#145: Mother Wounds, “Parts Work” Therapy, & Healing from a Broken Family | Dr. Gerry Crete
Growing up, Dr. Gerry experienced deep turmoil at home. His father was abusive, and his parents’ marriage was full of conflict. When they eventually divorced, he felt like he lost both parents. Feeling alone, he became highly independent.
Thankfully, he found healing, and today he helps others heal as a therapist. In this episode, we discuss:
How Internal Family Systems (IFS) and “parts work” can help you heal emotional wounds and improve your relationships.
The way our parts interact with our significant other—and how to avoid choosing a spouse from a wounded part of you.
What a mother wound is and how it affects you
How movies like Inside Out, Encanto, and even Avengers’ movies illustrate “parts work” and the healing journey.
If you have perhaps sustained a mother wound or want to heal using Internal Family Systems, this episode is for you.
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Dr. Gerry (00:00.142)
This is not all about narcissism or just self-focused kind of stuff. No, this is about loving ourselves properly. And when we do love ourselves properly, as we do develop this harmony, we are able to love others so much better. When we're young, we're not well equipped to cope. There's a part of me that wants to get everything done. And there's a part of me going, why can't you just relax? Why can't you chill out? Part of the reason why the part is stuck there is because of usually it's some kind of traumatic.
What are mother wounds?
Dr. Gerry (00:29.678)
painful thing. They're also holding strong emotions attached to that, that the system has said, whoa, we can't handle that because they haven't been processed or whatever.
I wanted to transition a little bit to movies because I think it's another great way of understanding parts work.
Welcome to the Resort Podcast. I'm Joey Pantarelli. If you come from a divorced or a broken family, this show is for you. We help you heal your brokenness, navigate the challenges and build healthy relationships so you can break that cycle and build a better life. guest today is Dr. Jerry Creed. He founded Transformation Counseling and Coaching. He authored Litanies of the Heart, relieving post-traumatic stress and calming anxiety through healing our parts. He's a therapist with experience in trauma and anxiety disorders. Dr. Creed.
This trained also in internal family systems and ego state therapy. He's also an EMDR certified therapist and consultant. Dr. Creed worked with individuals, couples and families and he teaches at St. Vincent's Seminary in La Trobe, Pennsylvania. Growing up, Dr. Jerry experienced deep turmoil at home. His father was abusive and his parents' marriage were just full of conflict. When they eventually did divorce, even though was his dad who left the home, he really felt like he lost both parents and as you can expect, that left him feeling really alone. So he became very independent.
Now, thankfully he found a lot of healing and today he helps others heal as a therapist. In this episode, we discuss how his family's dysfunction and his parents' divorce affected him and how he healed, how internal family systems and parts work can help you heal and improve your relationships, how our parts interact with our significant other, boyfriend, girlfriend, spouse, and how to avoid choosing a spouse from a wounded partner. Really important part of the conversation. We talk about what a mother wound is and how it affects you and how movies like Inside Out.
Dr. Gerry (02:03.054)
you
Joey (02:10.006)
and even the Avengers movies illustrate parts work and the healing journey. And so if you perhaps have sustained a mother wound or you want to find some healing using internal family systems, this episode is for you. In this episode, we do talk about God and faith. If you don't believe in God, you're totally welcome here. Anyone listening for a while knows that this is not a strictly religious podcast. So wherever you're at, I'm really glad you're here. If you don't believe in God, my challenge for you is this, just listen with an open mind. Even if you were to take out the God parts, you're still going to benefit a lot from this episode. With that, here's our conversation.
Joey (02:42.84)
Dr. Jerry, so good to have you on the show. We haven't wanted to do this for a while. Welcome. I want to start with maybe an obvious question, kind of a deep question, is why do care so much about helping people and helping them heal?
Thank you for having me.
Dr. Gerry (02:55.726)
That is a big question. I mean, I think some of it goes back to my own childhood and my own upbringing and even, you know, having, you know, had different kinds of trauma, different forms of abuse as a child, different parents, you know, splitting up. very difficult relationships sometimes there and, you know, and yet at the same time, discovering some resilience, obviously, but also discovering God, discovering my faith.
exploring that, being able to heal to some extent through communities, through working with people and the experience of growth, if you will, and healing and my own life and my own journey, still not done, still quite imperfect. But nevertheless, the journey has led me just in wanting to help people, you know, to whatever extent that I've experienced the love and healing of God and also often through people. I want to impart that too.
So a big part of my desire to help others is partly because of the grace that I've received. So that's informed it. And I think some of that is just who I am and who God made me. Like there is an aspect of just my own personality, my different, my inner workings that, you know, I'm fascinated by, right? And I'm, I have a definitely, there's a parts of me that are very intellectual and want to research and write and I love that aspect of me. And then there's another parts of me that are more relating, right?
care about connection, care about relating with others and like to see people connect and grow and really have healthy relationships. So some of that is just values that are kind of embedded in, in who I am as I've discovered myself. Love that.
Yeah, I remember hearing, I think, John Eldred say something like, you he's a counselor by training, but also by intuition. And you very much so hit me as like someone in the same vein, which is beautiful. You mentioned that your parents split, to whatever degree you're comfortable sharing like what happened there. And yeah, how did that affect you, especially because everyone listening right now, you know, comes from a dysfunctional family, divorced family.
Dr. Gerry (04:58.358)
separated family. So my parents had a very unhealthy relationship. My dad himself had a very traumatic childhood of his own. And know, he got married, he was a very kind of like, I would say at this point, like a broken person, but he was abusive. So I have, you know, pretty serious father wound issue there. And so in fact, my parents would fight. And, you know, I can even recall many times their fighting was very frightening.
you know, for me as a child. And so in that process too, I probably like idealized my mother a little in that, but because she was the parent who was the responsible one, she was a parent who was nurturing, she was a parent who was, you know, reliable. So at some point I can remember wishing my parents were divorced. Like I, it was so unhappy, it was so much turmoil and chaos in the home that I kind of...
please end it and the kind of thing. the case of my situation, my mother, she worked as a secretary. She worked as an administrative jobs, wasn't highly paid or anything, but she was always had a job and she was security. Whereas my dad was always losing his jobs or different, know, was not reliable in that way. And I just thought, well, what, you know, what do we need him for? in a way, like we can't, get away from this pain and all this stress and everything else.
Eventually there was kind of a big event that happened that was where he left. I don't know how much you want me get into my story. This isn't my therapy session or anything, but he left and so that was in early high school, I think. But then there was the issue of my mother going through depression, her going through lot of stress and disconnection. So in a way, when my parents divorced, there was a sense in which I lost both parents.
in that and so this was me in high school so yeah so I understand the experience of divorce but I know it's different for different people for some people it's losing a parent that they were attached to in my case there was a sense of both like losing I was wanting a relationship with my mom to continue and it felt very disrupted so it felt very alone
Dr. Gerry (07:12.362)
actually, and probably the refuge for me were my friends. I had a girlfriend at the time, but I also think that through that, I just became very independent. And I figured I have to, you know, sell things on my own and do things on my own. If anything's going to happen, if anything's going to change in a way that's good and in a way that's bad, right? I learned that sort of a good thing to be independent in a way, but it was sad because it took me a while to learn that I could trust people, you know.
