#154: Should I Reconnect with My Estranged Parent? | Kreed Revere

For so many of us from divorced or dysfunctional families, the tension with our parents doesn’t just fade. It can grow into silence, distance, or even a total cutoff where we can become estranged from each other. 

But what exactly is estrangement, why does it happen, and how can you rebuild an estranged relationship? In this episode, we discuss that and more:

• The subtle ways parents (and children) unknowingly push each other away

• Why grief is often buried beneath family conflict—and how to face it without getting stuck

• When reconnection is wise—and when staying estranged might actually be safer

If you’re dealing with an estranged relationship, this episode is for you.

Visit Kreed’s website, TheEstrangedHeart.com

Get Dakota’s FREE Guide, The Biggest Fitness Mistakes to Avoid

Get the Book or FREE chapters: It’s Not Your Fault

Get the Guide: 10 Tips to Help Someone Whose Parents Are Separating or Divorcing

Full Disclaimer: If you purchase through the links on this page, your purchase will support Restored at no additional cost to you. Thank you!

• To leave feedback, comment below or contact us.

Enjoy the show?

To be notified when new episodes go live, subscribe below.

As a bonus, you'll receive the first chapters from our book, It's Not Your Fault: A Practical Guide to Navigating the Pain and Problems from Your Parents' Divorce.

TRANSCRIPT

Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!

Joey Pontarelli (00:03)

Welcome to the restored podcast. I'm Joey Pantarelli. you come from a divorce or a broken family, this show is for you. help you heal your brokenness, navigate the challenges and build healthy relationships so can break that cycle and build a better.

My guest today is Creed Revere. Creed knows what it's like to be cut off from the people that you love. She was actually estranged from both of her daughters at one even her own parents. And that painful journey led to deep healing and to her work now as a certified estrangement coach. And today she helps parents and adult children rebuild trust, navigate all the emotional disconnection that can be present within a family, and pursue reconciliation when it's possible.

And truth is for so many of us who come from divorced or dysfunctional families, the tension with our parents doesn't just fade, it can actually grow into silence or distance or even a straight total cutoff. And we can become estranged from each other. But what exactly is estrangement? Why does it happen? And more importantly, how can you rebuild in a strange relationship?

In this episode, we discuss all of that and more, the subtle ways that parents and children unknowingly push each other away. We hit on if your parent has a mental illness, can the relationship still be healed? We also talk when reconnection is wise and when perhaps staying estranged is actually safer.

Creed also shares real life tactics to set boundaries, test the waters and reconnect without diving in too deep too fast. We hit on why grief is often beneath family conflict and how to face it getting stuck. And then finally, she also shares stories of real transformation and healed relationships. And so if you're dealing with an estranged relationship, this episode is for you. And with that, here's our conversation.

Joey Pontarelli (01:43)

Creed, it's great to have you here. Thanks for coming on the show.

Kreed Revere (01:45)

Thanks for the invite, Joey. I really appreciate it.

Joey Pontarelli (01:47)

I think this topic is so relevant to our audience because so many, parents, but especially the young people that we serve who come from, you know, divorce or dysfunctional families are dealing with estrangement at some level. And so I was really excited to talk with you. So my first question is how do you define estrangement? Like, is it always this kind of full on cutoff, no conversation, or can it be more subtle?

Kreed Revere (02:07)

No, it's much more subtle. It's a spectrum. It really is. There's considered low contact from that emotional distance, right? Where I'll take a phone call here and there and I show up at Christmas or of thing. But other than that, there's a removal from life in general, if you will, all the way up to full no contact at all. So definitely on a spectrum.

Joey Pontarelli (02:32)

Okay, that makes sense. And why does this typically happen? Why does this strange one happen? Like, I'm curious, what are some of maybe the common causes that you see in your work?

Kreed Revere (02:40)

The first and foremost is emotional, that emotional disconnection. there's not an emotional connection. We can be in someone's physical space, we can be in...

relationship with them but not emotionally connected and that is the root right we and there's reasons for that but that's the main piece of it there's been some sort of what I call a rupture to that emotional connection and there hasn't been a repair to it.

Oftentimes we'll see chronic invalidation seems to be at the root of it. That's my own personal experience as well. And it's really significant. And I see that a lot with younger people when they are talking with their parents about things and their parents are chronically invalidating them. And so that is, and that causes emotional ruptures all the time. It just across the board. If I'm not validated, I'm not seen, I'm not being heard,

we have that piece of things. You know, there can also be traumas that happen, right, that can cause, and if we're looking at divorce and things like that, that's, it's a trauma that anyone goes through. It doesn't matter how old you are, how old your parents, you divorce happens. So there's traumas, there's, those types of things tend to be, but at the root of it all is that emotional piece. It does it every time.

Joey Pontarelli (03:36)

Wow.

Okay, no, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I definitely have experienced that in relationships where you're just kind of missing each other or even intentionally kind of taking that like emotional space, which I'm excited to dig into curious, what's an example of like invalidation that you've seen in your work? Because I think people kind of understand that, but I'd like to maybe spell it out a little bit further.

Kreed Revere (04:18)

Sure, and this is something when I am working with parents, they are clueless about validation and what that means, truly. So invalidation is...

know, Susie comes home from school and she's had her feelings hurt by her best friend, you know, Sarah. And Susie's mom says, well honey, know, Sarah really cares about you. I'm sure she was just having a bad day and maybe she was having some issues that we're not aware of. And maybe just, you know, try to look at it from Sarah's perspective.

Joey Pontarelli (04:53)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (04:53)

invalidating. That's invalidating Suzy's perspective, Suzy's feelings, what Suzy has been experiencing and going through. And so most parents, a lot of older parents, ⁓ were brought up with that, you know, trying to see the other side, put yourself in the other person's shoes, those types of things, and totally ignore what the child has brought to the table about their own feelings and what they are experiencing.

Joey Pontarelli (05:20)

Okay, yeah, I'm tracking with you there. And what I hear you saying too is that essentially it's almost like they're skipping over, they're skipping over the pain, they're skipping over the struggle. They're maybe trying to, I don't know, maybe force a resolution or like you said, focus maybe too much on like the other person. And I'm sure we're going to get into this, but might as well answer it now. What would the right approach look like in that situation? Like she comes home from school.

has had this kind of hard day, conflict, what would be the right thing to say in that scenario?

Kreed Revere (05:48)

Wow, that sounds like it was a really hard day for you, honey. I am so sorry. Sarah's your best friend. That had to have hurt when she snapped at you or she whatever. How do you think that, how do you think that maybe, could that be resolved? Do you think it's something that, you know, maybe she had a hard day, but.

you had a hard day too, so what do you think might be the best solution? So in trying to acknowledge her feelings, acknowledge that she's having a hard day and that's her best friend, and there's been conflict, and then asking for her input on is there a way to resolve this, and getting her buy-in with that.

her participation in finding her own resolutions and solutions to the challenges that she's facing.

Joey Pontarelli (06:35)

Okay,

that's super helpful. So start with empathy, put yourself in the child's shoes in that situation. And I know we can apply this really in a relationship, but, then from there, instead of maybe forcing or, you know, telling them the solution, making sure that they're a part of coming to the conclusion of like what they should do about it. So that makes a lot of sense. I'm excited to go deeper there, especially as it relates on maybe the other side of the equation. I'm curious, you kind of alluded to having personal experience with this.

Why do you care so deeply topic about a strange man helping people reconnect?

Kreed Revere (07:05)

I've lived it. My daughters both estranged from me, my only children. They both estranged from me at the same time in 2016. And I've also been an estranged adult child three separate times with my mother and once recently, as recent as last year for a very short period of time with my dad thing. So I have that experience and that led me to become the estranged my coach that I am today.

