#051: Music: A Powerful Tool to Help You Cope & Heal | Jenny & Tyler
Music has always been a tool to cope with the pain and problems from my parents’ divorce. Two artists whose music helped me a lot are Jenny and Tyler, a married musical duo. Their music and marriage have especially convinced me that love can last.
In this episode, they share:
Lessons they’ve learned after years in marriage that would’ve been helpful to know before they got married.
Encouragement to anyone from a broken home who’s afraid of love and marriage.
Advice to anyone who’s afraid of taking risks - as artists, they know a thing or two about taking risks
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
One thing that has always helped me deal with the pain and the problems from my parents' divorce is music playing it. I played piano for a bit growing up, but especially listening to it. There's just something about music that was so helpful. And it really became for me a healthy way of coping instead of a lot of the unhealthy ways that I was.
Tempted to, and two artists that really inspired me and his music just helped me a ton. Join me on the show today. They're a beautiful, married couple that really sing about love and especially the messiness of life. And one of the things about their music and especially their beautiful marriage have done for me is they've convinced me that love can last.
And I'm so excited for you to meet them. And in the show, some of the things you're gonna hear, what you're gonna get out of it. You're gonna hear us discuss lessons that they've learned after years in marriage. That really would've been helpful for them to know before they got married. They also share some advice.
Anyone who comes from a broken home is maybe terrified, afraid of love and marriage. We talk about why music helps us deal with the pain and messiness of life, and also how music can bring so much beauty, so much joy into the grayness and dullness of our lives. And then they offer some advice to anyone who's afraid of taking risks.
As artists they've had to take a lot of risks, they know a thing or two about. And so they share some of their wisdom that they've gained along the. But honestly, most of all, I'm just excited for you to hear from this beautiful, married couple who prove that love can last and can be beautiful even years into marriage.
So keep listening.
Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you heal and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce, separation or broken marriage. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 51. We have a big announcement for you guys. We've written a book now I'm teasing it.
Now there's gonna be more info on it later, how you can buy it all sorts of things. But just to let you know, this is a practical guide. This book is a practical guide to help you successfully navigate the pain and problems from your parents' divorce or separation. It's written in a question and answer format with advice on how to handle the most common challenges that people like us face such.
I struggle with low self-esteem. How can I become more confident after my family broke apart, I felt abandoned, unwanted and adequate, and even rejected is something wrong with me. Self-harm is my way of coping. How do I stop? How can I cope in healthy ways instead of unhealthy ways? What's your advice for navigating the holidays and other life?
How do I avoid repeating the mistakes my parents made and build a healthy marriage. I feel broken. Like something is wrong with me. How can I heal and feel whole again? What can I do to heal my relationship with my parents? Why does God let bad things happen? Like my parents divorce, how can I discern my calling in life?
When I feel so anxious and uncertain and many. Questions that we answer over 30 questions and answers in this book. And some of the benefits you'll learn how to cope with your pain in healthy ways. Instead of unhealthy ways, you'll become a better, stronger, more virtuous person. If you put the advice in the book into action, you'll learn how to overcome emotional problems.
You'll be given tactics to build healthy relationships. You'll find evidence based strategies that help you. You'll learn how to navigate your relationship with your parents, and you'll learn how to improve your relationship and even heal your relationship with God. And this stuff is so practical. This isn't theory, it's down to earth.
It's common sense advice. That's based on research based on expert advice and the stories that we've heard from people like you, people who come from broken families. Again, it comes out in September more info to follow on this. The next podcast episode, but if you want to get in on the special offers that we're gonna be offering before the launch, go ahead and subscribe to our email list@restoredministry.com.
Again, restored ministry.com. Just scroll to the bottom of the page, put in your email, your name. I'm so excited to share this book with you. We've been working on it for months and the feedback we've gotten from people who've been given an advanced copy. Who've given us feedback on it have been so solid.
