#025: Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love | Dr. Edward Sri
It’s easy to feel discouraged or lost in searching for love. Perhaps you’ve even given up on love altogether, thinking it’s not possible for you. If that’s you - or you just want to know how to build real love and avoid divorce - listen to this episode.
By listening, here’s what you’ll get:
Practical advice on finding and building authentic love - whether you’re single, dating, engaged, or married
The two ways that men and women are attracted to each other and where each can lead
Signs to watch out for to know if your love is authentic or a counterfeit
The answer to the question “What role do emotions play in love, especially in choosing a spouse?”
One of the most important ingredients to build authentic love in marriage
Plus, enter our random giveaway to win the book Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love! We’re giving away three. Details at the end of the episode.
Buy the Book
Men, Women, and the Mystery of Love: Practical Insights from John Paul II’s Love and Responsibility
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Books & Research:
The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: The 25 Year Landmark Study
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Website: EdwardSri.com
Podcast #003: How Craving Wholeness Motivated Her to Heal | Beth Sri
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
If you've ever felt frustrated or lost in searching for love, or perhaps you've just given up on love altogether thinking it's just not possible for me, then you're gonna wanna listen to this episode. You're gonna walk away with some really practical advice on finding and building authentic love. And that's true.
Whether you're single dating, engaged, or even married, we get into friendship. We talk about why it's so important to build your friendship. Even if you're dating engaged or a married. We talk about the two ways that men and women are attracted to each other and where each of those can lead. We touched on some signs that you could watch out for to know if your love is authentic or maybe a counterfeit.
And we mentioned some pitfalls that can poison your love and ruin your relationship. If you're not careful, we get into emotions. We ask the question, what role do emotion play in love, especially when choosing a spouse. And we give one of the most important ingredients to build authentic love in your marriage.
And like I said, if you're feeling really discouraged when it comes to love and marriage, we have some advice and some encouragement for you. We're also doing another book giveaway. We're gonna give away three copies of the book that we discuss today. So make sure to listen to the end, to hear how to enter that random giveaway.
So if any of that sounds useful to you keep, listen.
Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and. From the trauma of your parents' divorce or separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 25 and we're in the middle of our love and relationship series. The research shows that the biggest effects from our parents' divorce are experience in our romantic relationships.
Why is that? Basically because we don't have a roadmap for love. We've seen a broken model of love and marriage. And so when it's our turn, we feel lost and we struggle in numerous. In our relationships. And so we're bringing you a roadmap, actionable tips and expert advice on how to find and build authentic love.
Now, before I introduce my guests, I just wanna give a quick shout out to those of you. Who've left reviews for the show, especially on apple podcasts and just wanna single out Emily J Luke Emily said this ministry has helped me through a lot. We all feel alone yet. We desire to find a community that understands the pain of being children of divorce.
It doesn't define. Yet it is a part of our story. I cannot recommend this podcast enough, Emily, thank you so much for your review. You're really the reason why we do this. And so I'm so glad it makes me really happy to know that this ministry and this podcast in particular has been helpful for you. To everyone who, who hasn't left a review, I wanna invite you.
Would you leave us a review? And the reason why is it really helps us to know how we're doing in serving you, but also the more reviews we get on apple podcasts, the more people will reach. That's just how the algorithm works. And so if you could leave us a review, we'd really appreciate it. It's just three simple steps.
The first step is of course, opening the apple podcast app and then go into the ReSTOR podcast. Now, if you don't subscribe, just type in restored. Helping children of divorce. Again, it's restored helping children of divorce. Once you're on that page, scroll down to where it says ratings and reviews, and there's two ways to rate the show.
One you can tap to rate where you just click on the stars. And the second type is where you click write a review and the writing a review is. Super helpful for us. And we'd appreciate that in addition to clicking on those stars and it really doesn't need to be long guys. This can take 60 to 90 seconds.
And like I said, it would really help us, not only to know how we're doing and serving you, but also help us to reach more people. My guest today is Dr. Edward SRE. Dr. S is the husband of Beths who you may remember from episode three, Beth shared her story about how her parents' divorce has affected her and how she's found healing.
Dr. SRE is a theologian. He's an author and he is a well known speaker. And each year he actually speaks to tens of thousands of people from around the world. And he's written several bestselling books. I won't get into all of those. He's also a founding leader with Curtis Martin of focus. The fellowship of Catholic university students, where he currently serves as the vice president of formation.
Dr. SRE leads, pilgrimages to Rome and Israel each year. And is the host of the weekly podcasts, all things Catholic. He holds a doctorate from the Pontifical university of St. Thomas Aquinas in Rome, and is an adjunct professor at the Augustin Institute in Denver. He lives with his wife, Beth and their eight children in Littleton, Colorado.