Joey Pontarelli (07:28)

Okay, I'm sorry you went through that. That sounds hard. know that a lot of people come to light with you. Parents listening who've been on that side of it, but also young people listening who maybe have been estranged from their parents. One thing we hear all the time from the young adults, the young people that we lead, that we serve from, know, divorced or dysfunctional families, they say things like, my parents want to even acknowledge the pain that I've gone through when our family fell apart, when they separated or whatever.

particular thing happen in their And kind of like we were talking before, really just looking for empathy. They're looking for some sort of acknowledgement. But what would you say to them, to someone who maybe who's been met with silence, who's met with defensiveness, and maybe even blame in some cases? What would you say to them?

Kreed Revere (08:10)

first, want to validate that pain. mean, and it's valid. It's valid. All of your emotions that you're feeling in the case of divorce, entire, your world has just been shattered. The world that you have known it to be for however long that has been, right, has just shattered.

Joey Pontarelli (08:22)

Mm.

Kreed Revere (08:29)

you have every right to feel all the feelings, the whole range, the whole spectrum of feelings. And it's important to know that this was not your fault. is between mom and dad and what has happened here with the parents in separating, but it has affected you, right? But you're not broken and there's not anything wrong with you, but...

acknowledging and taking ownership of I have a right to feel this. And oftentimes our parents are in a place where, and I've experienced this too myself, when you're going through a divorce as a parent, you're so wrapped up in the hurt and pain you're having because of the end of this relationship, right? And then trying to navigate and figure out do I...

Joey Pontarelli (09:08)

Totally.

Kreed Revere (09:14)

how do I do life as a single parent now, a, you know, what have you. And so there's a lot of emotions and complex emotions that are happening through that entire situation. So my suggestion is to always try to seek out support and support from someone who can help to hold that space. So oftentimes we, and we can talk about this later in other areas, we get into what I call our echo chambers.

Joey Pontarelli (09:23)

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (09:39)

where somebody's just kind of feeding us what we want to hear. And I think it's important for someone to be able to hold space without trying to fix or solve and without trying to feed us all the things we want to hear. that make sense?

Joey Pontarelli (09:53)

Yeah, no, that's helpful. That's a tricky balance for sure. yeah, I'm sure we'll go deeper into that, but I'm curious off the top of your head if any way of like not falling into either extreme.

Kreed Revere (10:01)

I think it's number one, trying to find professional support. So now a part of that is gonna depend on how old the person is, the child is. But finding professional support, someone that can allow you to explore, that's the curiosity is my word in my coaching Without curiosity, it's hard to do a whole lot of things, to have awareness, have, figure out solutions and things like that. So having someone that can help us to

explore our emotions and then when we are ready and then to branch out from there and explore other things that can help us to decide what's the next best step, right? Not the next journey, but the next step.

Joey Pontarelli (10:43)

Okay, no, that makes sense. just wanted double down on what you said about parents going through this situation. think one thing that's been helpful for me understanding my parents when they were going through their divorce was just exactly what you said, how overwhelming it is and how it's really too much to ask of anyone. know, like in my case, my mom was the one who was at home with us. Dad left the house and... ⁓

she had to do two roles. She had to, you know, take care of all of us kids. It was just a lot to, manage. so I think, I think that's been helpful for me and like, her and you know, the whole forgiveness journey and things like that. But, ⁓ but you know, at the same time, like we can still validate and say, Hey, you know, just because they had a lot on their shoulders, they still, you know, and I'm not necessarily saying this directly about my mom, but they,

neglected you in certain ways, or maybe there was harm because they were spilling their emotions over onto you. I think that's such a common experience. don't know, maybe this exists out there, but I haven't really seen a divorce where that doesn't happen. I think that's just so, so common that I know there's this kind of idea out there, which I would argue against, that there's this good divorce. I think in every divorce, it's like,

It's hard. It's everyone, everyone involved is going through a lot. And so I think it's really common to, be hurt, to be harmed by that. And certainly there are varying degrees of harm and severity to get that. And sometimes there's a necessity for but it, it's a hard thing to go through. And I think, ⁓ taking that perspective of like, man, my parents were going through a lot. they did the best they could with that, capacity they had. But if we were looking at it objectively, their capacity should have been larger and this thing, you know,

hopefully wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Kreed Revere (12:18)

Exactly. does. It happens with every case. One of the things that I think is important to remember in this is grief.

There's so much, this is a significant loss. It's a loss of the family as you've known it, whether you're the parent or you're the child. It's the loss of dreams, it's the loss of expectations of what my life was gonna look like. I'm gonna graduate college and both my parents are gonna be there and all the things and now that's all shattered and what do I do with that? Where do I even go?

the same thing on the parents end, right? This loss of dreams. And by and large, we're a culture that doesn't, we don't do anything with loss and grief. And it is such a significant part of my work because...

Joey Pontarelli (12:54)

No.

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (13:00)

Obviously there's loss and grief that comes with the estrangement piece, but way before we even get to estrangement, there's been significant losses that haven't really been, in my opinion, tended to with compassion and empathy and just holding that space to allow all of the emotions that exist within grief and loss.

Joey Pontarelli (13:22)

So good. I curious. We've spoken about grief a bit on the podcast. We've never done like one exactly on this topic, which we need to do in the future, curious, like maybe one insight or one like helpful of advice for anyone who's like dealing with grief. Like obviously there's like the different stages of grief and things like that. I'm curious if there's anything in particular that was like really helpful for you or helpful for your clients when it comes to this whole idea of grieving.

Kreed Revere (13:45)

First of all, getting comfortable with saying. I'm grieving.

even recognize that that's what's happening. So we have to name something before we can really do anything else from that point. we don't even know what we're dealing with, it's hard to know which direction to go. So it's in naming, I'm grieving, and then understanding that grief is not linear. That's the biggest thing. I should be over this by now. I should be at this point. I should no longer be angry. should not, no.

Joey Pontarelli (14:00)

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (14:15)

our notions, everyone deals with grief differently and it is, have you seen those graphics that are like just this knotted ball of yarn kind of thing and that is grief. I mean, your emotions are all wrapped up in it. It's not this line of yarn that is just going across straight and it's marked by these intervals of these different emotions and processes. It's this ball of,

Joey Pontarelli (14:25)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (14:45)

tangled emotions and we have to feel them, all of them, and learn how to express them in healthy ways, right? But all of them should be given the space to be honored to include the less than pretty ones.

Joey Pontarelli (15:00)

that's super helpful. And I think we all have the tendency, especially here in America, just like move fast beyond it, outrun it. And think a lot of times I heard a quote once from another podcast where they were saying, you you imagine like a swimmer in a water who maybe it's a woman who has like long hair as long as she keeps swimming fast, that long, dark, messy hair won't catch up with her.

the second you stop, then it kind of can entangle you. And that's a scary thought for a lot of people. So, that makes sense kind of making space for, just, you know, acknowledging like, Hey, I just experienced a serious loss, which it's tricky. we see in our work so many, so often, because divorce is so common in our culture, not really treated very seriously. It's like, well, you know, a lot of people go through this. end probably being okay. You're going to be fine too. You're resilient and all that.

And so I think that's a big part of this particular grief is like, well, first we need to call it, like you did a trauma, a really difficult thing to endure. ⁓ but then from there, giving yourself the space, like you said of, know, yeah, just feeling whatever it is you feel and, you know, understanding, like you said, that it's not going to be this pretty like clean cut process. It really is a difficult thing.

Kreed Revere (16:08)

very, very, very difficult. ⁓ And then you have the guilt that's grief, right? And especially in this case, for children, what could I have done different? Was it my fault? ⁓ if I had only did what dad said for me to do, this whole thing wouldn't have happened if I had only this. Same thing for the parents. There's a lot of guilt wrapped up in it, which is also why we want to run.

We don't want to feel that piece of it. So my work is has a lot to do with the less than what I call happy happy, joy feelings, right? So I sit in the space of all the ick if you will right the the difficulty motions that no one wants to venture into that's my world That's that's where I feel comfortable in because I have been through so much of it personally and have learned

Joey Pontarelli (16:48)

the difficult emotions and yeah.

