the answer, and then the response, you can start over again and ask another question and just go back and forth.

And I recommend doing this for at least 20 minutes. Uh, you can do more time too, but don't feel like you have to, uh, if you get to a point where you feel like you've just had enough. You're ready to stop, then just stop. That's okay. It took me about 45 minutes to, to do all this. I really dug into it and thought pretty deeply about it, but by the end I was done.

I was ready to, to put this away, cuz it had been pretty emotional for me. And to keep in mind that you can always do this again in the future. So don't feel like you need to get everything out right now. And also if there's a particular question or a topic that's just too much for you to handle, right.

It's too raw. Then answer another question or talk about another topic. That's totally okay. Sometimes our emotions are just too raw to, to handle in the moment, especially when we're doing something like this on our own. And so just to review quickly, step number one, using your dominant hand, just. A question that the little you needed to be asked to care for his or for her heart.

And then with your non-dominant hand, step number two is answering that question as the little you and lastly, step number three, using your dominant hand. You're gonna respond with empathy with affirmation and with love to the younger version of yourself. So again, it's question, answer response, repeat as much as you want.

So my challenge to you is simply to do this, make time to do it either when this episode ends, or if you're in a spot where you can't do this right now, put something on your calendar with an alert so that you go back to this later and really do it. And when you're done with this, something that could be really good is talking with someone about the exercise and talking about the topics that came up.

You can do that with a mentor, with a friend or a counselor, and there's no pressure to do this, but if you want to, you can come into resort's online community to talk about this. And it's really simple to join. And again, no pressure. You don't have to. I'm just throwing this out there as an option. If this would be helpful to you, uh, there's three steps to, to join first, go to restored ministry.com.

Slash community again, that's restored ministry. Ministry's just singular.com/community. You're gonna fill out a quick form and then, uh, we'll add you to the Facebook group. That's about it. And once you, you can create a post and just talk about this exercise. You can say, Hey, you know, I did the exercise from episode 22 and I just wanted to talk to someone about it.

And everyone in the group is just so. Empathetic and just wants to listen and support you. So we'd be more than happy to, to have you in our community. If you want to. Thank you so much for listening. I hope this was helpful. Hope it was useful. We are dedicated at restored to bringing you practical advice and tools like this exercise to help you cope, heal, and grow from the trauma, your parents divorce a separation.

So you can feel whole again. So this. Exactly in with our mission. So I was so excited to, to bring this to guys. I hope it was helpful for you. And if it was useful, I just wanna ask you, would you leave us a review on apple podcast? We love to, to see your reviews, just to hear what you think about this podcast.

You know, maybe something we can be doing better, anything at all. Tho those reviews really help us, not only to get that feedback and improve or know that we're on the right track, but also it gives us more visibility in the podcasting apps. And please share this episode with someone that you know, who could use.

Always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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#021: How to Build Love That Lasts: The 5 Love Languages

Most couples feel their love disappears at some point. They long for love that lasts, but they doubt it is possible. And even if it were, they don't know how to build it.

The 5 Love Languages are a simple and effective tool for building real love. They're so simple, they're often overlooked.

Most couples experience love fading at some point, usually after the wedding. They long for love that lasts, but they doubt it is possible. And even if it were, they don't know how to build it.

The 5 Love Languages are a simple and effective tool for building real love. They're so simple, they're often overlooked. In this episode, you'll hear how the 5 Love Languages help you:

  • Make your significant other feel loved

  • Build deeper intimacy

  • Create a more satisfying relationship

  • Start using the 5 Love Languages today

Plus, enter our random giveaway to win the book The 5 Love Languages! We’re giving away three. Details at the end of the episode.

Buy the Book

The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts

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TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

So many couples feel like love has just disappeared from their relationship. And this usually happens at some point after the wedding. And when you mix that with the divorce rate, the reality of divorce in our country and our world, we often wonder, can love even last. And if it can, how do we do that?

How do we make love less? And if you're like me, you know, if your parents are separat or divorced, divorce terrifies you, I I'm so afraid of getting divorced. I don't wanna get divorced and I don't want a mediocre marriage and maybe you're there right now. Maybe you're in a relationship that's really struggling.

And, and if that's the case, I want you to know that there's some real help for you here in this podcast episode today, we're gonna be talking about the five love languages, and these are really secrets or hacks to relationships. And I don't say that lightly, right? I'm not trying to make this sound phony.

These are real. Secrets to building lasting love. And I think most of you listening have probably heard of the five love languages. Maybe you've read the book, maybe you've taken the test, or maybe you just know about it from talking, uh, to people. And my question for you is, do you really understand it's power?

And more than that, Are you living it, are you living it in your relationships? And I know some of you listening, you've never heard of the five leveling inches and I'm really excited for you because there's so much good stuff in this book that we're gonna dive into in this episode. And just so many practical tips on how to build love that lasts and whatever side of the coin that you're on.

Idea, right. The five love languages is really gonna help transform your relationship. So by listening, you're gonna get a lot of things. Uh, first you're gonna learn to love your significant other in a way that they want you to love them in a way that makes them feel loved. You'll understand them much better when learning about the five love languages.

And most importantly, you're gonna learn to start using. These tips and all this is gonna result in deeper intimacy, a more satisfying relationship, not only for them, but also for you. And one of the most beautiful things is your spouse. Your significant other is just gonna feel so much more secure in your love.

And if you're like me and you're a busy person too, one of the benefits of listening this and the podcast is that you don't need. Buy the book and sit down and read it. We're gonna give you the core concepts, you know, in this episode. So you don't need to get the audio book for example, and listen to it for five hours.

We're gonna give you kind of the, the main stuff, boil it down without watering it down. Now, if you're in a relationship where you're really struggling, right? Maybe you're in a marriage where you're really struggling, you feel like you and your spouse are just on totally different pages, right? You don't feel loved.

And maybe you're in such a rough spot that you're considering a divorce. Hear me out, this is going to help you. This is going to help you give this a shot and on a personal note, learning these five love languages has been extremely powerful for me. It's really changed the way that I see and love people in my dating relationships in the past and my marriage now, but also my friendships, my siblings, my family, my parents, uh, it's really helped across the board.