Now, I know we have a lot of listeners who aren't religious and as I've said before, I'm so happy. You're here. Dr. Three does talk about God and talk about faith because he is a Catholic Christian, but even without those parts in this show, you're still gonna get a lot out of it. So if you can keep an open mind, definitely keep listening.
Dr three and the conversation mentions two books written by Pope John Paul. The second, the first is the theology of the body, or as he says, T O B theology of the body is just a collection of meditations given by John Paul. The second in Rome about God's plan for human love, sexuality in our bodies, love and responsibility was kind of the prequel to that book.
And Dr. SRE will explain it more, but basically it's the philosophical foundation and it's a lot more practical than theology of the. So let's not wait any longer. Here's my conversation with Dr. SRE, Dr. S thank you so much for making the time to be with us today. Thanks for having me. I wanted to dive right in and ask you what inspired you to, to write this book in the first place?
Yeah, you know, I was, as many years ago, I was teaching at Benedict in college and, uh, I was asked to teach a class on theology of the body. And I remember getting, you know, getting ready for that class over the winter break. And I, I went back and I read. John Paul II's earlier work, um, that he wrote, uh, in the late 1950s called love and responsibility.
Cause I knew that was the background of Tobi. But man, when I got into reading love and responsibility, I, I remember being down in this little crypt chapel underneath the Abbey St. The AEY there on campus. And, and I would read about maybe. 10 to 12 pages an hour. It was like really slow going because partly because it was so it's so thick philosophically, but also I was just so moved deeply just of like the, the vision jump all the second was casting for what authentic love really is what it looks like.
In marriage, uh, and what it looks like, you know, in, in, in romantic relationships dating and all. And I remember just feeling just like, it was like an examination of conscious. I was looking at this is the standard of love. And I was looking at my own marriage and going, wow. I fall short in so many ways and it was challenging me and inspiring me.
Uh, and I also knew that the young people. That I was gonna be teaching the college students, that they were gonna really be moved. It, it really shed a lot of light on the drama that many young people face in, in, in falling in love, dating and disappointment and hurt and feeling used or whatever. And, uh, and I knew this would actually be so helpful for them.
So my theology of body class, I ended up spending half of the semester on love and responsibility cause the students were just eating it up. Uh, and, and then, um, And I kept, you know, I taught that class a couple times at Benedictine and I started teaching it for young adults and I wrote a series of articles about it, and I got so much feedback on this.
Uh, I eventually decided to put it into a book because I, I knew it would just help people in their dating relationships and, and those that are, are trying to build a strong foundation for their marriages. I love that. And it's been helpful for me and my wife. I just wanna say thank you for, for writing it.
And I know it's helped so many other young people as well, outta curiosity. How many have you sold and given. Oh, gee, I don't know. Uh, I will say this, uh, you know, most books, they sell really strong out of the gates for about a year or two, maybe three at the most. And then they, they all tend to kind of taper off.
And I see that in, in a lot of the books I've written, except this is one of those books that just is steady. You know, we're here over a decade later, you know, and it's like, Every year, they just keep selling. And I, I get emails from people all around the world. Who've told me, like, they've read this book.
It made a difference, whether it's in Ireland, Australia, Austria, or Dubai , you know, so, so many young adult groups, uh, especially have been using this for their young adult ministry. And it it's really transforming, uh, the way they think about dating. Uh, and, and it's not my ideas. It really is that, you know, I'm, I'm so grateful to have.
Learned from JP two. And I, I'm just glad to share what his wisdom with, with, with this next generation. Absolutely. One of the things you do though in the book is just make it so much more practical. I mean, I think John Paul II was practical in many ways, but as you've said, he was such a deep philosophical thinker that we really need someone to boil it down without watering it down.
That's exactly what you've done. Mm. Yeah. Well that that's, you know, I, I, I wanted to do that. He's he is a, a deep thinker, so it, it's not easy. This isn't a book you just pick. And read, you know, while you're sitting by the pool, sipping your, it , you know, you gotta, you really be paying attention and taking notes and, you know, really, you know, working with it.
And, but it, there is such so many gems in it. I wanted to make it accessible so that a high school kid could encounter this and, and it could change the way they think about friendship and relationships with the ultimate sex. So good. And what's your hope you alluded to this already, but what's your hope for each person who reads.
Yeah. I mean, I, I really do hope that they, they encounter this incredible wisdom from J P two. That is so counter-cultural in our day and age, uh, in terms of, we live in a world where, you know, people think about what is love, love is, you know, what, you know, this feeling I get from this other person, they make me feel good.