Kreed Revere (17:00)

how to navigate that and honor that and be with and it has absolutely transformed my life by learning how to do that.

Joey Pontarelli (17:07)

Wow.

How so? I'd love to get into that if you're comfortable with it. And I had another question about grief. Maybe let's start there. What sort of transformation have you seen personally it comes to grief and moving through it?

Kreed Revere (17:18)

Personally, I've had, I mean my entire life is about losses. It's funny because I'm in the middle of writing my memoir right now.

And this morning I was just going through talking about the grief and thinking, my goodness, have, like, you know, sometimes you just stop and think about all the life events you've been through and when you're writing a memoir and you're trying to compile this, it's really kind of in my face. And so my parents have been, you my parents were divorced. I started that off when I was little. I've been divorced. There's job losses. There's been, I haven't experienced death.

a lot my grandmother has passed away. I I was very, very young when my paternal grandparents passed away, but my losses, my grieving have come from the loss of dreams, the loss of expectations of what I thought my life was going to look like at a particular point in time. And so when I got in therapy and really started processing those,

and learning that all of my emotions were okay to feel because I was ⁓ shamed for a number of years for being, I was the angry child. ⁓ And so was really shamed for showing the less than happy, happy, joy feelings. ⁓ And when I got and made friends with those feelings, that's when my life started to transform. I was no longer resisting what I was experiencing.

Joey Pontarelli (18:29)

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (18:39)

I was living it and that is where the transformation happened. And I think that's why I can sit with people now in those spaces because I've been there and I did it with myself first. Does that make sense?

Joey Pontarelli (18:53)

Yeah, no, it

absolutely does. And you've been through a lot. That's heavy too. Everything that you've been through. And I'm really glad you're in that better spot now. I love what you said though, kind of the fact that you, it's not like you snapped your fingers and you solved your grief in the sense that like, it's all, the problem's gone. It's that you've kind of learned to live with it.

which maybe isn't the most encouraging thing for people to hear who maybe had an expectation that like, if I just like grieve and I go through like this five step process or whatever, that I'm gonna be able to like put this all behind me and life will be happy and things will be better. But I think what you said is so wise because the kind of lay person definition of grief that I've come through is it's basically just the process of the messy process we could say of just accepting life after a loss.

Kreed Revere (19:15)

Okay.

Joey Pontarelli (19:40)

like this new reality in your life after a loss, is easy to say, hard to do. But yeah, I think there's something so important in that that it's messy and not like the loss goes away once you have grieved it.

Kreed Revere (19:51)

No,

it's actually something that I think I consider the fuel for transforming me. so and when I say transforming,

consider it like fire, fire transforms things and it can transform for the good and it can transform for the, not so good, right? But if we're looking at it from the perspective, how can I utilize this experience and this grief that I'm feeling to transform me in a way that's going to move me forward in my life and allow...

me to incorporate that grief into my world instead of fighting it and trying to force it to go away. That's where that resistance comes in and that's what keeps people stuck. I deal with this every day talking with the strange moms. There's such significant grief and they fight it and they resist it and they feel all the shoulds and I shouldn't be here and I shouldn't this and that and the other thing. And when we can come to that place of acceptance.

Joey Pontarelli (20:35)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (20:48)

this is what it is, this is what I'm living, this is what I'm experiencing, I'm just gonna be here with it for a minute. And then we learn to slowly incorporate it back into our life instead of pushing it away. And that's when you start to see transformation and see people actually making progress to move through the grief instead of being stuck in it.

Joey Pontarelli (21:06)

Okay, real talk, if you've been trying to get in shape so you feel better physically and emotionally, but nothing is working, you're not crazy. I've been there myself. I recently read a free guide by Dakota Lane, a certified personal trainer who we've partnered with that's about a thousand people. And it was really helpful for me personally.

In the guide, he breaks down the biggest fitness mistakes that we all make like under eating, overstressing, focusing too much on the scale. And he gives really simple practical tips you could actually use that you can implement today.

And so if you're tired of feeling like you're never gonna get in shape, just click on the link in the show notes and grab the guide today. It's totally free it might just be the thing you start feeling healthier physically emotionally.

Joey Pontarelli (21:44)

I

love that. You made me think of, I'm going to butcher this, is it the Stockholm paradox? I can't remember where you kind of have this grip on reality, this view of reality that's just so like realistic. It's like, no, I can see clearly you know, how bad things are or the reality of things, like what, what, they actually are not making them.

rosy and better than they are, them worse than they are, but you see reality as it is. But at the same time, you have like an optimism that no, no, things can be better. I'm going to work hard to make that happen. I forget exactly. I heard Jim Collins in the business world talk about it, but I can't remember the name of it. does that ring a bell for you?

Kreed Revere (22:19)

feel what you're talking about. I don't know the reference that you're making. yes, there's this place of... Our culture and society teaches us to push and force.

Push past the pain, you know, no pain no gain. you know, just like this steady force to make something happen and make something go away generally, right? Unless it's that happy happy joy joy stuff I mentioned. And when we can stop that and settle with this is my reality right now, but it doesn't mean I have to stay here.

because there are possibilities. When we get curious, can uncover some possibilities and things like that and we can ease into it instead of us forcing things to happen. And I see that again in estrangement so much, so much trying to force things to happen and that's what can lead to estrangement and that's what they try to do, parents try to do when we're talking about reconciliation. They're trying to force things to happen instead of allowing.

being patient, practicing the pause as I say. We have to practice the pause and be patient, right?

Joey Pontarelli (23:24)

Mm-hmm.

That's really good because of hitting on another you're hitting another point that our audience, you know struggles with at times and that is maybe mom or dad Recognized that they need to do or say something that they haven't said or done in the past whether it's an apology or just taking ownership of What's happened in the family or whatever? It looks different in different situations But it might feel like you're saying like so forced and in genuine even though, know I'm sure there's a good intention behind

that it's really hard to receive. It's like, yeah, I know you're kind of just saying that because maybe I express frustration that you haven't said it, but I don't know if this is really coming from an authentic place.

Kreed Revere (24:02)

bingo. Yep, I see that all the time, all the time, right? And when I'm working with my coaching clients, that's what I'm talking about. And in support groups, I'm saying we have to get to a place where you can allow your adult child to have their feelings and their separation from us if that's what they need in this moment, right? And not forcing your

what you need, what you want, but making space for them and their needs and their wants. And that is such a hard place to be for a lot of parents. And so they will go into this space of, okay, I'm sorry, I won't do it again, and this type of thing. And I tell them, I'm like, your kids know.

I said they know if you're being real about this, if this is authentic, they can sense that and feel it. So you have to do this work on your end before you do that, which is why we need to practice the pause.

Joey Pontarelli (25:00)

Mm-hmm.

Okay,

no, that's helpful. And is there anything in addition to the pause that's helpful in order to like be genuine, whether that's a parent who's trying maybe have a conversation or reconcile with their kid or a child, you know, a young adult, let's say who's trying to reconcile with their parent, is there anything else that can be done to?

bring that like authenticity. Cause that like we're saying that can't be forced, but at the same time, it might need to be worked toward, would assume, because, you know, if you just wait around expecting it to like happen, fall out of the sky, that's not going to happen either.

Kreed Revere (25:33)

No, from my perspective, parents need to do their own inner work.

Without doing that, it's hard to come to that place of authenticity and being able to truly hear your adult child. really, it's difficult to do because your own stuff is getting in the way, your own triggers and things like that. Once you can get through that piece of things, then we move into this, how can you be curious about your child, right? Parents get into this, I know my kid, I've lived within their entire life, I know them, I know who they are, I know.

and things like that and I'm like but you don't you've had this estrangement experience unless you've asked them you don't know what their experience is or has been so we need to get curious around that and then we also need to move what I call moving from that manager role as a parent to more of that consultant role getting their buy-in checking in with them what do you need from me in this moment

when you say you want me to do A, B, and C, what does that look like for you? How can I show up for you? Instead of making assumptions and assuming that you know what they're asking for. And parents aces at that, myself included. I know my kid, I know what they want. When they say this, I know what they want. And it's eight times out of 10, it's not what you think it is.