So we're really excited to share this book with you more in photo. My guests today are Jenny and Tyler. They met in 2004 at the university of Delaware, and it was there that they started writing songs together and even performing together as friends before long, they started dating. And two years after that, they recorded a record together in Nashville.
And that same year, Tyler asked Jenny to marry him today. They live in Nashville with their three daughters, Jenny and Tyler. Sold over 35,000 albums. They've seen over 20 million streams on apple music and Spotify and played over 1100 concert dates over the past decade of playing music together, their songs have been featured on ABC's pretty little liars, New York med MTV's teen mom, CBC's Heartland.
And YouTube's kid president aside from music, Jenny and Tyler are passionate about fighting human trafficking, which is the modern slavery. In fact, in nearly every show they raise. For the organization, international justice mission. And they say that being a part of something bigger than the two of them has strengthened their marriage.
Absolutely love this couple. They're so real. They're such a beautiful model for married love. I know you're gonna be inspired by them and I know you're gonna love their music if you check it out, but let's not wait any longer. Here's my conversation with Jenny and Tyler,
Jenny and Tyler. Thank you so much for coming on the. Thanks for having us. Yeah, man. Thank you. I've been a fan of yours for a while. Like I mentioned when I was back in college in Steubenville, um, my roommate went to your concert and he's like, you gotta listen to these guys. And so I did and I just, yeah, love your music.
You both are really an inspiring couple and that's something that's always, uh, really stuck with me. Just seeing the way that you love each other. And I'm sure you guys aren't perfect. I'm sure you have your flaw, but, um, you should see us fight now. No but yeah, but you guys, it's so inspiring, especially as someone who comes from a broken family who just didn't see marriage go well, uh, it's really inspiring to see a couple who can, you know, build a, a beautiful marriage and make love last.
And so that's why I was so excited to, to talk to you, cuz I think everyone in our audience is so hungry for that. We wanna. Bill loved it last. We wanna not repeat what we saw in our parents' marriage. And so I I'm psyched to, to talk with you guys. I wanted to start with your story. How did you meet? Tell us?
Well, we met at the university of Delaware back in 2004, so we're. Getting old, but it's okay. um, we, yeah, we met through a campus ministry, the Baptist student ministry on a bus that was taking students from campus to a local church. I sat behind Tyler and he was super friendly and turned around and started talking to me.
And I ended up getting involved in that Baptist student ministry, which he was already part of. So we started hanging out a ton. Pleading worship together, performing writing. And it just like, there was a friendship that, you know, turned into a dating relationship and the musical aspect of things, and it was kind of like a never look back sort of.
Sort of relationship my life. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I don't have anything to add. that's beautiful. No, no, I love it. And it's, it's cool that you guys were able to start that friendship first. I think, especially just in our dating culture today, it's not always possible. Especially if you're like a professional in the world, a lot of times, like the only time you might be exposed to, uh, someone is through maybe a dating app or, or going out on dates, maybe your friend groups aren't together.
So it's awesome. You guys had that at that point in your life? Yeah, I, we say now, like, I don't know how people. Do the dating thing anymore. I agree meeting in college was such a gift because I can't imagine having to do all the online stuff. And I know it works out for people, but I'm very grateful that I'm even just grateful that texting wasn't a thing.
When we started dating, like nobody was texting, we had to meet up or like talk to each other on the phone. And I'm grateful that that. That was what was going on when we, when we met each other. I hear you. I hear you. I, uh, I wanna fast forward a little bit. So you guys, how long have you been married at this point?
Um, it'll be 14 years in about two and a half or three weeks. Yeah. On the 30th of June. Yeah. Yep. End of the month. Congratulations. And that's just amazing. It's such a big, that's crazy. seriously. 15 years. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. So what, what lessons, uh, have you learned after that many years in marriage that maybe you wish you would've known earlier that would've been helpful?
Before you got married for me, it's seeking to understand the other person, uh, like really understand, figuring out where they're coming from. Like yeah. What is causing them to say this right now? Could it be X, Y, and Z that they've experienced? And just like, how is, how is that making them feel at this moment?
