Dating is a Mess: A NEW Way to Meet High Quality, Virtuous People | Emily Wilson Hussem: #169
Episode link coming soon. Thanks for your patience and support.
Episode link coming soon. Thanks for your patience and support.
Dating today feels exhausting. Confusing. And for people from divorced or dysfunctional families, it can feel even heavier — because one wrong choice doesn’t just mean heartbreak… it can feel like repeating your parents’ story.
In this episode, Joey sits down with Emily Wilson Hussem, Catholic author and co-founder of Sacred Spark, to talk about the most important factor in building a healthy marriage: choosing the right person — and why modern dating culture makes that decision harder than ever.
Emily shares what she’s learned from helping nearly 20 couples get married through her viral matchmaking posts, why you can’t “analyze” your way into certainty, and how real discernment only happens when you actually meet people in real life.
In this episode, we cover:
Why choosing who you marry matters more than anything else
The fear of repeating your parents’ mistakes (and how to move past it)
How real discernment happens through in-person dating
A NEW way to meet high quality, virtuous people
If you’re single, want marriage, but feel anxious, stuck, or afraid of choosing wrong — this episode is for you.
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Joey Pontarelli (01:07)
Welcome to the Restored Podcast. I'm Joey Pannarelli. If you come from a divorced or dysfunctional family, this show is for you. We mentor you through the pain and help you heal so you can avoid repeating your family's dysfunction and instead build strong, healthy relationships. If you're single and from a broken family like me, quick question for you. Do relationships and marriage make you anxious? Are you terrified of repeating your parents' story? Does the idea of picking the wrong person as your spouse freak you out?
If so, you're not alone. One of the solutions to these fears is making sure that you choose a good, virtuous spouse. That's by far the most important decision you can make if you want to build a healthy marriage and avoid repeating your parents' mistakes. But obviously that is not easy, especially given how messy the dating world is right now how hard it can be to find someone who's right for you. And because of all that, for so many people, dating feels so daunting and even hopeless. And if you come from a divorced or dysfunctional family,
it can feel even heavier because like I said, in the back of your mind, you might be thinking, if I choose wrong, I might repeat my parents' story. In this episode, we explore how to find the right person for you and a new way to meet that person. We also talk about why you can't analyze your way into certainty, how real discernment actually happens through in-person dating, and what it looks like to move from endless messaging on your phone to meaningful in-person connection.
My guest today is the amazing Emily Wilson-Hussein, a Catholic author and influencer whose Instagram matchmaking posts unexpectedly, get this, led to nearly 20 marriages and even children being born from those couples. She and her husband Daniel are now founders of Sacred Spark, a new app unlike anything you've seen designed to humanize dating and help people move off their phones into real life. And so if you've ever asked, how do I actually find someone solid and virtuous and how do I build something different than what I knew
Growing up, this conversation is for you. And with that, here's our chat.
Emily, welcome to the show. So good to have you here.
Emily Wilson Hussem (03:07)
It's
a delight to be here. Usually we're together in person, but it's so nice to see you from across America.
Joey Pontarelli (03:13)
Yeah, I know. I wish you could sit down in person. I wish Daniel could join us too, but I'm so grateful to be speaking to you and I want to dive right in. Your Instagram matchmaking posts are legendary. So obviously not everyone listening is aware of like how legendary they are and how the results that have come from them. what are they, what inspired them? Take me to that maybe first moment when you realized, wow, this is actually helping people. For sure.
Emily Wilson Hussem (03:36)
So I've been in ministry for a long time, just walking with people on the journey of faith, wherever they are on that journey of faith. And over the years, I've seen a real struggle for singles, like minded singles to connect with one another. So what the it was kind of a nudge, I feel like in faith from God to create a space where singles could meet each other. People use the word platform for for what I have and share. And I really hate that term. I'm not standing on a platform. I just have.
a place where I can reach people that the Lord has given me. So the question has always been Lord, what do want me to do with this place? What do you want me to do with this space? And in that moment, the Lord said, I want you to help singles connect with one another. So what I did was I made a simple post on Instagram. thought it was the silliest idea ever. I thought it was the most ridiculous thing. And that three people would comment. I wrote this as a matchmaking post. And if you're single and you want to write about yourself, what you're looking for, who you're looking to connect with, go ahead. So there's all these people in the first two days.
were over 6,900 entries on this one post that I had made. had friends texting me, I've heard about this matchmaking thing. What are you doing? And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm just trying to be obedient to God and see what happens. So it became this revolution online that I didn't anticipate. That was in August of 2023. So we'll come up on three years since the first one this August and
Just about, I'm really trying to keep up with the numbers, but just about 20 married couples have come from those posts. ⁓ In the last 90 days, there have been two babies born to those married couples who came from the matchmaking posts meetings. And it has been people of all ages, people all over the world, a couple in New Zealand, one couple from America to Spain, and even one couple in their sixties. One woman, she posted about herself and she could have said, this is for people in their twenties and thirties, but she said,
going to take a chance. I'm just going to go for it see what happens." She posted about herself. And her now husband was not on social media, but one, a gal who follows my ministry, she knew this man and she saw this woman's comment. She thought, my gosh, I think I know the guy for this woman. And she connected the two of them and they're now married. they have been legendary in the sense of, it's just me trying to be obedient to the Lord and really shows it with God all things are possible. And he wants us to think outside of the box when it comes to dating.
when it comes to relationships and when it comes to love.