Thanks for sharing all that. And I definitely have felt similar with the whole independence, like quality, where in some environments, like the business world, that independence is like very valuable, very good. And then, but in relationships, like you said, it can be really, make things really difficult. I've definitely experienced that in my dating relationships, friendships, and especially within my marriage. And so yeah, I definitely relate with you on that. yeah, I can relate with you too on the side of losing both parents. It was a similar situation.
With my family, details were different, but dad left and mom was left to kind of take care of everything. And it was just too much, like you said, for her to just do it all. And so naturally us kids got neglected. And so, especially because I was really attached to my dad, that was like a major loss for me. And I loved my mom too, but she was just so occupied and busy that it was definitely a tricky situation. And that's where, like you said, you kind of, as a kid, you get this feeling that like, well, it's just like me against the world. Like I better figure it out because no one's really got my back. And so I'm going to.
have to just kind of push forward. And we've seen that a lot with the young people that we serve as well. And so, yeah, it can relate on so much of that.
Yeah, yeah. I think that, not that I didn't make some mistakes or do some things that I regret, but I did end up kind of finding in that process, you know, if you will, a relationship with Christ. And I did find a relationship also in community, in faith communities, even in high school. So that was kind of life changing, I think, for me, because I feel like if I didn't have that, could have, it would have gone in a very different direction my whole life.
Dr. Gerry (09:14.254)
And so I'm really grateful. So even though I guess I felt I feel kind of like abandoned, I suppose, by parents, you know, God provided. I had to be willing, I had to be open, but He was providing for me things that I needed. The other element of it is that being open to whatever suffering, whatever pain that one experiences in being open to how that in God, in Christ, can be transformed for good. So
To get back ultimately to the question you asked me initially about like, do I even, why do I want to help people? Like there's a sense in which, well, when I help, if I'm working with people, like I'm a counselor, right? So if I'm helping people resolve wounds and hurts and whether they're mother wounds or father wounds or whatever traumas from their life, there's a part of me that feels like I'm being a vehicle for that. And so God is working through me to make a positive difference. And so much of my ability to empathize and understand
and make sense of, connect with, is partly because of what I experienced. So I feel like I can use those things. Sometimes we don't see that when we're younger, usually. It takes a while for us to recognize how our suffering can be redemptive, it can be transformative.
I can't agree more. Yeah, I think it's important to say that because sometimes when we're stuck in the midst of it, it can feel so overwhelming. We can feel swallowed by it. We can feel like, you know, it's senseless and there's no purpose to it. But it's almost like we're stuck in the middle of a story. And I know we're going to get into stories and movies a little bit later, but we're literally like in the beginning or the middle of the story. We haven't really seen how it ends yet. And you know, if you leave a movie earlier, stop reading a book.
in middle, you're not gonna see the resolution. And I do believe maybe life is messy and there's not ever maybe perfect resolutions to everything, but there are resolutions. I firmly believe that. And I've seen that in my own life too. And one of the resolutions for me has been that, there's been, especially men in my life who have mentored me and kind of stepped into that father role, kind of making up in many ways for what I lacked at home. so, and I have a good relationship with my dad now. I love him. But if I'm honest, there were definitely certain ways in which it...
Joey (11:23.534)
there was like a deprivation there. so, but yeah, it's cool to see. And it's cool that I love seeing, you know, how you're using something that was painful to you. You've grown from it and now you're using it to help other people to empathize and all that. So, good. One thing I wanted to mention too, for everyone listening, sometimes the young people we work with feel some level of guilt for wanting their parents to get divorced, like you had mentioned. And I think one of the most helpful things on this topic has been just understanding that there's kind of, there's two categories of divorce. I know you know this, but for everyone listening,
Dr. Paul Amato is at Penn State, he's a sociologist there and he's done a ton of research on this topic and basically he says, typically marriages that end in divorce fit into one of two categories, high conflict or low conflict. High conflict is what you might imagine, like what you were describing Dr. Jerry, of like, there's a lot of just visible dysfunction, there's bad fighting, there might be abuse, violence, things like that. And in those situations, the children do benefit from a split.
You know, maybe it's temporary to a lot of some healing to happen. Maybe it's so serious that it needs to be more permanent, but that accounts for about 30 % of divorces according to the motto. And on the flip side, you have low conflict, which is situations where from the kid's perspective, at least, and I should have said that with high conflict, high conflict, the kids like kind of observe it all, they're privy to it. In low conflict, the kids are kind of hidden far from it, or at least it's more covert. It's hidden from their eyes. They kind of assume and think everything's fine, even if they have like an idea that maybe things aren't perfect, things are kind of dysfunctional.
it's not to that same high degree. And so when a divorce happens in those families, it really comes out of the blue. It really hits them in the back of the head and they're like, wow, I never saw this coming. And so I found that to be really helpful to understand that there's those two major kind of categories and in the high conflict situation, it makes sense that someone would want to get out of that.
And in the low conflict, it makes sense that someone would just say, my goodness, this was just like taken out from underneath me. Like, who will I be able to trust? Like if this thing, my family, which was supposed to be the most permanent, the most foundational thing in the world is taken from me, like what's not going to fall apart in my life.
Dr. Gerry (13:21.102)
No, I like what you say there. And I think that's important distinction. I've grounded a little bit around security too. So if you have a relationship, a parental relationship, a family that feels secure to you, and then suddenly you find out, my parents are having a divorce and I had no idea. That is a sudden trauma because it's like, I thought I was in a safe place and all of a sudden I'm not. Whereas the high conflict example you gave, maybe since as long as they can remember, there has always been insecurity.
So you go from insecurity, which is your normal, and wanting the divorce feels like moving to security, in some level. I mean, maybe not perfect security, but at least better than what was there. So, I don't know, for me, that's how I kind of frame it, a little bit is around that, safety and security.
Yeah, no, that's a great way to frame it because there are so many variables and you know, I think that model that a motto gives is like helpful, but there's, know, it's like every model there's imperfections in it. So I really like what you said about that. And maybe we'll have to do a whole another show on that topic of like attachment theory and everything. Um, because it's such an important topic, but yeah. Um, thank you for going into all that for sharing. I want to pivot a little bit to talk about the type of therapy that you do, uh, with parts work. And so starting out to someone listening who has never heard of.
Parts work and parts, like what do we mean when we're talking about that?
The whole idea of parts work and the most well-known at the moment type of parts work is called internal family systems, IFS. There's other models that do exist and have existed, but this sort of, this type of therapy is recognizing that within our mind, if you will, within our heart, if you will, inside us, there's a multiplicity or there are different parts. You could say sub-personality maybe.
Dr. Gerry (15:09.614)
but there's different parts that exist in a sense, uh, or at least phenomenologically exist. And they represent a different parts of us. And so if we treat the human being, the human person, like they're just one thing, your personality is just one thing. I think we are missing a whole lot. And once I learned about multiplicity, about the fact that, we have different parts within and you start working with your different parts.
