#050: Why Didn’t You Choose Me? | Holli Lepley
For 40 years, Holli searched for help to heal from the trauma of her parents’ divorce, including 30 years of counseling. But nothing worked. She had all but lost hope when she found Restored. She claims this podcast has been more healing than 30 years of counseling.
Having struggled with depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts, she also shared how Restored has “literally saved my life.” If you’ve wondered how Restored can help you or someone you love or lead, this episode is for you. In it, we discuss:
How her parents’ divorce came out of the blue, which research suggests may be most damaging
How her dad’s quick remarriage hurt her as much or almost more than the divorce itself
The sense of loss she felt when she stopped seeing her siblings due to the divorce
Plus, two huge announcements at the start of the show!
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
My guest today, struggled for so long to find anyone even among so-called experts who could simply understand how devastating it was for her to experience her parents' divorce and the breakdown of her family. As a 10 year old girl, she did search for help, but she struggled to find it for over 40 years.
And after almost 30 years of counseling, 30 years, she had all but lost hope. When she found restored, she told me that restored in this podcast specifically have been more effective in helping her than 30 years of counseling. And she said, she's just never found anyone saying what we're saying, what our guests have said and what our content has said.
And she really wishes that she would've had this 40 years ago when she was a 10 year old girl and having struggled in her life with suicidal thoughts. She shares how this podcast has literally saved her. So amazing. So humbling, Holly. I know you're listening right now. We're just so glad to be a part of your story for this opportunity to serve you and be a help tact as a guide along your journey.
And you were right. All along. What you went through was traumatic. What you went through was devastating. You deserve your pain to be validated. You deserve for someone to recognize the hurt you've endured so you can heal and finally move past all of this. And if you listening right now, if you're like Holly, if you feel like nothing has worked help you heal from the trauma you've experienced in your family, because of your parents' divorce separation, you're in the right place.
Stick with us. We're here to help you. And if you're someone who's asked the question, maybe you've heard about resort, or maybe you're finding us for the first time. If you've you ask the question is restored actually helping people. And if so, how it's a fair question. Keep listening. You're gonna find out.
It's a very fair question. And I know we have a fair share of skeptics. People who think like, eh, maybe they're not doing such good work. We even have some haters. For example, one woman emailed me. I kid you not, this is not a joke. One woman emailed me. And she said that. She said, please, in no way, go to sleep at night thinking you have helped anyone and are doing a service when it comes down to it.
Again, not a joke. That's a direct quote. And Holly, in this episode shares how effective this podcast and this ministry has been to help her. And it can help you too, as someone who comes from a broken family. And I don't say all this to brag, I just say this to show you that. We can help you and we want to help you.
And by listening what you're gonna get out of this episode, we talk about how her parents' divorce came totally outta the blue, which research actually suggests maybe the most damaging type of divorce. We also speak about the pain. She felt watching her dad show up at the house to go through her mom's things.
While her mom was gone. We hit on how her dad's quick remarriage following the divorce, hurt her as much. And maybe even more than the divorce itself, she touches on the sense of loss. She felt too, when she stopped seeing her siblings due to the divorce. In other words, not only did she lose her dad in, in a way, both of her parents, uh, she also lost her siblings too.
And she shares kind of an interesting experience where she went to this divorce support group, thinking it would be for her. But it wasn't for children of divorce. It was just for, uh, married couples or married people, I should say, who wanted to get a divorce. And so she quickly realized when she was at this meeting, that it wasn't for her.
And there was just no mention of the kids at all. Um, but she did stick it out and she tells that story. And then we also talk about other struggles that she's dealt with. Like thinking that her husband who's been so good to her, will eventually leave her and dealing with the silence from her family, from her parents, especially for the past 40 years.
No one talked about this very real and painful problem that she's dealt with that has been in the family. And finally, just her wrestling with the question. Why wasn't I worth it for you guys? To work it out. Some just cuts straight to the heart. And also in addition to all that, we've two big announcements from us at restored.
We'll get into those right away. So keep listening.
Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you heal and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce, separation or broken marriage. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host joy. Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 52 big announcements. Like I said, first off my wife and I have welcomed our daughter into the world.
Her name is Lucy. She's the best. She's beautiful. Uh, her daddy's heart already belongs to her. We are obsessed. And if you wanna see some photos of her, just follow us on Instagram at restored help. Again, that's at restored help and you can see some pictures of Lucy on. I. Next we've written. Our first publication will be coming out in September of this year.
It's a practical guide to really help you successfully navigate the pain and the problems from your parents' divorce or separation. And it's in a question and answer format. It's a short format, so it's a quick read, but it really gives you practical guidance on different questions and different situations, different challenges that people like us face such as.
Everyone acts like my parents' divorce. Isn't a big deal. Is it wrong for me to feel hurt by it? What can I do to cure my loneliness? How can I better deal with my anxiety? What's your advice for navigating the holidays and other life events? How do I overcome my fear of love, relationships and intimacy? I, I feel broken.
Like something is wrong with me. How can I heal and feel whole again? And why does God let bad things happen? Like my parents divorce, there's over 30 questions in this booklet for you again, to offer really practical guidance so that you can successfully navigate these really challenging things that really no one offers us any guidance on.
And so what we're trying to do is really create what we wish we would've had years ago and we've spent months doing it. We're so excited to release this to, to give this to you guys, to offer. To you. And when I say booklet, what I mean again is a, a quick read. It's not a brochure, not a pamphlet, but it's really a quick read.
It'll be gosh, 150 pages, uh, or more. And that will come up in, in September. Like I said, I'm just teasing it right now, but we'll have more info to come. We'll have info on our website. And if you wanna learn more about the booklet and about some of the special pre-order offers that we'll be, uh, offering before the launch of the book, just subscribe to our email list, go to restored ministry.com again, restored ministry.com.