Joey Pontarelli (06:04)
Hmm, so good. I guess one of the obvious questions like, why do you care so much? know you said, you know, you felt moved in this direction, but like, go a little bit deeper into that. Like, why do care so much about helping people find love, build marriages? Yeah.
Emily Wilson Hussem (06:16)
Yeah,
absolutely, it's a great question.
There are a couple of pieces of my heart that factor into this question. I think really solid marriages really just help build up the culture, build up the world and build up the church. think when strong marriages, right? And I know you speak to this a lot, the importance of this and ⁓ strong marriages, they really can impact communities. If you think of real, beautifully strong couples and the mentorship that they have offered people and their home and what a beautiful place it has been.
that really changes cultures and communities. Along the way, some of my closest friends are amazing single women. Shout out to the single women and men listening to this episode right now. Single women who really ache to find a wonderful partner, a wonderful man to build a life with, and they just can't seem to find him. And I've walked with them on this journey for many years now. Some of them in their 30s, some in their 40s. Many years now of the ache.
and the longing for a good, holy, virtuous spouse. And this, guess, in a way was my attempt to say, okay, maybe I can help find a man for my friends, or maybe there's just many men and women out there just like them longing to connect with a solid, rooted person. So what part can I play in this? And I guess that's why, where my care comes from. Like I really want to do the Lord's work and...
help people who really have this deep longing for connection find that connection.
Joey Pontarelli (07:45)
And what I've seen too, especially in the young people that I work with, is that they all want love. They might be afraid of it, there might be a lot holding them back from it, but they want love, and they even want marriage. But like you said, so many feel hopeless because they can't find the right person for them. And so, you you already touched on that, but say a little bit more, like how real is the struggle for young people today? And maybe not even young people, for everyone.
Emily Wilson Hussem (08:10)
Yeah, wouldn't would you agree when someone if someone said to you dating culture these days is a dumpster fire. Would you agree with them?
Joey Pontarelli (08:17)
Yeah, I would say secular dating culture. Yeah.
Emily Wilson Hussem (08:20)
For sure. Would you say that about like Christian or Catholic dating culture as well or would your answer be different?
Joey Pontarelli (08:25)
I would say maybe it's a little bit better, but still a mess.
Emily Wilson Hussem (08:28)
Yeah,
totally. And I think that ache is so real because the longing is there to find a good person, but it really dating culture is a disaster. And there's a lot of reasons for that. Right. A of really painful reasons for people really trying to find a good virtuous person. The breakdown of communication. Unbelievable. Right. Nobody really talks to each other anymore. There was so many people don't know how to express their feelings, express their wants, communicate and say, I'm not interested in pursuing a romantic relationship for you. And I just don't want to lead you on.
People just have a hard time saying that period, the breakdown of communication, as well as the fear of commitment. The fear of commitment, as I know you talk about on your podcast, the fear of commitment is so real for so many different reasons based on our own experiences as young people looking at marriage or looking at love, looking at relationships, we can fear commitment because we think commitment is a horrible thing, or we can fear commitment because of the next best thing, culture, right? Our culture is always offering us this menu of people
this, you know, like the next best thing is always around the corner. Someone I saw someone write recently, the grass is always greener in the next DM. And I was like, my goodness, that speaks so much to the culture today, because you could be in this great relationship. then another man DMS you he slides into your DMS. And you think, well, I'm having a little bit of a hard time in my relationship. Now, would things be better if I just ended this and went with this man, when the reality is that all relationships have troubles. And so I think those two
pain points are so real in the dating culture of nobody knows how to communicate and everyone's afraid of committing to something, especially for life, which makes dating very, very challenging. The search for love, very, challenging in this day and age.
Joey Pontarelli (10:11)
I couldn't agree more and I heard someone say recently too, there's kind of this animosity, I don't know if animosity is the right word, this distrust, this suspicion between men and women right now. Something happening in our culture where we think that, to sound kind of skeptical, the guys are thinking like, women just want me for a paycheck, they just want me for this and that to provide them a home, whatever, security, whatever. That's what some people would say.
And then, you on the other end, the women are thinking like, well, men just want to use me for my beauty and my body, like whatever. And then there is this kind of rift where we were really meant to be each other's helpmates. We were meant to be companions. JBT calls it like your life's companion, like so beautiful. And yet it's come down to this thing of like, well, I'm going to protect, I have to protect myself from you and in so many ways. And so I think that's another thing, at that I've seen that's underneath this kind of hesitancy, even pursue love. And even though we desire it.
So I'm curious your thoughts on that, before I throw it over to you, the other thing I see in this aposlet with me coming from a broken family, serving people who come from broken families, parents divorced, all that stuff, is that there's just this huge fear of potentially repeating your parents' mistakes through your parents' story. And there is data that says you come from a divorced family two to three times more likely to get divorced yourself.