I struggle with empathy, man. And Jenny has always been better. With empathy than I have. Mm-hmm . And so that's something I'm, I'm learning, I'm wanting more of, yeah. To like the scripture actually talks about like trying to under like live in an understanding way. And I think for me, that's not just, it, it takes a lot of listening and not, uh, having anything.
Kind of in the back of my head as a response, like you're saying this right now. So this is my defense because I'm, I don't know if you do engram stuff, but I'm, I think I'm a seven wing eight. So I've got this like challenger wing that I, I wanna be defensive. I, I don't wanna li my natural response is I don't wanna listen.
I don't wanna understand where she's coming from and I wanna just defend how I am, right. Or how, how I think I'm right. And so, uh, really fighting against those tendencies in myself. Um, and then, and again, just seeking to understand Jenny's perspective. I wish I had implemented that, like from day one, I feel like I'm J it's, it's almost 14 years of marriage and, and I'm just learning that mm-hmm , which is so sad, but yeah, I feel like on top of that forgiveness, um, yeah, forgiveness is just.
It's a daily conversation. Uh, if it's, if it's not daily, it's almost daily. Oftentimes it's more than once per day. Uh, we're we're speaking with the language of, I screwed up in this way. I did this, like, I really did this. I chose to do wrong against you and will you please forgive me? Hmm. Um, and our kids do it and it's more than like, I don't even want to hear, I'm sorry.
Most of the time for my kids, I just want to. Will you forgive me and yeah, I, I mean, I'm sorry. It helps sometimes, but , but it's getting kind of right. Getting reconciled, um, has always been part of our relationship mm-hmm and I feel like, because we've had that, we that's why we're in the place we are today.
Yeah. We, we definitely, I there's the. I don't even know. Is it from the Bible that, do you not let the sun go down while you're angry? Or is that just something somebody told me that I was, I think it's it's, it's from it's from the Bible. I mean, I think that has always been like, we don't go to bed angry.
We really don't or if we do, I mean, I mean, we've been in bed and we've been angry, but we've like always been like. We don't go to sleeping. Yeah. We're at least like it's not resolved. Yeah. Like, or somewhat resolved. Like, will you please forgive me? I I'm sorry. Or, or it's like, we're in enough of a good place.
like, maybe it's not all over. Yeah. But like, we're not, you know, just, yeah. We're not feeling totally separated or something. I think that's a big thing. And the, the seeking to understand, I, I think that's so important. You have to. being married is just giving so much grace and asking for so much grace. And then when I think about something that I kind of wish I'd heard before we got married, I think we I've, we've found, especially since having kids, our, our oldest is about to be eight.
You really have to fight for time together and make that just like such a. Huge priority. Yeah. Like don't let that slip away. Cause in the early years of being married, it won't probably be as hard to be like, oh, we've got a date night or we do all this stuff together. But as it gets, as it gets, um, as you are married for longer and longer, there's a tendency to just well with kids or with life or whatever.
Well, okay. with kids, especially in our life. It's just so easy to focus on everything else and feel like roommates instead of being married. And I think that could probably happen even without kids just getting comfortable and not prioritizing like really growing the relationship. I think you can get a little complacent maybe.
Absolutely. And complacency just is the worst. It, yeah. Never leads to something good ever. I've I've never seen it lead to something good, but that, that advice is fantastic. And I heard a quote recently when it comes to like listening and understanding. So like you were talking about, and Jenny, like you touched on as well, listening is not waiting your turn to speak.
It's really? Yeah. Just it's really just listening to reflect, not to refute and yes, that's been something that I am still trying to learn. to be honest with you guys. Yeah. It's, it's hard. It's really hard. Cuz I think, you know, especially when you're talking about something that's difficult. It can be so easy to just get defensive and so easy to just throw up walls and, uh, want like you, like you guys said wanna be right.