Ministry is just. Singular and just scroll to the bottom of the page. You'll see a form. You can put your name in, put your email, answer a quick question, and then you'll be on our email list. And whenever the book goes live, you'll hear about it. And we'll give you some special offers, uh, through that email list as well.
Uh, you can sign up there on our homepage on the website, or if you wanna sign up at, uh, the show notes page ever, sword ministry.com/fifty, the form's on there too. We wanna make it easy for you guys to sign up for email list so you can get those special offers again. So excited to share this with you.
We've been working hard on this. We want it to be topnotch for you all, and I'm excited to hear your feedback. So, so stay tuned in the next podcast episode, we'll be talking more about it. We're gonna give you a sneak peek of some of the content, and I give you an opportunity to get some of it for free as well.
And it'll be very reasonably priced. We wanna get it out to as many people as we can, especially young people, teenagers, and young adults who really need this guidance. Honestly, this is what I wish. I would've had as a young person, just kind of a, a manual playbook on how to deal with those unique challenges that people like us face.
So keep an eye out for that. My guest today is Holly lly. She has been a child of divorce for 40 years. And then as the youngest of five children, she was only 10 years old when her parents divorced. The divorce really defined her life. Not only as a child, but as a grown woman too, which you'll hear her talk about in the interview and following the divorce.
She suffered from depression and anxiety for 40 years. And she spent countless years in counseling trying to overcome being a, a child of divorce going through this trauma. And she says that nothing worked until I found ReSTOR. Finally, people who understood how I felt and gave this. A voice at 50 years old, I'm learning.
It's not too late to find peace within the pain. Thanks to ReSTOR. So beautiful and so humbling, honestly. And she, she is married. Holly is married to an incredible patient man. She says, uh, they'll, they'll celebrate 31 years in November this year. So beautiful. They've three, uh, children together and a daughter-in-law and the ages range from 27 to 17.
So pretty young family and Holly, uh, promised herself that her children would never have to say that they were children of divorce. She didn't wanna repeat what she experienced in her family. And she's kept that promise. And she's very proud of that. She recently retired from the airline industry and she currently works for the state of Utah.
She and her husband are planning to move to Florida in a few years when they retire and all of her children will be joining them. Beautiful and amazing. So without waiting any longer, here's my conversation with my friend, Holly,
Holly, welcome to the show. It's great to have you. Oh, thank you, Joey. So much for having me. I've been looking forward to this interview and I, I'm excited to hear your story, so let's go right to it. Take us back in time. Take us to the day when that 10 year old you, uh, learned that your parents were separating and divorcing, um, what happened?
How did you react to it? Yeah, absolutely. This is actually one of the very few days that I have any memory of. Um, I actually don't remember a whole lot of childhood, to be honest with you. I think that's more of a chosen way that I've dealt with a lot of this, but mm-hmm , this is of course one day that I just remember everything about that hour or so of yeah, just my parents sitting myself down with sister.
And just kind of my dad, I remember him saying that he was gonna be moving out and leaving, and I just remember not understanding any of it. Mm-hmm because growing up to that point, I don't remember a, you know, any fighting, any confliction, things like that. I don't remember any of seeing that mm-hmm so I was very much taken aback to what was going on.
Of course, I remember crying and, and trying to understand. but at 10 years old, it was just not something that I could comprehend without any forewarning. Mm-hmm , you know, my, my parents just didn't, I don't know if they chose not to fight in front of us or just to kind of keep us out of it. So it just came out of nowhere.
Mm-hmm really, it was totally something I wasn't. Expecting at all. So, um, I don't know if you want me to go into a little backstory of before getting there sure. To that would be great. That point. I mean, only because it just, it feels almost like I had two lifetimes. Mm. One prior to this and, and then one after the one prior to was, you know, of course my childhood home that I remember, um, I'm the youngest of five children.
I believe two of my siblings were at this point, moved out and married and there was only a couple of us left. And I remember, you know, that time being very happy, very, you know, my mom was home full time, great memories of the neighborhood, the whole thing. And then all of a sudden we just had to leave and we had to move to this different house and never understood why.
Of course, I, I know now why, but. Back then I never knew. And that was really traumatic for me to leave. And then we got settled into this new house and then I learned he would be leaving. Hmm. So it was kind of like getting hit by a brick wall really? yeah. You know, that I never saw coming at all. So it was really hard to deal with that.
And I know you and I have talked that I grew up, um, as a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. Mm-hmm , which most people know, know us as Mormons and learn from a young, young age, families are forever. That's all we ever learned. Families are forever. You know, this is, this is the plan.
And then to be hit by. Well, now dad's moving out and we're getting divorced was just, I, I can't even explain what that felt like, cuz I didn't understand. I don't, you know, how does that happen? Mm-hmm even at this age, I'm not sure. I'm really great at explaining that, but that was really difficult to be at that age.
And just be told. Okay, he's leaving. And then he, he left that night. Oh, wow. And that was it. Hmm. And then the new life started. It was, it was really, um, hard. I mean, I appreciate probably that. I, I didn't see the fighting going on. However, there's bad sides to that as well. You don't see the conflict, you never learn how to resolve it, which I never saw those things.
And in the era that I grew up, which would've been, you know, the seventies, eighties, You, you didn't talk about those things. Our parents didn't talk about those things. So it was something that was never discussed, never sat us all down and said, here's what's going on. Uh, we're not getting along or anything.
And so even post, uh, divorce, it still was never talked about. So I never understood or came from any understanding as to why that all happened. All of a sudden, I just knew that dad was gone and he still lived close by, but. It was like two different worlds that I didn't know how to internalize and we never talked about it.
Wow. Yeah. Yeah, no, that, that's such a heavy thing to carry with you. And not only did the foundation of your family fall apart, but like you said, this belief that you had that families are forever, which is really how it should be. That was shattered too. Cuz mm-hmm this reality in your life seemed to contradict that belief.