So people feel that fear. That's probably the number one fear that our audience feels. And so yeah, I'm curious your thoughts on both of those things. Maybe the skepticism between males and females in our culture and then also this just deep seated fear of like, I just don't want to become like my parents. So maybe it's just better to not do it at all.
Emily Wilson Hussem (11:40)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the skepticism between men and women, it's so true. It's very real. And as I've been in the dating culture, right, with my matchmaking posts and really accompanying singles along the way, I've really encouraged singles to stop playing this blame game. So many people want to say it's the men's fault. So many people want to say it's the women's fault. It's a collective struggle for all singles, right?
And what I encourage singles as I walk with them in this is to say, what part have I played in this mess? Right? Have I been a person who's been terrible with my communication? Have I been the person who's really just brought my baggage in ways that hurt a lot of people rather than dealing with it as is appropriate and then jumping into the dating pool? Right? So the skepticism between men and women is a very deep pain point.
that is exacerbated by people pointing fingers, right? Instead of saying, how can we all heal? How can we really come to a place where it's not like, you're the problem, you're the problem, but how can we say there's a big problem here and we all need to gather together to change it and fix it? I hear from a lot of young men who are, you know, the messaging and the culture from women have been like, don't talk to us.
We don't want to talk to you. Don't lift our bags. Don't open doors for us. So they don't do those things. Like don't talk to us. Right. And you know, I'm painting with a broad brush here. So then they're like, OK, I won't talk to you. And then the women are like, men never ask us out on dates. Men never approach us at events. Men never do these things. And the men are like, you told us to stop doing things. And so there's this dynamic that's just like, my gosh. And then men are thinking women say like, ⁓
you know, a man who's forward and forthright. he's such a creep. So men are trying to find this balance line of like, how do I be forthright, but not act like a creep. And it's this whole game. It's this whole overthinking mess that if from a woman of faith, my standpoint that God never intended it to be right. So stepping back, right. And we can get to this a little bit later on through a sacred spark, which I know I'll talk about. We created a, just a resource called dating 101.
Because so many people think, how do I even date? How do I even, you know, get past this animosity or skepticism between men and women and actually know how to approach a woman? How do you be receptive as a woman? All these different kinds of things. And to your second question, coming from a broken family and that fear of commitment. So my mom comes from a very, very, very dysfunctional family, a family that had just problems as deep and wide as the ocean. And.
She was one of those people who decided deep within her soul, I'm not going to carry this on. Like this stops with me. And I'm sure you've talked with about that with people here on your show. She decided this stops with me and she had to believe in her heart that she could create with the Lord's help, a family that looked entirely different than the family that she grew up in.
that really came from being discerning about who she was dating and being really discerning about who she chose to marry because she could have taken those patterns into her life. Her father was a really, really rough, abusive man, and she could have in her life decided to repeat those patterns and say, this is what I'm used to. This is what I know. But she decided I'm going to look for the very antithesis of the way that I was raised.
And she chose my father who's such a kind and giving and faithful and loving man. And I think that that choice, right? That's a very difficult choice to say the buck stops with me. I am not repeating this. This ends here comes with a lot of for her, a lot of prayer, a lot of discernment, a lot of very hard decisions, but she
did what she set out to do with the Lord's help. And she created a beautiful, loving family that looks nothing like the family that she grew up in. I have three siblings, three girls and a boy in my family. are as tight as could be, as loving and caring and warm a home environment as you could possibly imagine. And my mom's story, I really believe for all your listeners out there, I hope that anybody listening who believes
There's no hope for me to create a beautiful, warm, loving home environment family. My mom is someone who you look at and you say like, wow, those patterns don't have to be repeated. And I can, there is hope to create a family that's beautiful and holy and a marriage that's beautiful and strong for everyone. And so much of it, she didn't know how to do it. But as a woman of faith, really, she says, she all tells everybody, I invited the Holy Spirit in every step of the way. I had no idea how to create a happy home environment.
I had no idea what that looked like. I didn't know how you cultivate it. And every step of the way as a woman of faith, she just relied on the Lord. Teach me how to do this. Holy Spirit, come into my parenting decisions. Holy Spirit, come into the way I build out this home with my husband. Teach me how to honor my husband. And the Lord was faithful to her every step of the way. And she's like a lighthouse for so many people who don't believe that it's possible for them.
Joey Pontarelli (17:03)
Okay, real talk, if you've been trying to get in shape so you feel better physically and emotionally but nothing is working, you're not crazy. I've been there myself. I recently read a free guide by Dakota Lane, a certified personal trainer who we've partnered with that's helped about a thousand people and it was really helpful for me personally. In the guide, he breaks down the biggest fitness mistakes that we all make, like under eating.
overstressing or focusing too much on the scale and it gives really simple practical tips that you could actually use that you can implement today. And so if you're tired of feeling like you're never going to get in shape, just click on the link in the show notes and grab the guide today. It's totally free and it might just be the thing you need to start feeling healthier physically and emotionally. So good Emily. I love that. And I think that's the solution. That's what we need to hear is that other people like us have done it. So you can too. And I love the focus on God's grace. I think there's a temptation for us to think that our lives and us
are the result of just nature or nurture. But I've heard it said that there's two other components as well, which is your will, the choices you make, and God's grace, which is for everyone listening who doesn't know, it's God's life inside of you helps you to do good, avoid evil. And so, yeah, we do have nature, we do have nurture, but we also have our wills we have God's grace. you know, taking all those things into account, looking at your mom's story, you can build a family different than what you had, what's the whole saying, you even if a...
