#049: Healing from Your Parent’s Infidelity | Katie
What would you do if you were 12 years old and you accidentally found out that your mom is cheating on your dad? That’s the exact situation that today’s guest faced as a little girl.
We discuss how she felt that her mom not only cheated on her dad, but on her and her siblings too. Plus, we get into:
The ways in which her mom’s infidelity wounded her
How that wound was reopened when two boyfriends cheated on her in high school and college
The connection between her parents’ divorce and her desire for control in life and relationships
How on the external, everyone thought she was fine since she excelled in sports and school, but she was really hurting inside
One very common factor at the root of so many divorces and affairs
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Imagine that you're 12 years old and you accidentally find out that your mom is cheating on your. What would you do? That's the exact situation that my guests today face as a 12 year old girl, like absolutely devastating. So sad yet. It's so common infidelity is so common. In fact, as you probably know, it's one of the top causes of divorce and it's absolutely heart wrenching, not only for the spouse who is cheated on.
But also for the children who were equally cheated on and abandoned. And so in this episode, my guest and I discussed that and we talk about the ways in which her mom's infidelity, wounded, her. She shares how that wound was reopened. When two boyfriends cheated on her in high school and college, we discussed the connection between her parents, divorce and her desire for control and life.
And especially in her relationships, she explains how on the outside looking in, it looked like everything was fine with her, cuz she was excelling in sports and in school, but inside she was really hurting. We also touch on one very common factor at the root of so many divorces and affairs, powerful episode, powerful story from my guests today with a lot of practical takeaways.
So keep listening.
Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you heal and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce, separation or broken marriage. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Elli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 49 in today. I'm joined by Katie. Katie is a fertility nurse in Denver, Colorado.
She was born and raised in Nebraska where she attended the university of Nebraska Lincoln and received her undergraduate degree in nutrition science. She then attended an accelerated nursing program through U N M C. She's passionate about sharing her story in order to help others see their potential to be healed, transformed, and live a life fully alive.
Kitty's hobbies include praying, hiking, camping, volleyball, and really anything sports or outdoors. Related. And I have to say, I don't know Katie super well, but I was really impressed with her and everyone I've talked to who knows her, has just said great things about her. So I'm really excited for you to hear this conversation.
Katie is a Catholic Christian, so you're gonna hear her talk about faith, talk about God. And if that's not you, if you don't believe in God, I'm really happy you're here. And my challenge for you is this, go into this with an open mind. That's it just go into with an open mind and I guarantee you that you're gonna gain something from this episode.
You're gonna walk away with some inspiration or maybe some practical advice that you can use to heal and to grow. So here's my conversation with Katie,
Katie. Hey, welcome. Hi, thank you. This is great. Excited to be here. Yes. Yeah, yeah. We haven't done an in-person interview in a long time, so it's great to have you in the little studio just to set the scene for everyone. We're sitting in our little restored studio and uh, good vibes. Yeah. I love it. I love it here.
And, uh, we have, yeah, Katie's sharing some coffee and we're just chilling and it's great to have here. I, I think we met years ago at a party, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of just recently reconnected at St. Vincent de Paul, but yeah, it's been a little while. Yeah. Yeah. It's great to have you here. Let's go back in time.
Let's go back to when your parents separated and divorced, take us there. How old were you? What happened? How did you react to it? I was actually 22 and my parents finally divorced. Um, but I will take you back to when I was 12 years old. Um, just because from the time I was 12 until the time I was 22 was just kind of the thick of the turmoil with my parents.
Um, yeah. So when I was 12 years old, . Yeah, it was just kind of like a normal day in the summer, um, in my house. And I don't even know why I was on my parents' computer and my mom had had her email pulled up and I think I was probably honestly just bored. I like don't think I'm like, I was super like. Yeah, you were, I was not looking for anything.
Yeah. I think I was just bored. And so I started just kind of going through my mom's emails and I found an email from her to, um, another man where yeah, just reading it as a 12 year old. Yeah. Just like stomach dropping, like overwhelming nausea, just kind of knowing what I was reading, but then, um, at the same time, just like kind of being very confused.
I still kind of remember, you know, the words that she was saying, like, this is not my dad. She should not be saying these things. Who is this man named Chris? Um, just feeling very confused. And then also I just kind of even remember like the environment of my house feeling different. This place that was safe.
You know, my mom who was safe, everything that I knew in that world, in the world that I knew it in that moment, um, just totally changing. So I was 12 at the time, my sister was 14 and my brother would've been 17. I went and I grabbed my sister and, um, brought her over to the computer and showed her the email.
We went and got my brother, Matt. He came over to the computer, we read the email and I can't remember if it was in that moment or if it was a little bit later, but we ended up asking my mom to come over to the computer as well. Wow. That's great. Which is, I know it actually like now that I think about it, now, it, yeah, it really is.
Yeah. But I don't, I feel like most kids wouldn't have done that. Good for you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Um, so I remember my mom coming over to the computer, all of us just being there together while she read the email. And I still remember, even in that moment, just like really studying her, like every expression, just kind of reading her body language, just really kind of in this like fight or flight, like who is this person who, you know, because up until that point, she a very good mother, very loving, very attentive, very selfless.
So just like, I think my little self was trying to figure out life. So my mom read it and she told us that. It was a joke and that essentially that, yeah, he was an old man that she worked with and she had gone on a work trip to California and that the email was just a joke. And so I remember this like wave of relief, just like rushing over my whole body.
And I was like, okay, like life is back to normal. This place is safe. I can trust my mom. She's telling the truth. Yeah. Just feeling very good in that moment with my family. And I still remember going to bed that night and lying in bed and thinking to myself, what if she's lying? I think it's just, you know, my pure younger self, just being able to sense, like that was not normal, you know, even if it, even if she's joking, which I don't think that she was.
Yeah. So that, that was just the first time where my mom lied to us. Yeah. I just kind of the next 10 years, my mom. Kind of primarily, essentially was having an affair with another man who she's married to now and who who's different than the person in the email. But I essentially just like took on a new role.