And so I'm sure it made you. Everything. And I remember that was certainly the, the case for me. And I remember, uh, yeah, I was 11 years old. So just a year older than you were when my parents separated. And I remember we were with a family friend or maybe a relative. I can't remember that portion of it, but I remember driving by our house and seeing like police cars there.
Um, nothing like. Violent or anything like that had happened. But I think there was a just conflict between my parents, that my mom had chosen to get the police involved. Yeah. And so immediately that was like the first exposure. I think that I had to the fact that something was happening, it came totally out of the blue, just like you said.
And so then I, I mean, a million question marks went up in my head, like what is going on at our house. And then later was when my mom sat us down and broke the news that, uh, dad will no longer be living with us. In fact, he was already gone and they were gonna get divorced. So totally relate to you. And there's research that actually says, you probably know this already, but there's research that says that, uh, those divorces that are low conflict, especially the ones that come out of the blue can actually be more damaging for people like us because, um, it's totally unexpected.
It's totally unexpected. Mm-hmm and things appear to be fine. So then we go through life thinking, well, what isn't gonna fall apart or what. Won't fall apart at a moment's notice. And so we kind of have to watch our back constantly thinking that, well, there's a disaster on every corner. Sure. And, and I think it's so important to know that as a child, I didn't learn to deal with those conflicts and that open communication was just not a thing.
You know, we're just not gonna talk about it. Yeah. And unfortunately, in my situation, the let's not talk about it has lasted for 40 years. Hmm. And it's only been recently that I've started asking my mom some questions about then and reasons as to why, and my adult self can understand. And I think of myself like how, I don't know how I would've explained that to my children, but asking questions.
Now I understand a little bit more each time I, I talk a little bit, but it's been 40 years of no discussion, which, you know, is really hard because I went from having this little family of the seven of us, um, you know, going to church every Sunday, doing everything that we're supposed to be doing to just, it felt like a, you know, like a, like a dam just breaking and that water just opening up and destroying everything.
Even, even my parents, it changed who they were. And I don't know if maybe that's just cuz it, let them maybe hurt their true colors. Come out a little bit. I mean, I certainly don't wanna speak for. and this is in no way judgemental to them, but sure. Um, you know, things changed very quickly in our house.
Although of a sudden my dad would start just showing up at my house and he would be going through my mom's things. Mm-hmm um, when just the kids were there, mm-hmm, like, just when I was there, I, I didn't know how to deal with that. I knew it was wrong. I knew something. This was not right to have him in here going through her things.
But again, we don't talk about it. Thankfully there, there really was only one time at the, it was a pretty pivotal time that he had shown up. And I, I guess he wanted to talk with her. Ended up locking her in the bathroom and she ended up putting her hand through the window, trying to get out. Mm. I was home and I, again, that's another thing that I remember every moment of happening.
Mm-hmm , mm-hmm I remember being outside the door, yelling and crying and, and then her coming out and she had up stitches all up and down her hand, you know, it's very traumatic. Mm-hmm to see that. And as a 10 year old, who, I just don't even know where it came from. These are two people. I, I don't know all of a sudden these aren't the same two people who've been raising me for the past 10 years.
So it was very, very confusing. Yeah. And then my, my dad remarried very quickly, which was probably almost. More difficult, if not as difficult as the divorce itself. Sure. That was just a huge, huge part of what defined the rest of my life. And, and that's what it did. It defined, you know, 40 years of everything I did every single day mm-hmm , you know, so everyone who you talk to, I commands so much for having that strength to speak up because having gone through this now, here's my dad who has chosen another family.
Yeah. You know, how do, how do you deal with that? I, I still don't know how you deal with that and it's yeah, it's constant. He just remarried so fast that I just knew every time he made that choice. Choosing the other family, it took all of my self worth away that I wasn't more important than they were.
Right. Cuz he was choosing them over you. Yes mm-hmm and, and all the time mm-hmm and unfortunately, you know, that's continued all through my life, but that was really a pivotal pivotal thing for me. Was that being remarried so quickly. I, as a child, I don't know, you know, I'm barely getting over if they're all they're not married anymore, but.
Yet he's marrying someone else. That was really hard. Yeah. It just kind of snowballed from there. You know, mm-hmm because everything I knew was gone, I mean, I, I no longer had a family. My siblings, unfortunately, being older than I was chose sides. Um, you know, with one parent or another, for whatever reason, I don't again have any judgment on them.
And cuz their experience was very different than mine. Mm-hmm I, I can't have any judgment on what they did, but all of a sudden they were all just gone. So I had no family left my mom now all of a sudden had to go back to the workforce because we were just left. So I was used to being home. You know, with mom home.
And she would be there every day when I got home from school and dinner was always made. And you know, that picture perfect kind of life that you think of. Yeah. Obviously I didn't know as a child, that that's really not the way it was, but sure. In my eyes, that's how it was now of a sudden she had to go back to work.
Um, I became a latchkey kid now who would have to come home alone every day. Didn't know when she'd be able to come home. So everything fell apart. Um, I stopped seeing siblings cuz they kind of would chose my dad's side. So the older siblings kind of went with him. The younger two of us kind of went with my mom.
So that just split everything completely up. We had to move again because we could no longer afford to live where we were. So we had to move into a very small little, two bedroom. I had to share a room with my mom kind of a thing just to make ends meet. And that was really hard. I had to change schools, which all of a sudden I'm going to a school that really wasn't the safest school.
Um, so I started seeing things. In my, what we like to call the Utah bubble that we live in. I had some things I had never witnessed before and now sudden I'm seeing this kind of different stuff and that was, it just felt all confusing. Yeah. How is someone that young supposed to cope with all of this?
It's it's impossible. Mm-hmm with, unless, you know, maybe you have like incredible support. Maybe you can get through it, but it's all, it's all about surviving it. It's it's just not supposed to be this way. It's so damaging. And it always baffles me how people will say, well, well, children are resilient.