Joey Pontarelli (26:47)

Yeah. Yeah.

Totally, and on the other side of the spectrum with being child, think what often happens, what we see in the young people that we mentor is that they actually are hesitant to open up. So mom or dad might ask them and they don't really give an answer or if they do, it's not the full answer. So I think it sounds like this is something that happens and over many conversations where there's trust that's built and things like that I what we see and this, I felt this with my parents too.

as soon as they separated and broke the news, I trusted both of them really deeply and it felt like all that trust had just shattered. And I'm not saying they were like bad people. I'm not saying that they were intentionally harming us, but it hurt and it was harmful. so definitely see how that would be the case as well.

Kreed Revere (27:36)

Trust is everything. And in every bit of my work, that's what I talk about. We're doing this so that we can rebuild trust with your adult child. And that doesn't come overnight. And I use the example to them. I'm like, your spouse comes home and you find out they've had an affair. Okay, so.

They come home and they go, ⁓ you know, it's been six months. Why are you not over this? Like, what is the problem? Get over it. I'm not doing this anymore, right? I said, are you inclined to just open up the trust doors and let them walk through? And every one of them go, no. And so I say, okay, so here we are. Same thing with your adult child. This trust has been broken, so we have to rebuild that trust, and that is slow.

Joey Pontarelli (28:13)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (28:23)

and very tiny baby steps that makes that happen and consistency.

Joey Pontarelli (28:27)

Okay.

Yeah, I was curious, what are the kind of ingredients or components of trust? way one component, you know, like you said, is consistency. So it's, you over time, it's something that you're doing again and again, but what are the other components that you see?

Kreed Revere (28:40)

that patience piece and being able to take it very, very, very some glimmer of hope or some glimmer of, they hear me. We're moving in the right direction and then we wanna jump right in.

because there's been this loss, because there's been this separation, and we want to feel connected again. And so we want to jump right in and then we overdo. We start pushing, we start we start making suggestions and all those types of things. And then the adult child goes, whoa.

and this is way too much too soon, right? I have a lot of parents who talk to me and they'll say, so how long is this whole coaching thing, this process? mean, what, six months? And I'm like, I've got clients I've been working with for three years. a long, slow, methodical process, right? And then once you've reconciled, then that becomes a whole nother journey in maintaining that, yeah.

Joey Pontarelli (29:14)

Yeah.

Hmm.

You too, sure, yeah.

Okay, no, very good. When it comes to curiosity, I'm curious kind of the components of that too. what does that look like practically maybe either a parent to a child or a child to a parent when they're trying to, and when I say child, I mean like an adult child, but yeah, I'm curious like what that might look like practically to be curious and use curiosity.

Kreed Revere (29:56)

It's to start with, I'm curious. What does this feel like for you? What was that like for you when I came to you and I said such as such? What was, you know, I'm curious, I wanna know more. Can you help me to understand? not sure I understand, and this relationship's really important to me, and I wanna understand, right?

It's that piece, it's coming in with questions but not interrogation. And there's a difference. I come from a police world and so I tell parents all the time, don't interrogate your child. Don't pepper them with questions. We want to come with compassion and gentleness and tenderness and a curious mindset. And if that means that you need to preface it and been saying, I'm curious, I don't know how to move forward from here.

Do you have some suggestions? That vulnerability piece, and that I think is what stops a lot of people from being curious because you have to be vulnerable to be curious. Yeah, it's really

Joey Pontarelli (30:51)

is scary. Yeah, it's a hard thing,

agree like there can't be trust without it that the curiosity piece asking good questions. That's one of the things I hear you saying like asking good questions you know being careful not to make it sound like an interrogation like you're squeezing information out of with your intention. I kind of heard that and what you said to where you're just kind of explaining here Here's why I'm doing I think sometimes people can be a little suspicious of like are you?

using this as like ammunition to hurt me in the future? Or is this genuinely something that you want to, relationship you want to like, you know, rescue? And, and then I think underneath it all is that assumption that you don't know everything. like you said before, like you don't fully know this person maybe they've changed and there's something new that they haven't shared with you. And I think that's always the case. I know, even thinking like with my wife, it's like, you know, you've been married seven years and it would be easy for me to assume like I know.

pretty much everything about her, I love that assumption that no, I don't, a person's like a universe or an ocean, you can always continue to explore and learn new things about them, so I think that's really helpful in these conversations.

Kreed Revere (31:52)

Yeah, another thing that I would like to offer to here, because this is so prevalent in the estrangement world parents, is older grew up at a time when being curious was not encouraged. As a matter of was discipline.

for being curious, remember the whole curiosity killed the cat? ⁓ Right? And so a lot of parents grew up with that. So when I am working with parents, I learn quite quickly that sometimes they do not know how to be curious. So a lot of my work is in teaching.

Joey Pontarelli (32:14)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (32:29)

teaching parents and helping them to open up and feel safe enough to ask questions. Sometimes they feel stupid for asking questions, they feel like somebody's gonna make fun of them if they ask questions, things like this, so they will not. That's where a lot of the assumptions come in, because in statements versus questions, because then I don't necessarily have to be vulnerable and open to ridicule or punishment or those types of things for being curious. There's a real campaign

be a real roadblock there. So I just kind of FYI for some of the children even parents who may be listening to this, where is the level of curiosity? What is that for you? Right? And if there is a resistance to that, where's that coming from in likelihood? Very much so it's probably childhood things.

Joey Pontarelli (32:59)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Okay. That's really good.

And I like that, like, you know, avoid making statements unless there may be there like empathetic statements and then ask questions. And I imagine you want to ask open-ended questions, not like questions that could be answered with a yes or one other question about grief. think one of the fears that a lot of people have is that they're going to get stuck in it forever. It's like, Oh, if I go down into that hole, I ain't coming what would you say to someone who

is facing that. Because I think they might look around in their life and see people who might be in that place where they, whether they've fallen into victim mentality or they just you struggling with learned helplessness or something like that extent. So that's kind of like the far end of the spectrum. But I'm curious, like, what would you say to someone who's maybe afraid of going that route?

Kreed Revere (33:59)

That's a normal feeling. Totally, totally normal. Like I have to normalize all of this, right? It's really normal to feel that. willingly just jumps off the deep end into unknown waters? mean, most people are like, no.

Thank you. I don't know what's on the other side of that, right? So it's a very normal thing. The second thing I would say is to don't do this without some sort of support. And I mean, when I say support, understand not everyone has access to professional support, but find someone that can hold that. Someone who's always trying to make you happy and joyful and that's not what I'm talking about. Try to find someone who is curious about your sadness.

and can they sit with that, right? And then have a conversation with them. I really feel like I need to process some of this grief and I don't know how. you just be with me while I try to try some things on for size? And that kind of person can typically hold the space enough for you to feel like you're not drowning.

Joey Pontarelli (35:00)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (35:00)

and you can enter into it. And that's another thing, jump in from the deep end. tell parents all the time, stick your toe in the water first. Just put your toe in the water. You don't have to go deep into things until we're ready for that. Take it slow, yeah.

Joey Pontarelli (35:07)

Yeah.

Okay,

that's helpful.

That's helpful. And on that note, I'm curious, the first step that you recommend, and before I go into that, let me just say, I love the suggestion for professional help, going to therapy, to a competent therapist, maybe someone who you know has helped someone that you are close to, ⁓ has good referrals, things like that.