So the therapy is about get connecting inside, looking inside, discovering all these different parts. And this is not talking about multiple personality disorder, anything like that. That's an extreme disorder of one's parts, but we naturally have different aspects of self. And so one way I would look at it would be like, there are a part of me as a, a manager more type of part, who's going to be super good with getting work done.
You know, I'm task oriented, that shows up for me when it may be in a job, shows up for me around the house, maybe if I am organized or whatever. So like, have a part that's like task oriented, right? And when you meet that part of me, if he's, if he's a little bit focused, he's going to be like not paying very much attention to you. And he's going to be like wanting to get his job done possibly as an example. And then, but I have another part of me that, Hey, is kind of chill and just wants to like, Hey, I want to just relax.
You know, uh, smoke my pipe and watch, you know, a movie and just chill out. Well, that's a different part of me that if you encountered him, this part of aspect of me, then you would have a very different impression of who I am. Right. So you could say there's different roles, right? So my parts have different roles. Um, so that, I don't know that gives you some sense of what parts are, but when you're working with people, we recognize that these parts, a lot of these parts I just described like.
manager parts or this other more relaxed and chilled out part, they're all kind of, they are often protecting. They have roles, but they're often protecting. And one of their jobs, especially the manager ones, is to protect us from being overwhelmed by pain or shame or fear or any emotion, or maybe a very disturbing memory or whatever. They're protecting us from being overwhelmed as a system. And what we learned is that when you look past those
Dr. Gerry (17:36.652)
protective manager awesome parts, but when you look past them, we have other parts that we call exiles and those those parts that they're often show up. We could be connect with them like often it's they show up as children or adolescents not always, but most of the time and it's because those parts are kind of stuck often in time if you will and so or developmentally they're still in the place they were and part of the reason why the part is stuck there is because of usually it's kind of some kind of
traumatic, painful thing. So those exiled parts are holding those difficult memories, if you will, and they're off. But what can happen, though, is they're also holding strong emotions attached to that. But the system has said, whoa, we can't handle that because they haven't been processed or whatever it is. And so we've got to exile it keep it away. But it's really just being tucked in our unconscious mind. And when we're not obviously we're not conscious, all this is going on.
But something happens, right? Maybe somebody says something unkind to me or somebody says something happens, something bad takes place or whatever that triggers those exiled parts. And then they suddenly show up in some way by flooding my system. those emotions are connected to sometimes those past things. And so my system is flooded. And so then I have other protective parts that leap into action to like shove that back.
Right. And that can be anything from alcohol consumption or drug consumption. It can be like anger, rage or something. It can be like, can just be numbing out in some way, binge watching TV, binge video games, whatever. Like these are all like reactive things to, whoa, keep that exile at bay. Meanwhile, we have other parts of our system with the role of being like a manager to make sure that never even gets to that point. So.
Anyway, the point I'm making is that we've got this whole little system going on inside and the therapy, the parts work therapy is about connecting with and helping all these different parts within us. all parts of you, they're me, right? And helping them be healthy, bringing those dials home, loving them and giving them what they needed, helping those protective parts do their job in a healthier way. And then what happens in the end is, or in the end, it's an ongoing thing for most people.
Dr. Gerry (19:57.602)
But we developed this inner harmony. Our inner system is healthier. Our inner family, if you will, is a happier functional family. And until I learned about parts work, I feel like I never quite got there often with clients because there's always something not addressed. And now I'm able to address so much more in this kind of work.
I love that. So much there. So much there. I love what you said about the kind of exiled parts of you being stuck in time. I remember hearing a little bit about kind of how the brain works and trauma and how when you go through a traumatic event, the logical side of your brain, at least the two part brain theory says that that logical side of your brain that's, know, calculation and language constricts and the emotional part like takes over. But that part of the brain, at least with this one theory that I'd heard of, it doesn't have a sense of time. So literally like baked into our
neurobiology, least the science that I had learned, there's like literally that part of you that's stuck as a 10 year old kid, as a 12 year old kid, and it might show up in an argument with your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your spouse. I'm curious kind of in that realm, especially with relationships, because that's a major pain point for our audience. How do these parts, especially the exiled parts, maybe typically show up in relationships and cause maybe problems? I don't know if that's the right term to use, but cause some conflict or cause some
lack of harmony within the relationship. If you like me come from a broken family, you've probably experienced a lot of difficult emotions and it's easy to deal with them in unhealthy ways. But one healthy habit that's helped me working out consistently and eating how my body was made to be fed. It keeps my body healthy and the endorphins help me feel happier and better navigate tough emotions. But I know it's not easy to start exercising or to be more consistent with it. You might be thinking, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no time.
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Joey (22:11.618)
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Yeah, yeah, it's a whole topic and it's a great one. I'll mention a few things just come to mind that might be issues that come up. Here's the thing, part of this whole notion and this understanding is that we have a core self, I would say in most self, you say Paul's language, but we have an interior self. Even in the secular world of internal family systems, they identify a self as somehow different from parts, but it's a core of the
It's sort of the core spiritual center of the personality. I have come to see it as the best representation of the image of God within the soul. So we have this inmost self that is the best, most representation of who we are at a deep level as beloved child of God. All right, so I just want to preface that we have this self, okay? And that what happens is our parts are busy, are more like...
busy, if you will, like they're not there. have tasks and their roles and like I was describing. so, and they're managing life, if you will. And so what can happen is that a part that is burdened with something, right? Either maybe it's a belief, like I'm not good enough. So let's say if the manager part, that task manager that I was talking about earlier, let's say not only is he the task manager, like he's busy doing stuff because we need parts that do stuff, but he's burdened with this belief of I'm not good enough. Well, then
What's gonna happen to his role? Like he's gonna be more like having to prove himself, always having to do more, always having to do more, having to prove myself, blah, prove, prove, right? And the way we would see that is that that part is blended in or that part is like eclipsing, if you will, our core in most self, right? And so when we're in a relationship with somebody, what are we encountering in their personality? Well, we might be encountering a part that has a burden and it's...
Dr. Gerry (24:10.35)
Hovering up in a way sort of riding the bus if you will and we're not accessing our core spiritual center of who we are Maybe we are a little you know, it's not always a perfect thing Like it's it's a little bit like a cloudy day some Sun gets through sometimes but it's dominantly being being covered up So when we have a manager part that is that is coping or whatever or maybe it's a we call the other type of protectors some of them firefighters so we have manager pipes that are
proactively doing things and we have firefighters that are like busy putting out fires, right? They're Reacting and so one way to react is to isolate So we may have a part that just isolates away, right? So I know I do like I have had parts that are task managers and I've had parts that will void and Isolate and just go off into my own little whole hobbit hole, right? So if you talk about relationships, so whether it's in my case my wife or anybody are they encountering me the
busy task manager who doesn't believe he's good enough? Are they encountering primarily the me that is the avoiding all bad feelings and wants to just hide away? What version, if you will, of me do they meet? Now, another thing that could happen would be if my exiled part, my little abused, you know, all alone child who's been hurt, right, and wounded at exile. mean, sometimes that part is the part in charge at times.