They'll be fine. Mm it's. You know, the divorce isn't that big of a deal. Yeah. But then we just constantly hear stories from people like you. Most of us, most people like us are not willing to even talk about this because we're afraid of hurting our parents. Mm-hmm we, we wanna protect them. We love. And so yes, when you really look into it though, and that's what this entire podcast has been about, um, it is really, really damaging.
And like you said before, like how is a 10 year old supposed to wrap their head around this? And, and then in the years that followed, of course, how are you supposed to deal with all these changes and the, the additional trauma that's happening, uh, in your life? It is a lot mm-hmm I mean, thank. We're not doomed to stay there, but it, it is a ton when you're going through it.
Well, and, and unfortunately, I mean, I, I did get stuck there right in my brain for 40 years have been stuck there. Hmm. When I say that, that defined me, it definitely 100% defined, most everything I've done to be 50 years old and still haven't been able to deal with this is just crazy to then hear other people say children, not resilient.
You know, like, no, absolutely. No. They're, they're not always resilient. And if they go through something like this and I've been taught for so long, we just don't talk about it. That that has to go somewhere. The pain had to go somewhere. And so that frustrates me when I hear the same thing that kids, kids will handle it, they can make those changes.
And, um, you know, I don't always agree with that. And that's, that's, it is kind of a hard thing too, to be an adult child of divorces that a lot of people really just don't agree with position on things like that. And so you're constantly throughout your adult life, at least the experiences I've had been made to feel that you're wrong.
Like I'm wrong. I shouldn't feel that way. I should just get over it. Yeah, I should have just let it go. And I get that a lot from adult to adult telling me that as well. Mm-hmm , you know, I, I, this is just a little funny side note is I at one time, I think I was some. 40 35 maybe and found a group of people who needed help with going through divorce.
And the way I read the description was it would be something helpful to me. Mm-hmm so I went to this a group and it was probably 10, 12 people. Well come to find out it was a group of married people going, trying to figure out divorce. And I'm the only person in this group of people who is a child of divorce.
Oh man. Awkward. Right. Yeah. And so the question is you stay, do you go, where do you do? And I thought, well, maybe I could benefit a little from hearing where they're coming from. Sure. Unfortunately, all it did was make me more frustrated because it was just all about them and the angers they had between each other.
Mm-hmm and not even thinking about the kids. Wow. Yeah, it was a, it, I stuck it out for the six weeks or whatever. And, um, I, I was forthcoming and saying, look, I'm, I'm not divorced. I'm am a child of a divorce though. Um, so I, maybe I have something that will help you. I don't know, but it was very different to sit and listen to that side of it as well.
So I try not to be judgemental people going through that, or, you know, not every case is the same, but sure. I would hope that for a few minutes that people could hear our side too. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, there certainly are cases where it's unavoidable because maybe there's violence or there's drugs or there's of course, stuff like that.
But most cases aren't like that. And of course, statistically. You know, holds up the estimates out there that maybe 30% of divorces are like that, where there's like violence or abuse, danger, things like that. And then 70% are just where the most common reason for divorce is irreconcilable differences.
That's the most common quoted reason for divorce. And so it's, so this fascinating that in that force support group, I guess we'd call it. Yeah. There's no mention of the kids, which is very, um, indicative of, of kind of how we approach this as a culture overall. It's like the parents, you know, obviously there's issues, I'm not making light of that.
There's some real problems that need to be solved and you know, I'm not passing judgment on everyone. Who's struggling cuz that happens so often in marriage. Of course. Um, but, but yeah, just the complete, I guess, forgetfulness of the kids, it's really sad. Yeah. Yeah. And I, a big, huge part of that for me was one I always questioned why wasn't I worth it?
Mm. Why wasn't I worth it for you guys to work it out? What was so bad that. I wasn't worth the trouble to fix this. And that is something that has stuck with me for my entire life. And I've struggled a lot with insecurity and feeling like I'm just not, I'm not worth it, you know? And I know I've discussed with you.
I, I went into depression. Which I've suffered with for a long time. Mm-hmm and that included suicidal thoughts, which, you know, my family has no idea. I went through that still to this day. They don't know that I suffered with that. Wow. Because it's not comfortable to talk about with somebody who doesn't understand and you know, I'm coming from a place where neither of my parents were, or excuse me, their parents were not divorced.
Mm-hmm your grandparents. Okay. My grandparents were all married till they passed away. Even my husband, his parents, same thing. So none of them understood what that felt like. So it was very difficult for me to understand why wasn't they enough to keep the family together, you know? and that's something I've dealt with through my marriage, with everything.
And I still, to this day, I don't have a relationship with my dad at this point. Um, because I've spent, you know, 40 years dealing with not feeling or wanting the question answered as to why didn't you choose me? Because that's really how I feel is you, you are not choosing me in everything that you're doing.
Whereas my mom, she stayed with us. She was there for us. She financially put herself out there for us. She didn't remarry till after I got married and said that she wouldn't. Because we were more important. Wow. So it's kind of funny that I feel not so much that way with my mom, but a hundred percent with my dad as to why don't you choose me?
You know, even when I got married, even a situation that had to do with my own wedding, where there was an issue with me not wanting his wife on my wedding invitations, because she's not my mom mm-hmm and that's honestly how I felt like I want, my mom deserves 100% to be on there. And my dad, those are my parents.
Mm-hmm and yet my invitations showed up printed with her on there. Mm. So it's, it's just been, I have story after story, after story of that, of not, you're not choosing me and I don't get that. So especially when I had kids, it even brings it up more. Mm-hmm , that's kind of where my core belief of myself comes from.
is why wasn't I enough? Yeah. And that's such a great question. And it's such a debilitating question because we might never receive the full answer for that, which is yeah. Just so hard. And I'm so sorry for everything you've been through it. Every thing you're talking about, I'm like, yep, yep, yep. Yep.
Mm-hmm I just totally relate to what you're saying. Even down to some of the details, like, you know, your dad showing up to go through your mom's things when she wasn't around that, that happened with my family too. So, so many of the things that you said and just how defining this has been like, even, even as a young teenager, uh, just a few years removed from the separation.