Uh, I get this rush of emotion. I get sexual pleasure from, from this person. It's really, uh, uh, uh, that's the world's view of love. That's what Hollywood love is. It's you know, you do something for me, , you know, mm-hmm, uh, And that it just doesn't work. And so many young people, they grow up with that. And you know, they're not trying to be bad people, but this is just the vision of love that they've had.
And then when they start getting into a dating relationship, they think it's all gonna be great at first, but as they get into it four months or a year later, They realize it's a dead end and it's because they didn't have the right vision for love. It's so important that, that we get what love really is.
And I don't know of a better book that, that really walks us through that and shows very clearly. These are the dangers. These are the ways we will fall into pitfalls or cul-de-sac and things that are gonna just lead. Disappointment, uh, hurt feeling used, you know, just, you know, dis you know, just kind of completely disillusioned about, will I ever be able to find authentic love?
Is there really such a thing this lasting love? I didn't see it in my parents. I, I don't see it around me and I maybe I've experimented with the hill hookup culture and I swipe left or right. And I, and that, that's what I think love is mm-hmm, , that's, that's the, that's the way so many people in our. Um, grew up today, you know, but yeah.
You know what, what's great about JP two's ideas is he is coming from a Catholic perspective of course, and he does make some illusions to certain Catholic thinkers of the Bible. But the book is really just, I think anybody can relate to it. You know, I mentioned young adult groups that have been using this, this book that, that I wrote men, women in the ministry of love.
I think about Manhattan, the, the man, the, the men, there was a young adult ministry. In New York city, that way back in 2000. Was using this, my book as, as their young adult ministry. And what they did was they would have, you know, a speaker gift talks about the different chapters of the book. And then they would, you know, they made photocopies of some quotes from the book and, and they would make like hundred photocopies and put 'em on a stand on the outside.
It was the middle of Soho with hundreds of young adults, kind of just walking up and down that street late at night. And people would stop and they'd hear and they'd they'd listen and go. What is, oh, they're talking about love and they'd hear what was being said. And they'd be so drawn in and then they'd have this little sheet that they could take home with quotes.
And, and they, they told me about all these conversions people who were Protestant, people that were Buddhist people that were atheists. Would come to a conversion about Chasity about, you know, living dating differently. And some of them even became Catholic, you know, so it was really kind of crazy. And, and so in terms of my hopes, it's like, that's the kind of thing I hope continues to happen, uh, that people can, can really encounter Christ more profoundly in his love through this book.
No, I love that. And I'm glad you mentioned that, that it's not just for people who come from a Catholic or a Christian worldview, it's really. Can speak to anyone because we do have a lot of people listening right now who are not religious. And so, like I always say, and, uh, you know, I touch on at the start of the show is it's for you two.
It's not just for people who come from religious backgrounds. So thank you for, for saying that. It's incredible about what happened in New York. I wanna dive into some of the different topics in the book. The first one is friendship. Why would you say is a strong friendship, so necessary to have a great marriage?
Why isn't it enough? Just to be romantic partners to be lovers. Why is a strong friendship necessary? Yeah, because that, that's what really sustains your relationship day in and day out. Right. You know, you can have a sexual encounter with anyone , you know, you, you can have, uh, romantic feelings toward anyone.
Right. But those, those feelings, those passions, they come and go, right. And, and so if, if you wanna have a lasting relationship, it's gotta be built on the foundation of friendship. Um, and, and our world doesn't even understand really what friendship is. Uh, so I have a. Chapter in the book where I unpack a traditional classical kind of understanding of friendship, it goes all the way back again, this is not Christian, but it goes back to just great thinkers, like Aristotle who talked about like, you know, there's, there's three kinds of friendship and it's important.
You understand these three kinds of friendship. Uh, we've all had experiences of people that we, we thought were our friends. Or we're not friends with them anymore. Maybe they let us down. Maybe they hurt us. Maybe they betrayed us in some dramatic way or maybe, you know, we're our interests change. And so we see each other, but it's kind of awkward now, what's going on there, you know?
And then there's other people in our lives that we know and we trust and, and we might be able to, to share more deeply, you know, in our modern world. That's sad is that the majority of people it's so sad, so many people. Really know what friendship is. Uh, there was a study done a while back, uh, that showed it's like one out of four people don't have a single close friend, like just a person that they can confide in, you know, share personal things with.
Wow. I mean, that's just, just that that's dramatic. Just go to the grocery store and just look around and just count 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1 outta four people. Are are really lonely in this world. And I think again, cuz we don't know what friendship is. So what I do in the chapter is I talk about, you know, how, uh, sometimes you have friends that like you, you, because it's what I song calls friendships of pleasure, enjoyment.