shows up. And so that's, that would be a wounded victim, if you will. So what happens when somebody else has, let's say a, let's say I'm a 20 something year old single guy, and with my sort of background, and I meet some girl who's also around that age, she's got a part that is also kind of a manager task manager type, like go get her, but who believes she's not good enough.
that burden. So she believes she has to help everybody else in order to feel good about herself. That's her burden. That's the part that's showing up for her. She meets encounters and say we have some night we meet, you know, we're on a date and then we stay all night till two in the morning talking because I have let my exile be the one that's in front. So she's meeting my woundedness and she wants to take care of
Dr. Gerry (26:31.384)
She wants to be that mother, whatever it is for that wounded part of me. And of course my wounded part is like eating it up. Yeah, I love it too. So I'm being, in my mind, being very vulnerable. She's being, we bond on that. And it's not that that's all bad. I'm not saying that's all wrong or bad, but that's the basis for the bonding, but an actual healthier relationship, right? And this is ideal, super ideal. None of us are completely there, but an ideal thing is that
It's not my parts that my friend or my spouse or my girlfriend encounters. It's my in most self and that, and that she's also, so there's a process to like let her parts step back and be able to just be real, be honest and come to that front of that place of vulnerability that's genuine. And, and we come from that place. Sometimes we can talk about our parts. I can tell her about my wounded exile guy. can tell her about my other parts. Right.
and she can hear about that and empathize. And then she's doing the same thing to me. So I'm encountering her core in myself. So that's a spiritual connection. Now we're like, we're connected to each other on this deep spiritual level of really seeing the other person for who they are, for the beloved child that God made in them. That's profound and unbelievably, unfortunately rare actually, but it can happen.
Now I'm presenting them as extremes and I think what happens is we get glimpses of it sometimes, right? So people know what I'm talking about but maybe they haven't experienced the fullness of it. That's kind of the goal. Anyway, so how it shows up in relationship is complicated.
Yeah, no, to say the least. mean, this is so insightful and I, you know, I know that some people might be thinking, man, this is kind of a lot to track with her. It might be overwhelming, but I, think like when you, when you put it in such plain terms, it's really helpful. And we definitely like thinking of my experience. There's certainly people in my life that like bring out a certain part of me, right? They maybe bring out the best in me or the worst in me, depending on who, you know, who it might be. And so I think, you know, we kind of see this in action.
Joey (28:41.09)
in everyday life, even if we can't like quite put the words to it. And so yeah, you you use a lot of the language like part of me, you know, I've heard you say before, part of me wants to do this and part of me wants to do that. And so I think there's a simple understanding there and everything you mentioned with kind of the task managers versus the firefighters makes so much sense too. I'm curious, you mentioned there's a process to kind of access that in most self. I know we can't go deep into it, but would you tease that out a little bit for us of like, okay, yeah, like if you're, know,
in a relationship or not in a relationship and you want to be, or you're looking towards marriage, it's like, man, I really want to make sure my true self or my inmost self, whatever you want to call it, is relating to this person's inmost self. But I'm kind of worried that they're not, that it's not, or the part of me is not. And so yeah, if you could give us a little teaser there, I know, you know, the book, I'm sure goes deeper into this too.
Yeah, yeah, the book does actually like walk through that process to some extent, but I can give you a little glimpse of it. So first of all, we have to have the awareness because I think most of the time, like we're not aware, like we just operate. And so we're not thinking about ourselves in this way. so parts are blending in with the self or covering it up or whatever. And this just happens and we're not.
conscious of it. So the first step is to just even recognize, yeah, I have an interior world. I have an interior space that has some complexity. we may have to pause, right, and notice these different parts that are in me. And what's cool and interesting is there's different ways to access them, but one cool way is through the body itself.
which is very hylomorphic if you're Thomistic, but it's to like recognize that in our physical bodies, our parts do kind of sometimes manifest in some way, especially the parts that are disturbed, the parts that are having some struggle. So one way is like when we're stressed about something, we will feel it in our physical body. So you would notice like, for me, it's my shoulders usually. So like I will do this with my shoulders, I'll tense up. And so to recognize, okay.
Dr. Gerry (30:44.16)
If I pause for a moment and say, my shoulders are tense, just have that awareness that I'm doing that. And to be able to pause for a moment and say, okay, what part of me is connected to that tension? Right? Because oftentimes I know for me that that tension in my shoulders, at least, is probably that taskmaster on some level, worried that I won't be able to get everything done that I'm supposed to. That might be one example. And so I'm literally tensing, right?
to be activated to do something, right? And yet at the same time, if I can't do anything, it's paralyzed and it's sort of stuck. So I'm noticing my body connecting with that taskmaster and then, or man, I should give him a better name, but that doer, the doer part. immediately right there, I'm noticing a part. And so as soon as I connect with a part, then I have created a little distance internally between me and that part. There's a space there.
So I can notice it. It might, could even notice me if you will, or notice other parts, but there's a little internal distance. It's not like, he's not on top of me, he's just over here. And then as you kind of get to know that part and let's, you know, kind of pay attention to it. I will often ask this question, like, how do I feel toward this part? All right, now something's going to show up. If something shows up that says, yeah, he's a pain in the butt or he never, he's no fun. Okay.
There's another part. Okay. So I've got a part that has an issue with that part of me. So there's an inner conflict that I have within me between there's a part of me that wants to get everything done. And there's a part of me going, why can't you just relax? Why can't you chill out? We're going crazy over here. Okay. So within me, I have these two different, different parts that aren't in agreement. All right. If I can notice that part, okay, fine. Notice you go back to the other part. How do I feel toward that part? See if something else shows up. And so what happens is you're sort of teasing out these different
usually these parts have some agenda. At some point in this process, what you might feel toward a part is compassion or understanding, some level of patience, sense of calm, as even love, if you will, some sense of curiosity about it, not a judgment, not an agenda, not trying to make something stop or go or do anything. It's just these natural qualities, I think, related to faith, and love.
Dr. Gerry (33:08.546)
But related to, think the biggest one is compassion is the biggest like usual. There we are. Now we've connected with our Inmo self, right? Cause the Inmo self is just, it doesn't really have a big agenda other than maybe harmony, healing maybe, but it's not like trying to fix things. It is simply really an expression of within us of God is love is in a sense, right? Cause that's God is love and we're in his image. So our Inmo self.
expresses just this natural love. And it was discovered by Dick Schwartz even, who's totally secular. And he was working with women who had eating disorders. Dick Schwartz, sorry, he's the founder of Internal Family Systems. founded, he created this sort of that way of approaching it in the 1980s. And he was working with women with eating disorders and he figured out this process of getting them to connect with their parts. And once
They teased out all these different parts and to a person that he worked with, every woman that he worked with, suddenly this self, he just called it the self, emerged that was just naturally compassionate, naturally courageous in some ways and creative, but just had this natural beauty, if you will. And it didn't matter how terrible their trauma history was or how messed up their lives were. It was innate. So I really think he naturally stumbled upon
the image of God in each human being, in a natural level. It's there. So anyhow, so this is what this process is. What I've realized in time was, yes, it's psychological and there's a psychological approach, art's work, but it's incredibly spiritual. And I'm like, and I was thinking to myself, well, if I believe that the Holy Spirit works through every human and dwells every, you know, baptized, whatever Christian, then
Imagine what it would be like for the Inmost Self to fully express, be open to God's love and open to the Holy Spirit, open to the virtues of faith, hope and love to then manifest throughout the whole system of person. I was thinking, well, as Christians doing this, should be, the transformation should be even more, right? Because it's like, we're not, every need we have ultimately can be filled.