That's kind of one simple way to find someone good. But if you can't, obviously, there a lot of ways to find someone then, like you said, too, a coach or a mentor even if you don't have access to.

you know, funds to pay for that or things like that. So I think mentors in my life have been really huge. And so I think that's another good, good option. But I'm, curious though, like as a, maybe a first step to someone who is shifting from grief to estrangement now, let's say someone's estranged from their parent, let's say in this situation, and they want to begin to reconnect, what's maybe the immediate thing that they can do right now to take that first step.

Kreed Revere (36:50)

before the first step is determining what are you wanting from the reconnection? Because I think that sometimes that can be driven by a sense of guilt. I need to reconnect with my mom because she's sad and she's telling everybody, all of our friends and family that she just can't get out of bed and so I have this guilt and so I want to reconnect. I would.

Joey Pontarelli (36:52)

Yeah, go for it.

Kreed Revere (37:12)

offer some caution around that because again, you're probably, it's, we need to want to come back and reconnect with people that we feel safe with, that we want to maintain a relationship with, and sometimes if we're doing, we may not be ready right now. Okay, so this is another piece of my work in that

The bulk of my work is in helping people to repair their relationships. I want people, I want parents and adult children to be in relationship with each other, if at all possible, right? Sometimes that means we have to take space. And sometimes that space is needed on one end, but not the other, hence the estrangement, and we have to determine when we're ready for that. We may try and then...

Joey Pontarelli (37:42)

100%.

Kreed Revere (37:59)

we may have to take a step back again. So in that reconnection, figure out first, what are you Are you wanting to face some hard things and maybe have some hard discussions, ⁓ challenging topics and things like that? Or are you wanting to go in to this only to stop the pain?

because if you're wanting to just go in, if you're wanting to go in to stop the pain without having done some work and really processed and figured some things out.

it's likely that you will re-estrange down the road. And then we've just, we're on a cycle, right? And we're repeating things. So the goal is, I would rather, I tell my clients, I would rather you and your child take some distance, and if that means five years, eight years, whatever, right now, you can come back in a very healthy way later that's lasting and sustainable.

that I feel is best than to do this in and out dance because we haven't done some things that we need to do beforehand. that, I don't know if that answers your question.

Joey Pontarelli (39:05)

Yeah,

no, I'm taking it all in. I was just thinking of a recent interview we had with Cole who shared his story, you know, going through his parents' divorce. And he kind of became like diplomat, peacemaker, kind of a therapist in a way to his parents. it all caught up with him. It was just too much for him to bear. he, you know, at one point through the process, he had an option of kind of stepping back. He didn't do that initially, which

Now looking back, he's like, I wish I would have done that. then eventually it just brought him to like a breaking point where he's like, I can't, I have to step back. And so he, you know, took some time away from, you know, his parents, his sister, even I believe if I remember right. yeah. So, so I think, you know, he, missed that first opportunity, which he wishes he would have had, but then eventually he recognized that he needed to step back. So I think that's good advice. I can't recall exactly how long it was for him, but I think it was about a year.

And then he started to kind of resume and restart the relationships. And I think things have, you know, not been perfect, but better through all that.

Kreed Revere (40:02)

Sure.

again, kind of think about life. There are times when...

whether we've been dealt a hand in life or by our own making, we've chosen to step back. isn't working for me in this moment and I need to figure out why it's not and what do I want from this relationship? What am I looking for in this relationship and can this other person help me to achieve that? Can I help them to achieve what they're looking for? Kind of thing. Now there is a power differential that I talk about often ⁓ in parent and adult child relationships that you

have in others, right?

So that sometimes there's things that are a little bit different where that's figuring out what do I want out of this relationship is a good first step before we actually reach out. And then from there, if you have determined this is, I've done some healing work, I really want to reconnect because this relationship's important to me and I want to do whatever work is needed to get this back on the right track and be healthy and sustainable over the years, then I think in reaching out,

you have to kind of test the waters. It's a risk, It's a risk. There's really no, no way around it unless you have family and friends who have said to you, I know that you're having a tough time with your mom right now. And I just want you to know that.

I just saw her the other day she's like a different person. She's changed in this way. I've seen that she does this differently. Those types of things are good indicators that maybe there's been a shift in... ⁓

Joey Pontarelli (41:25)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (41:35)

you could venture back into that and with a little more emotional safety ⁓ kind of thing. But outside of that, it really and if your parents you don't you you haven't had communication with them so you don't know for sure you have to kind of take a risk. Now I'm also a person who does mediation with parents and adult children so something that you could also reach out to a coach or a mediator or someone to you know I have kids that reach out to me and say hey could you

Joey Pontarelli (41:39)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (42:04)

contact my mom see if this is something she's open to and ready for and things like that.

Joey Pontarelli (42:09)

That's neat, I've never heard of that. That makes sense. I've heard of it through like legal proceedings of a divorce, but that's cool with an estrangement between parents and children. I'm curious, what are some of maybe the common or hopes for the relationship, like when you're considering re-entering relationship or kind of overcoming the estrangement, however you'd say that?

You know, what are some of the green lights? Like we mentioned that if you're just doing it out of guilt or solve some pain, maybe that's not a green light and not a good sign, a good reason to do it. But what are maybe some of the good signs that someone would know? yeah, this is like the right motivation, the right timing.

Joey Pontarelli (42:43)

For countless teens and young adults, their parents' divorce is actually the most traumatic thing that they've experienced, but so many feel lost and alone in navigating the challenges. I've been there myself. It's really not easy and it shouldn't be this way. My book, It's Not Your Fault, guides them through those challenges by helping them put their pain into words and begin to heal, work through the emotional problems that they face, cope in healthy ways instead of falling into bad habits, improve their relationship with their parents, navigate the holidays and other life events, and build healthy relationships and so much more.

One Amazon review said this, this book is packed full of really practical help. If you come from a broken family, or even if you don't, but you love someone that does, this book is so helpful. I can't recommend this enough. By the way, it's a quick read and it doesn't need to be read cover to cover. Since it's in question and answer format, you can just read one of the questions and one of the answers. And so if you want to join the thousands of people who've gotten a copy, just go to www.reswordministry.com slash books.

to get the book or download the free chapters. Again, that's restoredministry.com slash books or just click the link in the show notes.

Kreed Revere (43:46)

I say when we can look at another person, so if you're an adult child you can look at your parent and say, wow, yep, they did a lot of things that hurt me and they're human. I don't know what this is gonna look like, but I'm willing to give it a go. ⁓

that's usually a really good sign. If you are the opposite of that, if you are still in that deep pain and that hurt and you're calling your parent all the labels that are out there for parents today, that's probably not a good time to reach out because there's a lot of lashing out that typically happens with that. So if you feel like you've kind of moved beyond that, I'm not minimizing the pain, there's still pain and pain that needs to be, parents need to take account

for and those types of things and tough conversations that need to be had but that

deep lashing out, if there's not that feeling, that's a good indicator that you're in a different place and reaching out could be beneficial. Boundaries, gotta have some boundaries in place, right? And I think a lot of people get boundaries confused and they use them as walls and protection versus...

So if I may share an example, my father, I mentioned a brief estrangement with him last year. And I had to, the reason I took the space from him was because I had to figure out where are my boundaries with this. What can I How can I be in relationship with him without it sacrificing my own mental health? So I took a few weeks, I guess it was about a month.

Joey Pontarelli (45:19)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (45:22)

apart from him for me to figure that piece out and I worked through it with my therapist.

then I was able to come in and I wrote him a letter. And that letter simply said, know, I love you, I always have and always will. And this no longer works for me. You know, I will not, a lot of I statements, I will not be in relationship with someone who speaks to me this way. So this is another thing, communication and how we're wording things. When we're doing you statements, there's a lot of pointing the finger and so then

Parents get really defensive, vice versa. Kids get defensive. So it's in using those I statements, this is what I need for me to be in relationship with you. And as long as that is met, let's give this a go. And that's where we've been. I've had to implement those boundaries twice now. And I had to get up and leave the conversation boundary was crossed. But I didn't.