If you didn't come from a healthy family, healthy family can come from you.
Emily Wilson Hussem (18:24)
Absolutely. I really want all your listeners to really believe that and I know you know how I talked to my mom in her 20s she Who knows if she would have said that's baloney. I would never believe it Like it's not possible right and I so get coming from a horrible environment that that skepticism or that cynicism or just that jadedness of it could never happen for me and it's true with God's grace with proper healing with
choices, the choices that you make, is totally possible for a beautiful family to come from you, whoever out there is listening, it is possible for a beautiful family to come from you, from your heart. Is it easy? No. But is it possible? Absolute.
Joey Pontarelli (19:11)
And going back to what we said before, that's probably the biggest fear that our audience struggles with is like the fear of becoming maybe like mom or dad or repeating the dysfunction that they grew up in. But their biggest desire is to build something different. And so in order to arrive there, you talked about healing, I know it's another conversation for another time. But a big piece of it, of course, is building a healthy relationship. And by far, as you well know,
the number one most important thing you can do when it comes to building a healthy marriage is choosing a virtuous spouse. So that brings us to Sacred Spark. But before we dive into the details of that, I'm curious, you mentioned that the dating world is so broken even in the religious Catholic Christian world. I'm curious, if you could change it with the snap of your fingers, what would you make it? What would be a thriving, healthy, beautiful, ideal dating world?
Emily Wilson Hussem (20:02)
That's a really great question. I think a thriving, healthy, beautiful dating world would be one in which people are actually taught about masculinity and femininity in light of God's design for it. There has been so much confusion, right? One thing, one document that changed my life as a Catholic woman, it's an encyclical called On the Dignity and Vocation of Women by John Paul II. It is life changing. Have you read it?
Joey Pontarelli (20:30)
I have him.
Emily Wilson Hussem (20:31)
is amazing. It's available on the Vatican website for anyone to read. used to make copies of it. It's part of my testimony of why I'm sitting here right now is that encyclical. picked it up after church one day from a woman's library. She had died and she donated her whole library to the parish and I picked up a copy and it changed me forever. really understanding, I think that what would heal the dating culture is if men and women really believed in the pit of their souls
that women bring special strengths to a relationship and men bring special strengths to a relationship. And it is not a contest of who is stronger, who brings more, who does this, who does that, but the feminine strength of nurturing, of caring, of warmth, of openness, so powerful, Men's protection, provision.
so far beyond financial, right? And I hear that all the time when men saying, well, on the first date, every woman asks me how much money I make and I'm totally sick of it, Provision, providing protection, also warmth, also openness in their own way, in the masculine way. A couple of years ago, there was this beautiful image that came out of Hurricane Harvey that I show in talks, especially for young people. And it was this man in knee deep water and he was carrying a woman like,
to safety wherever she was going. His boat was behind him and there was this woman and this baby was just laying on her chest sleeping in the midst of utter chaos. This baby is sleeping on her chest. The image is so beautiful. It's so poignant. And I really show that to young people to talk about masculinity and femininity in the sense of there's a lot going on here that shows the strengths of these two people, right?
This man protecting and providing, what is he protecting and providing her from this hurricane, but protecting her and providing safety, right? This refuge of safety for her in the masculine way. This woman is providing this refuge and safety for this baby in this moment. Not every woman will become a mother, but showing that nurturing safety that she can bring. These two strengths, we've forgotten them. They've gone to the wayside. People are so confused. And so I think what would heal is if people step back to say,
what special things do women bring? What special things do men bring? And how can we truly get back to that complementarity of the way God's designed it to be? Okay, I'm going to throw the question back to you. If you could snap your finger and heal and you could think of, know, a way, my answer was bigger than kind of one way, a way to heal the dating culture, what would your answer be?
Joey Pontarelli (23:07)
I think when we were last together in person, we talked about this a little bit, but exposing young people, especially single dating young people, engaged to really healthy marriages and families. And it doesn't, that's just like one piece of it. Obviously there's other things that would need to be done as well. I think, especially with my background, was just, I was so afraid of love. I was so afraid of marriage, even though I really wanted it. But seeing my parents' marriage fall apart, I was like, I just really don't want to go through that pain. And so I thought the best
safest route was to avoid it altogether. I think to see us as I learned that actually is very dangerous. Another topic for another time. But yeah, I think the thing that really changed my mind and my heart was seeing really beautiful couples, beautiful. There's two families in particular. think of all the time, the Cheethams and the colors and my goodness, just, but mom and dad loved each other so much and they would flirt and it was romantic. And even when they disagreed, it was respectful. They were
really loving to their kids, but they weren't their best friends. They were responsible parents, they had boundaries, and being in their homes, there was just such a peace. Like you could just literally feel it. And so seeing that contrasting against what a lot of people I'm sure can fill in the blanks of just a lot of dysfunction, conflict being handled so poorly, there would be yelling, just the total opposite, right? The total breakdown of any sort of healthy relationship. I think that's one of the keys because I think Jason Everett says this a lot, but it's
you know, so much more is caught than taught. And so I think you need to be like immersed in it. So I think that would be part of my solution. I know I've heard you say that too, that I'm man, I wish we could have like a come and see sort of like weekend with families. And so I think that's a big part of it is that those virtues, you don't really learn them from a book as good as that is. And we have friends who've written those books, you've written those books, it's beautiful. But as good as that is, you actually learn it by being in the presence of people and seeing those virtues and then trying to live them out themselves.