I just knew I'm like, that thing was so pivotable for me. mm-hmm and yet, for some reason, no one was talking about it, which is baffling. Like yeah. You know, just like you there's so much silence around this problem. And, uh, yeah, so man, it just breaks my heart that you've had to struggle like this for 40 years.
Yeah. And there's been just no one there to give you the help that you needed. It shouldn't be this way. It just shouldn't be this way. No, it shouldn't. And you know, um, it's not because I didn't look for help because I did. I mean, like I told you, I suffer from depression. I, I reached out, I've gone to counseling for 30 years almost, um, with counselors trying to help me and none of them got it.
And I've had more than one counselor. I've had several and you know, and I would always try to make sure I researched and kind of went with who I felt would be comfortable with my situation, my beliefs, the whole thing. Sure. And not to say that they weren't great counselors that had nothing to do with it.
And maybe there were things that they just couldn't say, but in all of those years of counseling, I have never been affected the way I was listening to your podcast. Hmm. Because for the first time in ever, and I literally can say ever there was somebody else who was saying what I had felt and understood that, and those counselors never, they couldn't do that.
They could say, oh yes, you have depression. Um, you're sad. You're, you know, you need to reconcile things. They'd give me books to read nothing helped because I never heard the words spoken. Like you guys have spoken them. To where I can. I almost just wanna jump up and be like, yes. Finally, somebody understands what it feels like to live through this and know how painful it is.
It's I'm not, I'm not kidding with that. That's not even an over exaggeration of the 30 years I've had the counseling has not helped me as much as this has wow. Ever because, and I, I think it's just because it's, nobody has understood. Whereas you, when I know there's other people hurting the same way I am, it's just feels more like, okay, you get it.
Mm-hmm, a lot of it too. Maybe has to do with trust. Like I trust how you feel because you've lived it. Mm. Yeah. I've had a lot of problems with trust in my lifetime and getting close to people. Um, because you know, they're gonna leave mm-hmm right. I mean, yeah, if you let yourself get close to someone, they're just gonna walk away from you cuz that's what happens.
And so I never let people close mm-hmm um, I always would just kind of keep them away from me enough, but it, it almost feels like you're an outsider looking in mm-hmm it almost feels like an out of body experience all the time where I'm an outsider looking into other people going, wow, that must feel great to have that family.
Right. But I'm so removed from it that I can never let myself be part of that. Wow. Like I don't honestly, at my age I have a hard time really understanding how people have such close friends. Mm-hmm , it's such an odd thing to me to have people that you can just fill a hundred percent of yourself with.
Because I've never had that. Totally. So to hear you guys speak about it is just like this light bulb moment for me. And I think I've told you this, but I still deal with those kind of thoughts, the bad thoughts when things happen. I go straight to that dark place. I think anybody who's been there understands, oh yeah.
That I go from good to, okay. Something's happening. I'm going straight to that dark place where I don't need to be here anymore. And now when that happens to me, I go and listen to your podcasts and I can feel like there's people who understand. And that's all I think I've ever looked for for the past 40 years.
And I've never had that, which don't you think is amazing that I've never come across that it is. And I'm just standing here speechless. And I know, you know, we've talked for like outside of this show about your story and, um, it brought me to tears because. It's just should not be this way. And I'm so glad that we've been able to help you and, and you know, more than just me, of course, it's my team and it's the guests and who've come on this show, but it's so, uh, I'm so glad, uh, the same time, I'm really sad that it's taken this long for just something to be helpful to you because everyone else is telling us like, Oh, just move on and you'll be fine.
But really what you were looking for, like you said, is some sort of validation, some sort of affirmation saying, there's nothing wrong with you for feeling this way. In fact, you're it's right. Like you're feeling the right way. Given the circumstance that your family just was destroyed, your dad chose another family over you and all the other things that followed.
And it's just tragic that there, and you're not alone. That, that's the thing that's crazy about this too. It's like Holly, you know, obviously it's amazing. Like you're so articulate listening. I could listen to you talk forever, seriously. and you're so articulate with these experiences that you've had. Um, yet there's so many people out there who either won, they lack the awareness.
They can't even put this stuff into words, um, or two, even if they can, um, like, like you found for, for most of your life, there's just nothing out there to help them. And yeah. You know, it can end very badly, like you're saying, even with the suicidal thoughts, which as, you know, people like us are, were more likely to attempt suicide statistically.
And it's just so tragic that there's been so little done for people like us. So thank you for being part of the solution, being on the show. And I, I know this episode's gonna give a lot of people, a lot of hope, you know, the biggest thing was, and I, and I've been married for close to 31 years now. Mm-hmm and I went into it very much.
Like divorce is not an option. So whoever is with me, it. It's not even on the table. So one thing I, I did get very lucky with my partner. Um, my husband is a just amazing man that never gave up on me as much as I tried to make him give up on me. Wow. I tried and I tried to push him away and I walk away and I just kept waiting for the day he was gonna leave me.
Mm. Because that's what husbands do. Right. That's honestly, I can tell you that's how I felt. Yeah. And I will be a hundred percent truthful and I've shared this with him. That it's only been until recently that I'm finally believing that he's not going anywhere. Wow. And we're celebrating 31 years together this year.
Well, married, we've been together 32. Um, and I got married very young. I got married two weeks after I turned 20. Okay. Yep. Yep. So very young and all 30 years I've just been waiting and he, he tells me all the time, I'm not going anywhere. You are stuck with me, but I never believed him, you know? And that, that a hundred percent comes from this divorce experience.
Oh yeah. That I have never believed I am worth enough for him to stick around. There's somebody out there better for. is how I always feel. So why I just need to let him go. So he can go be with whoever where it's, like I said, just recently, I've, I'm really starting to feel like he's, he's not gonna leave me.