Like you enjoy the same music, you enjoy the same sport, you enjoy working out whatever it is. And, and that's what unites you together. It's like you're these shared experiences, but, and those are. But they're, but they're not gonna last the test of time. There's other friendships where it's based on some kind of utility.
Like I get something from you, you get something from me. So maybe those, our favorite coffee shop, you know, we go to our coffee shop and there's, there's somebody at the, the barista there is really nice. And, you know, I pay him money. He gives me my coffee and, and we have a, we, we chat about each other's day, but it's not like that's that, that that's the extent of our relationship though.
So, you know, we are we're, we might be. , but if he were to get a different job or I no longer drank coffee, we're probably not hanging out together anymore. You know, mm-hmm, , uh, similarly, if, if, uh, we don't, you know, maybe you and I let's say we're in college and we listen to the same band and now I changed my taste to music, or we played on the, the soccer team together, but I don't play soccer anymore.
If all that joined us was playing soccer or. Listening to the same band, or you worked at the bar where I got my favorite Guinness or whatever, you know, if that's all that really United us, it's never gonna last. And that's why so many friendships change, you know, especially in our, you know, coming of age years, you know, as we merge into adulthood, large friendships are often changing.
Cuz we move, we have different interests, you know, and, and it's very unstable for a lot of people. But what we really long for is people. I can trust people who really know me as I really am. They're committed to me for who I am, and that's what, that's what we want. Ultimately, in, in, in a friendship, you know, we've all had people that, you know, we know that anyone could say, I love you.
Some people might mean it, but there's only few people that really are, are, are committed to you for who you are. We sh listen to the same music and it's fun to listen to this music with you, not you happen to work at the place where I work. You know, it's actually, I'm committed to you for who you are.
That's what we long for. And that that's, that's kind of the, the, a foundational piece of, of any basic, authentic friendship, very all calls it, virtuous friendship. And it's the basis for what we need for. For moving forward in, in, in marriage. Beautiful. In the book you touched on attraction and you say that there's two main ways that men and women are attracted to each other.
What are they and where do each of them lead? Uh, this is my favorite part of JB two's teachings. Uh, cuz I think it's so, so insightful. I've never read anyone. It gets what's going on in attraction when boy meets girl and bam, there's that initial spark of attraction, you know, you're at a coffee house and you know, there's some young guy there at a coffee house, reading a book, sipping on his coffee and then a beautiful girl walks in with her friends and he's immediately drawn to her beauty.
Uh, he takes a sip, looks down, but they looks up and sees where she is. He reads the line from his book and he looks up again to see where she is now. He's just immediately drawn to this gorgeous woman, but it's not just a physical thing. You see, he's, he's noticed, let's say her warm personality. She's really charming.
She laughs a lot. She's got a great smile. She seems to be really friendly. So it's more than just physical. There. There's something else going on. These are the kinds of attraction that happen all the time between men and women and they get this happens spontaneously. You're at the checkout line and you see someone very handsome, very beautiful walk by bam.
There's an attraction. You, you could be, you know, just you, you, you. You're in a social setting and, and you meet someone that's very interesting and you, you have a great conversation with them and there's this connection. So there's, there's two kinds of attractions that are going on. Often on one hand, the one we often think about is physical attraction.
We're attracted to their good looks, you know, their, their beauty, their, their, their, their physical features, their body. So JBD says there's a physical attraction. He calls it sensuality, but then there's also kind of, uh, uh, an emotional attract. Where we get this rush of feelings. That's not just sexual.
This is something different. This is more of an attraction to the what, what JP two calls the psychological qualities of the other person. So we have physical attraction to the physical features, their body. But we all know that there's oftentimes there's something more than just the body that we can be attracted to.
You know, there's the, the personality we're attracted to their, to, to, to, you know, JB two describes it as the woman's femininity or the man's masculinity, the mystery of the opposite sex, um, and, and their personality and that's that, and that that's more of an emotional attraction. So we have this powerful.
Physical sensual attraction and these powerful, romantic feelings that accompany attraction. Um, and these are good. This is the great thing. JP two says, God made us this way. We're wired this way, but the, the, this attraction is meant to lead us ultimately to the person. Who possesses those qualities. And this is, this is the crucial point for what John Paul second was getting at here is that he's basically saying God, like, you know, God, endows us with these great physical features so that other people will notice us.
you know, mm-hmm , uh, but, but, but my good looks, you know, this person's blonde hair or brown hair, or these, this person's gorgeous legs, whatever it is, you know, mm-hmm, . The there's more to that person than their legs than their blonde hair than their physical features. There's more to the person than their body.