I was like no longer a daughter. I was now a detective and seriously just, yeah, every couple of months would find a text message. Would hear a phone call, just something that showed that she was being unfaithful. And every time we asked my mom about it, she would lie. And so obviously, I mean, we can get there in a little bit, but just massive trust wounds because not only is my mother not being faithful, not being faithful to her family, to her husband, but also like just being lied to and lied to and lied to for so many years.
Um, makes it very hard to trust really anyone, but, um, anyone . Yeah, because it's like this person who is supposed to know you and love you unconditionally can. Not only hurt you once, but hurt you so many times over and over again. And we trust our parents the most more anyone. Right. Right. So if they betray that trust, we tend to think like, you're saying, well, who can I trust?
Right. Yeah. It's, it's so damaging. Well, yes. And my dad is just the hugest gift. Um, he is just a very good, holy humble man. Um, very faithful. So we, we ended up sharing about the affairs with my dad very early on. And so my dad was also kind of in the same boat as us. Um, also just kind of playing the role of detective and also, you know, trying to give my mom every opportunity to change and to choose our family.
So it was just a very unhealthy environment growing up a lot, a lot of resentment and just. No, no trust there between my mom and my dad, my mom, and all of her kids. And yeah, so essentially, um, I'll just kind of fast forward to the end. There was a lot of, a lot of things, you know, kind of in the, in the middle.
But then when I was a senior in high school, my parents were separated and my dad and I were living at our cabin at the lake and my mom was living at our house in town and we always left our front door unlocked. And I remember coming home and the front door being locked and just being a little bit confused and then going to the back door and coming into our house to find like my mom and like another man's like clothes on the, on the ground.
And, um, essentially my mom was there with the man who she's now married to. And so, yeah, that's how really it ended and how ultimately my dad was kind of like, you know, I value the sacrament of marriage and it's just kind of being made a mockery right now. And so that's eventually what led to their divorce, even though really my dad just did not want their marriage to end because of really like the, the sacrament of it.
And he's just such a good and faithful man. So, yeah. And he probably knew what an effect it would have on you guys too, even though of course, that environment you were living had to change. There's no questioning that right, man. Um, but it sounds like he did the right thing. He tried to rescue the marriage and then, um, there wasn't, you know, an effort on both ends, which is so sad.
Wow. That is traumatic. Which often isn't talked about, we don't talk about divorce and separation. Just things that happened in broken families as trauma. Wow. That is unbelievable. And I think, yeah, what, what you said just there being such a disconnect. you know, between the things you saw every day or, or at least the, what you perceived from your mom and then the reality like underneath, and I'm sure I know you love your mom.
Mm-hmm , I'm sure there's like a lot of yeah. Difficult feelings there. Yeah. Just, I'm sure she's dealt with so much shame just needing to live those two lives. Like something's really wrong there if someone does that. And so what we can get into that a little bit more, but I'm curious if you're open to sharing.
How long do you think that stuff went on for? I think, I mean, I think it was just for those 10 years, which is a long time that is time. Do you think it was prior to when you find that found that email or was that a more recent when occurrence that just started around that time? Yeah, I do feel like the timing.
I, I'm not exactly sure, but I do think that it was all relatively new. We did start to kind of see some changes in my mom. I don't exactly know what spurred them, but I do think that. it had not been going on for long before I found that email. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I've heard stories where things have happened for like 10 years, like an affair or something like that.
And, uh, it took that long to come out. Wow. This is crazy. So yeah, man, so much there. Uh, we're gonna talk more about that, cuz I think that wound of infidelity we can call it is very unique and it's not talked about much. And I think because you know, we love our parents and that's one of the things I'm sure you've thought a lot about it's like I don't, you know, wanna hurt my parents.
And one of the things I realized recently I was reading David Goggin's book can't hurt me. And if, have you heard of him? Cause this Navy seal for anyone who doesn't know him, he's this Navy seal who just came from an extremely broken family. He's an African American. And just like basically there, he had real racism in his life and things like that.
basically, he started going down this path of just repeating that cycle. And, uh, in the end he just realized like, if I don't do something and take ownership of this mess that I've been handed by, my parents, I'm just gonna end up just like them. Amazing story. So he, basically, one of the things he says in the book is that, um, his dad was super abusive.
He had like multiple affairs and he said that a lot of times he would hide his own pain and not bring things up that were uncomfortable for his parents, um, because he was trying to protect them. So not only was it kind of this, I'm just gonna hide it, um, to keep the peace, but they're like actively protecting his parents in a way, or at least, you know, one of them, his mom in this case it's because he just didn't wanna hurt her.
She had been through so much already. And I think that that happens so often. So it's an important topic. We'll get into it more. Yeah. Was there anything else you wanted to add about kind of how. You reacted to it in the years that followed. I think that the way that I responded was th this is such a strong word, and I don't feel it now, but I think, yeah, I, my younger self just really resented.
and I was gonna use the word hate, but like, I, honestly, those were words that like, I really truly felt when I was that, that age and going through this, but just really resented and like really, truly hated my mom. Can I stop you right there? Mm-hmm so for, anyone's not here with us in the room. I can see you're uncomfortable when you say those words.
Yeah. Which I just wanna point that out and I'm sure you know this, but there's something that's so prevalent in our culture and probably anywhere in the world is we tend to like demonize negative emotions, like hate or anger or sadness or things like that. So , but it's important and this is good for any parents listening.
It's really important to allow yourself, your children and anyone else. Who's listening to allow yourself to feel those negative emotions and they can't be uncomfortable. I'm not like putting it inside. that's OK. Yeah. But no, it's, it's a real problem. And. Especially for people like us who come from broken homes, we deal with so many heavy and negative quote unquote negative emotions.
And if we tend to look at them as like bad, then we are gonna feel a lot of shame. Like something's very flawed and wrong with us at a deep level, and it's gonna inhibit our ability to heal. So I just wanted to point that out. No, that's so good for me here. You, I not teaching you, but for everyone else, I think it's really important to, to understand.