Emily Wilson Hussem (25:00)
parents of your friends or were those people at your church?
Joey Pontarelli (25:03)
Yeah, great question. mainly at church. Yeah. ⁓
Emily Wilson Hussem (25:06)
think that's, that's what I joke about. And your listeners might not, might've heard me say that might not have, but yes. And in Catholicism, right? If you're going to go be a priest or religious sister, you go to a formal common seat. And if you're going to go be a sister, you go with them and you live their life and you live the rhythm of their life. And you see, this life for me? And so I've joked about doing that for a family and coming for not just a day, but like a week or two weeks to be with our family.
and see what it is like. What is it like to have children who are seven, five, and one? It's pretty chaotic. after a week or two weeks with us, you'd really be able to discern, right? Is this something that I think God is calling me to? I think that would be an amazing thing. on the vision board for my life. Obviously, you'd have to vet great families and all these, there would be a lot of things that you would have to get in order to do something like that. But I think it would, ⁓ help a lot with that for ⁓ people to see healthy, wonderful, happy, holy families.
But also discern is this the path God wants me on specifically, or does being in this environment just make me want to run and flee for the hills? So maybe this isn't for me. I think it could do a lot of good, but we'll see if it comes to fruition one day.
Joey Pontarelli (26:16)
No, I'd love to work with you on that one day. Maybe there's some sort of collaboration or future because we, we started to pilot. won't go into this much. We started to pilot a program that we were calling the school of love where we would pair up, you know, young people, especially came from broken families with healthy marriages and families and we had to put a pause on it because it was just much more difficult to pull off than we originally thought. But I, but I think there's a real need and I'd love to work with you guys on that. Maybe someday in the future. We don't have the capacity now either, but yeah, so good. And yeah, yeah, we'll see where the future.
brings but okay so just to kind of resurface the conversation again everyone we're talking about how you know we all were afraid of love especially you come from a broken family because we don't want to repeat our parents mistakes but we also want love we deeply want that and so the number one thing we can do to build really healthy a healthy marriage is to choose the right spouse but it's really difficult to find good people that is where sacred spark comes in and so Emily like what is it what do you guys offer and maybe more specifically like what makes you unique than maybe everything else that's out there
This episode is sponsored by Black Zone Films. They just released a new documentary called Kenny. It's about an ordinary Denver priest who lived like a true father and transformed families and inspired vocations. He would actually wake up at 430 every day to do an hour of adoration. His parishioners would ask him to pray for them and they actually got those prayers answered. Some even call them miracles. He had to shepherd his people through the Columbine shooting, if you guys remember that.
Horrible, horrible event. He ate with the families in his parish every night of the week. He hiked with groups of young adults in the Rocky Mountains on Colorado, and he sat with couples on the brink of divorce, even saving a marriage, which they talk about in the documentary. And so if you want a hopeful model of leadership and fatherhood, something worth watching with maybe your spouse or your small group, watch Kenny. The trailer and the full film are now streaming on formed.org. You could just tap the link in the show notes to watch the full documentary.
or just the trailer. Again, thanks to Blackstone Films for sponsoring this episode and for telling such an inspiring story that I myself watched and really appreciate it.
Emily Wilson Hussem (28:17)
Yeah. So as my matchmaking post went on and on and I, you know, continued to do them. So many people were saying, can you categorize this by age? Can you categorize this by region? Can you categorize this by single moms? And I was like, there's too many categorizations. Let's make this official. And there were a lot of problems. Well, there was a lot of fruit. There were a lot of problems. If you were not following someone, you could not like direct message them. I was the only person who could see all the comments. were thousands and thousands.