Instead of wanting to kind of resolve it as a team and reach whatever, you know, solution that you're trying to, to get to. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, we happen to be right by our bookshelf. So I'm gonna read a quote from the world, according to Mr. Rogers. Nice. Uh, two quotes actually listening is a very active awareness of the coming together of at least two lives.
Listening. As far as I'm concerned is certainly a prerequisite. A prerequisite prerequisite. prerequisite. It's hard to say that word today. It is of, of love. One of the most essential ways of saying I love you is being a receptive listener. And then here's, uh, here's a kind of a paraphrase of that. Um, another quote by him by Fred Rogers listening is where love begins.
Listening to ourselves. Then to our neighbors. Wow. Profound. Mm-hmm I know, dude, Mr. Rogers, Mr. Rogers, see, do we even need to add anything to that? trusty. Let's just let's end the end, the podcast now and, uh, try to live that out. Yeah. Yeah. And for anyone who accused keeping track and maybe judging all of us, um, that was, uh, Ephesians 4 26 is where it says not to let the sun go down on your anger.
So just in case anyone's judging I'm like, was that in there? I think it's , it's good in there. Nice work Googling that maybe . Yeah. Yeah. I didn't have that memorized just in case anyone's judging me. Okay. Um, but no such good advice. And I, I was curious also, uh, what advice would you give to a young person who comes from a broken family?
Who's maybe afraid of love. They're afraid of intimacy. They're afraid of. Marriage cuz they just don't want it to end the way that they saw their parents' marriage and they, they may even doubt that love could last in the first place. So what advice would you give to them specifically? You wanna go, man?
Uh, I know what I wanna say. You, you do what you, since you really know right now, what I'd like to say to you or to whomever, uh, happens to be in that situation and have that background is. There are so many false definitions of love out there. And I feel like the first thing that I need to do is look at what true love is.
And for that, I go. To the scriptures. Uh, and this is an older, maybe an old school language type of version, not as old as, as some, but it still says it. Well, it says, uh, love is patient. Um, and that word patient means long suffering. It means that you are okay with being in pain for a long time. So that's how that is the first.
Adjective use of love that it is patient or long suffering. The second is that love is kind, and I feel like we could stop there, uh, kind of like we did with Mr. Rogers quotes. Like if, if you see a love and if you experience a love that suffers for a long time, so experiences a lot of pain and still gets through it and still continues to love.
And if that love is kind. So not harsh. I'll continue. When you see a love that does not envy or boast, like when you see a love that, um, I think we all struggle with envy to some extent. Definitely. Um, it's like when we compare ourselves, when we. When I compare my body with someone or my voice or my talents or my money or my possessions, like any, when I do that, it makes me a bitter person and it makes me a, uh, unhappy person.
So love doesn't envy. It doesn't, it doesn't boast. It's not prideful or arrogant. Like it's not conceited. It doesn't have this ego where it's like self consumed. Rather love is looking outward. Like it is, it is looking towards the good of others. And, and it there's this whole definition here. I, I don't even think I'm gonna go through the whole thing, but this, the definition is found in first Corinthians 13, four through kind of four through 13.
And it actually starts a little bit earlier in like context wise. It, it starts or even earlier than that, but, but, but again, patience and kindness. If love can just embody those two adjectives again, man, that is powerful. Love that. And that's love that is not disappointing. Mm-hmm um, and, and it's love that will not be, um, dissatisfying either.
It will actually be a love. Brings a fullness, um, a full kind of life. I think that we all. Long for, for life that is full. And that can last, I want my Marvel movies to last forever, but they only last two or three hours. Like I, you know, I want my, I want concerts to last forever. Yeah. I want, uh, to surf a wave that lasts forever.
I want meals to last forever. Like I love eating oh, me too. Like a good steak or something. It's yes, but I get full and I can't eat more and I get tired and I can't surf more and I have to get sleep, so I can't watch anymore Marvel movies. So like, but those longings are there. And, and the thing about love is that it actually satisfies those longings because.