And that's, uh, one of the things I know personally, I want to teach my kids. It's like, yeah, it's okay for you to feel negative emotions like anger and sadness and all those things. Like, there's nothing wrong with you. In fact, there's something very right with you. And I would say it to you too, like the fact that you hated your mom for what she had done, which brought about so many other problems in your life, so much pain to your dad and your siblings and you like, yeah, it makes sense.
Mm-hmm yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's funny because when I. Was thinking about saying that, you know, it's just kind of something where I know other people need to hear it. And it is something that I struggle to say because I, you know, my desire is not to hate anyone and it's not even, yeah, I do not hate my mom.
It is what she chose to do. And those are the things that I hate and you're right. That it is appropriate. And if I did not, there would be something kind of disordered in me. And so, yeah, it's an uncomfortable feeling to feel, but so necessary when there is real injustice happening. So, absolutely. Thanks for saying that.
Yeah, no, of course. It's I totally get what you're saying. And it's important to, I think, bring attention to that. And one of the things that a lot of people in like Christian circles, uh, will, will hear is, you know, hate the sin. Like love the sin, love the sin, hate the sin. And that's basically what you're describing.
It's like, you can still love someone ball, not approving of their behavior, of the things that they're doing. That's always the goal. In the years that followed too. What were the effects that you saw from the, their broken marriage, the separation, all of that? How did it impact your life? Um, so essentially, yeah, I did lose kind of all respect for my mom and just really did rebel in high school.
And in college, I definitely maintained really very good grades and excelled in sports. And so kind of in the eyes of the world was, was still just very successful and doing just fine while kind of getting into the party scene in high school. And then also into college, I was in a sorority and yeah, just in a couple of very unhealthy relationships in high school and in college.
And actually I think the devil knows where we're weak and he knows where to attack. And my boyfriend in high school was a little bit older than me and in college, he was unfaithful to me. My boyfriend in college was also unfaithful to me. And so, you know, just this, like. these two men also who knew about my parents and their marriage and their divorce and my mom's infidelity still choosing that.
Wow. Yeah. Is just really kind of dries home. This like lie that these people that really are supposed to love you and be selfless and sacrifice are going to always choose themselves. And so that's just something that I am like, just kind of now going through a lot of healing and yeah. A lot of redemption there, but yeah, just a lot of, a lot of wounds on top of wounds in that area.
So essentially just, I think coped with it in. Just all of the worldly ways in the party scene. Yeah. Like really focusing on body image, controlling my eating, and then finally kind of when my second boyfriend was unfaithful, really hit what I would call a rock bottom, I think. Yeah. Just really coping in all the wrong ways.
And then I actually was asked to spend a summer in Jacksonville with my cousin nannying for her new baby. And that is really where I experienced my reversion to the faith. I think I just knew that I was not in a good place and that I needed a change. So I brought a whole bunch of good books. Um, men, women in the mystery of love, rediscovering Catholicism, how to find your soulmate without losing your soul.
And I listened to all of these podcasts by father Mike Schmitz. And I went to confession for the first time in several years and like filled an envelope front and back with sins that I needed to confess. And I really think it was the grace from that one confession that. Really just brought me to where I'm at now, which is in a very, very, very different place than I was at the time.
But it was, I mean, there was so much suffering that summer. I was really just drawn out of this life, um, out of all of the heartache and all of the hurt and Jesus just spoke to my heart and healed it. And I remember calling my sister who was a little ahead in the faith. She'd already kind of gone through a version herself and just telling her, you know, like I wanna be a Saint and I wanna be a Saint now.
And it was just a very powerful, yeah, Jesus speaking to my heart and sharing me, sharing with me, who I was in him and yeah. But definitely went through some real coping mechanisms before reaching that point. So totally. And how old were you, uh, that. I was a junior in college. Okay. So that's good. I dunno.
so you're probably like what, 20, 21? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Yep. Okay. Good to know. Wow. That's profound. That's amazing. And go into the unhealthy coping. Uh, yeah. What were you looking for and all those things. What do you think was the motivation behind you doing a, of things that you did love, love, and unconditional love and attention?
I think, yeah, it's amazing how all of the ways that we are coping, we are really just searching. And I mean, even in the control of eating and body image issues, I know that that's pretty prevalent after you've gone through just a very unstable family environment. It's kind of like, what can I control? And so even in that, not only am I trying to control the thing that I can control, but I'm also trying to gain the attention of men who, you know, I'm looking to fill this void of.
This lack of love that I was not receiving from my mom. Yeah. Really just looking for love in all the wrong places and yeah. Not succeeding and finding it there. Yeah, totally. No, it makes sense. And it's kind of baffling when we look at it logically, it's like, okay, we're doing these things that are actually gonna hurt us in, in a way to escape from the pain and the void of love and affirmation that we want.
But, but we did them anyway. Mm-hmm and I was right there. Yeah. Had a struggle with pornography and all sorts of things through high school, I dealt with loneliness, uh, depression, to some extent, anxiety for sure. And the interesting thing as well. I did well in school. I did well in sports too. And so from the outside, People were, you know, would've looked at me and be like, oh, he's fine.
He's good. And that's, that's really common for people who come from broken families. Like statistically, most people don't experience what we're experiencing most struggle in school. They even drop outta high school or college. That's what the studies have shown. But for those of us who, who do push on, um, and somehow are able to make it through.
In fact, for me, it became a coping mechanism in itself. Like it, I received so much affirmation in sports because I was a good athlete and, you know, in school I wanted to do well because I wanted to please my teachers, I wanted to, you know, have some sort of affirmation that I was lacking from in my case, my dad, especially.
And, uh, yeah, it's, it's real. And it's a huge mistake. Everyone listening, especially any teachers out there or anyone who loves or leads people come from broken homes. Don't be fooled by that. Um, it can be a facade. It can be absolutely a mask that we wear in order to kind of bury the real pain and herd and, you know, it's possible, we're not ready to deal with it at that point in life.