But you could only see a subset of the comments if you were not me. So my husband and I, my husband who has a background in tech, he moved to America in 2015 and his first job here was a job at a technology startup. And we thought, well, what are the offerings for Catholic singles or we're as Catholics, we want to help Catholic singles in the church. We have a heart for all singles, but what are the options for single Catholics and how can we help them to meet? And so we just got going.
on sacred spark. So sacred spark is a, we don't call it a dating app because you don't date on an app. Really what it is, is a connections app. We're just connecting people, whether that's in the same city or my husband and I are from many, many thousands of miles apart. We dated from California to the Netherlands in Europe. That's a whole story for another day. A connections app to connect amazing Catholic singles and bring them together to build these amazing ⁓ marriages and if God wills families. a couple of things that,
are just hard about dating apps is really feeling like you're shopping on Amazon. You're just looking at a picture. You're deciding, do I like this picture? Do I not like this picture? You know, shopping on Amazon is not how we want connecting with amazing humans made in the image and likeness of God to be. So there are a few ways that we have made it hopefully to highlight the humanity of the person. can't do it entirely like you're meeting someone in person, but we want to help you meet in person. So you have to on sacred spark, you make an audio introduction. And I just think that
⁓ Being able to introduce yourself is so important. Hearing what someone says, right? And the funny thing is that on Secret Spark, ⁓ people go all different directions with this. Some people tell their favorite jokes, right? ⁓ I'll get to matchmaking in a moment, but I'm a matchmaker for my friend on the app, and so I can hear these men's introductions. And some of them, talk about what they love or who they are whatever it is. Some of them make jokes from their favorite show. If you just want to make jokes from the office, like the office is your jam.
or like Lord talk about Lord of the Rings if that's your jam, you just go for it. And the right person for you will be like, this is funny. This is interesting. Let's connect, you know? ⁓ And then there's a video option so you can make a video. And it's amazing to see how these people make their videos. Just like if you love cooking, you you're you're just cooking in the kitchen and you're like, I am Emily. I'm making my favorite chicken parmesan. Actually, I'm allergic to chicken, so I wouldn't be making chicken parmesan, but I'm making my favorite recipe.
And this is just me and I love cooking and this is what I love. There was a man who brought the video into his woodworking. He's a carpenter. So he's in his woodworking shop and this just brings him to life. I will. This is my carpentry shop. These are the things that I'm working on to really in the ways that we can bring people to life on a dating app. So you don't feel like you're shopping. You're looking at this man, seeing what he loves, seeing you like bringing you into his space and going from there. So those are a couple of the humanizing features that we want to make people realize.
This is we're not shopping for our products. These are people that we want you to connect.
Joey Pontarelli (31:40)
So good. then from there, once you maybe connect with them, there could be, is there direct messaging or how does it work?
Emily Wilson Hussem (31:48)
Direct messaging by the time this episode release we should have our video feature up so you can video call with them right within the app. We just want you to connect and go on a date as quickly as possible rather than this back and forth of like what is this? what are we doing? texting, texting, texting. No, no, no, we don't need to text and text and text some more. We just want you to go in person, whether it's ice cream, whether it's a coffee, whatever it is, just get out there and meet each other in person that we are the avenue.
for that, not just long-term communication that leads to nothing.
Joey Pontarelli (32:19)
love that, I remember Jason Edwards saying that, you know, imagine you're holding two seeds in your hand, and you don't know if the seeds are apple seeds or pear seeds, let's say. And he said, you you could bait it endlessly, you can come up with all the different reasons, this one's the apple, this one's the pear, you can look it up online, I'm sure, but at the end of the day, he said, you just have to put it in the ground and let it grow, and see what comes of it. And I think that's so true for, like this, I think it's so.
Yeah, it's so tempting right to overanalyze and to dissect and and I remember him saying, yeah, just like when something's healthy, you just like let it grow. And I think you have to give it a chance to grow to begin with.
Emily Wilson Hussem (32:57)
Absolutely and in dating right it's so important to remember that some of those seeds will become a little sprout and then you're like Okay, it didn't work. I met a girl last week at an event and she said I'm on Secret Spark and I went on three dates with a guy and then we just both realized like it wasn't the thing for us but it was a really positive thing we had positive dates and we just weren't the right fit for each other and I said and so you just you feel just like hopeful that your fit is out there and she's like Yeah, it was really positive and so so much of dating right?
is and this fear of commitment, lack of human communication is I want to figure out if this person is the one before I go on a first date with them. And it doesn't happen that way. In an instantaneous culture, let's say you want to learn more about some conflict that has happened over time, right? There's some war that happened way back in the day and you go and you can just look it up on Wikipedia and you go and you find out every single thing, every single battle that happened, every single correspondence happened in one minute. You know, all this information.
We want people to be the same way. I want to punch in this man's name, right? And know every single thing he's been through, all his trauma, all his stuff. I want to know it all because my brain has been conditioned to Google search something or Wikipedia something and know everything. And we have to take a step back to look at our lives and reality to say, people aren't like this. I can't Wikipedia someone and know everything they've been through. It is something that happens over time.
Is that frustrating in an instantaneous culture? Yes. know, Joey, for you, you and your wife, I imagine your relationship as you, you know, dealt with your own fears and all of the stuff in your life. was this learning to trust one another instead of this instantaneous like, everything's healed, right?
Joey Pontarelli (34:38)
Yeah, it still is. even, you know, even just different layers and chapters within marriage, I would 100 % agree. Yes.