Dr. Gerry (35:29.676)
by our inmost self in communion with the Trinity. Communion with And so to me this was all mind blowing. And it was coming together and beautiful. so this is so much of the work that I do is this approach now.
So good. No, could see why it's so effective too. And yeah, wow. No, I'm blown away. Well, just maybe let me try to summarize the process that you mentioned just for everyone listening and to see if I understood it. So essentially the first step of kind of getting to that in most self is just being aware of maybe what parts may be coming out, if that's the right way of saying, or just like have their, they're active maybe. So there's something happening. That part is like stepping in and taking some sort of a roll on. So identifying it, acknowledging it, bringing awareness to it.
And then it sounds like engaging it in some sort of like simple dialogue, simple conversation of kind of understand, which is meant to aim towards understanding. And ultimately the goal would be like some sort of compassion. And that would allow us to kind of quell the, maybe the concerns or the fears or whatever's bothering that part so that we can act from our inmost self. Is that somewhat it or what did I miss?
No, that's great. I love that. would just say that compassion isn't so much the goal, it's the beginning. because then there's this process of unburdening the part, whatever burdens it's carrying, helping the part learn its true role in the system. And so then there's work to be done, but which is cool. And then there's interactions. It sounds funny, but between our different parts and having the whole system. So it's a little bit like an orchestra, right? The self is this conductor, right? This is
Dick Schwartz has used this analogy, but it's a good one. And so if the self is like the sort of like the conductor, then, you know, all the parts, you want to get them in tune and you want to get them all the instruments working, you know, playing together and they all have, but they all have an important, you know, the wind instruments and the brass instruments. Everybody has a role. it's, and so when it's all together, it's beautiful. And I have then run with that and began to see how our inner world from a Christian perspective.
Dr. Gerry (37:41.442)
is very much like an inner temple or inner cathedral, if you will, or whatnot, that in fact, like, you know, the, inmost self is like the priest or the, I suppose minister, but like, is the, is the celebrant and then all the, we have all different roles. There's readers and this and that, and people and people in the congregation, like our inner world ultimately is meant to be this worshiping community within us that all of our parts then become.
oriented toward God and praising God, then our system, where all of us, if you will, is giving, is loving back to God, if you will, worshiping back to God. So to me again, yeah, there's this strong spiritual sense. I really draw on to great extent what when Christ says that we were to love God with our heart and everything, but we're to love our neighbor as ourself. And so I think that's a fascinating thing. And when you think about it, because we, hate ourselves, then we're not loving
You know what mean? Not loving others very well. So what does it mean to connect with all our different parts and help them be unburdened and help them be harmonious and all this business? Well, we're actually, this is not all about narcissism or just self-focused kind of stuff. No, this is about loving ourselves properly. And when we do love ourselves properly and when we do, it's always a work in progress, but as we do develop this harmony, we are able to love others so much better.
We're able to turn to our girlfriend or boyfriend or spouse, whoever. We understand their parts better, so we give them a lot of grace. But they're seeing a different us, truer us, if will. And so that is powerful. They're able to love others better and ultimately, like I was saying before, love God fully.
Really powerful and experience like you said more peace more harmony, but you know more joy more happiness We would probably say too and that's really beautiful quickly before I move to the next question I know you recently went to Italy and I'm curious What what part of you or parts of you came out in Italy because I've noticed for me when I've gone over there my grandparents Came from Italy and moved to America and so just love Italy But it brings out a different part of me than in America. So I'm just curious if you notice that
Dr. Gerry (39:51.406)
So I'd never been to Italy before, believe it or not. And so it was my first time in Rome. So was in Rome, I was in Florence. Yeah, I mean, it was interesting. I don't know what to say. It's a little tricky. I think I had very different parts with reactions. Some of them surprised me. You know, I found the city, you know, pretty bustly and that, but I mean, lot of big American cities are too. It was very aggressive. you know, I have a, like just getting coffee or something. Like I, what was happening to me was realizing like, wow.
I am not like how just being in a different cultural environment affects you and how helpless you are when you don't really know all the rules and you don't speak the main language. So there was a part of me that was super like felt a little overwhelmed and helpless. Like I remember when trying to get coffee and people jumping in front of me and that ends in the morning. And I was just like, okay, I don't know where I'm supposed to go. And I don't know the process because they're doing it different than they would ever do it in a, you know, in a caribou cafe.
You know, so there is some of that and the other parts of me were like it was interesting going to all the different. I went through, think, five holy doors, which was super cool. But, you know, go in a place like St. Peter's. was so excited to go to St. Peter's and it was gorgeous. But, you know, I know I was going through with people going through it. I didn't go there for mass or anything, but I did feel a little bit like I was in a museum. And so and I love museums, so don't get me wrong. But I felt like something about that.
I don't know, just felt like it was too much. I have a Benedictine spirit, also a Franciscan spirit, that loves the simplicity. So I was all excited and then I felt a little overwhelmed also just by, I I loved it, so don't get me wrong, but I felt a little bit like, but where do I go to meet God? I would go, there was a few other places that actually surprised me. Like even St. Paul's Basilica, it was still grand and everything.
But for some reason, I just felt more at home there. It felt more simple. It felt more something. And so I had different parts to reacting a little bit to the spirituality. so don't know if that's what you.
Joey (41:56.398)
Yeah, no, no, it's helpful. No, and I I was just curious that aspect of like going into a different culture That's why I was asking this question and 10 of your parts kind of being at play because I think those situations when we're not in our normal environment To me at least kind of bring out parts of you that maybe aren't brought out very often
And I remember that, yeah, on my first trip, you know, over there and going to different cultures too. Yeah. You're especially ones where you don't speak the language. You're certainly at like a, in a vulnerable position. Like you said, I remember feeling exactly the same way. And, and then, yeah, and then part of you, maybe I remember I would get like even very like frustrated with myself. like, wait, like, you know, even like driving over there, there's been times when I've driven in Italy and at first it was like, actually a really stressful experience for me.
Because I'm like, I don't know how to pay the tolls. don't know like, you know how to do this and do that and like everything I do in America and am I doing it right? Am I gonna screw it up? So anyway, it's just an interesting analogy if you will of kind of how this all works. So thank you for answering that. Feel free to comment on any of that but I wanted to transition a little bit to movies because I think it's another great way of understanding parts work. And so I'm curious, yeah, if there's any movies top of mind for you that kind of exhibit that these principles exhibit this framework.
A couple that come to mind to me that I wasn't sure if they fit here would be like Inside Out, Inside Out 2, Encanto. I've heard that there's some of this going on there, but you tell me, like, what movies would you say, like, exhibit this well?