That's totally possible, but it eventually will surface and we're gonna have to deal with it. So that really stood out to me as well. And the controlled piece too, which I can talk about in a second, but I wanna give you a chance to say anything you wanna say. Yeah, yeah, no, that's very true. Yeah. And just kind of you mentioning like your struggle with pornography, that is something also like, I, I think if I really shared all the details of a lot of the aspects of my parents' marriage, it would just, yeah, that there's just a lot there.
Um, but I have been very affected by other people in my life, struggling with pornography. And so in a way that the Lord has really used it. As kind of a driving force in my heart. So my mom also, I struggled with pornography and there were times that yeah, I would happen upon it or have to, you know, see it or listen to it.
And also, um, or a couple of my ex-boyfriends that I knew were using pornography. And it is just something that I know is such a real struggle for so many people. And yeah, I just want to speak very tender lane to those spots because we all, you know, we are all broken and we all deal with things in yeah.
Different ways. And it's just something that I, yeah. I just think needs to really, I think we talked about more just because it is such a huge way that. Families are broken apart and it not only affects men, women, but the children. And it's just a huge way that the devil can break apart this family unit.
And yeah, I mean, I just have this passion place on my heart where, you know, it's, whether it's talking about it or praying rosaries for an end of sexual impurity or volunteering at a home for women who have been sex trafficked, it is such a real evil in our world. And yeah, just, I hope to be a tool to really kind of battle that in some way.
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Yeah. It's, it's such a plague, but it's like a silent plague in a lot of ways, like a disease that's, you know, slowly and quietly infecting your entire body. And, uh, thankfully for me, you know, I was young when I saw a pornography, I was 11 and struggle with it for, you know, a few years, but had the chance to.
I hear Jason Everett speak and he really helped me. And one of the things I wanna make sure whenever we talk about this is like, there's so much hope and there's freedom and it's possible to get away from Matt. And so for anyone out there, uh, listening, we'll throw some resources in the show notes like Jason Everett and Matt FRA recently came out with a book called forged.
It's a 33 day challenge to break free from pornography. And I think that one specifically for guys, but there's another one for women called you might be able to help you with this uncompromising purity, which is specifically talking about the issues of pornography and masturbation for, for women, which is something that is not talked about nearly enough as well.
So there's all sorts of things there. But I remember I was talking with, uh, someone through ReSTOR and, uh, she was sharing with me how, when she was young, her dad looked at porn like crazy mm-hmm and he actually tried to get her into it, like tried to get her to watch it as well. And like using manipulative and tricky tactics to do.
super dysfunctional. Obviously everything in a broken family is dysfunctional, but, um, this is very real and it's not something like you said, that's talked about enough, so I'm glad you brought that up. And I think it is a less is at the core of so many broken marriages. Uh, you know, maybe it's the driving factor.
Maybe it's just another factor in so many situations. That's, that's absolutely true. And it's devastating. I wanna go to. Control something that we've learned is that people who've been through trauma. They like you and me. They tend to never wanna repeat that again, right? Oh, no. Not tend to. They never . And so one of the things that we intuitively think that we can do in order to prevent any sort of harm like that from happening again, is to control every variable that we possibly can in relationships, in our careers, in life and school and everything.
And that is exhausting. It is so hard. yeah, you're right. It's something that you, probably those of us who, who struggle with it, we probably don't realize actually how much energy we're putting into it, how difficult it is. And so it's a difficult spot to get to, cuz I remember at one point, uh, I was like at the end of high school, beginning of college, Just literally, probably could have been diagnosed with O C D in some ways, and really struggling with that control piece, just wanting to control even things that didn't makes sense.
Really. And I see my siblings actually have struggled with O C D and, uh, that's the trend actually. We're noticing with people come from broken families. We don't know if there's something that we're gonna be looking into the research on it, but man control is a very, very real thing that a lot of us struggle with.
Mm-hmm yeah. I think the biggest way that I struggle with control is when I'm in a relationship. And I think that that probably comes from the biggest fear or my root fear, really being infidelity or, yeah, just dysfunction in the relationship. I don't think I struggle with control too much, I guess. I guess I do.
Yeah. Even outside of relationships, but, but it gets out the most in your relationship. Totally makes sense. Yeah. And even just, you know, when things don't go as planned. Just really struggling to surrender in those moments. So, and I think I, more than I even know, control most parts of my day and yeah, really I think have this false sense of security in that, because I really do think that it really is.
I mean, we are so much less in control than we know or think, but yeah, I think the illusion of us being in control makes us feel a little bit more secure. Totally. The illusion of control. I love it, that, that nails it and, uh, totally relates to that. And I think that there's a lot of people who do so you're not alone.
um, even in my marriage, um, my wife and I are pretty open about things. That's been something that's like difficult, even it, it gets silly at times. She's like, no, I don't want you to wash my clothes. It's like, I got this or something, you know, more serious where it's like, oh, I don't wanna show weakness or be vulnerable because if I do then maybe.
Uh, what happened with my parents' marriage will kind of play out again and that's like terrifying. That's one of my worst fears and that's going to what you said, the fear of infidelity that is so real for so many of us. And I totally read it with that. That that's probably my worst fear. Uh, at least when it comes to, to my marriage is that like, my wife would cheat on me or even I would do something stupid.
So I totally relate on that front. And I can't imagine how damaging it was for you to go through those relationships where those guys cheated on you. Because man, that is just devastating. It just, yeah, you're a nurse, you know, it's like taking a scalpel and just like ripping open like a, a wound that was maybe somewhat healed or at least, yeah.
Maybe not even healed. It was just opening it deeper and bigger. And that is horrible. I can't imagine you mentioned you touched on this already, but yeah. What were you, you. I, I guess, what did you believe about yourself? Did, did you, you thought maybe, I guess, oh gosh, like I'm just not worth loving or what was going on inside of you?