Joey Pontarelli (46:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (46:20)

I didn't raise my voice, I didn't throw a temper tantrum, I simply said, this conversation is no longer working for me, I hope you guys have a good day, and I picked up my purse and out the door I went. That kind of boundary, that's what I'm talking about, right? it's in figuring out where do your values lie, what am I willing to engage in, and maybe here's another piece to parts of life are uncomfortable.

Joey Pontarelli (46:32)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (46:45)

And we have to be able to tolerate a little bit of uncomfortableness, right? I am not saying abuse. I am not saying to be, that is not what I'm talking about. But if something is, you're like, that landed a little sideways for me. That's a little uncomfortable. know, feeling, this feeling of being uncomfortable.

That's an invitation to what? Okay, there's something here for me to explore, right? And to take that and go with it. So does that answer your question?

Joey Pontarelli (47:09)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah, no, it's definitely a complex, there's a lot of complexity to this, but I love the simplicity that you bring to it and that like tactical practical stops. it just, think one of the lessons in all of this is common commonality between different or strange mints, but it sounds like each of them has their own particular challenges that you kind of need to work through. And that's where having a therapist, having coach, having a mentor who could help you through it is just really wise.

One question on the note of, you touched on this a bit already, but I'm curious if there's anything you would add. know, when is it actually healthier maybe to remain as strange for a season and, know, are there, again, we touched on this a bit, but I'm just want to give you a chance to add anything else. there any, you know, red flags that would say maybe it would be premature, unsafe?

Kreed Revere (47:55)

Yeah, when a parent is not able to take accountability for things, they're not in a place to do it. For whatever reason. There could be their own traumas, their own things that they're experiencing. And that needs to be worked through before. Because if they're not able to take accountability, they're not going to validate your experience and your feelings. And that...

Joey Pontarelli (48:00)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (48:18)

back in square one, with kind of where things were at to begin with. So if they're not able to take accountability, if they're not able to have empathy for you and your experience, again, accountability and understanding and seeing where you're coming from, if there is

Joey Pontarelli (48:20)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (48:38)

invalidating, ⁓ know, pointing the finger, this is all your fault, those types of things, this is, that is, it's, keep the space, right? They're not ready. if I could ask one thing of adult children, regardless of your age, is understand that

Joey Pontarelli (48:54)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (48:59)

Oftentimes, a parent may not be ready it has nothing to do with you.

This doesn't have anything to do with you. It has to do with their baggage, their childhood traumas, their things that they have not resolved. So if they're not in a place where they can take accountability, it doesn't mean it's your fault. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It does not mean that, okay? It means they are not in a place in their life for a whole host of reasons.

Joey Pontarelli (49:33)

Mmm.

Kreed Revere (49:34)

where they can meet you and come

to the table and have emotional maturity, take accountability, some responsibility, and be able to see things through your eyes be interested in your experience. Bottom line. And that when things like that happen, it's better to pull back, keeping in mind that your parents are human too.

Joey Pontarelli (49:56)

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (49:57)

Right? So my father in no way, or form emotionally He's 80.

So I have to determine how I need to manage me in order to stay in relationship with him. And that's where my, I'm able to do that now because of the healing work that I've done in therapy.

Joey Pontarelli (50:05)

Sorry.

That's such a difficult spot to be in, I love that you've had growth and you've become a better, stronger person who's better able to navigate and handle that. That's amazing. And I want to shift back to boundaries a little bit, because I think again, we touched on this a bit, but I think people will maybe find themselves in this spot where it's like, well, I don't totally want to cut someone I certainly need some boundaries in place because the way maybe things are now, I'm kind of emotionally getting beat up again. I'm not saying it's abuse, but it's just not the healthiest spot for me to be.

I remember just to kind of piggyback on your story, I was in college and dad who was just going through a really hard time, his brother had died and kind of was in a talisman. He's just some struggles with mental health and things like that. And, know, was treating people the way that I don't think people should never be treated and doing things that I...

disagreed with and I felt as if if I were to continue my relationship with him, was almost be as if I was like tacitly approving his behavior. And so I did what you did and I wrote him a letter and I explained like, Hey dad, I love you. I want a good relationship with you. But as long as you know, maybe I didn't say this perfectly, but as long as behaving this way, as long as I see, that, you know, there's people that I care about her being hurt.

can't have that relationship with you, but as soon as I see signs that you've transformed, I'd be happy to resume to restart the relationship. me, it was, I think like a year and a we were apart, but he did kind of come down, know, settle down and got to a better spot. And, you know, we have a much better relationship today. So I think a lot of people, you know, that was kind of maybe one of those extreme examples of like, Hey, I got to cut things off for right now. Hopefully not forever.

But maybe people are in this space where like, do I put those other branches in place? So you already gave good advice on that. I'm curious if there's anything you would add.

Kreed Revere (51:57)

Yeah, you know, people, communication is another piece to this, right, and being able to communicate. And it's hard to communicate when our nervous systems are completely dysregulated because we're seeing and hearing all the things. ⁓ And so have to get ourselves to a place where we can regulate the nervous system and get to a state of calm, as calm as we can, and then to determine where are my boundaries,

What

do I need in order to allow this relationship to continue? What does that look like? those things out. With boundaries, I am a fan of communicating that even if at first that person on the receiving end is not receptive. But we need to communicate them, right? Because otherwise we're expecting someone to know something or infer something that we...

they have no knowledge of, right? And we're holding them to standards that are unfair because they haven't been informed. So we try to inform people, whether that's through a letter, I don't encourage doing that through a third party, that is oftentimes what you will see. Well, you go tell so and so, I can't do this, that, and the other thing. I'm like, no, we can't do that, that's not healthy. You know, it needs to come from you. And if it's not safe to do that in person,

Joey Pontarelli (52:50)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (53:15)

where you feel that that's not gonna be heard, oftentimes writing, writing an email, writing a letter, a card, that kind of thing can do that. But it's in letting them need in order that you value the relationship. See, I think this is the piece that's missing when it comes to boundaries. People don't express that they

the relationship. They want it to be in a healthy way, right? And so people then get defensive because they feel like the relationship is at risk, they're no longer cared about, they're no longer wanted, and that this is all just going to go away.

Joey Pontarelli (53:36)

Totally.

Kreed Revere (53:46)

And so they get really defensive. And then we have all sorts of issues with the boundaries. So communicate that the relationship's important to you and that you want to be in relationship with them, but we all need to be emotionally safe in doing so. And then when this happens, then let's come back to the table and have a conversation around that. And that usually, you know, I have parents that bring me letters that say, so this is what my kid wrote and said. And I tell them.

Joey Pontarelli (53:51)

Hmm.

Okay.

Kreed Revere (54:14)

all of that's very reasonable. How did you feel when you got it? I was furious. I was so mad, right? And they're just very defensive. And so we work through that and we talk through why maybe the child's asked for these types of boundaries and to understand that. But I think sometimes boundaries can be weaponized. And that is my only caution is to try to work with them in a way that doesn't weaponize them against the other person because that's just going to make them defensive and not receptive to anything.

Joey Pontarelli (54:17)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, that can get real ugly real quick when it's, you know, used as a form of punishment. I remember seeing image of a newspaper and an obituary section, this was years ago. And it was for a mom who had died and the children, apparently like there was just a lot of that she had caused. And they said something really aggressively, like there'll be no burial, there'll be no services, like she's being cremated and that's it.

some nasty comments about like her past and her treatment of them, which, you who knows? Maybe it was honest, but it was like, man, that could be, it can turn real nasty real quick. So I think that's wise advice to kind of check yourself and to kind of be the bigger, stronger person when maybe you are tempted to, like you said, weaponize or use them as a form of punishment.