I would say, I I enjoyed all three of those movies. I thought in Inside Out did a lot to help people understand parts. It's not like a perfect representation by any means, but to see the inner working of the main character Riley and her inner working like with all the different, they were represented by emotions, but these emotions seem to have their own emotions too. So they were like little parts.
Dr. Gerry (43:49.088)
And it made a lot of sense that people watch that film and kids would, of course, watch that film and it resonates. Even though parts can sometimes seem strange sometimes when you're trying to explain it, the reality is that it really does resonate with most people and Inside Out kind of proved that. So I think it does a great job of showing how there's complexity within. It does a great job of showing some inner conflicts that goes on within and so on. I would say one thing I point out, what I was unhappy about Inside Out.
was that I felt like there was no in most self. There was no that core spiritual center that wasn't represented. Like to some extent, the Joy character did that, but not really fully. So I felt like there was a missing piece, but what do you want? It's a Disney movie. It's not going to be, I can't expect it to fit all of my designs, but nevertheless, I felt like that was a missing piece that actually got addressed in Inside Out 2. They actually did, you know, imperfectly, but interestingly, showed
there's that like constellation thing that changed color and it went out at one point or it got thrown away or got replaced by and I thought, wow, that really does kind of show the spiritual center in some interesting ways. If on some level the image of God within like that core center, it got overwhelmed, it got replaced at one point, but it, you know, when it would go filter down or whatever. So I thought Inside Out 2 did a great job of showing the more the spiritual dimension.
And then, of course, the way they showed anxiety, the anxiety character, and when he was out of control and or she, I don't know if it was a he or she. And it was like going, you know, it was the losing control and was trying to do everything. And you could see. And I thought, wow, that did a great job of showing fight or flight. Like what an amazing thing. So I feel like those two movies like really did a lot to like normalize parts. It also did a lot. It had a pretty good understanding of trauma. And of course, it.
it has a very strong understanding of how human emotions work.
Joey (45:47.0)
Brilliant, yeah, no, I love it, all those things. And yeah, one of the things that hit me in the second inside out was how, yeah, just, all of our parts, right? It's not like we can cut one part of us off and throw it away and say, I'm kind of ashamed of that part, I don't want anything to do with it. But there needs to be this, like you said before, this harmony, this integration of even maybe the parts that we aren't crazy about. And so I thought that was neat too, how the, not to spoil it for everyone, but how the end result was kind of this, you know, this.
harmony, I can't think of a better word, between the different parts of Riley. Inconto, I'm curious if you have thoughts on Inconto. It's such an interesting movie. I have a three-year-old, almost four-year-old, and so we watch a lot of these movies. But yeah, I'm curious if you have any thoughts on that one.
Yes, I do. I have seen it not recently recently. So I may not remember every name or every little aspect. I think that was brilliant. I actually saw it. My daughter, who's an adult like my kids are all adults. But it was earlier on, like a number of years ago, my my daughter wanted to watch it and we watched it. And I half paid attention. I'll be perfectly honest. And I initially like maybe it's culture. Like I didn't totally I'm not terribly familiar with that culture. I wasn't clear on.
At first, like, what is it trying to say? Maybe I was just tired. So I got some of it. But then a few years later, like I had somebody say, no, Jerry, you have to like pay attention. Need to like notice this movie better. So I said, okay, fine. And I was doing these film reviews. so, and everybody said I have to look at it. So I watched in Kanto again this time, like with my notepad. Well, and then of course the film was brilliant.
Hehehehe
Dr. Gerry (47:25.806)
Absolutely brilliant. What I would end up saying is a little bit there, which is interesting as I was reflecting on, how does it all work is that the main character. first I didn't get it right away, but I actually think she represents the Inmo self and that's why she doesn't have a gift. because the Inmo self isn't like the gifts or roles or functions that all these different relatives have and she doesn't have one.
Mirabelle.
Dr. Gerry (47:56.062)
She's the heart of that family. And at the end, when she comes in to open the door, she's the one that has to unlock the door, the house in a way. Like you could argue the house is, but the house is sort of, but it's more impersonal in a way than I think our inner self actually is. So anyway, I don't know if that's true or just, don't know if I could argue it in court a lot, but that's my impression. But the house is also interesting as the cell system.
in some way too, or housing the self system. So I love that aspect. Yeah. And how the different characters like, yeah, yeah. The character, I guess would be her uncle, I think anyway, the character that was kicked away that has a castle. Yeah. Bruno. So he, he was a perfect example of an exile and who goes, he's nobody wants to go near him. And well, she goes in and risks it all to her death, but to find him, this is what the inmost self does.
And this is to find that exile and bring that exile home. It's what Christ does as a good shepherd. He finds that sheep and he brings that sheep home. It was so, to me, that was so beautiful. That showed again, this, you know, I don't know, it fit very well with parts work.
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Yeah, no, it's beautiful. That's why I wanted to talk to you about some of these movies I am one question about in content that we can move on that the ant that has like the like words her emotions on her sleeve has like all the weather she controls like the weather or whatever What's your insight there? What's going on there? She basically like that the way they exhibit her in the movie is that she really has not much control over like how she
Joey (49:57.9)
reacts to her emotions. Like if she gets angry or upset, then there's like a tornado. If she is sad, then there's a rainstorm. She kind of wears her emotions on her sleeve. She has very little, what we might call emotional mastery. And so I'm curious, I've heard some people speculate kind of why that might be, but obviously it's all just speculation. So it's okay if it's a little bit too distant, but I'm curious.
I mean, it just sounds to me like this is a part that is overwhelmed by emotion. So when we were talking about that a little earlier, right? Like when a part is overwhelmed by emotion then and there in the driver's seat, then you've got a person who is always emotionally volatile and unpredictable, right? And so in a way that might be more what she was doing. And I don't remember what plays out for her toward the end if they develop that. I don't.
Yeah, no, no, think basically the way she manages her emotions is like, think her husband is like the one who kind of helps calm her. And yeah, I don't think there's, there's not a ton of resolution to that particular character in the movie. Of course, like the resolution for the family, of course, is that they kind of, instead of trying to be this like perfect family, they kind of acknowledge and accept like they're okay. We're, there's parts of us that are like broken and we're not like this perfect family that we want maybe people to perceive us.
I was wondering maybe that character, I don't know, in some way learns to use that power more helpfully than just be reactive. Because that actually sounds a little bit like a firefighter. But her role is she's not meant to be in the system, to always be that. But maybe that power is channeled in a more positive way, would be what I would be looking for.
Thank you, I appreciate all that. Any other movies that you would bring up that kind of exhibit, Partsworks, and then we'll talk a little bit about some other.
Dr. Gerry (51:48.472)
Yeah, I would argue that almost any movie does. It can't help it. I'm, I'll say this, writing my reviews, I haven't yet done Lord of the Rings and I haven't yet done any of the Marvel, like, Avengers movies. You know, because I'm doing a lot of, I'm writing these little reviews and they're, and I'm often picking movies that have been around for a while and that's fine. I want to get to doing more recent stuff once I get going. But, and I look at them from a Christian perspective and from a parts perspective. So almost any movie.