Mm-hmm , you know, and we've had three kids together and, um, we in this divorce definitely define the type of mom that I am. It changed everything and, and things will always periodically come up. The more experiences I have that bring me back to this divorce. When I started having my kids, it got even harder, honestly, because then I'm like, I love this little being more than life itself.
How could I ever do anything to hurt that? Mm, wow. And that's how I felt all of a sudden, I know, I feel as a mom, How I feel about my children and I would never hurt them intentionally ever, but then I would feel like, okay, so was, did my parents not feel that way about me? And why not? Yeah. You know, I mean, that, that stuck me for a long time.
And, and throughout my children's lives, I had to make everything perfect for them. Mm-hmm , you know, holidays had to be perfect birthdays, pretty much everything that I missed out on, I had to make right. For them, you know, but I didn't realize that's what I was doing until a lot later in life. Yeah. But that's what I was trying to prove to them.
And I still do this. I'm, I'm very guilty of this constantly trained to prove that I'm a good mom and that I will never hurt them. And I would never put them through the experience I went. Wow. You know, so that's, the divorce definitely affected everything that had to do with my marriage, raising my children, which, you know, they're pretty much raised now ages 17 to 27.
So, but it still brings up questions for me, which is amazing. Cuz I'm to the point where in the near future, hopefully I'll have grandkids. Mm-hmm I could never in a hundred years imagine not being a part of their lives. So therefore it brings up the pain again, as to why can't my dad be a part of my kids' lives or why, how do you choose not to be a part of.
I don't understand me neither. And, and I can't, honestly, I can't, I can't answer those questions. He can't answer those questions. I've, I've tried. I've I've literally written down. This is what I need you to say, and that doesn't work either. Wow. So, I mean, as far as like healing from it, I don't have a ton of advice on healing from, because I am such at an early stage mm-hmm in the healing process.
I don't feel like I've even begun to start healing until I found you guys and related to all of your podcasts. So well, and I just, I think I mentioned this to you. I. Just listen to the one last week where one of your, I don't know if she's on your staff or not, but wrote that your divorce article. I was at my work desk, just literally crying as I read that because I have never heard anybody verbalize the pain like that.
It was amazing to me. Wow. It was just one more feeling of, oh my gosh, they get it. Somebody understands. And so, you know, I kind of hope one thing I, you know, would just kind of hope is that people never give up trying to find that. I mean, who knew at 50 years old, I would still be, I can be brought to tears in five seconds about my parents' divorce.
It's terrible. I, I would never wish this on anybody. It's, you know, not something, I mean, I wish I could talk to every person who was thinking about going through that and say, look, please don't and here's. So it's affected every part of my life, my marriage. And I mean, I'm very proud of the fact I've been married this long and happily.
So it kind of gave, gives me some faith back into family, which even just saying my hearing, my hip self say that is strange because at 50 years old, I'm just getting the thought of family. Back in there. Mm-hmm . Yeah. Even though, even though I've raised children for 27 years. No, that makes so much sense though.
And it's really inspiring. I have to say, I mean, there's so much that you said that I want to comment on, but I can't comment on everything. Oh. Um, but it's just, it's incredible that you've gone on and built such a beautiful marriage and you know, of course not a perfect marriage. Everyone has this thought of course, but just the fact that you're together.
And that's one thing that you reminded me of earlier is that as kids, we don't really. Care about the problems in our parents' marriage. Like obviously if there's something that's very overt and violent and things like that, of course that affects us at time. Mm-hmm . But, um, but the, the other issues, just like you said, it's like, well, yeah, my parents maybe have some problems and that's that, but they're together and we're a family and to, to kids, it's, that's what we want.
That's what we look for. Um, we, we don't expect our parents to be perfect. We expect them to love us and to stick with us and to fight for us. And when that's taken away, that's way more damaging than going through some of the issues that our parents have in their marriage. Yeah. That's perfect. That's exactly true.
And I think the longer I'm married and the more experience I've had makes me even question more as to why mm-hmm because I've gone through a happy per se life. I mean, I, I will say that. I think I am very lucky to have married, who I'm married to. Sure. If it had been maybe someone else who couldn't have put up with everything, I put him through dealing with this depression and all of this and, and keep in mind the majority of this 30 years, I didn't talk to him about this stuff.
Wow. It just, again, I didn't know how he would ever understand because his parents were together. There's no way he could understand how I felt so to not have that understanding, which is in no fault to his own, because I'm grateful. He didn't have to understand. Right. But I, you know, I didn't have that.
And so I chose. To continue the cycle of not talking about it. That's a conscious choice I've made every single day is not to talk about it until recently, but there's definitely in her dear divorce letter. There's just one line. And I have it written that just that where divorce makes you feel unlovable and you're not worthy and you're not good enough.
That's how I have felt. Even in the security of a long marriage, which again, no fault to his own. I feel like I got super lucky to have had somebody who would stand by me through all of this and fight and say, I'm not leaving, but if you look, you know, if you stand back and look at it and really think about it, I had this one decision when I was 10 years old made for me.
Right. Um, to say all these things that you're, you're not good enough, you weren't worth it. And I let that control 30 years. Of love and acceptance. And I'm not walking out on you yet. That one decision when I was 10 years old was more powerful than 30 years. My goodness that says it, right? Like I stop and think about that and think that's that it was more powerful for me from that age to have lived with this for 30 years.
Even though I have a man standing by me who says every day, I love you. I accept you. Just like you are. I will never leave you every single day says that to me. And after 30 years, I'm just now getting that. That's amazing to me. Yeah. It speaks volumes. Yeah. When you hear children are resilient, I'm like, I hope most kids are, but that one decision has been in my brain every single day for 30 years, even though someone's standing next to me saying, I'm not leaving you mm-hmm and I don't believe it.
Wow. That's just, I couldn't have said it better. That is so profound. And it's, it's hard to wrap your head around that. And mm-hmm, I think people who say that kids are resilient. I think there's a few reasons to it. One, maybe they want them to be, and two, they observe us from the outside. You know, Holly, if I looked at your life, I would probably say, oh, you've had a good, happy, yes, successful life.