And it's helped me to understand and to love my wife in a way. That she feels loved and don't be fooled. I haven't mastered that I'm still working on it, but, uh, but so much good stuff here. And like I said, it really feels like a relationship hack. And so if any of that sounds useful to you. Keep listening.

Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and. From the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel hold again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 21, and as you may know, we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. The research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are experienced.

In our romantic relationships. And you may be thinking, why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love, right? We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous ways in our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap for love, actionable tips and expert advice.

On how to find and build authentic love. And today, of course, like I mentioned, we're talking about the book, the five love languages, the secret to love that lasts. And we're just gonna boil down the content in the book, give you kind of the main ideas and main concepts, kinda like a, a book review may have seen on, on YouTube and along the way, I'll share some stories and my thoughts on it as well.

And, uh, one of the most important things is we're gonna talk about how you actually live this. Right. We're gonna give you practical advice on implementing this in your relationships right away. And towards the end, I'll tell you about, uh, random book giveaway we're doing so we'll give away three of these books, the five love languages.

So listen to the end to hear about how to enter for that. The first thing, you're probably wondering if you've never heard of this is what are the five love languages. And these are just five unique ways that people receive love, and I'm gonna list 'em off and then we're gonna get into each of them in more depth in a little bit.

The first one is words of affirmation, words of affirmation. The second one. Acts of service, the third receiving gifts, the fourth quality time and the fifth physical touch. And like the title suggests each is its own language. And each language has different dialects or different ways of expressing.

Similar things. And so we're gonna dive into each and more depth. But before we get into that, the five love languages were developed by Dr. Gary Chapman. He's an author, a speaker, and a marriage counselor, and he's worked with hundreds of couples to develop and test these concepts over the years. And he has a really popular radio show, a popular podcast, and he's actually sold more than 10 million.

Of these books and he's helped so many couples along the way, even couples who were just on the brink of divorce or just were really in a rough spot in their relationships. I wanna read you one thing that he says in the book that really is just gonna set up our entire conversation. He said, I believe that our deepest emotional need.

Is the need to feel loved. If we're married, the person we would most like to love us is our spouse. If we feel loved by our spouse, the whole world is bright and life is wonderful. On the other hand, if we feel rejected or ignored, The world begins to look dark. Most couples get married when they still have the euphoric feelings of being in love.

When the euphoric feelings evaporate sometime after the wedding and the couple's differences begin to emerge, they often find themselves in conflict with no positive plan for resolving conflicts. They resort to speaking harshly to each other. Harsh words, create feelings. Disappointment and anger, not only do the husband and wife feel unloved, but they also begin to resent each other.

In the context of marriage, he goes on to say, if we do not feel loved, our differences are magnified. We come to view each other as a threat to our happiness. We fight for self self-worth and significance. And marriage becomes a battlefield rather than a Haven. And at one point in the book, he just talks about how, if we don't fill that need.

To, to feel loved, to be loved. Then we often seek it out in unhealthy ways. We seek it out somewhere else, for example, by having an affair by cheating on our spouse. And so it is so, so important to, to get this right. And so the five love languages really helps couples to understand why they may have lost those romantic feelings and how emotional love can actually be reignited in their relationship.

But we're not just talking about infa. Right that obsession that usually comes at the beginning of a relationship, but we're talking about a real love, a deep intimacy that you can have in your marriage. You can have in your relationship that lasts for a very long time. One of the main concepts that Dr.

Chapman talks about in the book is the metaphor of an emotional love tank. He says that, you know, inside each child is an emotional tank waiting to be filled with love. And when the child feels loved, the tank is filled and the child develops normally. But when the tank is empty, says. The child acts out.

And I think this is so true for children of divorce, kind of varying away from relationships for a second here. He tells the story in the book of Ashley. Now, Ashley was only 13 when she was being treated for a sexually transmitted disease. Her parents were crushed and, uh, Dr. Chapman said, In my conversation with Ashley, she told me of her parents' divorce when she was six years old, she said, I thought my father left because he didn't love me.

When my mother remarried, when I was 10, I felt she now had someone to love her, but I still had no one to love me. I want so much to be loved. I met this boy at school. He was older than me, but he liked me. I couldn't believe it. He was kind to me. In a while. I really felt he loved me. I didn't wanna have sex, but I wanted to be loved what a beautiful desire just to want to be loved.

And I think so many of our struggles as children of divorce really come from an empty love tank. If that's true for children, it's also true in our relationships. When problems occur often, the root of those struggles is just an empty love tank. And Dr. Chapman says, I'm convinced that no single area of marriage affects the rest of marriage.

As much as meeting the emotional need. For love. And I, I think we forget this so often we try to solve the symptoms in our relationships and not the root cause. This brings me back to a time when my wife and I were going to marriage counseling and, uh, you know, we were dealing with some issues we were kind of, but heads and just a lot of conflict, a lot of, um, unrest in our marriage.

And, uh, and so we go to counseling and I'm gonna give you guys a tip. That's gonna save you a few hundred dollars here when we went. You know, having done counseling in the past, having, you know, read about psychology and all that I expected. The counselor to kind of give us some tactics on conflict resolution.

You know, when she says this, you say that, and don't say this and do that, all that. But I was surprised that he didn't take that approach instead of giving us those tactics. He instead wanted to know about really the health of our marriage overall. And he was, you know, asking questions like, okay, are you going out on dates regularly?

Are you spending time to. Really have deep conversations to really share, you know, your thoughts and your feelings with each other in a way that, you know, is not distracted by a TV or a phone and, and all these other questions, just trying to see, you know, is your marriage healthy at the core? And what he was trying to do is to get us to focus.

On really making the foundation of our marriage strong instead of trying to address every little crack in it. And it brought me back to, uh, a book that I read a while ago and actually rereading right now, it called the anatomy of peace. This book is all about building genuine peace in our relationships and in our world.

And one of the concepts in it is that we need to spend more energy making things go right than fixing things that have gone. So the counseling helped because we just started doing those simple things that would help us really to connect on a deep level and to develop that intimacy and kind of to our surprise, a lot of the problems that we were dealing with kind of disappeared, or they kind of worked themselves out.