Emily Wilson Hussem (34:44)
And it is this, talk about this, it's more like a blooming of a flower, right? If we're going for the seed analogy, watering the seed that sometimes becomes a sprout and it's not the right thing for you, or it might grow into an oak tree, right? If we're looking at this, not making everything so instantaneous, it's like the blooming of a flower. don't microwave trust. don't put it in the instant pot. like, oh, I trust this person fully, completely. It is like a flower.
that blooms and what does it need? needs sunshine, It needs sunshine and needs water. needs all these healthy things for it to open up. And that's really like vulnerability with someone else. It's really like trust with someone else. is this slow opening up that happens. doesn't just burst open. It's like, boom, like a firework. is a slow, beautiful process. I'm sure you could
You know, speak to that for your own life, the slow, beautiful process of learning to trust your wife and opening up to her and realizing that there can be a good love for you in this life.
Joey Pontarelli (35:46)
Totally. it's definitely, it's definitely tempting, you know, like with everything else in our culture, like you hit a button on Amazon, something shows up at your door in two days. It's like magic. It's crazy. It does not work with love. It's just different category. That's great. You can get your package in a few days that you're not gonna, it's exactly like you said, it's more like farming. It just takes time to see the fruit of your labor. And I think it's a really beautiful thing we need to remind ourselves of. And on that note though, I wanted to say, know we're close to the end of our time together, but I just wanted to say that I think sometimes people will think, well, I'll be fine without it.
or maybe there's like resistance, because like maybe the crowd is going towards like this dating platform is kind of what I call it. know, Sacred Spark, there's like, wanna kind of keep doing my own thing. And I guess the question to anyone who's in that category, I would say like, how is that working? And not in like a mean or skeptical way, but I was like, is it working? Like, have you met really good quality people? Are you going on dates or are you just maybe swiping? Are you actually like getting in the game essentially, or is this something that, ⁓ you know, it's just a thought, a fantasy, something that you're not actually
jumping into and so the thing I love about the focus behind everything you guys are doing at Sacred Sport is like you said, you want them to go on the date, you want them to actually be in person and get to know each other that way, not just, to know the person, not just know about the person, very different.
Emily Wilson Hussem (37:00)
Yeah, absolutely. I have ⁓ a sweet, amazing gal. She married my cousin. They got married when they were 38 and 40. And what she says is that like the best thing that she did was continue to put in the work to try to find this man who was my cousin. He's amazing. I can't believe it. I remember so many conversations where he said, I don't I don't know that I'll ever become a dad. I think that dream, you know, has died for me. And now I see him with his two small children. It's greatest thing ever.
But she says what I did right was continue to quote unquote put myself out there, which people really hate because somebody really you need to put yourself out there more and you're like, I'm trying. And she said, I put myself out there in like discerning right in wisdom. I took breaks when I really needed to. When I felt that fatigue, when I felt like this is really not working and I need to take a step back from the apps or just from, you know, unquote, putting myself out there. I need to take breaks and I need to rest and I need to recharge.
⁓ She said that's what I did right and she said that's what got me to like the perseverance and the stamina in order to keep putting myself out there to find my cousin who's an amazing man and she said had you told me I would have been a first-time bride at 38 she wrote about she wrote an excerpt for my social media for me to share with women had you told me I'd be a first-time bride at 38 I would have been utterly horrified. She said when I was young she said but to know that this was the man
For me, I would have been absolutely thrilled to wait until I was 38 in order to find him. Basically is what she shared. And so I think taking those breaks to rest and recharge is important. That's good. yourself out there and realizing, and this is what also what I want your listeners to hear, because I sit in a home that I share with a man who was from another country, right? So many times we box in how we think that our love story is going to go.
and how we think it's going to be and where we think we're going to meet the person. I'm going to meet the person. live in Dallas and that person has to be in Dallas. Don't be afraid to think outside of the box and don't be afraid if you're a person of faith to, to not put God in a box and say, this person doesn't have to live in my city. Right. And that's the beautiful thing about secret spark. Lots of people are connecting from states away, any states away. And it's a wonderful thing to say for long distance can work for the right person. And if I put in a type and in a box and I, I limit
this this idea of what this person where they where they need to live and how they need to be. I that word limiting I'm limiting God if you're a person of faith or I'm limiting you know what the possibilities could be for me. So never put it in a box and always take those breaks but continue to put that effort in to see what could come of those.
Joey Pontarelli (39:37)
I love it. Yeah, I I love your nuanced answer and I hope no one misunderstood me before because I yeah definitely agree It's it's hard. It can be really hard I'm in many ways grateful that I'm not dating right now because I think it is like I have friends and siblings who are in this world right now and it's a difficult thing but I love your approach of yeah, just you might need to take a little bit of a break just like you know your body needs a break from working out you maybe need a relational break from going out but it's so good and I think one of the things that came to mind before we close down here is when you're looking for a job
There might be a job in your city, in your town, in maybe the state or maybe the next state over, that would be a great fit for you. Emily, it's tailor-made for you, but you don't know it exists. It's not there. You don't know it, you're not aware of it. And so the way I see Sacred Spark in so many ways, it's like you're just connecting people. You're making them accessible to each other. And so that's why I'm such a big fan of just give it a shot. What do you have to lose? Really, nothing. If you play-
Emily Wilson Hussem (40:34)
you
Joey Pontarelli (40:36)
And what I was getting after is like, you play the tape forward of how things have gone in your past, like how will this end up in another five or 10 years? Not to scare anyone or make you afraid at all, but just to think, is it worth maybe trying something new? ⁓ That's maybe a question I'll leave everyone with. But Emily, I know we gotta jump, but feel free to comment on any of that and then imagine someone who wants to give this a try. like, okay, I'm willing to put myself out there. They're feeling a little brave, they're scared, that's okay. What are the next steps? Like tactically, I know this might.
the user workflow might change in the future, but what do they do? Imagine they download the app on their phone or they go on their computer. What does that look like?