Oh yeah. A bit, but elaborate if you would. Yeah. Two lies that come to mind immediately. Um, which I still definitely struggle with. I am in therapy now, which is very helpful to kind of unpack some of the lies, but definitely I am not enough. I am not worthy. And specifically I'm not beaut beautiful enough, which is just very interesting because I think a lot of things, anything that I really struggle with, they're all very interconnected and all very tied, you know, back to the source of the wound, which is really ultimately my parents' divorce and my mom's infidelity, but, um, yeah, ultimately just feeling like.
Yeah, I am not enough. I think in regards to my mom, it's kind of this, like, I am not, I am not enough, or I am not worthy of you sacrificing your own happiness for me. Um, and then in regards to my relationship with men, I am not beautiful enough and that's why you have to go elsewhere. And so, yeah, just a lot of lies that, you know, when the devil is working can appear very true.
Yeah. Wow. And I know before the show, we were talking about another episode, uh, on our podcast and you related a lot to the idea that you're a gift, a gift that's not worth giving or not worth keeping which man, it just like strikes to the core for, for so many I know for me too. Yeah. And I think when I heard that, the way that, that lie kind of manifested in my mind was.
that I can kind of on the surface be very charming or attractive. And then once someone really knows the real me or knows, knows what I've been through or knows what's under the surface, kind of like the opposite of like a fine wine, getting better with time. It's kind of like, oh, I'm, I think I'm quite the opposite of that.
And really the more someone could know me and really know what I struggle with or what I wrestle with. Yeah. Actually people will leave or people will not find it worthy and yeah. Kinda like dip out. Yeah. And then what we do with that often is that we tend to start controlling again, that controlling what people see.
Right, because we think, oh gosh, I, if I, like you said, if I show them the real me, then they're not gonna wanna stay around. So I'm gonna create a version of me that I think that they want, that will make them stay and stay faithful. Right. And that never works says it. It doesn't know. It does not. No let's yeah.
I understand why we tried that, but it's, doesn't, doesn't where we think it will work, but it, it just doesn't and ends up leading to maybe a false sense of intimacy. And it's basically building, you know, house on, on lies, which is just so fragile and eventually will fall. Right? Yeah. So true. Let's go to healthy coping and healing.
So what, yeah. What does that look like? You mentioned therapy and obviously your faith is a big part of that, but elaborate if you would, on a few things that have really helped you cope. And heal the most. Yeah, I think really first and foremost, my faith is the most important thing in my life. Um, in my relationship with Jesus, uh, really specifically through the sacraments, I go to daily mass and pray a holy hour every day.
And that is, you know, I think some people see it as like, oh, you were like, you're so holy. And it's actually like, you don't know how much I need it. like, it is a necessity. And it's not something that yeah. Is like out of pride. It's out of like a real profound humility of, I need the grace of Jesus in the Eucharist and my daily prayer to, yeah, really.
I just need it. So I would, and Jesus is so faithful. He shows up every day and gives me the grace that I need and has been healing so much in my heart, in my mind, my body. Yeah, just immense healing over. However, however long. Um, and then, yeah, I would say my sister and really, I think in general, I am starting to now just recognize the importance of community.
I think that so many of the lies that we hear we assume are either just how we are, or they are our fault, or we are alone in that. And we feel very isolated. And so I just went on a life giving wounds retreat last weekend. And so essentially it, it was a healing retreat for adult children of divorced parents and to have the community of people who have gone through what you've been through and who feel the same way.
Coupled with listening, listening to the restored podcast has just been really, really huge for me. And then having my sister who's gone through what I've gone through. Just not feeling alone in it is just more important than I thought it was. And then, yeah, finally I think therapy has been. Very beneficial.
I think therapy is one of those things where you kind of question like, does it really help? And then over time you look back and you are just living differently and you have more of an ability to really question why you are doing what you're doing or you're believing what you're believing and just, yeah.
Really sharing about your life with someone who is a professional. And then who also, um, is just kind of like a third party, not a family, a family member or friend. Who's really gonna kind of tell you what you wanna hear. It's more of just a very necessary, yeah. Person who's been trained to really identify why our behaviors are the way that they are.
So those three things, I think kind of. Yeah. Maybe in that order have been really instrumental in my healing to get me to where I am now. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people are opposed to counseling. Like, oh, I don't think it'll work. Or, you know, just, it's a difficult thing to go through. So they may kind of shy away from that.
I heard a Navy seal once they, you know, big, tough, like alpha male Navy seal Jocko, willing. I don't know if you've heard of him, but yeah, he, he was like kind of saw counseling as like this weak thing to do, especially a seal it's like super tough too. But he said it helped him to understand that a psychologist, a counselor is just a mechanic for your brain.
so true. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I like one of the things, you know, even if there's not this like huge immense turnaround, cuz a lot of the things in your life you'd already been going down that path. And now this is an additional tool for you to continue to heal and feel whole again, which is awesome. One of the things, uh, it's not a perfect analogy, but if you think of like your car, uh, the more you understand about your car and how it works and what can go wrong and all those things and try to get it to work properly, by bringing it to someone who knows what they're doing, uh, the better your car will function and the better it will work for you.
And so the same, I think is true for us in life. It's like the more. Even just on the understanding level, counseling is so helpful for that. It's like, okay, you make way more sense to yourself. Mm-hmm and that alone, hopefully, you know, there's more than just that. Hopefully there are some real changes in the way that you feel.
If you're experiencing symptoms like anxiety, depression, hopefully you can lessen those, learn to manage them or even get rid of them altogether. Which is awesome. If you can, even just the understanding piece I think is so helpful and I've been through five, six years of counseling myself, so I can say the same.
And, um, at first it wasn't something that I, I thought would be effective. I, you know, would basically just not open up to the counselor was when I was younger. Cuz my parents suffered when I was 11 and so went to counseling then, but then eventually through the years, especially in my teens, I realized, man, this is, this could be really helpful.