We were able to handle them, uh, much better because our marriage was healthier. Our marriage was strong. And so when it comes to the emotional love tank, the goal of course, is to keep the love tank of our spouses, of our significant others filled. And then we can also help them learn how to fill ours, too.

We can teach them, we can request them, you know, do certain things to, to keep our emotional love tank filled. And you may be wondering, well, how do we do that? That's exactly what we're talking about in this episode about learning the love, languages, learning how to love them in a way that they want to be loved in a way that they.

Loved. And when we talk about the five level languages, we're really talking about how we or significant others receive love, but we, it also goes the other way too. We can talk about how we give love, because what I've found is, you know, we receive love in one way, but we also give love in, in another way and they could be different.

And we'll kind of get into that a little bit, but a couple things to know from the get go, you and. Significant others. Love languages are probably not the same. They, they might be, but they're probably not. And even if they are, you may have different dialects, different ways of expressing or different ways that you want, uh, people to love you.

And so, uh, it's important to, to just understand that. And often I think what happens in our relationships is that we try to love someone in the way that maybe we would feel loved. Think they want to be loved in reality, they may not be the way that they want to be loved. And so, um, you know, they may feel pretty empty that emotional love take may be pretty empty.

And it's almost as if you know, we're speaking English. and they speak Chinese and we're just completely missing each other because we're not loving in a way that they really understand in a way that makes 'em feel loved. So the first love language is words of affirmation and kind of in short, these are thoughtful or romantic or just kind words that make someone feel loved and they could be spoken.

They could be written. They've really affirmed the goodness. Of our spouse of our significant other as a person, as a partner. And they make them feel appreciated. They make them feel valued. And one of the easiest ways to, to do this is just to give compliments, right? Give them words that, build them up and it can be as simple as saying things like, Hey, you look great.

I really, you know, I like that dress or like that tie or, you know, you look really good today that that shirt looks really good on you. Whatever you can say, things like, I love your eyes. You're so good to me, you know, thank you for, for taking care of me. Thank you for taking care of the house. Thank you for planning our dates and these compliments, you know, they're endless, they can be direct or they can be indirect, you know, and by direct, I mean, they can be directly to them or they can be indirect where you compliment them, you know, to someone else, maybe you tell their friends or their family something good.

About them. And eventually, you know, it may make its way back to them, which is a really beautiful and powerful way to, to compliment someone. Dr. Chapman says verbal compliments are far greater motivators than knacking words. And in the book, he tells the story of a woman who, uh, who came to see him in his office.

And she, uh, she came into his office and, uh, she said, Dr. Chapman, I've got a problem. I can't get my husband to paint our bedroom. She said, I, I have, uh, been after him for nine months. I've tried everything I know, and I can't get him to paint it. And so Dr. Shaman, you know, talked with her a bit and he tried to understand like, okay, you know, what have you tried to do to get him to, to paint it?

And so she listed off some things and you know, most of them to be honest, were. Kind of, you know, nagging, uh, methods of getting him to, to do it. And he just wouldn't do it. He would just put other things ahead of it. Um, you know, like spending on time in the computer in this case. And so after talking with her for a little while, uh, he asked her a question.

He said, you know, does your husband ever do anything good? And. She thought about that for a little bit. And she said, yes, he does. He does some things good. Like, you know, taking out the garbage, putting gas in the car, you know, paying bills or, you know, going to the store, things like that. She didn't quite get it.

But Dr. Chapman went on to say that, okay. You know, you just told me that he knows that you want the bedroom painted. Uh, but, but he's not doing it. You know, you don't need to tell him that anymore. He knows it. He knows it. He knows it. And he said, what I want you to try is some kind of a different tactic that, you know, the next time your husband does anything good.

Anything, just give him a verbal compliment. You know, if he takes the garbage out, just think him for it. If he does the dishes, think him for it, give him a compliment, tell him, you know, he does that. Well, whatever, and, and, you know, kind of seems silly to the woman. She didn't quite understand how that was gonna get her bedroom painted, but, you know, she, she wasn't really happy with that advice, but she did it.

And three weeks later, she came back to his office and she said, It worked, you know, eventually she complimented her husband. She was just focused on kind of building him up and eventually he became motivated. He wanted to paint the bedroom for her. And so just back to what I said before, verbal compliments are far greater motivators than nagging words.

The next way to, uh, to use words of affirmation is encouraging words. All of us feel insecure about certain. In our lives or about ourselves. And so to encourage someone really means to inspire them or to give them courage, to do whatever it is that they need to do, or, you know, to help them feel better about themselves.

And, you know, often this comes down to a skill or a talent, right. There may be some potential hidden inside of us, but we feel too insecure about, about it. And so when someone encourages us, they give us a compliment or they just say, Hey, you're gonna be great at this. It really helps draw out that potential in us.

And to do this, it. Requires empathy. Dr. Chapman says, and we need to see things from their perspective kind of step into their shoes. Another way, uh, to use words of affirmation is to give kind words. And what he was talking about here really is your tone of voice, right? There's some things where if you said them in a loving kind voice, They can be taken one way, but if you say them in really a mean degrading voice, they can be taken a totally different way.

So our tone of voice, the words that we use too really mean a lot. And so we need to pay attention to those things. And when it comes to fights, right, we're bumping heads. If there's conflict in our relationships, if we can have. The emotional intelligence to respond with kindness and really a desire to understand kind of what's underneath of the conflict for our spouse for a significant other.

We are gonna get so far in building a strong relationship than if we just try to win every time. And I'll be honest with you. This is something I'm still learning. And I, I have made some progress, but man, I, this is a struggle for me is really trying to understand and respond with kindness when my wife and I have a disagreement.

Another aspect of words of affirmation is humble words. So humble words. What he's getting at hair is. Just the, the requests that we make out of love, right? These aren't demands. This is not something we're forcing our spouse to do, forcing our boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance to do, but it's really something that we're asking them to do for us, because it would help us, right.

Maybe asking them to make us a meal or to, you know, give us some space when we get home from work, whatever, just requesting that in a really humble way goes, goes really, really far. And kind of the core idea of words of affirmation is that there's many ways to. Words of affirmation, right? There's many different dialects, but the main idea is just to affirm someone's goodness to build them up instead of tear them down and really to make them feel appreciated and make them feel valued.