Emily Wilson Hussem (41:11)
Yeah, so it is only on. ⁓ It's only an app, right? Okay, you can go on the App Store or Google Play, can download sacred spark. I really just encourage anybody who wants to download and see what happens just to be yourself. Don't overthink it. We want people to just have fun with it to be authentic to rather than fear the process actually enjoy the process of talking about yourself.
Talk about what you love. Talk about what you're passionate about. Bring someone into your life. The right person for you will be like, this person is awesome and amazing. And like you said, you don't know who lives even in your city. My sweet friend Jenny, she was on Sacred Spark the first week and she has now been dating for a couple of months her new boyfriend who she met on Sacred Spark and the Phoenix Catholic young adult culture. A lot of people know each other. A lot of people. Nobody knew this man.
People are like, where was this man hiding? Where was he? He never went to anything. He was just a faithful Catholic who lived in Phoenix who never went to anything. And now they have found each other and it's just an amazing thing. So just have fun with it. Enjoy the process. You can download it and just see what happens. We got a lot of people in their twenties and thirties, some people in their forties. ⁓
Even a couple of people in their 50s, the gal I'm matchmaking for, she's in her 30s. And so it's in a variety of ages. And we want you to just go for it and have fun and highlight who you are and who God made you to
Joey Pontarelli (42:32)
So
good, I know we could talk so much more Emily but it's so good to be with you and the one thing I would just encourage everyone to do as well like you said before just doubling down on this is that I heard a woman say she went on like a hundred dates which is kind of insane but she learned so much through doing that you know not everyone has to do that of course but she learned like the type of man that she wanted to be with she was able to tell pretty quickly like this is not a good fit for me so this whole idea I would just encourage people like quantity has a quality of its own and so it's not a bad idea to
to kind of a high volume and maybe for some people that's five or 10 or 15, 20 dates. know maybe sounds like a lot, but man, you will have so much more wisdom and know more of what you're looking for after that process than before. So if you want love, I would encourage you to check it out and see if it might be a tool to help you potentially find the right person for you. But Emily, always a pleasure. If people wanna find you online, where do they do that? We'll link to all this in the show notes, including that letter from JP too.
Emily Wilson Hussem (43:25)
Yeah, so you can download Sacred Spark if you look up Sacred Spark in either of those app stores. You can find me online if you Google search Emily Wilson. I've written seven books. My new one, Sincerely Stoneheart. Some of your readers are sorry listeners might have read. And then you can find EmilyWilsonMinistries.com everything else.
Joey Pontarelli (43:42)
Awesome, so good. Yeah, really grateful for you and for Daniel, the good you're doing in the world. Just giving you the final word, what final encouragement or advice would you give to everyone listening, especially those listening who want love but they're afraid of it because of the dysfunction that they come from.
Emily Wilson Hussem (43:56)
There is hope for you. Anybody listening out there, I want you to hear the word hope. I want you to let it, you know, just come into every cell in your body. As a woman of faith, I believe there's hope in Jesus. I believe that in the dating culture, there is hope. And I meet so many singles who are looking for an amazing person with so many different backgrounds, so many different upbringings, but they want a healthy, wonderful, beautiful relationship. If that's what you're seeking, there are so many people out there seeking that alongside you.
There is hope for you. Believe it and know it and know of my prayers for you.
Joey Pontarelli (44:35)
Sacred Spark has so many unique features like their matchmaker function where can actually invite a friend or family member to be your wingman or wingwoman on the app. Super unique. But the main benefit I'd say of Sacred Spark is that you'll actually be able to meet people like you who value what you value in a new way that's not transactional but deeply human. And so I highly recommend just downloading the app just to check it out. By the way, if you hate it, you can always delete it. In fact, I spent years as the COO of a startup
tech company. And one of the things I learned through that experience about any new app or technology is that the best way to learn it and to experience the benefits of it is simply by signing up and clicking around the app, literally just playing with it. It's that simple. And so at the publishing of this episode, you can actually join Sacred Spark for free. That might change in the future. And so just click on the link in the show notes and download the app so you can check it out. Again, I just encourage you to click around and see what it's like. And if you hate it, you can always delete it.
Now, if you're not ready for that, I recommend watching Emily's free video series called Dating 101. There's also a link to that in the show notes. With that, this episode is a wrap. If this podcast has helped you, feel free to subscribe and rate or review the show. You'll avoid missing future episodes and help us reach more people too. And in closing, always remember you are not doomed to repeat your family's dysfunction. You can break that cycle and build a better life. And we are here to help. And keep in mind the words of C.S. Lewis who said, you can't go back and change the beginning.
but you can start where you are and change the ending.
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