If it's any good at all, has some aspect because it's just so fundamental to who we are as a person. So I will just say this, like if you take a movie like the Lord of the Rings, or it's a book, right? Of course, it's one of my favorites. But, and you look at like the first book was the Fellowship of the Ring, right? And so there's, you've got all these different characters that are brought together. They're all different. So you've got, you know, you've got Aragorn and Boromir as the humans, and then you've got the hobbits and you've got Legolas, the elf, and you've got...
Gimli the dwarf, and you've got Gandalf the wizard, and you have all these different parts, right, if you will, coming together towards some kind of goal. Now they get all separated at the end of it, at the of the first part, but they're kind of representing all these different dimensions of humanity. I'd argue a lot of times they're, many of them are at different points, a kind of Christ figure, but in a way though, like that could be a part that is taking on a Christ-like role, which is...
perfectly fine. You know what mean? So there's a there's a multiplicity that's inherent. And I think when we watch a film like The Lord of the Rings and we see these different characters and how they are different and yet how they do interact, one unconscious way in which we are moved and brought into is that our parts relate to that. At a deep level, we relate to that. So whatever movie you want to pick, like pick Star Wars.
Let's just say the original first Star Wars New Hope movie. Now you've got your Luke Skywalker, you've got your Han Solo, you've got your droids, you've got the Princess Leia. They all have different roles and they all worked in the movies. Usually they reach a pitch as this team or whatnot works together more harmoniously or whatever, bonds and to fulfill whatever.
Dr. Gerry (54:03.362)
You know, and so it's the same if you were to look at, like, say, the Avengers and the Marvel movies, like you were to say, OK, why does this even work for us on a deeper level? Why do we get excited about these teams is because, they're they're all different, whether it's Iron Man with his issues and, you know, how many of us have an Iron Man within us, like a guy who is like invulnerable to everything, right? And whatever. But yet he struggles to handle things sometimes. But how many of us also have a Captain America? Like, we've got a Captain. We've got to do good or.
part of us, right? And we've got a Hulk within us who rages. We've got, you know, so you could go through it, like all these different characters kind of represent parts of us. And that's why these movies at a very innate level, like speak to us.
So good, gosh, I'm excited to read more of those. I read a little bit of one of them, but I'm really excited. We'll make sure to link to that column on your website so people can follow and read through that. Just quickly here, is it fair to say that maybe people's favorite movies are movies that they just like, the parts of them just resonate the most with the main character?
I think so. I think you have to identify. I think that, you you think about, you know, some really popular movies like Spider-Man, regardless of which Spider-Man you like, the Tom Holland or the Andrew Garfield or the, know, the reason you resonate on some level often is because there is a part of us, right, that feels like no one like that. We don't matter that we're somewhat orphaned, that life is hard. You know, Peter Parker and Spider-Man like
You know, I guess he is orphan. lives with his aunt. He has girl problems. He has, you know, job problems. He problems at school. He's being bullied. Like all these different things are happening to him. And I think that we relate, there's a part of us that really relates to that kind of character. And yet he's a superhero. He discovers powers that he didn't, you know, that he gets. He discovers abilities. And yet he, in his case, he also like...
Dr. Gerry (56:01.038)
has to figure out how he wants to exercise that for good, ultimately. But isn't that how we all feel? Don't most of us feel like an awkward, nerdy whatever at times? And growing up in the world's against us, and yet at our brightest moments, we discover truly who we are, and that's greater than we thought. And I think so many of the characters that we relate to, we have those inner connections with.
My favorite movie is actually Batman Begins and I kind of noticed I didn't even realize it until later after you seeing it as like a kid and realizing like my goodness there's like similarities obviously I'm not a billionaire but there's similarities with you know kind of Bruce losing his parents how I felt I kind of lost my parents and things like you said so so good there's so much more we could talk about we're close to the end of our time I do want to ask a couple more questions if that's okay I want to briefly touch on Mother Wounds and
Kind of similarly with movies, I've noticed in all the movies my daughter and I are watching like Cinderella or, know, Rapunzel's movie Tangled, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White. Like there's always like this kind of villainous female. And I'm curious, just talking with you about mother wounds. I remember we had a conversation like a year ago about this really briefly and it stuck with me and I was like, I need to talk to them more about that. So I'm curious, like for everyone listening, like what are mother wounds and how do they affect people? And if you want to use any examples from movies, feel free.
Well, you know, so a mother wound, in a sense like a father wound is where something happens usually right in childhood where our natural needs, our needs for maternal care and maternal nurturing get disrupted in some way. Right. And there are all kinds of possibilities there. Sometimes it's obviously the parents, your mother in this case, like their own woundedness or their own blocks or
but not their own trauma or whatnot, kids resurfaces in some way and they act out something negative, Or it's, sometimes it can even be something out of that person's control, right? Like, you your mother, you know, has a miscarriage or something and goes into a depression or dies even, right? And it's not in her, the mother wouldn't have wanted that, right? But so a child experienced that as a wound, right? As a loss. But then a lot of times the mother wound is where the mother...
Dr. Gerry (58:16.742)
actively in some ways, unaffirms, unnurtures, like fails in some way, right? In that more active way out of whatever brokenness. so, you know, recognizing a little bit, I'm going to make this so simple. It's way more complex, but I'm going to make this so simple. What we need from our fathers is affirmation. We need a lot more, but I'm going to, you know, nutshell it a little bit is affirmation. What we need from our mothers is nurturing. And so
Not the fathers don't nurture and not that mothers don't firm. There's something essential in that. And there's sort of a core thing. There's nothing like being nurtured by your mom. A hundred percent. Dads can't quite do it the same or some other caregiver isn't quite the same. And so, I mean, we can have a substitute mom, like an adopted mom or something and it can be just perfect, but there's nothing like that. And so when a mother is angry or cold or whatnot, it's really difficult.
The movie that stands out for me that maybe it's so old and nobody has seen it, but it's ordinary people. It came out. Yeah, it's powerful. Don't watch it. if, you know, it's like, it's literally like Schindler's List. Like don't watch it if, you know, you're in a bad, like, like a literary kind of thing. But it's a movie, one best picture, actually, I think in like 1980 or 81. And it stars Donald Sutherland, who recently passed away and Mary Tyler Moore. And they're the parents.
It was a shocking because Mary Tyler Moore had a show in the 1970s where she was, you everybody was in love with her. I was a kid. I was in love with her. Like she's so nice, such a lovable character. And before that, she was the wife on the Dick Van Dyke show and everybody was in love with her there. But in ordinary people, she's as cold as ice and she plays it perfectly. And in this case, you've got a, the dad is like some lawyer, some job that's makes a lot of money and the wife's a stay at home mom and they're in some kind of like fancy.
I don't know, upscale Connecticut or somewhere type, you know, like upper middle class kind of thing. And they have two sons, an older son and a younger son. the two sons go out on a boating trip and they're older teenagers. And one of them drowns, the older one. And then the younger one survives. And the older one was the football star. The one who died was this sort of like ideal kind of like perfect son, so to speak. And the younger one was the more awkward, quiet, shy one.