And this is actually one of Bridget's top two love languages, the way that she really receives. Love. And when we were dating, because you know, all the feelings, it was really easy for me to do this, but in marriage I've realized that it's not as natural for me to, to say things, to give compliments, uh, as it was, when we were dating, when we were dating, I would write her letters.

I would, you know, have really kind. Romantic things to say to her, but I've realized now I'm not loving in that way as much as I should be. So it's something that I'm honestly trying to improve upon because it's more natural for me to love with acts of service and physical touch. And so I'm trying to learn a few things you can try to really love with words of affirmation.

Just make a list of positive things about your spouse or your significant other, if this really is not natural to you. Uh, one of the things Dr. Chapman recommends is. Writing on a post-it note and maybe putting it somewhere, uh, where you'll see it, words are important. Words are important. Words are important because it's so easy for us who, you know, don't need words of affirmation necessarily, or don't value them as much as some people to just kind of forget it and to not love in this way.

Another thing you can do is just write down. The words of affirmation that you give your spouse for a week. So maybe, you know, kind off the cuff, you may say something, or you may think of something to say and you say it, um, but you can write them down. And the reason for that is just kind of to track what you've said, uh, for a couple reasons, one, you know, you don't wanna repeat the same thing every day, but also.

You can see, you can look back and see, are you actually doing it? Dr. Chapman recommends setting a goal of giving your spouse a different compliment each day for a month. You can learn how to say, I love you in different languages. You can, uh, compliment your significant other, uh, in the presence of other people, right?

Other people that they care about or that they look up to, you could appreciate your spouse's strengths, right? You can just really affirm, like, Hey, you know, you're really. At this, I, I love when you do this, I love whatever it might be about them. You know, one of the things I admire about Bridget is the fact that she's a nurse, she's a nurse, she's a pediatric nurse.

And so she works with kids and families, and it's just a really beautiful thing. She's taking care of these families who often are in like a really tough spot, you know, their child's suffering. And so she just has a really big heart when it comes to loving on those families and really helping them. So I admire that and I try to remind her of that every so.

If you're away from your spouse a lot, like if you're traveling on the road or just, you know, don't have time to spend with each other, uh, you can text each other, right. Text each other little words of affirmation. And, uh, you know, you can also just thank them for the, the routine things that they do in a day.

Everything from sweeping the floor to doing the dishes, cleaning the bathroom, whatever it is. The next love language is quality time and kinda in short, this one is all about giving someone your undivided attention. And this is all about, you know, spending carefree time with them. And this is actually my secondary love language.

You can have a couple, you can have like a primary and a secondary or even more, but usually it's, you know, one or two are really high for you. And, uh, you may be able to guess what the other one is, but for me, I just love good. Deep conversations. And I also just love doing things with people that I love things that I really enjoy, like, you know, going on adventures, playing sports, spending time in the mountains, traveling, all those things.

And one, one aspect of quality time is focused attention. So. Ironically, I think in order to have quality time, one of the requirements is actually having quantity time and, you know, maybe you're in a season of life where you don't have a lot of time to actually spend together. But what I've often found is, uh, it's really difficult to force quality time.

And Bridget and I dated long distance for about a year. And I noticed, you know, even though we would text and we would talk to each other pretty frequently, uh, when I would go visit her, I'd often realize that it. Kind of takes some time to get into sync with each other. And so, um, we would just kind of need to spend time being around each other.

And, and it made me think of relationships as kind of like a complex dance. And, you know, if you've ever done any sort of complex dancing, you know, that it really takes time to learn how to do it and to get in sync with your partner. And if you don't do it for a while, Then it takes time to get back in sync and to do it well.

And so that's kind of what we experience. So you really need that quantity time in order to have the quality time. And the goal here of focus attention is really to connect on an emotional level. It doesn't mean that every talk you have is gonna be a deep talk, but really that you're developing that feeling of closeness with each other.

And you can imagine the opposite of this is really. Being in the presence of the other, but not connecting. I mean, you can go out to a restaurant and you can see couples just kind of glued to their phones, right? They're not really talking. Their mind is elsewhere. Their attention is elsewhere. And so we really want to focus our attention on the other person.

Another part of this is quality conversations and. These are deep conversations where you can share your experiences. You can share your thoughts, your feelings, your desires, and accepting non-judgmental context and you know, asking good questions is really part of that. Truly listening to what the other person is saying, listening to kind of reflect on what they had to say.

One thing too. This is so hard for guys, especially a guy like me, cuz I'm such a problem solver, not trying to solve every problem that someone brings up. And again, I think this is more prominent in guys. Like when our ladies, you know, tell us something, tell us about a problem or an issue that they had at work or with their friends.

It's so tempting to just say, okay, well you need to do this and this. And that's a, and I've been there and I've done that so many times, you know, even after knowing this, I still mess this up, but, uh, but I am trying. And so, uh, we just really need to empathize in those moments. Just listen. Be there to just hear someone and kind of receive what they're saying to us, not fix it, all that that will come later maybe, but, uh, but that's not something we need to dive right into.

And that's especially hard for people who are problem solvers. So the opposite of these quality conversations of course are just kind of surface level conversations. And we've all been there, right? Small talk and, uh, you know, there's of course a place for small talk, but if we never go deeper, then our relationships are really gonna lack that joy that we all long for that.

Depth that intimacy some tips about quality conversations. So you can make, uh, a list of ideas of how to spend quality time together. Again, it takes some effort. It's not something that just happens. I think that's kind of a myth about quality time is that just automatically happens. So you kind of have sift to set the environment for it to happen.

Another thing you can do is just make eye contact, make eye contact. It can be uncomfortable. I totally get that. But really try to force yourself to make eye contact. Doesn't mean you like stare at them the entire time. Uh, you can look away, you know, every once in a while, but, uh, but really making eye contact says so much to the other person when they're saying something to you, multitasking, oh man, don't be on your phone.

Don't be doing something else at the same time. Like really stop what you're doing and listen to them because that thing that you're doing right, unless the house is on fire, um, it's gonna be there when you're done. Just do it. And in that moment, just spend time, truly focus on listening to the person that you're talking to.