So yeah. I love it. But yeah, I'm mechanic for your brain. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going back to what you said about God's grace. So anyone listening, who isn't familiar with that, I just wanna explain a little bit, you've heard me talk about this on this show before grace is just God's life in our souls and one there's.
It has a few different functions. One of them is that it gives us the strength to do good and avoid evil. So it gives the ability to, to recognize good and to see good and to choose it and, and to do that thing. So this, and like the secular world, we call that good habits really, but it also heals nature.
Like it, it has the ability to, to heal us in, in ways that we can't even maybe sense or experience, but it, it, it can do that, like kind of like a medicine that you would take for a disease maybe that you can't see, or maybe there's not a lot of symptoms for, but you know, is there, that's kind of how grace works in our souls.
And so it's so important in the healing process, especially on a spiritual level, when we're talking about healing, our relationship with God to have God's life in our souls so that we can do good, avoid evil, but also heal ourselves on, on a, in a very deep, deep way. And there's so much more that can be said there, but those are just some starting points that are helpful to, to underst.
we're always a work in progress. Right. You're still in path of healing. I am too. You've made a lot of progress though. Mm-hmm so I'm just curious what's life, like now, compared to what it was like before contrast that if you would. Yeah. So essentially, um, now, so kind of going through that reversion, I was in college and yeah, just really kind of like living the party scene.
And so after spending that summer away, I came back and was really, I guess, kind of living like a double life where during the week I was still, I w I started going to daily mass and praying, and then on the weekends would still kind of go out with all my friends. And just over time, I started to sense, you know, just like the peace and the freedom and the joy during the week versus, you know, just a profound lack of peace and yeah, just real.
Despair and lack of joy on the weekends, just, you know, sensing myself, trying to kind of cope or fill this void or numb the ways that I was feeling from the effects of my parents' divorce. So now yeah, I am working for Bella. It's a very, pro-life OB GYN, women's health family practice clinic, and it's a lot more mission based where we will serve anyone that walks in our door and yeah, just a very life giving ministry.
And so I'm a nurse doing that. And then, yeah, just really spending a lot of time in prayer and at mass. And then also just giving him my extra time. I I'd kind of mentioned earlier, but, uh, this, the passion in my heart for the battle against sexual impurity and starting to volunteer at a home for women, who've been rescued out to sex trafficking, which, you know, those are all kind of.
Related in one, one way or another. And so, yeah, just really the, the Lord has done immense work in my heart to kind of bring me to a place where I think the ways that I cope is really by going to him now and of giving myself of myself in other ways. Beautiful. Love it. Yeah. And that's a big turnaround from yeah.
Someone maybe who was wearing a mask, uh, putting up a facade of things, everything being okay. And just really like hurting deep inside and even your vulnerability of coming on the show. And I know you've talked to people about your story. That is, that's a big change in itself, cuz I know for me, uh, for a while I didn't really wanna talk about it.
So it, it's amazing to see the progress you've made and you know, hearing your story and then also how you're still working on it. Cause we, I say this all the time on the show, but healing's an infinite. It's like fitness. Like you never wake up one day. At least I don't I wish, yeah. I'm like, okay, I've reached the pinnacle of fitness.
I never need to work out again or eat healthy. No, of course you need to continue to maintain it. So healing, I think in a lot of ways is like that though. We can't really turn a corner and find some real closure. So, so that's, uh, amazing. And thanks for sharing. I, I think it's really encouraging for people who are in a tough spot right now to know, okay.
There's hope mm-hmm, like there's light at the end of the tunnel. You don't need to stay where you are. You don't need to feel the way you do forever. And it doesn't certainly doesn't define you because as one of the counselors we interviewed on the show said that, you know how you're feeling. It, it just, how, how you are.
It's not who you are. It doesn't say it doesn't dictate your identity. So your brokenness is just something you have to deal with. Um, but it's not who you are. And so, thanks for sharing that. I wanna go back to something you said before. I think it's worth touching on cuz I think there's a lot of people in this situation.
Uh, people like us tend to be loaners. Mm-hmm we tend to just kind of go it alone. We don't want to, uh, like I said, open up or rely to heavily on other people because we've learned, especially with one or both parents that people really aren't reliable. And there's some truth to that. I would, it would be silly for me to say there's no truth to that.
There's some truth to that, but there certainly are people who can be trusted. There are good people, you can develop good friendships. You can even have a great marriage. It does take work. It takes time, but it's hard for us to believe that I, I still struggle with that at times, even in my own marriage, but I'm always proved wrong when I try to trust, especially, you know, in my marriage and things like that.
And it is possible that you'll be burned again, totally open to that. But what I'm getting at here is that your realization that community is important. That's profound. Because I know you and I are both high functioning people. I can tell mm-hmm and yeah. You probably try to do a million things in a day.
Is that fair? Yes. Yeah. You like checklists? Yes. Yeah. I could afford to rest a little more so. Yeah. Yeah, same. So I like too much and I don't have enough leisure and all those things. So anyway, we kind of look at our brokenness as a problem to be solved, which in a way it is, but we tend to think, okay, the way that I solve my brokenness is by doing this checklist of items.
And there's some truth to that. Cuz you go to counseling. Typically what you'll get is homework things you should do good. That that's part of it. Um, but what we're learning, especially just through the stories we're hearing and, and the experts we brought on the show is that so much of healing is relat.
Mm, mm-hmm because for the basic reason that so many of the wounds that we've experienced come from our relationships. And so you've already said that a few times, how just the devil's attacking you kind of where you're weak. And so the way the antidote in so many, um, situations is experiencing authentic love in genuine friendships and beautiful romantic relationships and things like that.
But it it's difficult. Isn't it, to, to turn that corner and be like, I need people . Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I remember one of my friends telling me that once is so much of healing is necessary. It needs to happen through relationships with people. And I still remember like holding onto this, you know, kind of one thing where I'm like, I don't want the healing to have to come through me sharing that with someone.