Um, no matter what ed Sherin says, , , you know, I'm in love with your body. You know, I'm in love with the shape of you there. We actually long to be. We want someone to love me, not just my body, you know, and, and now, now God gives us these, the. Good books and all this. Cause we noticed that, you know, but deep down, like I've been married 20 years and, and my wife's Beth is a beautiful woman.
she is just gorgeous, you know? Yeah. But yet I, I, as I fall in love with Beth evermore in 20 years, plus in marriage, it's also knowing her, her character, her virtue, her generosity. I was just saying to her the other night, just like a, we went to a wedding and all these old friends that she was visiting, they were so excited to see her.
And I just said, Beth's. People just love you. I mean, it's because you go out of your way, you love them and you care for them and you've made a difference in their, their, their lives. I love you, honey. That's awesome. Like that's at the essence of who Beth is, you know, and, and it not, not, she has great looks, but this is even, this is deeper and that's what we want to be.
Ultimately, that's what God wants us to be attached to the, the, the person, not just their physical appearance. So the physical appearance. Gets us to be noticed. The question is, will I allow that the physical attraction to lead me more to that person? The person that has the, that good look, the good looks mm-hmm uh, or will I focus just on the physical features and when I do that, but I basically do.
I end up just using them. I use them so I can have a, a sexual fantasy in my head, or I use them so I can have, you know, sexual pleasure with them, you know? Uh, I just want their body, I, I'm not really interested in them. And those, whenever we fall into that, we're, we're, we're far away from love. We are in lust, we're just in using this person, reducing them to an object, a body for my own imagination, my own fantasy, my own physical pleasure.
And I'm just exploiting the person for myself. That's that's, that's the opposite of love. Uh, so that's the key JPG says we're given good. But that it's meant to lead us to the person that has those good looks. We're given these great personalities and psychological qualities. They, they, and we had that emotional response so that it draws us ultimately to the person that has that, that, that personality.
That's beautiful. And so essentially you're saying the person though, they're not just a list of qualities. It does include their body. It's really those qualities that are left over when those good looks fade when you get older and so on. Is that right? Well, I think that's true. I, I think, I think, you know, like I would say like, my wife is still beautiful 20 years in the marriage there's and she's always gonna be beautiful.
Right. But our, all of our physical features are going to fade over time. Um, but, but it's more than that. I, so I think that what you said is right on Joey, that I, I would say it's what you could just say is more than it's. Right now, you know, or, you know, in our first year of marriage or when we're just dating, God wants me to see evermore beyond her good looks.
Hmm. But I mean that the good looks is just like a, something like a magnet to attract me toward her, but he wants me to, to notice and appreciate evermore. Her character, her virtue, who she is. Cause you know, that's her soul , you know? Yeah. Uh, that, that's the essence of who she is, you know, because even when you're not young, right, she, she could lose her good looks in a day in a car accident or something, you know?
Um, but that's not the, but she wouldn't lose who she is. And that's the type of love that we all long for. I think all of us, if we're honest with ourselves, we do want that. And speaking about love, I wanna talk about in the book you touch on the two aspects of love. Talk a little bit about that. And why is it so crucial to know the difference between those two aspects of love?
Yeah. You know, JB two talks about how, you know, sometimes when we, we think we're in love, like, you know, today, if you wanna measure, am I in love? What do you, what do you, how do you discern that? Well, I'm in love. If I have feelings mm-hmm I feel happy. I feel good. You know that again, but that's focused on what I get out of.
You. JP two basically says John Paul like says that, that that's, that's an immature love. That's not really love, uh, that, that that's just, you're having a psychological experience. You're reacting to the sexual value of the other person. You see their good luck and you have, you have a sexual attraction, like that's, that's not love.
you're just having a. Real love is forged over time. Uh, and it describes what really exists between two people. Uh, and at the essence of this is what John Paul, second calls, self giving, where I give myself fully as a gift to the Southern person. And here's the essence of it. Um, you know, the catechism describes what love is, uh, quoting the catechism Catholic church.
So. Teaching on what lava does love based on a great thinker from all you know, about 700 years ago, named Thomas Aquinas, who defined love love is to will the good of the other to will the good of the other to see what's best for someone else. That's what love is love. Isn't you make me feel so good.
That, that, what love is you? Give me pleasure. I have fun being with you. That's not love. I mean, that's just the reaction I have, you know, to some psychological experience I'm having with you. And I'm grateful that I have this, but I'm not really committed to you. Mm-hmm real love is to will to go to the other, to see what's best for the other person.