One of the things Dr. Chapman says is really to listen for feelings and you, when someone's opening up to you about something, that's really a clue that we really need to pay attention. And one tip that I learned a while back. Just about conversations in general is to reflect people's feelings or reflect their thoughts, reflect the things that they say.

And what I mean by that is you kind of mirror them where, you know, if they say, oh, you know, I felt angry about this. You can, and in some way, not identical, but you can kind of say back, man, it sounds like you were. Really upset about that, or really angry about that. And that simple tactic makes people feel so understood.

And, and they really feel like you get them. Like, man, he, you know, he, or she like really understood what I was saying. And so there's really some simple phrases that you can use when someone's talking to you to kind of reflect back the gist of what they were saying to you. And they'll definitely make them feel understood.

Watch body language. You can definitely tell a lot about a person from their body language and it's often. So much more of what we communicate. I forget the percentage is just our body language and don't interrupt. Dr. Shaman was saying that usually we feel the need to interrupt and we often do interrupt, but instead, just be silent and listen to, to what they're saying.

Okay. Another component of uh, quality time is actually talking to actually express our feelings to another person. And this can be hard for some of us, right? If, if you're a person who just doesn't really talk about feelings, one of the things that you can. Dr. Chapman says is to, uh, focus on recognizing your feelings to begin with.

And this, he gives a really simple tactic to do this. He says, you know, throughout your day, if there's some event that makes you feel something. Then just write it down. For example, you may be driving to work and someone cuts you off on the road, you know, you, and you feel angry. Write that down, just recognizing it.

That's the first step to actually being able to communicate it. And in the book, uh, he talks about just kind of two type of people, people who. Really are pretty content. Not saying much, they just listen more. And then other people who just always have something to say. And so he said it can be dangerous in a relationship, especially a dating relationship where let's say the guy is the one who doesn't say much.

He just kinda listens. And then the girl let's say, and this can go both ways, but let's just say the girls is the one who just talks more. She's more talkative. It can be tempting for the guy not to really say much. And for the girls to just always say something and both of them can kind of feel content with this setup because they're like, oh man, you know, the girl may think he really listens to me.

And the guy can maybe thinking, man, I don't really need to say much. This is great. Uh, one of the problems with that, Dr. Shaman explain. More in the book. Is that in marriage that doesn't play out very well because the guy can just kind of hold these feelings inside or not really share any of his feelings for years and years and years.

Uh, because he maybe feel overpower by the, the woman, the wife. And again, this can go both ways, not picking on wives here, but, uh, but I think it's important to kind of recognize that in our data and relationships, but also in our marriages, just to make sure that we're both sharing and, and speaking about kind of what we're experiencing and what we're.

Another key component to quality time is quality activities. So this is just doing things that one or both of you love. And if only one of you loves that thing, I'd challenge you to stretch yourself. There's a, a great book called a severe mercy. And in the book it tells a story of a, a really beautiful couple.

It just such a great love for each other. And one of the things that they came up with is this idea of sharing. The idea of sharing and basically what they meant by that is if one of us likes something, then that must mean that there's something likable in that thing. And they made this commitment to each other to really find out the thing that they like and really to figure out kind of what it is.

And by doing that. They were able to honestly grow an appreciation for that thing or at least for their spouse, uh, who loves that thing. And so it's such a powerful thing I've done. And I know a lot of people have done it and it really, really helps another thing that Brene brown suggests in one of her books doing this simple exercise for your family, like maybe you have kids or even if not, can just be you and your spouse, or even if you're dating engaged, you can just list all the activities that you love to.

Have your, you know, significant other, your kids maybe do that as well. And then kind of analyze them and find the common ones. And she, she would like draw a Venn diagrams where, you know, all the circles are intersecting and they would find those things that were common to all of them. And they would focus on doing those things primarily.

It doesn't mean they couldn't. Do other things, but those were the, the main ones that they did. And that's just a really simple exercise. Take no time at all to, to really find some things that you, you and your spouse, your family would love to do together. And one of the things that often prevents quality time is people just say, I don't have time to spend at all.

And, uh, Dr. Shaman, he's pretty strong on this in a book. He says, make time for. We make time for the things in our lives that are important to us. And so there's really no excuses if we don't make time for our relationship. So some of the things you can try, uh, here, in addition to what we already talked about, don't feel the need to make everything quality time, right there.

There's a separation there. Like, especially if you spend a lot of time with your spouse there. Are things that you'll do. They're just not quality time, you know, things chores around the house or whatever. And so you don't always need to be having quality time. Another thing is to ask your spouse, uh, about the things that they love to do, kinda like the exercise I mentioned, and, you know, you could do one of those things a month or even more frequently.

You can include your significant other in your day by just texting them pictures, you know, about kind of what's going on with you, especially if you're away from each other for a while. Uh, you can plan a weekend getaway. Or, uh, you know, just share parts of your day with each other. Another thing that's just so good and beautiful is just to share about your dreams for the future.

You know, the places you wanna travel, the things you wanna do, uh, what you wanna accomplish in your life that could really bond you on, on a really deep level. The third love language is receiving. Gifts. And just in short here, uh, this is all about loving through receiving or, or giving meaningful gifts.

And these gifts are usually just visual symbols of our love and, you know, they could be purchased, they could be made and they can be anything from food to art, to card, to clothing, to, you know, going to a show or a movie, giving them a book that they like, you know, it's really only limited by your imagination.

But, uh, but there's so many options here for giving gifts and helping someone to kind of receive your love through that gift. Uh, but one of the most powerful gifts he mentions about in the book is the gift of presence. So this kinda overlaps with quality time, but really being there for someone, especially during difficult times in their life, when they need you the most in the book, Dr.

Chapman tells a story about a couple. He met in Chicago who, uh, Kinda experienced a miracle in their marriage. And they told them how, you know, they attended one of his seminars. And, uh, what they realized was that for so long, especially the husband, he just didn't love his wife in the way that she wanted to be loved.

And he was, he was kind of a jerk about it. He kind of just told his wife like, Hey, you know, we have as good of a marriage as anyone else. Like, you know, why are you trying to, uh, To, to ask for more like we're still together. You know, we have a good family, good jobs, all that. One of the things that, uh, he realized after this seminar was that his wife's primary love language was gifts.