And then in my most recent like romantic relationship, I. I remember sharing that with him and the immense healing that came from it. And I remember thinking back to my, it was a priest friend of mine who had said that, and I was like, wow, you know, he's right. And kind of, depending on how people respond, it can be immensely healing or immensely hurtful.
And so, you know, there needs yeah. Right. But yeah, just the healing that came from that was huge. And so, yeah, I totally agree. So much healing has to come through relationships with others and it's scary, but it is so worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And it can be done gradually over time. And that's one of the things that we recommend.
It's like, don't just open your heart up to anyone. Fully, you know, all at once, do it over time. Find some people, ideally a group of people that you can trust that you can have these vulnerable conversations with, who can really know the real you, not the one that you just present to the world on Instagram.
And so it's so important to have that group of people, but, but it can happen over time. And I think knowing that takes a lot of the scariness out of it, it's like, okay, I don't need to go, but at some point you might have to have a more vulnerable conversation to open up about things. And typically people don't do that first.
You're gonna have to do it first. And then when you do it first, they're probably gonna open up about the, the, their own things in life that have, uh, really hurt them. And. Lots of good stuff there. Speaking of relationships, let's talk about how your parents divorced the breakdown of their marriage, the infidelity, all that has affected your relationships.
We already talked about quite a bit, but yeah. Elaborate if you would on that. Yeah. Well, um, one thing that was very good for me to hear when I went on this retreat, the last weekend was that it is very common for adult children, a divorced parents to have to go through some failed relationships before they find the right one or the one essentially marriage.
And that was very providential timing for me. I just recently went through a broken engagement. And so, um, essentially there, I think were probably a lot of factors, but yeah, ultimately it kind of boiled down to both of us really needing more healing. And I can definitely acknowledge that these last five months for me have been.
yeah, just an immense season of suffering in a way that I know that I am going through some very deep and intense healing. So essentially when kind of right before we got engaged, my boyfriend at the time opened up and shared some things that he was just being more vulnerable about with me and. It really uncovered a lot of things that I honestly didn't even know were there.
So for me, this is very providential timing for me to be able to speak into this now, after all of this has happened, just because yeah, there was a lot of, of wounds that were brought to the surface that I truly did not know were there or needed to be healed. I think kind of in my mind, I had found this very good and holy Catholic man.
And once again, I was safe and I think that I had kind of thought these, these sins that had once really affected me would never affect me again. And then when it was even just like touched on, not nearly in as dramatic of a way as my parents, it just yeah. Brought a lot to the surface. And so it really manifested in like a lack of trust and yeah, just certain ways where I think having to deal with a lot of the trauma that I went through.
Was just really difficult to go through in the midst of COVID and an engagement and just, yeah. Some healing on my end, some healing on his end. So yeah, it was just huge for me to go on that retreat and hear that some people have to go through some broken relationships and then also followed by, I remember Dan who led the retreat multiple times telling me that I am capable and I am worthy of a good and holy marriage.
And I was like, whoa, like, it's amazing how, you know, I can know that in my mind, but to hear it and to actually believe it is so different. And so yeah, it has, it is still affecting my relationships. I think it's kind of one of those things where going through therapy and the community and all those things are going to be just so necessary when I enter.
Into another relationship, just because, yeah, I think in a certain sense, it will be a little bit more, I think if you've gone through something like a, with your parents having been divorced, it's going to be a little bit more challenging, but in a way where it is more rewarding. I dunno how to explain it.
I think if you are really wounded in an area, there is a desire and a tendency for a deeper love. I think sometimes about my friends whose parents weren't divorced and I, in a way I am a little bit envious of, you know, the lack of trauma or the lack of wounds that they have. But in a certain sense, I also know how much I value truth, how much I value fidelity, how much I value, very real and pure love.
And I don't think it would be the same if I hadn't gone through what I'd been through. So even though it is difficult, there's so much hope. And I think a greater capacity for a deeper love, if you really kind of embrace. What you've been through and embrace who you are and embrace the healing and yeah.
Just allow the therapy to work, the grace to work the, all the things. Yeah. There's just so much hope on the other side. Beautiful. Wow. That's so hard. It's a lot to go through. We know a bunch of couples sexually recently. Who've broken off engagements and I think it's S heroic. Mm-hmm, , it's difficult. , even embarrassing.
I'm sure. In, in some ways, which is really hard to, to deal with. Yeah. I think I am maybe the only, I guess at times, but I, I was gonna say, I think I'm kind of an exception. I think a lot of people ask me about it being embarrassing. And I don't know. I, I think it's just grace because I'm like, I, I don't find it embarrassing.
I think I find. Painful. And there's a lot of suffering, but for some reason, I, I don't think I've really felt embarrassed in any of it. And I, I, I think it's just pure grace. It's gotta be or hope or something. I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think, um, if you made, you know, people who do that, who are making that right decision, there's nothing to be embarrassed about.
Mm-hmm I think it's just social pressure, whatever. Right. I think, oh gosh, I set the date and maybe I sent invitations out or save the dates or did all this stuff to prepare for it. And I'm, you know, walking ending this, it can be really hard. Some people don't do that. And I've known people in that situation where they, because they're so invested, they don't, and that is so damaging and it can lead to a scary place.
Really happy for you. And I know that's might sound say, happy you went through that really difficult thing, but no, no, it's it's yeah. That's such a good thing that you guys kind of recognize that and did what was necessary, even though it was really, really hard I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that was something I am grateful to have been able to bring up just because I have also noticed how prevalent it is.
And it is something where, you know, I think that people do need to know that they aren't alone in it and know that yeah. It can be such a blessing and can be such a good thing. And yeah. So I'm just happy to be able to share and help people to know that. Yeah, it is, it takes a lot of courage and a lot of bravery and I think the payoff will be huge.
Yeah. Yeah. And just relying on good people. I'm sure you've had a lot, you had a lot of people in your corner who are kind of speaking into and helping you, cuz it can be so hard to make those decisions. When you're in the, kind of the thick of that. So mm-hmm, so good. And I, I love what Dan said on the retreat that you are capable of it.