You mm-hmm , you know, were successful. Um, in your family, like raising your kids, you have great kids, you have a good marriage, you had a successful career, like all these things. Um, but they don't see on the inside, they don't see what we're wrestling with. And I think that's why there's this belief that we're so resilient.
That's, that's perfect because that's exactly the, the way it is too. People do look into my life and they're like, oh, you do everything for your kids. And you, you make their birthday so fun. And, um, you know, every little even St Patrick's day, whatever. There's always a little something or you're right though, you're there, they don't see inside and they don't know why I'm doing all that.
They don't know why, you know, I have to be everything. I have to be home the home mom and I have to be the PTA president and I have to be, you know, doing everything with my kids, all, you know, that kind of a thing. Mm-hmm and they look in and they're like, yeah, you have a great, like, but reality is it's been, I don't a living hell, really trying to deal with it and deal with it alone and alone was by my choice.
You know, I can, I decided I made the decision to, to struggle silently with this and just try to fix it on my own. But it was always because in the back of my head, I'm just not worth it. Mm-hmm mm-hmm. It's hard when people always say, well, say to me, well, you're not alone. The minute someone will say that my brain automatically says, yes, you are alone.
Mm-hmm , mm-hmm, it's automatic. Yep. So that's why I think what you are doing. And these people that are contributing to this are just miracle workers. Because for the first time ever, I feel like I'm not alone. So beautiful is crazy to me. Like I said, after 40 years to have not found anything that has worked to finally feel somebody who knows how you feel.
I mean, it's just incredible. And I can't thank you enough for that, because I honestly feel like you have saved me, literally. I think about the words you guys talk about all of you every single day, because for me that's this divorce has been every single day of my life. Yeah. And now I'm trying to choose to go with.
Okay. Here's what they've said. Here's this beautiful letter that as painful as this, that she had to write it, somebody gets it. Never have. I had that ever. So I can honestly, with all my heart say, you guys have literally saved me because I see hope now. Hope that the next, hopefully 30 years I have with my husband, I can let him in more because I don't feel like I'm crazy.
you know, that's terrible to say, but I don't feel like I'm crazy. Like I did before, as far as nobody understand, you're not crazy. No, this is man. You're making me tear up, like, thank you so much for everything you said. Cause yeah, you're the reason we do this. And so thank you for just sharing your story.
Just the such profound insights you have into this. I, I could tell you've thought about this a lot and you've wrestled with this a ton and mm-hmm, , I'm just so glad we've been able to serve you and play a role in this and it's humbling to hear, but, um, it's, it's amazing at the same time. And uh, like I shared with you before we we're recording, I shared some of the things that you've said with my team and that made them so happy just to know that this is meaningful work that they're doing.
And um, that episode you were talking about for anyone who wants to go back and listen to that, which I highly recommend, and I know all you would as well, that's episode eight, That's episode eight with Miranda Rodriguez. And, uh, in the first few minutes of that, she shares this article. She wrote this letter called dear divorce, and it's just so beautiful and moving.
Um, and even if you listen to nothing else in that episode, just listen to that letter. And it's, it's very profound and, and moving just like, uh, your story, Holly. And I just wanted to say that I I'm so sorry for everything you've been through. And as you know that I get it, we get it. Mm-hmm and I'm just so glad you're on this path, and this is helping you, that it's working, which is so amazing.
And the, the lie that that's core belief that you have, that you're just not worth it. You're not enough. Um, I just wanna say to. That it is such a lie and you are worth and you are enough and for whatever it's worth, um, you're worth it for me and my team to do all the work that we do to, to help people like you.
And so just please receive that and just know that you are worth it. You are worth it. And if we need to remind you every day, we'll do it. Okay. I may need you to do that every now and then for sure that we will, it means a lot, even though my brain says something else. Maybe it'll be 30 years before I believe it, but Hey, one day into 30 years, I'm good.
You know, we can do it. Absolutely. And I have a suspicion that it's not gonna take that long. So I, I, uh, man, I love talking with you, Holly. Thank you so much. And was there anything else you wanted to say before we close out the show? I, I don't think so. I just wanna encourage anybody to, I mean, I give your stuff out to everybody that I know that is thinking even of divorce or just, we need to somehow figure out how to talk about this and open up the communication on this.
You know, I even printed out her article and I carry it with me and I can show it to my husband and say, look, this is how I feel. This is what I went through. So I think it's just important that we continue to somehow, especially for those of us who are terrible at open communication, that it's okay to talk about it.
and if we could hand that article, I, I swear to every couple thinking of divorce, maybe they would think twice about it and just never give up looking. I mean, who knows? You could be 50 years old and, and find your savior like I have found in you and your podcasts. Hmm. So thank you. I can't tell you all.
Thank you enough, because you've all the work you guys are doing. If nothing else, you have saved at least one person and that's me. So thank you.
Ma'am what an interview. If you wanna reach out to Holly, if you wanna speak with her, you can contact her through email or through social. Uh, her email is DZ, N Y land fan Gmail. So Disneyland fan gmail.com. This is all in the show notes, by the way. So you can look there to, uh, to get her email, uh, on Facebook.
You can just search Holly. Ly or just click on the link in the show notes. And then on Instagram, her handle is at DSNY land, L a N D fan. So again, Disneyland fan. And she'd love to hear from you. She said, she'd love to just talk with you, be here for you. Listen, uh, if you need it. So feel free to reach out to her a couple quick takeaways for you to think about one.
We really deserve to know why our parents got divorce. Eventually, you know, maybe if you're really young, your mom or your dad might keep that from you, but eventually we deserve to know what happened and why they got divorced. And so my question to you is this, do you know why your parents got divorced?