Right. She loved receiving gifts and he just hadn't given her gifts for a long, long time. And so what he started to do was he started to just give her gifts and. After the seminar, he came home with a rose one of the nights and it just blew his wife away. And she felt so loved. She was a little skeptical at first, but she just felt loved by it.

Um, you know, then the, the next day he picked up a pizza for dinner, so she didn't need to cook and, you know, went on and on the next day brought home, you know, some treats for the kids and he. Made it a point to, to give gifts because that's the way that his wife felt loved and it really, it transformed their marriage it's so it was so simple, but it transformed their marriage and he just kept doing this.

And so some of the things you can try is just to keep a list in your phone of the things your spouse or partner mentions. So throughout the year, you know, they may mention, oh, I need this, or I need that, or, oh, I'd really like that make a mental note of that when you get some. Jotted into your phone. And when Christmas comes and their birthday comes, whatever celebration you have this whole list of gifts.

And so you can go ahead and, uh, give them one of those. And of course it doesn't need to be a celebration. You can just surprise them. You can get pretty artsy with this. I think that's something great about artsy people. You guys can really probably do this better than most of us, but if you're not like that, if you're not a great gift giver, you can recruit friends or your family to help you.

But one important. Don't ask them to do it for you. Right. Make sure you're learning from them. You're doing it with them. This is not something you're just like, kinda like delegating, cuz man, that is so inauthentic to, to do that. So don't, don't do that. And, and like I mentioned, just be there during difficult times with the gift of your presence.

The next love language is acts of service. And this love language is all about doing things, you know, your spouse or significant other. Would like you to do, it's really the right actions speak louder than words for them. And you know, those right actions, they make them feel loved more than really anything you can say or, or anything else you can give to them.

And so it's all about loving through actions. And some examples of, of that could be just doing chores around the house, you know, cooking, taking care of the finances, picking things up, taking care of the car, you know, planning a romantic date, all, all those sorts of. In my experience, this is one of the primary ways that I give love.

And, uh, thankfully this is one of the primary ways that Bridget receives love. So it actually works pretty well for us. We're, we're pretty blessed. One of the stories that Dr. Chapman tells in the book is about a, a young couple who approached him outside of church. He went to church business hometown in North Carolina, and, uh, and they, this couple came up to him and they said, you know, Dr.

Chapman can, can a couple make it in marriage. If they disagree on everyth. And, and so, you know, they kind of broke into a little counseling session and they finally got to the core of it. And that was, you know, they weren't really loving each other in the way that they wanted to, to be loved. And, you know, the wife was.

Kind of complaining that the husband would go off and he'd do things and he would, you know, go hunting, go fishing and just not really spend, uh, time with her and do things, uh, for her that she wanted him to do. And he had the same complaint. He would say, you know, uh, you know, I liked. When I come home for things to be tidier around the house and to sit down and eat dinner with my family.

And, uh, and so there's just a lot of tension in their marriage. And so, uh, when it came down to it, it wasn't so much that, you know, they were just so angry at each other and not good for each other, just that they weren't loving each other in the way that they wanted to, to feel loved. And so, and when they talked about kind of before marriage, They realized that they would, you know, do things for each other, do things with each other that made each other feel loved.

And, and so they kind of got away from that. Just focus on doing kind of the routine everyday things that so many of us fall into what Dr. Chapman did is he had them just make a list, uh, a list of what they would want their spouse to. Just a few things every day for them, they talked about it and they said, okay, we can do these things.

These things are very reasonable things like, you know, making the bed, you know, cleaning up the house, having dinner ready at a certain time, you know, washing the car every week and, and so on. So different, different acts of service. And once they started doing those things for each other, Their marriage has improved so much.

And so that's where Dr. Chapman again, realized that there's these different dialects that we sometimes speak, even if we have the same love languages. And he realized a few things from that specific couple, he said, what we do for each other before marriage is really no indication of what we will do after marriage things change.

So if you're engaged, if you're dating right now, uh, just understand that and be on the lookout for. Be really intentional about loving your spouse, uh, in the way that they feel loved. Uh, the, the next thing he discovered is really love is a choice. And it's not something that could be coerced. It's not something that we can demand.

We can request it. We can give people the opportunity to love us, but we can't force them to. And the last thing he realizes that, you know, my spouse's criticisms about my behavior. Provide me with the clearest clue to their primary love language. And so basically what he realized from this couple, the wife was complaining about the husband going off and hunting and fishing and doing all these things and not doing things for her around the house.

It really was an indication that okay, her primary love language was acts of service. And so when we're criticized, if we can keep that composure and just ask for clarity, we can often get to the root. Kind of what are spouses requesting and how we can make them feel loved and feel their love tank. And of course he says, you know, we're not in any way a doormat for our spouse.

We of course demand respect, but, uh, this is really something that when they criticize us, if we could take that constructively, it can go really a long way. Some of the things you can try when it comes to acts of service, uh, serve someone or something important to your spouse, to your significant other, whether that's a relative of pet friends.

Some cause I really believe in that can go a really long way. Cuz remember, actions speak louder to words, to these sort of people. And uh, you know, you could write on a note card. Today, you know, I'll show my love by doing this or doing that. And, uh, and that again can go a long way in making your spouse, making your significant other feel loved.

And I, if you don't really know what they would want you to do, you can ask them, you know, you can ask them to just like list 10 things that they'd like you to do. This month and then have them prioritize those from one to 10 and then get to work on it. You know, maybe do one, one a month or one a week, whatever rhythm and, uh, really start working through that list.

You can surprise, you know, your significant other with some act of service too, and you can involve your kids, uh, in it as well. And another way you can love in this way is to make sure your significant other has time to do the things that they love. And, you know, it doesn't mean that they're always off doing what they love, but really making sure that your spouse, if they love to watch football, making sure they have time to love football.

If they love to, you know, go out, shopping with their friends, make sure they have some time to go out, shopping with their friends. The last love language is. Touch in short, this one's pretty obvious, but it really touch makes someone feel loved more than anything else. And really a touch says more than any words, any gifts, the time you have together or any other actions.