And yeah, I would echo that to you and to everyone too. I think everyone needs to hear that. And, uh, what you said too is, uh, we're probably gonna struggle more than most people. Which stinks yeah, I know. Right. But, um, but it's true. And I think it's important. I'm glad you brought that up because if we expect that, then it won't be a surprise and we can even prepare and plan for it.
Like, okay, what am I gonna do when. You know, these, my relationships get hard and it's really difficult for me to be vulnerable, to trust when it's, you know, something comes up a conversation where it triggers me about something in my past, like, what am I gonna do? Who am I gonna have in my corner? Whether that's a therapist or a spiritual director or a group of friends or a community, something like that.
I, I think it's really important to acknowledge that. So thanks for, for saying that. And I want to go back to one other thing you said too, like the unaware, this is so common. Mm-hmm for so many of us, it's like, we don't totally understand or appreciate, I don't know if appreciates the right word, but we don't totally grasp how damaging the things that we've been through.
Especially when our family breaks apart. We don't totally understand how that will affect us in years to follow. And you might know this already, but the research clearly shows that the biggest area of our lives that are impacted when we come from our divorce family is our own relationships hands on.
And so. Yeah, it's normal. If you're listening, if you're listening right now and you are in a relationship and you're struggling, or you've been in relationships like that, just know you're normal. It's not fun to be there, but it's not unusual. And the research backs it up as well. And all these stories that we're hearing, just align perfectly with it to, uh, even though it's a sad thing, it's a true thing.
Yep. I agree. Katie, what would you say to someone listening right now who feels really broken? Who feels stuck in life? Who just, maybe they're even at the point of despair, just like, I, I just feel so broken. I don't know what to do about it. What, what words of encouragement especially would you give to them?
I think that this is something that I have needed to hear in the past and would just want people to know just how deeply loved they are and kind of what I was sharing earlier. But yeah, really like, because of the wounds that you experienced, you are really able to invite Christ into those places and they're going to be far more beautiful and glorious than if you hadn't experienced them in the first place.
Um, one of my favorite ways that the Lord works is by bringing far more beautiful things out of something that is seemingly broken or seemingly ugly. Um, that's just one of the ways that he glorifies himself the most. Yeah. Just essentially there's so much hope. And you know, those lies that when you can identify the lies that you hear in your head that are not true, um, that you are loved and that you are enough and that you are worthy.
I think that, yeah. I was so vulnerable in my story, just because I do feel like it, you know, really understanding the, the depth of the, the evil that was there and the ugliness and the, all the things really is a true Testament to the glory of God and the ways that he can really redeem things. And so, yeah, essentially, there's like a very good quote that you are not the sum of your faults and failures.
Um, you're the sum of the father's love for you, which really is just so powerful because I think very often we can identify who we are based on what has happened to us or what we've experienced. And that's just simply not true. And there's just so much hope and just know that I am praying for you and that I am here for you.
If anyone would like to have a conversation or. Yeah, like reach out on either email, Instagram, Facebook, however, um, I'm just so happy to share more. Um, I know that I'm sorry. I, it was a little bit Jesus heavy and that is solely because he is. The most important thing in my life. And if you want to know more about him, I am happy to have a conversation.
I can always like try my best to filter, you know, and just meet you where you're at, but I just deeply care about you, whoever you are, wherever you are, I am here for you and yeah. Would love to support you in any way that you need. Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time for your vulnerability. Uh, I know it's been so helpful for a lot of people.
Um, me included, so thank you for, for being here and yeah. Really grateful that you took the time to do it. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for allowing me to share. It's been very, yeah. Healing and helpful for me too.
If you wanna get in touch with Katie, you can actually email her. Her email is Katie. So K a T I E. And then her last name, um, Mira check, which is spelled M R O C. Z K hotmail.com. We'll throw this in the show notes for you so you can just copy it and email her. And she wanted you to know that yes, Hotmail does still exist.
You could also DM her on Instagram and her handle is at K and then her last name, Mira check, which is M R O C. Z E K the number 12, and then the number 26, 12 26. Again, we'll throw that in the show notes to make it easy for you guys. My biggest takeaway from this episode is just how devastating it is when your mom or your dad is unfaithful.
It's something that we need to talk about more on this show, to be honest with you, because so many of us have been impacted by this just like Katie and the effects of it are huge, huge. It especially makes trusting and loving so much more difficult because in the back of our minds, we're thinking, oh gosh, is this person gonna be unfaithful to me?
And so real healing is needed. There is Katie articulated so well, especially if you wanna love well and build healthy relationships and even a great marriage. And so a question for you to think about if your mom or dad had an affair, how has that affected you, especially in your own relationships, give this some thought, because if you start to recognize how it has affected you, then you could begin to work against it.
You could begin to heal and to grow so that this thing doesn't have power over you. If you wanna share your story with us, we would love to hear it. Some of the benefits of sharing your story first, reflecting on your story is actually healing on a neuro biological level. It actually makes your brain healthier, further writing your story as you would do.
If you shared it with us, is, is also healing. Studies have shown that people who write about emotionally significant events in their lives are less depressed, less anxious, healthier, and happier, pretty amazing. And sharing your story, not just thinking about it, not just writing it down, but also sharing it with someone.
Verbally or through writing is also healing on a neurobiological level. It makes you healthier. And then lastly, sharing your story also gives hope and some guidance to people who maybe are struggling. They're going through the same things or similar things that you went through, and you can just offer them some hope and maybe some advice on how to get through it.
The way that you did to submit your story. It just takes three easy steps. Go to restored ministry.com/story. Again, restored ministry.com, ministry singular slash story. You'll just fill out a form that guides you in writing a concise version of your story. And then we'll take that and turn it into an anonymous blog article.
And so we'd love to hear your story. Share your story today at restored ministry dot. Slash story. The resources mentioned during the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 49. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful at all, please subscribe and share this podcast with someone you know, who really needs to hear this stuff.
Always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.