Kreed Revere (55:25)

I get it. When we're hurt, right, when we're hurt, we're just like, ⁓ my gosh, you can't do this anymore. This is crazy making, right? Like this has gotta stop. And again, that's usually coming from a dysregulated nervous system, and so we're just reactive rather than being responsive to the situation. And that's a large part of my work too, is helping people to learn how to be responsive rather than reactive to things.

Joey Pontarelli (55:26)

Yeah, me too.

Okay, that's really good. If we had more time, I would go into all of that. couple of final questions. we talked about before how you were kind of making a judgment on how mom or dad will react when we try to reconnect or communicate some things. Let's assume the relationship is estranged and we're trying to reconnect. And you said it's important to kind of understand how they're gonna react. Any tips on kind of figuring out...

or guesstimating how they might react. You had mentioned before maybe talking with people who know them or trying to understand like have they changed, things like that. But especially when you're at a distance, it can be really hard I'm sure to kind of figure that out. So I'm curious if you have any tips for someone who's like, man, I would like to reconnect with mom or dad, but I just don't know where they're at right now. How could they figure that out from afar?

Kreed Revere (56:32)

I am actually currently working with an adult child right now. That's kind of the scenario that we have going on. And I have encouraged her to send emails that are very short and checking in. Hey, ⁓ I'm curious about your thoughts about this or that or what have you. Wherever like a main sticking point was in the relationship to gauge and see. Number one, we're looking, is there a response at all?

Is there a response? Because if there's no response, then that's a different route we need to take, right? But if there is a response, what is that response? Is this person open and you feel like they're kind of curious, they've maybe done some work around something or they're working with someone and things like that. That's a safe way because it's an email. ⁓

Joey Pontarelli (57:05)

Right.

Kreed Revere (57:22)

or sending a card or something like that in the mail versus a text and having access to your phone and those types of things, it feels a little more.

safe by email and I encourage that. Outside of that, again, it's difficult because if your parent hasn't reached out, when I'm working with my clients, I am encouraging them to write amends letters and we talk about apologies and things like this. So if you receive something like that, that's an indicator that they've made some.

steps forward and trying to figure some things out and do things differently, if you will. That kind of thing. it's a risk. I keep coming back to it's a risk. is no way of knowing unless you put yourself out there kind of thing. There are some safer ways of doing that. Like I said, the email, reaching out to someone, a professional person who could potentially reach out. A therapist usually can't because of

Joey Pontarelli (58:01)

Yeah, it is.

Kreed Revere (58:16)

their ethics and professional relationship. But a mentor or coach could potentially do that on your behalf to check in and see they're at, that kind of thing. Yeah, it's really hard. It's hard.

Joey Pontarelli (58:27)

Okay. Yeah, that

is hard. it brings me back to what we said before where, you know, there's these young people who are just in pain from everything that went to happen in their family. And they might, you know, have never communicated that just out of protection for their parents or self protection. so I love your encouragement to see if there might now might be the time.

for that and testing the waters. think that's really, I love that tactic of the emails and seeing if now might be the time and it might not be, but it might you can open up a little bit more. And I like the idea of like a letter where you could communicate, hey, this is what I experienced, what I went through. So, so good. Thank you for going into the weeds with all this. know it's super tactical stuff, but I appreciate Before we close down to two final questions, one,

I'm sure you've dealt with situations where maybe a parent has a mental illness. That's something that keeps popping up again and again for our audience. any particular tips or advice around navigating that relationship when the parent has a mental illness.

Kreed Revere (59:21)

acceptance of where the threshold is. Someone may not have the ability to meet you where you need to be met, right? So really in accepting that when it comes to a mental illness. And sometimes it's, have to, have, this is so hard. My heart is, I deal with this personally and professionally every day. It's very difficult.

to want and need something from a parent. And you can't get it because of a mental illness. It's really, really difficult. But we have to come to that place of accepting where they are at.

this is their capacity and again kind of do I have the wherewithal for me to be able to meet them on this level where their capacity is or do I not? And sometimes that can be an evolution sometimes right now you can't.

down the road maybe you can with some healing work and things like that, right? So it's in understanding where the capacity lies because outside of that, I mean, we're placing ourself in a position to experience further harm, further injury, emotional harm and emotional injury.

then where is that going to lead us if we have family or you know how are we able to show up for our people in our world if we are sacrificing everything on this end to try to force something to happen that someone doesn't have the capacity to do. And that's not fair to them as well right. I just had this conversation with my sister a few weeks ago. It's like this is where dad's at and expecting him to show up differently.

Joey Pontarelli (1:00:49)

Right.

Kreed Revere (1:00:58)

expecting and asking too much of him. He can't, he doesn't have the capacity to meet you where you want him to be. So how can you come to a place of resolution and peace to meet him where he's at or to disengage, right? And that's, you know, that's up to her to make that call. So that, it's a tough thing. ⁓ And again, sometimes people can get some support around that and get into therapy and begin to work in

Joey Pontarelli (1:01:17)

Yeah.

Kreed Revere (1:01:25)

process through things. That is one of the things that happened and I'll be just honest and I don't know that I've ever really talked about this publicly but I've had that with me. I was in a very not mentally well place raising my children.

and coming into the estrangement is what catapulted me into therapy for doing my own inner healing work. And when I was able to do that, I've done a 180. My girls say are so not the person you used to be. And so when people, when there is a drive and a determination to do things differently, and I'm

Joey Pontarelli (1:01:55)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (1:02:01)

I'm not talking schizophrenia and things like this. I'm talking some of the lower level mental illnesses. People can change. I don't want to tell people to just shut the door think that it can never change. But I also understand the need to, I have to move on with my life. And right now this is where they're at and this is where I'm at and they're not meeting, they're not matching. Does that make

Joey Pontarelli (1:02:25)

absolutely. I think that's why it's, think so often in life know, maybe we speak out, we put boundaries in place, you know, forgive, we do all the things. And then it comes to a point where it's like, okay, the problem here is like, I'm expecting them to be someone different that they're, like you said, not capable of being. Now, of sure some people are hearing that.

may push back and be like, no, someone can always change. And I think there's some truth to that, but I think there are real disabilities that just like physical disabilities, someone can't physically do something. I think mentally, emotionally, there are those disabilities figuring out like what they're culpable for, what they're not, that's a tough conversation. have not mastered, I don't know, I couldn't draw a line in those cases, but.

But I think you're adjusting your expectation, recalibrating your expectation to match reality is really, really wise. You had mentioned that, yeah, you've had these beautiful transformations in your own life. I was curious if you'd share maybe a little bit more, especially maybe about your relationship with your daughters and then if you've, yeah, any cool transformations you've seen with your clients as well.

Kreed Revere (1:04:02)

I again, I've done a 180 I was very much an authoritarian parent. I mentioned like a law enforcement background and so it was my way or the highway and there was no room for emotional anything. Everybody was cut off at the knees when it came to anything emotional except me. I was allowed to have emotions and anger and all the things but no one else in the family could. So my children grew up with that and then

The estrangement happened and my entire world collapsed unlike anything I had ever experienced in my life. As a matter of in my notes this morning on my memoir I was saying I had always said everyone in my life, I knew everyone at some point in time would leave me and my life except my kids. I just felt my kids would never leave me and then they did.

flipped my world upside down. I went through eight years of therapy and four years into our reconciliation we were estranged for a year with one daughter and two years with another daughter. I had grandchildren involved with this and so there were broken relationships with that and I mean it was just, it was a whole ⁓ mess. In the grand scheme of estrangements that's a pretty short estrangement, a year or two years in the work that I do. So...

We reconciled and the first four years or so I kind of walked on eggshells and didn't know what to do and was scared to death that it was going to happen again and all the things. And then one of my daughters learned that I had a podcast and she had listened to it. And she said, I think we all need to sit down and talk. I think there's been some misunderstandings. And I was like, wow.

okay, let's have this conversation. And it was the first time we had talked about the estrangement. So that was four years after reconciling and that...