Dr. Gerry (01:00:38.582)
And the mother just, her own grief was such that she completely hated, like wouldn't outwardly say it, but she was completely hateful to the younger son. Wow. Because she couldn't handle her own grief and losing the one son and on some level blamed him also in some way, not that he caused the accident, but she just held onto it. She couldn't resolve her own issues to love her son.
the way he needed, he desperately needed his, and then the father was loving, the father was super kind and unbelievably great. But because of this mother wound, you know, this kid like was really in part because of not, he was, the kid was suffering because he was grieving the loss of his brother and the accident. So, but this movie, I won't say more, but I mean, it, shows depression, like the boy's depression shows grief.
There's even a counselor involved and the process there. It's a, it's a powerful, powerful movie. And to me, took me by surprise to see Mary Tyler Moore play this unfeeling mother. Um, and the crazy thing is she, the actress Mary Tyler Moore had lost her son to suicide, I think a year before. So anyway, analyze that. I'll be curious. But so that's, that's the movie. But, just to say something, I don't know if you want me to do.
want to comment on.
I'm just taking it all and that's just fascinating and it's so helpful to see like especially in like a story because I think a lot of people can relate to that more than the kind of theory of it so thank you for doing that. Yeah I'm just more curious now about just yeah it's one of the last questions like how that typically affects people and if you have any tips for kind of maybe beginning that process like obviously therapy with someone like you would be a great next step but I'm curious how it affects people and what they can do about it.
Dr. Gerry (01:02:23.918)
I think that what happens is we unconsciously go to seek out what we don't have. And so again, I look at it as part, but we have a part and often like when we're young, we had say a mother wound, some kind. And when we're young, we're not well equipped to cope. Like as an adult now, we could handle certain things better, right? But when we're younger, we don't know, we don't have many ways. So we look for ways to cope. So for example, like,
One way, if a boy experiences a pretty terrible mother wound, then there are just all kinds of different ways that somebody could respond to that. But one way would be to be always looking for that mother nurturing in other women. So sometimes they become like over-focused on, you know, like womanizing to win over women in some psychological way, like they're having to compensate.
But also it can turn into like a type of hatred of women because they're holding so much anger toward their mother that then it turns into a hatred toward all women. And it's not always on the surface, right? It's not always the obvious person, but it can show up, right? All this anger there. And again, it's like a part of that person is like angry at women now. So it can show up in men who are abusive toward women, who treat women, who...
you know, because they have all this underlying anger, might not even be connecting the dots, right? For women, it could also be like not having that female connection means they might disconnect from their own feminine nature because their mother was not safe or was threatening or whatever, abandoned or something. And so they therefore internalize that as a rejection of themselves and their own.
So this could mean different things, right? For a woman to either want to be a man or to seek out relationships with women, you know, instead of the opposite sex, not saying that's the reason this happens for everybody, but it's a possible dynamic. And so, you know, again, you know, a hatred of, again, of self in that case, for what, like a man might hate women on some unconscious level and a woman might hate herself therefore on someone.
Dr. Gerry (01:04:39.916)
level because she's been rejected or hurt by her mother.
So good. There's so much there and we'll have to cut it and maybe do a part two on all of this. But thank you for going into that. And I think if nothing else, it brings an awareness. And so if someone is interested in learning more from you, because you're brilliant, thank you so much for doing this. What do you offer? I know you have the book and there's other offerings like you do therapy as well. So please tell us about all that and how people could get it.
So yeah, the book would be great. Read that. We'll explain parts in much more detail and all from a Christian perspective. Soulsandhearts.com, or Souls and Hearts is an apostolate. It's a project that Dr. Peter Malinowski and I do. there there's online communities. This whole ministry is about helping people learn about their inner parts and grow and heal. And it's not therapy.
But it's, but it's often done in community and it's, there's a lot of education. There's a lot of things to learn there. There's so much. So we have online communities, but on there, on that site are my columns. I have a, the parting thoughts column is my movie film and media review. Kingdom within is it's another column that I do that is all about like incorporating deep Christian philosophy and theology and connecting it to a part psychology. so again, looking at the history, like what different.
saints or different early church writers and so on have said and showing how that supports in a way this whole version, this understanding of the human person. So there's that and there's other resources and so there's souls and hearts. then transfigurationcounseling.co is my practice site. I am not so much seeing clients, new clients, but I have a whole team of therapists who most...
Dr. Gerry (01:06:25.046)
All of them are using parts work, but they all have different talents and skills and they're all faith oriented therapists. So, and we're in different states, multiple states, not all the states, but we're in quite a few. So.
Thank you for all that and know what you're doing is revolutionary. And if someone's interested, especially on the therapy side, cause we've gotten a lot of interest people asking like, where do I go for therapy? Do most of your therapists offer like a free consult if they wanted to do that?
They don't usually offer a free like whole consultation. mean, they might do a 15 minute phone call to talk about, see if it's a good fit. kind thing. And if you call our main number, we have a therapist who takes in all those calls. He does a 15 minute, you know, and his job is to figure out who the best person is for that person and to also just understand. And he's a therapist. So he, he's under confidentiality and he, you know, he's wonderful. His name is Kevin.
No, that sounds like an amazing next step for anyone who's been wanting to do therapy, but wasn't sure where to go. I'd recommend it as well. So thank you for coming on the show. It's been great to have you. I just want to give you the final word. What final encouragement or advice would you leave everyone with? Especially, you know, the young people are saying right now come from broken family.
Well, whatever hurt and pain that you've experienced, would just say to bring that and notice that that can be united with Christ's suffering. So you're not alone in your pain and suffering. Yeah, there are lots of other people that also have experienced pain and suffering, course, but in Christ, he unites with you in your suffering and he can transform. And so there can become meaning. Whatever pain and suffering you've
Dr. Gerry (01:08:05.358)
experienced is not, is it was not necessarily meant to be or anything, but it can be transformed into something meaningful. And so to allow that process to happen takes a lot of courage, but I would just encourage people to do that and to recognize that your prayer life can be a lot deeper than, you know, saying prayers like out loud or just a prayer life can be about looking inside. And as we do that, recognizing how beautiful you are.
the level of your soul and how as you look inward, as you connect in with God, it raises you up. So there's an interior exploration that leads to an ascent. So I will just leave you with that.
Joey (01:08:53.069)
I learned so much in the interview yet. There's so much more I wish we could have talked about, we could have covered. And so I have a request. If you want Dr. Jerry to come back, submit a question for him. I'll tell you how to do that in a second. But if we get enough questions, we'll get him back on the show to talk more about mother wounds and to answer your question. So you can submit a question by clicking the link in the show notes or go into restored ministry.com slash ask again, restored ministry.com slash ask, or just click the link in the show notes.
That wraps up this episode of this podcast. helped you, feel free to subscribe or follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. You'll avoid missing future episodes and help us reach more people too. And if you've already done that, feel free to rate or review the show. We appreciate that feedback and that also helps people find the podcast as well. In closing, always remember you are not doomed to repeat your family's dysfunction. You can break that cycle and build a better life. And we are here to help. And keep in mind the words of CSU who said, you can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start right where you are and change the ending.