And this is so powerful, you may have heard of, uh, failure to thrive. And I think it has some different meanings in, uh, and like psychological research. But one of the things that Dr. Chapman talks about is that there's been so much research. On babies. And he said babies who are held stroked and kissed develop a healthier emotional life than those who are left for long periods of time without physical contact.

And so touch is just so, so important. And of course we're talking about appropriate touching for whatever phase in your relationship you're in. Um, and this may, you know, break down by culture, um, your state and life, of course, like I mentioned, and of course the opposite of this is abuse. Really inappropriate touching and just taking things to, to a level that's just not good or healthy.

And the there's a story in the book where, uh, there was this couple and, uh, the husband said after doing some counseling with Dr. Chapman that, uh, once he waited. Six weeks before his wife touched him at all. And they were just kinda like the couples you heard about already. They were missing each other on so many levels.

And she didn't really realize that her husband needed that, that he really craved that, that made all the difference. Once they started to build that back into their relationship, a few things you can try. Not rocket signs here, hold hands, hug, Kee, watch a movie. Uh, you know, you can put your arms around each other in public.

You can give each other a massage. The list goes on and on. So those are the five love languages. Again, words of affirmation, acts of service, receiving gifts, quality time, physical touch. Now you may be thinking, okay, how do I figure out my left language? How do I figure. My, you know, my significant others love language.

Uh, Dr. Chapman gives a few hints. He says one, uh, think about the things that kind of hurt you deeply. And the opposite of those is probably your love language, right? If the things that hurt you are, you know, actions that someone does, or some words that they say harmful words, critical words, then maybe your love language is words of affirmation.

As an example, that the second tip he says is look at the sort of things that you request the most from your partner. So maybe you, you know, wanna back rub or maybe you want them to do something for you that can kind of be a hint about what your love language is. And I, I would bet most of you can kind of figure it out or maybe you already know what your love languages are.

What. Uh, significant others, love languages are. And the third tip you get is, you know, kind of look at how you regularly express love. And one of the things for me, you know, like I mentioned, physical touch is a big one for me. I don't know if it's the fact that I'm Italian or just a guy. I. But, uh, that's something that's really important to me.

And so I can tell you without a doubt, that is one of my love languages. And so it's possible to, to have a few love languages, like a primary and a secondary, or, you know, maybe even three that are kind of high. But typically Dr. Chapman says that usually people have one or, uh, two primary level languages.

No, like I mentioned for Bridget and I, uh, Bridget receives love. And through words of affirmation and acts of service, those things make her feel love. And the way that I give love is through physical touch and through acts of service. So I've, I've definitely had to learn, uh, when it comes to words of affirmation, uh, on bridges, then, you know, she really gives through acts of surface that that's the primary way I've seen her, her give love, and she gives love in other ways too, but that's one of the primary ways that I've seen.

And I, like I mentioned, receive love through quality time and the other one is physical touch. Like. Mentioned a few times. And one thing I've noticed too, is this is different in your romantic relationships versus your friendships. You know, some of this stuff still applies, but I know dudes for one, you know, aren't gonna really be touching, uh, our guy friends all that much, and maybe girls are a little bit more touchy and cuddly, uh, than guys are, but, uh, this stuff can totally go beyond just romantic relationships, but it may look a little bit different there.

And I, I think he even has books on like the five love languages for singles and so on. One of the things that came to me when I was talking to a friend of mine about these, is that, uh, often the habits in our families can dictate your love languages. And I think it can kind of go one of two ways. And this, of course, isn't always the case, but kind of what I've seen is, you know, there may be a love language in your family that was just really strong.

Like maybe your family is a really touchy family and, you know, they hugging all the time, kissing things like that. And, uh, and so that may be your love when she feel loved when people touch you, but it also can be something. Where you felt neglected, right? Maybe you never really receive words of affirmation from mom or dad, and that's something you really lacked and you wish you would've had.

And so now you're really hungry for that. And so I think it could go either way. In some ways it's just kind of baked into our DNA. It's something that we grow up with and doesn't really change over the years though. It. So there's so much more we could have talked about in this episode, but if you pick up the book and I'll tell you how to get that in a little bit, you're gonna get answers to questions.

Like how do you love someone when you're full of hurt, anger and resentment over the past? You know, what do you do in long distance relationships to use these five love languages? And how do you figure out your love language or your significant others love language. And, you know, he gives ideas on how to like study them.

How to ask them to, to take the test or to read the book and I'll mention how you can, uh, take the test at the end of the episode as well. And this stuff can actually save your marriage. There's a really beautiful story. Uh, about one couple where the spouse that the husband actually started. To having an affair.

And it was really partly due to the fact that him and his wife were not loving each other in a way that they wanted to be loved. And so he kind of started down that path, but what ended up happening is in that affair, the woman that he was with the feelings started to fade. In that relationship too, the infatuation went down and then he realized that, oh, this other woman doesn't really fill my need either.

And so instead of kind of seeking it elsewhere, Dr. Chapman really encouraged him no double down in your own marriage. Fix your own marriage. And they did that and it saved their marriage. And of course there was a lot of hurt to work through. Um, but by going through this book, by reading this book, you're gonna see that there's so much hope for couples, even those who are just really, really in a difficult spot.

And there's other things in the book too. Like what about situations where you actually hate your spouse? Like there's so much tension in your marriage and it feels like it's beyond hope. There's a story about that. Um, again, talking about sexual infidelity, like, what do you do. In that case, like is all lost.

Um, one of the things that he says as a marriage counselor for years, he said, no, there actually is a way to rescue your marriage. If your spouse is willing to end that and to truly change. And I know that's not a popular thing to say, but his experience as a counselor has really proven that it can actually work another couple after 30 years of really just having a.

Super mediocre marriage. They were able to turn their marriage around just by learning the five love languages, just by loving each other in a way that made them feel loved. And really the, the goal of bringing you this content from this book, this book review is if we all do this, if we build strong marriages and good families, our kids are gonna grow up.

In an environment of love, right? They're gonna have that love tank full. And by doing that, they're gonna grow and build their own strong marriages, good families. And we're gonna transform our culture. I don't think the fix lies in politics. I don't think it lies in a lot of other initiatives in our culture, but it really lies in helping people.