Joey Pontarelli (1:05:41)

Wow.

Kreed Revere (1:05:51)

enlightened me in ways that I was like, my gosh, this is, how did I not know this? How did I not recognize these things? So I immediately took all of that back to the therapist, continued my work and that type of thing. And today I have a beautiful relationship with both of them. It is not anything like it was in the past and that's another piece to this work is a lot of people want, they tell me, I just want things to get back to the way they were.

I just want it to be like it used to be. I'm like, can't. I can't. Your entire world has changed as theirs has.

And so when we come back, and it was unhealthy if it got us to this place where we're at, an estrangement. So we want to come back into a healthy place. And so our relationship, my relationship with my daughters looks vastly different than it did before the estrangement. And it's beautiful. Yeah, it's not perfect. We still have our struggles, but we know how to come back and do repair now when there's been a rupture. There's curiosity, there's hay.

This might be hard to hear mom, but this is what I'm sensing and what I'm feeling. Am I on the right track? And they call me on my stuff and I don't get defensive anymore. I'm like, oh my gosh, thank you for letting me know. I had no idea. Now I have something with kind of thing.

So that was my story. have one particular, gosh I have several stories here. When you sent me this question I was like, my gosh, how do I narrow this down? a client, she came to me after her second estrangement with her daughter. And she was just a complete.

Joey Pontarelli (1:07:09)

Beautiful.

You

Kreed Revere (1:07:28)

mess. I mean, sobbing, couldn't hardly talk through our first couple of sessions and she just kept saying, I just don't understand how I got here. I don't understand. She's never going to talk to me again. How do I go on with my life?

things. And so we've worked together, we've worked together for about two years now and last summer she reconciled with her daughter. They've been reconciled, well this month is a year ⁓ now and the last reconciliation happened for about six months and before they restrained again. And ⁓ she is doing life vastly different with her daughter and I love hearing she's in my Reconciled Moms support group.

updates all the time and you know she was over for what was it Mother's Day they had an occasion at Easter time she was over there for Easter and she has a relationship with her grandkids now and she talks about how she's curious about her daughter.

Joey Pontarelli (1:08:19)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (1:08:26)

She asked her questions, know, help me to understand what was that like for you? I know my side of that, you know, when her daughter brings up things from the past, she's like, I know my side of that, but I wanna learn what your side was like. And that is the work. And so now her daughter tells her, has told her multiple times over this last year, I can tell you've done the work, because you show up differently today. You're curious about my life.

Joey Pontarelli (1:08:51)

Wow.

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (1:08:53)

and

it, I get emotional about it because it is such a gift to give to your children to be interested and curious about their life. What makes them happy? What makes them sad? What do they think about on a day-to-day basis? What are their fears? How can you show You know, I think all the time, think parents, gosh, if you knew your kid was sick, physically ill,

Joey Pontarelli (1:08:57)

It's beautiful.

Kreed Revere (1:09:16)

You would take them to the hospital, you would take them to the doctor, you would go to the ends of the earth to find a stop whatever this was that was hurting them and causing them pain. The same thing happens emotionally. We have to go to the ends of the earth, from my perspective, to try to figure out a help this pain to stop for them, if at all possible.

We may not have all the parts and pieces to that, right? There may be other players involved, but owning our part in that, it's a gift unlike anything you could ever give to your child. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. Sorry.

Joey Pontarelli (1:09:51)

Beautiful. No, don't

be sorry. That's beautiful. And I love the transformations that you've seen in your own life and in the lives of your clients. And I think it's it's so hopeful, right? It's that, you know, we're not doomed to continue on having these strange relationships, these relationships that have rifts without, you know, repairs, all that stuff. so yeah, no, think it's really beautiful. So thank you for sharing. Thank you for coming on the show. ⁓ A couple final things.

One, if people wanna learn more about you, where do they go and what exactly do you offer if someone's interested in working with you?

Kreed Revere (1:10:21)

Thank you. They can go directly to my website, theestrangedheart.com. I have a podcast by that ⁓ same name, The Estranged Heart. And I offer one-on-one coaching. I have a membership group for estranged moms and reconciled moms. And so I do a lot of work there. We have book clubs inside those memberships. We have webinars. It's always about learning and unlearning and learning and growth and evolution. And that is the focus of the work that I do with folks in healing.

generations, we want to the ruptures that happen within these and learn how to be healthy with one another, not just physically, but emotionally as well.

Joey Pontarelli (1:11:01)

Love it. So good. Well, again, thank you Creed for coming on the show and want to give you the final word. What final encouragement, advice, or maybe even a challenge would you issue to everyone listening right now, especially, you know, children of divorce, children of dysfunction who are estranged from mom or dad, what would you say to them?

Kreed Revere (1:11:18)

Reconciliation begins with reflection. We can't move forward without understanding where we've come from. We can, but it's not generally in a healthy way, in a sustainable way. So being able to reflect and figure out where you came from and how do I want to move forward. think keeping curiosity as your best friend.

and really getting curious about people as well as yourself and helping to understand you better so that you can come home to you because in the end, regardless of where your relationships lie, the relationship with yourself is first and foremost. In the work that I do, I teach that with the parents as well. I think for the adult children,

Be curious without correction. So offering options, suggestions, you know, that type of thing. hear, oftentimes, I hear adult children say, I'm not talking to you until you go to therapy. You've gotta fix this, whatever this is, right? And that's

It's a form of correction, like you're not right and you need to fix this. You need to correct this. Instead, mom and dad, I know I've been helped by therapy or by a mentor or what have you, and I know how it's changed my life. I'm wondering if the same thing could help you. ⁓

Joey Pontarelli (1:12:28)

Mm-hmm.

Kreed Revere (1:12:41)

right? Offering that type of curiosity. I wonder, I do that often within the work that I do. I do it with my kids. I'll simply say and people say, how do you do that? I'm like, this is exactly what I do. I wonder what it would be like if I had support that someone could help me work through this.

It's almost like without that direct eye contact, it's like they, it's not an attack. It's not a judgment on them that there's something wrong with them. And if we can present it in a way that's curious, I wonder what it would be like, that kind of thing. So for them and for yourself, I wonder what it would be like to be in a healthy relationship with my... ⁓

Joey Pontarelli (1:13:10)

Hmm.

Kreed Revere (1:13:27)

could that look like? I think sometimes we'd spend a lot of time focusing on what isn't working and what it looks like when it doesn't work. Do we know what it looks like if it would be working? What would that look like? And then finally, my biggest thing is you're not broken. You're hurt. There's been pain and there have been challenges.

but you're not broken and you have the ability.

to step into your life. I know you have courage. It took courage to navigate this separation of your parents and this divorce and all the things. you're here with us today. You have the courage to step into challenging situations. And you will come out on the other side of this. If you have support, get yourself some support and work your way through it. Don't allow this life experience

to keep you stuck. Figure out a way to work through it so you can come out on the other side and then turn around and use that for good for someone else.

Joey Pontarelli (1:14:30)

One thing I'd challenge you to is that if you know someone who really needs to hear this episode, like a parent, a friend, or anyone, know, think about sending it to them. I'm not saying you have to, but think about sending them the link. You can say something like, hey, I listened to this podcast episode and thought it might help your situation, what you're going through. Or I heard this podcast episode and thought it'd be really good for us to like sit down and talk about it. Something like that. Again, you don't have to do that. Just a suggestion. That would be my challenge. But with that,

That wraps up this episode. this podcast has helped you, feel free to subscribe or follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. You'll avoid missing future episodes and help us reach more people. And if you've already done that, feel free to rate or review this show. We really appreciate that feedback. And that also helps people find the podcast as well.

In closing, always remember you are not doomed to repeat your family's dysfunction. You can break that cycle and build a better life. And we are here to help. And keep in mind the words of C.S. Lewis who said, you can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.