Uh, and so, and, and that oftentimes might mean sacrifice. It might mean denying myself. So in marriage, You know, real love isn't oh honey. I, I, I just love being with you and it's so fun. I'm being with you on date night. I mean, that's a moment of love, but real love is tested when you know, she's sick and she needs me to care for her, or she wants to do one thing.
I wanna do the other and you have to. Compromise and come together or a baby's crying at three in the morning and we gotta go take care of a baby. You know, you don't have a lot of powerful feelings in those moments. you you're setting aside your feelings to serve, to sacrifice, you know, the Christian tradition when we, you know, when we say what is love it's it's God, God is love.
First John chapter four, verse eight. And this God we believe became man in Jesus Christ and showed us what love is. All throughout Christ's life. He's constantly sacrificing, serving, laying down his life, his interest, his comfort, his pleasure to serve the good of others. And we see that most, especially on the cross.
When he dies on the cross for our sins, Jesus, doesn't get a lot on good Friday. It's not like he's on the cross saying, oh, this feels so good. Thank you, humanity. You make me feel so good. No real love can hurt sometimes. Uh, and, and at the heart of what marriage is going to be is being conformed to that kind of love a sacrificial love.
Uh, marriage is really a school of love. It's not like we think of marriage like, oh, it's so great. We're gonna be together all the time, but it is great. But it's also really hard. where you're being pushed constantly. Cause you bring in your selfishness, your spouse brings in their selfishness and, and that's just a recipe for a lot of friction, tension and daily, countless opportunities.
To set aside your own interest, your own preference, your own pleasure, your own comfort to serve the good of the other. But when I do that, I, I I'm actually, my heart is expanding. I'm I'm growing in love. I'm, uh, my life is so much better when, when I lay down my life and make it a gift for someone. So let's say someone's in a relationship right now and they're trying to figure out, okay, is this relationship built on authentic love or is it maybe a counterfeit?
Is there an easy way for them to figure that out? Yeah. If they go to my website, I sell a love thermometer, and you can just use it. And it tells you if it's real love or not. I'm just kidding. like, wow, this be cool though. Fantastic. This be cool. You just kinda swipe your forehead and go, oh, I'm in love.
This is genuine. That would be great. no. The, uh, you know, I, what John Paul second would say and, and, and others, uh, I, I think the key to discerning it is, um, I, I think it comes down to do I live virtuously for the sake of this other person? Or am I living to serve myself? Do I look at this other person in terms of what they do for me, they're gonna fulfill.
My deepest desires, they're gonna fulfill my emotional needs. They're gonna give me the sexual pleasure that I want. They're gonna say the right things and always be nice to me. That's a, that's like looking inward whenever I'm looking inward, what do I get out of the relationship? That's a sign of a very immature love.
A self-centered love. It's not a real love. Doesn't mean it's all bad. It just means your love is tainted by a lot of selfishness and, and, and God wants. To heal that in you, um, a sign that you're growing in this more authentic, genuine love is when. You know, you, you actually sacrifice what you want. , you know, that's what I remember a priest used to prepare couples for marriage that I know a priest.
I know his, he would sit the couple down on, on the first day of marriage preparation class and he'd say, okay, I know you think, you know what marriage is, but you don't. Here's what the definition of marriage really is. Marriage is never getting to do what you want.
somewhat, but, but there's truth to that, right? Yeah. You know, cause you are being called again constantly to, to, to just be so generous, to be so unselfish. And another friend of mine. I remember when he got married, I asked him, oh, what the, like being married, he'd been married three months. He said, and he just shook his head, looked down really, really.
Frustrated. I said, oh no, what's wrong. It goes, Ted. I never realized how selfish I was until I got married. Mm. And, and, and that's what marriage is doing. Marriage is helping you not be selfish. And what happens a lot of young people will enter into marriage and then it gets hard. There's conflict. There's tension.
There's hurt feelings. and then they're not getting a lot out of it. And so they start thinking, wow, maybe I married to one person, maybe this isn't the right thing. And it's that, that those questions are going on. That's a sign of a selfish love. It's about what I get out of it. It's actually right there in those, in those moments where things are hard, it's difficult.
And that, that Jesus is inviting us. I think , I think he's inviting us right there to, to, to grow in love, to deepen our love. Because our love is really a commitment to the person, not to the feelings they get outta them. On the flip side, what are some of the things that can poison our love? You already mentioned a few of them, but in a few sentences, what are some things that can actually poison our loves that can cause our relationships and our marriages to fail, um, for dating relationships.