Feel whole again, helping them face their brokenness and heal so that they can become strong virtuous individuals and go on and live the life that they were meant to live, which often includes getting married and building a family. And really, I believe this is the best way. And perhaps the only way to truly transform our culture.

If you want more, some next steps for you, you can learn more about the love languages. That's really kind of the first step by picking up the book. And I'll tell you about that in a second, but go ahead and share this podcast with your significant other with your spouse or your boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance.

This could help them learn more about it. So you guys can start using this in your relationship. Learn your partner's love language too, you know, first seek to fill their needs, to fill their love tank. And then once you've started doing that, then you can request them. To fill yours and you guys can actually take the quiz at five love languages.com/quizzes.

Again, that's five, love languages.com/quizzes. And there's a few tests on there. They're all free. And one's for couples. One's for singles ones for I think children. And so there's a bunch of different tests you can take on there and really understand. Kind of what your level languages are, get your spouse significant other to do it.

And you can understand what theirs are as well. And more important than any of the knowledge from this book from this podcast is actually living this stuff, executing on it. And so I invite you start one of the things that we talked about today, one of the things that hit you, one of the things that stuck out to you, write it down, make a commitment to start executing on that.

Because I think so many of us, we want good, meaningful, happy relationships. And you've heard me say the purpose of marriage is not happiness and that's true. The purpose of marriage is not happiness, but it is a really good and beautiful goal to make our spouse happy. And that goal of making each other happy should really be pursued a.

By each spouse to love each other and to make each other happy. And, and that's my hope for you. I hope that you can have a really good fulfilling relationship, and I hope that the five love languages can help you get there by figuring out how to make your spouse feel loved and how to help them make you feel loved.

In closing out the show. I'd love to hear from you guys. Like what in this episode was really helpful to you find us on social media and, uh, DMS, or you can find the post for this episode and just comment, like what was the most helpful for you? What's something that, uh, that you're gonna use to, to love your significant other better.

Let us know love to hear from you. Uh, you can just find us on social at, at restored help at restored help. If you wanna buy the book, uh, I just recommend going to. Just search the five love languages, and you'll find it on there. We are gonna do a random giveaway of three books. So if you go to restored ministry.com/ 21 again, restored ministry ministries, singular.

Dot com slash two one just on there, scroll down. You just subscribe to our email list. Give us your name, your email, and just answer one quick question. You can unsubscribe it any time that you want to. And then, uh, we'll announce the winner by July 17th of, of 2020. So if you wanna chance of winning a free book, go on there.

And if you buy the book, now you can still enter the email list for the random giveaway. And if you win that, you can always, you know, give it to, uh, to someone else, you know, who could. The resources mentioned during the show notes@restoredministry.com slash two one guess. Thank you so much for listening.

I hope this has been helpful and useful. If it is, please share this with someone, you know, who could use it. Uh, go ahead and subscribe and always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.

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Miranda Rodriguez Miranda Rodriguez

My Kind of Broken

I think there’s this subconscious myth out there that in order for us single people to meet someone and have it work out, we are required to have it all together.

Emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and physically we have to be ‘good enough’.

Until then we are vastly insufficient, which is why Mr. Wonderful is nowhere to be found.​

4 minute read

I think there’s this subconscious myth out there that in order for single people to meet someone and have it work out, they are required to have it all together.

Emotionally, spiritually, intellectually, and physically you have to be ‘good enough’.

Accomplished, in shape, out of debt, well-traveled, an excellent cook…there’s a long litany of things we can (and ‘should’) achieve during our singlehood. Until then we are vastly insufficient, which is why Mr. or Mrs. Wonderful is nowhere to be found.

Okay so yeah, I think self-improvement is a good thing – scratch that – an essential thing.

Isn’t the point of life pretty much to be a  better person day in and day out?

What I would like to challenge is this misconception that you’re single because you’re not good enough…You need this time to become better. Everyone else has already obediently achieved perfection (gee, what’s taking you so long?).

Not so. You want to use this time to become better. And all the time – even long after the right person has wandered into your life (took them long enough!).

No matter how hard you work right now on yourself, you will never be “done”. We all have a dark side.

Insecurities that run as deep as our blood, hurts that still sting, jealousy, greed, vanity, selfish tendencies…these are vices we will be fighting our whole lives. And as soon as we feel we’ve improved in one area, ten other places that need some help will make themselves evident.

In fact, I believe that a lot of our “garbage” isn’t even apparent until someone tries to get a little too close. Struggles we didn’t even know we had come out of nowhere and slap us across the face as someone attempts to know us intimately.

Yes, we should certainly and continually strive for self-improvement – but this isn’t what makes us lovable or worthy of being in a relationship.

We’re already there, friends.

The question isn’t, ‘are we good enough?’ The question is this: “Can you love me in my brokenness?”

Sometimes the answer will be ‘no’, and that’s okay; it is heartbreaking and devastating too, I know. However dating is a discernment, and the question of ‘can I carry this person’s wounds?’ is one much better asked before marriage than after.

We only need one person to say ‘yes’ to this question.

We all deserve to be with someone who will see us – brokenness and all – and say:

“this is my kind of broken.”

There are wounds that take a lifetime to heal, bad habits that we are perpetually ridding ourselves of.

The right person won’t ‘fix’ us, they will support and understand our journey toward healing and growth.

We have a responsibility to work on ourselves, to try and try and try again even if we fail 100 times before seeing a minuscule amount of progress. But this responsibility doesn’t go away once we are in a committed relationship – if anything it increases since we now want to be better not only for our own sake but for this person so dear to us.

You are not single because you need to work on yourself; you need to work on yourself, that’s it.

And, so does the person you date/marry.

The beautiful thing is that you are lovable right now, in our brokenness. And for the right person, you will be the right kind of broken (as odd as that may sound).

I know that there is so much that I want to work on, my dark side is dark. I also know that doesn’t stop me from being able to be loved and known intimately.

“Love is never defeated”

Saint John Paul the Great

 

This article was written by Miranda Rodriguez, a contributing writer for the Restored blog. It has been reposted with permission. It originally appeared on her blog, First Class Act.

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