Do you know why they separated? And if not, what would it take for you to have a healthy conversation with them about it? Again, you deserve to know, and, and if you're not ready for that, if it would be, you know, really painful or unhealthy, or just too intense for where you're at in life, I don't recommend doing it.
Um, but if you're in a good spot and you feel like this would be a good thing for you to know, and it would help you heal and move on in life, which honestly, I think it would, then you deserve that. And so bring it up and how to do that. A few things. One, I would, you know, obviously sit mom or dad down, whoever you're closer to, and you have a better relationship with start with that person and just preface the conversation by saying.
I have something difficult. I wanna talk to you about kind of just sets the tone, right. Instead of just maybe launching into the question of like, why did you and dad get divorced? You can say that if you want, depending on your relationship, but it's usually good to preface it and say, Hey mom, Hey dad, uh, I have a really difficult question.
I want to talk with you about I'm a little. Uncomfortable bringing it up, but I wanna have a conversation with you about it because it's really important to me. So make sure you preface it and that will help make you a little bit more comfortable and your parent more comfortable and then start with leading with your intention too.
So after you preface it, you can say something like. I really just wanna know why did you and dad get divorced? Why did this not work out? And I, I, I'm not asking this to make you feel bad, I'm just asking it so I can understand. And, and I can find some closure here. I can, you know, maybe move on, move past some of the struggles that I've deal with.
So just tell them why you're asking and make sure it's more about you than them. And it's something that you just wanna really understand for your own sake to help you heal and grow and, and move on in your life. And then when they tell you, just listen, just listen to reflect, you know, don't think you need to go in and have like an argument or response, everything they say, just receive it, just say, okay, thank you for sharing that with me really interesting or whatever response you wanna say.
Just try not to be judgmental in that moment. Just listen and hear them out for what they have to say. And you might get an opportunity to share. Some things you wanna say too. And if you want to share those things, you don't have to, though this might be a good conversation for you not really to speak and just to listen and just to receive what they're saying.
And, uh, you know, at a later point, if you wanna bring up a conversation where you tell them, or, you know, one or both parents about what you've been through, you can do that, but maybe that'll be best, kept for different conversation though. Feel free to do it in this conversation if you want. And then the last point I would say is make sure to just thank them for sharing it with.
Assuming it all goes well. Right? Assuming that they're open about it, assuming that they tell you the truth, you know, hopefully that they will be more forthcoming. Um, just thank them, you know, cuz it's not easy for our parents either. It's not easy for them to talk about it. Maybe they made some mistakes.
Maybe they made some decisions that ended up bringing this all about. Um, but you can just thank them for their time. You can thank them for, for sharing with you. So again, preface it with saying, you know, Hey, this is an uncomfortable conversation for me. It might be for you too lead with your intention saying, Hey, here's why I wanna know this.
This really is for me. And then just listen to reflect on what they're saying. Don't try to refute it. Don't try to debate them or, you know, make it all about the way they screwed up. Just, just listen to reflect and try to understand where they're coming from and then thank them for, for sharing. And hopefully this will maybe open a door for you to talk with them more about this problem, about these issues that you've dealt with because of the breakdown.
Of your family. And honestly, there's research that shows that this is so healing, like the stronger your relationship with mom or dad are both ideally the less, um, anxious you'll feel the less depressed you'll feel you'll you'll deal with loneliness left. You'll, you'll feel less lonely, all these good things that can come about.
If you build up that relationship. Mom or dad both. And I've had the opportunity to talk with my parents at different points. And it has been very, very helpful. It's helped me understand them more. It's helped me get answers to certain things. And honestly just, I guess, have more of a compassionate, merciful heart towards them.
Cuz in a lot of ways, I, I have felt very hurt by them and they know that. And so it's been really good though to, to talk to them about them kind of just instead of this being this big silent wound that no one talks about it, it has really been something now that we're able to at least discuss on certain occasions.
And I hope that we'll have even more conversations like that in the future. So I want the same thing for you as well. The other takeaway, I'm sorry, this isn't as quick cuz I thought it would be the other takeaway Holly gave her kids what she never had and you can do that. Just so beautiful. So inspiring what Holly did.
You can do that as well. And so the question is this, what do you wanna give your children or your future children? That you never had because of your parents' divorce because of their broken marriage. And maybe more importantly, what's preventing you from doing that. What's holding you back. Think about that.
Cuz those barriers that are standing in your way, those are the things you need to focus on. Those are the things you need to work through because if you want that really beautiful life, that that you've dreamed about, that that really is deep in your heart. That that's a desire there. You really need to focus on those obstacles that are preventing you from having that.
And so again, what do you wanna give your children or your future children that you never had because of your parents broken marriage and more importantly, you know, what's holding you back, give that some thought and then make a plan to overcome it. If we can help you in any way, we of course are here to do.
Before closing out the show. I just wanted to say, we'd love to hear about how restored has helped you now. For one, it really gives us insight into what is most valuable for you guys. You know, if you say this episode or that piece of content has been really helpful, it helps us know. To keep doing more of that.
And it also helps us to set strategy for the future. Maybe trying some new things based on your feedback, based on what's helped you, what hasn't helped you. And it really shows other people the effectiveness of our work, which can convince people to, to use our content, to use the tools and to engage with us.
And so if you wanna share your testimony of how restored has helped you just go to restored ministry.com again, restored ministry ES singular slash testimony. Again, restored ministry.com/testimony could also just click on the link in the show notes. And then you're just gonna answer some quick questions about how restored has helped you.
And this could be totally anonymous. It's your choice. You don't have to put your name on it. We just love to hear from you. And so if you wanna please share how ReSTOR has helped you today ever ReSTOR ministry.com/testimony. And finally keep an eye out for more info about the book that we're publishing the next episodes, uh, on social as well.
And on our email list, we'll be sending out more info, special offers, a bunch of bonuses, really cool stuff that we've been working on for you guys. Super excited. So stay tuned for that. Resources mentioned are in the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 50. Thank you so much for listening. Always remember you are not alone.
We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.