One of the biggest things. It's gonna be, uh, your emotions. If you, if you lead with your emotions and you focus on feelings, uh, cuz feelings are blind. Uh, we tend to idealize the other person when we are emotionally attracted to them. Uh, and so our, our heart goes ahead of us and we, you know, you have a conversation with somebody for 20 minutes and you just think, wow, this person has five and a half outta my.
10 qualities that I'm looking for in a future spouse and your, your heart, you could start imagining maybe this is the one I'll get married to. And it's like, whoa, where does that mean? I just met this person. It's only been 20 minutes, you know? And, and John bald second says we do that because our heart desires so much to find that Mr.
Right, that this is right. That will, will exaggerate their qualities, you know, to like, because we, we hope, oh, this could be the one we fill in all the gaps. Cause we we're idealizing that person. But when we idealize. We're not, we're not in love with the real person. We're just in love with the ideal we created.
And eventually we're gonna have to deal with the real person. Who's not as perfect as we thought. Yeah. And, and they'll end up hurting us and frustrating us. So I think that's one of the biggest things with really good people that when they fall into dating relationships, They have to be really on guard about the idealization to recognize, you know, no, I, I wanna be asking questions.
Does this person have virtue? How do they treat their family? How do they treat their roommate? How do they treat their people at the office? You know, do I see them, you know, living a virtuous life, you know, in general, that's reality, not like how does he treating me on date night? , you know, mm-hmm, very good.
And given. What would you say the role of emotions is, uh, in, in love in choosing a spouse? Like there, there is a proper place for it. Uh, I, I know you talk about this in the book, but, uh, but when it comes to, to love, what role do those emotions play and especially in choosing a spouse, You know, emotions aren't bad.
You know, like if I say to my wife, Hey honey, I love you. I'm committed to you. I would die for you, but I have no feelings for you. You know, that that would be a really bad relationship. , you know, what, what are, what are emotions do they. They kind of bring us into the sphere of the other person. Like I, I I'm entering into their world.
I'm connecting with, you know, what's happening on the inside of their life. And that that's a good thing. Yeah. It's just that we can be so swept away by it. So when it comes to choosing a spouse, honestly, the role, the emotions should not play a. Honestly, it it's really, it's a decision. Love is a decision.
So it's your mind? Your mind is going. Is this the kind of person that I can, I should marry? Am I ready to marry someone? Is this the kind of person are they, do they have the character? You know, they're gonna spend tens of thousands of hours with my children. You know, I, I mean, it's, they really aren't.
These are really our questions of the mind. It doesn't mean that the emotions aren't present, cause the emotions unite us with that person. Like we enter into their life, you know, heart to heart. So they're good, but that's. It's not part of the decision making, uh, cuz decisions are made from the head guiding your will.
Like you, you, you just, you know, you, you, you look out and you say, okay, what company am I gonna invest in? And then you choose, you don't go. But I have feelings for this company. So I'll, even though it's, you know, losing a hundred points a day, I'll go invest in it. You know, you don't make decisions based on feelings.
Uh, again, the emotions are, they're a great joy when you experience them in dating and in marriage. But that's not where you're making your decision, you know, you're, you're ultimately thinking through the, the, you know, your life, this other person's life. Do you think you fit together? And then if you do, then your will chooses, I will be married and your emotions go along and will support and, you know, be excited and encouraged or be joy and you know, all of that with it.
Um, but the decision is not made in the emotional sphere. That's really good. And there's a quote that we've mentioned on this show before that CS Lewis has, and he just, El alluded to the fact that you can never rely on an emotion to last in its intensity or even to last at all for really any period of time.
So. Really, really good stuff. Let's talk about marriage for a second here. Before closing out this conversation, you mentioned you been married for 20 years. Uh, what would you say from your experience, uh, being married, but also from all the study and the teaching that you've done? What, what's the secret?
If you were to boil it down to one or two things, what are the ingredients to building a great marriage to building love that? You marry great woman like my wife, and then that'll cover up everything else. , you know, I wanna, I wanna encourage your, your listeners, like my, my wife and I, we talk about marriage a lot on my podcast.
So my podcast is all things Catholic with Edwards three, if you, you. You, you, you just searched for it on apple podcast. You just put Edward Sri, my name you'll find me. You can't put three because if you just put three, you end up finding an Indian Hindu guru. And that's not me but, but I do a podcast every Tuesday and, uh, I, I, Beth comes on.
I don't know, once every. Couple months or so, but when she comes on, we talk about marriage. We talk openly about the struggles of marriage, the joy of marriage. And we we've done things on this. Like what makes a great marriage? Uh, my ratings go dramatically up. Every time I have Beth on they, everyone just loves her
But, uh, but I'll, but I'll say, you know, some things we, we, we talked about is, is what we've talked about here is, you know, we always tell people that when you're going to marriage, you have to be ready for the hard, the difficult. You don't realize no one can really prepare you for how demanding and hard marriage is mm-hmm and that might not happen in your first year.
It might not happen in, you know, three years, five years, seven years, maybe it's 10 years. I don't know when it happens, but everyone will face it. Your marriage hits a wall and, and those are the best that those are oftentimes the biggest times of growth, uh, in a marriage. And so whenever that happens to you, don't press panic.
And when you're thinking, what is going on, why are we fighting? Why is there this tension? How come my spouse doesn't understand me? Just know that every couple goes through that. This is the part of like, your love is being tested. Uh, and a lot of people freak out at that moment. Uh, but God wants to take the initial love.
You bring your marriage, which. Beautiful. It's good. He just wants to make it more beautiful. He wants to make it even better. Uh, but it'll only come through kind of the trials, the daily circumstances and difficulties that come up in vari life to see those challenges, not as just annoyances. This is so frustrating and these are.
Difficulties. I have to bear, you know, no, no, no. You see them as those are the places that I'm being invited to grow in love. I'm being invited to, to be more generous, to be more patient, to be more kind, to be more sacrificial. And what we would say is Catholics is to be more like Christ. Uh that's. I that's what marriage is is doing for me.
It's the school of. Calling me to love at a much deeper level than I could on my own in closing out. What advice would you give to someone who's listening right now? Who's maybe hearing this for the first time and they feel overwhelmed and they feel discouraged since they're not really living up to, to everything that you mentioned.
Uh, what encouragement, what advice would you give to them? Yeah, I would say. Being not afraid. , you know, that, you know, none of us have, has it all worked out. It's not like Beth and I went to our marriages and we, we just, we were nailing all this. We had our own struggles, our own difficulties that we brought into our marriages.
So there is a high bar you don't ever wanna lower the bar of marriage, but you don't wanna be overwhelmed in thinking you can't ever get there. Uh, so my advice would be, first of all, don't, don't be discouraged. Secondly. You know, I, I, as a Christian, I would say turn to God and ask God to help you to heal your heart, you know, to, to, to help you to grow in love.
The third thing I would say, if you're single practice love, even if you're not dating someone, you can practice this with your roommate, with your friends, with your coworkers, um, where you can practice getting out of yourself. You know, if, if you play video games, five hours, a. You're not getting outta yourself, you know, you're not, and you hope you be married someday.
That that's the worst thing you could do for marriage. Prep is just watch Netflix five hours a day, or play on your phone five hours a day, or play video games five hours a day. Yeah. Get out of yourself, serve others in a sacrificial way. And when you do that, you're, you're training yourself for marriage.
Thanks so much. This has been, this has been a blast joy. I really appreciate being with you. Yeah. Appreciate it. And how can people follow you? You mentioned the podcast. Is there any other place that they could follow you? Yeah, find me on, on Facebook, Instagram on Twitter, Edward three. So Edward Sri. And also they can go to my website, uh, which is just my name again, Edwards three, Edward sri.com.
I've got a lot of free videos and my podcast is there as well. So you can, you can find me on my website too. Dr. Three. Thank you so much for your time. Uh, we love Beth by the way, we had her on this podcast, as you know, so thank you so much for what you're both doing and for your time today. Okay. Thanks Joey.
God. If you want more of that, go ahead and pick up the book for yourself or someone else. We really were unable to scratch the surface and the book again is called men, women, and the mystery of love. And if you go to restored ministry.com/ 25, again, that's restored. ministry.com/two five. Just click on the book link there and you can check out on Amazon.
We'll also have a link there. If you wanna buy them in bulk, you can do that and get a discount off of Dr. C's site. And of course you could always just go to amazon.com and. Search for men, women and the mystery of love. Like I mentioned, at the beginning of the show, we're doing a random book giveaway.
We're giving away three copies of the book, men, women, and the mystery of love that we discussed today. And you can enter that giveaway by just joining our email list. Just go to restored. ministry.com/two five. Again, that's restored ministry.com/two five. Just scroll down to the form. You're just gonna put in your name, your email, and just answer a quick question.
Once you do that, we're just gonna send an email out and we'll announce the three winners by September 1st. And if you're already on our email list, then you're already entered for this random give. And if you buy the book now, or you already have the book, you can still enter the email list for the random giveaway.
And if you win, you could always give it away to someone else that you know who could use it. The resources mentioned during the show notes@restoredministry.com slash two five. Again, that's restored ministry.com/ 25. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, please subscribe and share this podcast with someone, you know, who could use it.
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