The love this love that is being spoken of in this passage in first Corinthians 13, is this divine love this, uh, in the Greek agape love that. If that is your, your, your starting place, your definition, your template for real love. Then when you see something that is called love, that doesn't look like this.
You can call it out for what it is and you can say, okay, well, well, I haven't been hurt by love. I've been hurt by something that's called love. That is actually not love at all. Sound good. I'll end. I'll end with that, I guess. And I, I was just gonna add that if, and this, it sounds like very oversimplified or something, but if we didn't have the Lord in our lives, we would not be married anymore.
I mean, I just, I can think of too many things where it would just be like, if I hadn't experienced that kind of forgiveness and grace, I might not be willing to extend it. I don't, I could see things that would. Have totally been like, oh, this isn't worth it anymore. You know, this, this is too hard. Well, I, if I hadn't experienced the, the love of the Lord, I would probably wouldn't be alive right now.
I think. Or at least I might be in jail. um, and certainly we wouldn't be near no, but, but I also mean like if we had gotten. And we didn't have, like, if we both got married and we didn't know the Lord, right. I don't think we would be married. I don't think we'd be married anymore either. Yeah. I just, and that sounds like such a cliche, but I, I really do think it's true, but it's because we've experienced that love that I just talked about the forgiveness of God and his kindness to, to us who have.
Done so many wrongs to him over and over and over and been so faithless to him and cheated on him so many times, uh, with like fill in the blank and he. Is faithful to us, even when we're faithless, he keeps pursuing us and loving us and calling us to himself. And he does it in a kind way. He doesn't do it in a like yeah.
In like a hard kind of mean way. And I think because we've experienced that. It's it's way easier for us. Yeah, not that it's our natural, it's not our, like our default, our default is like, my default is to, to be mean to, to our kids and to be like, why are you doing this again? And blah, blah, blah. But when I think of how God has treated me, it, it softens me up a lot.
And it, um, it helps me to extend that forgiveness and that grace that, uh, Jenny was talking about. Beautiful. Yeah. And thanks for your vulnerability. I know it's most people aren't this open, but it's beautiful. And we can learn a lot from that. I think. And really what I hear you saying is that God's the perfect lover.
He's the perfect spouse. And so we need to model ourselves after him. Because he, he just never gives that. He keeps coming after us, even when we really don't deserve it. We, we don't deserve it. Yeah. He knows we need him and he keeps coming after us again and again and again. And I love what you said about really redefining.
What love is for you. Like you said, there's so many false ideas, especially in your industry, you know, for sure. I'm sure you guys see this a lot. Just all these false ideas of love and music and mm-hmm for me, it was, yeah. It's. Uh, refreshing to listen to you guys because you're actually hitting on the truth of, of what love is and that that's what the research shows.
It shows that if you want a good marriage, you have to purify your idea of love. You need a realistic concept of love. And if you could have that, then you can have a good marriage. But if you're, you know, expecting it to be a fairytale or to look like the notebook, it's not going to, you're gonna be disappointed and you're gonna wanna give up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. For. I, uh, also love what you said about love satisfying. I think there's a lot of people in our world and I've struggled with this personally, who walk around believing that my heart will never be satisfied. My heart will never be satisfied. And just hearing that authentic love can do that, especially God's love, but even, even within a marriage or between friends, all the different types of love, it can be satisfying.
Was there anything you wanted to add on that? About how like life giving love can be? Because I think a lot of people, they just see the destruction, they just see the dysfunction and they think. Yeah, this isn't worth it. Mm. Yeah, the word that just popped up in my mind was vulnerability in, in marriage and friendships in our relationship with our kids in even just in like business relationships and acquaintances.
And certainly with our, in our relationship with God, through Jesus, uh, if we are not vulnerable, then there's not a real relationship. I longed for my sister for years, I longed for her to, to just speak. What's true about like what she was going through when we would go out to coffee. And when we would just hang out, I, I was.
But I felt like the last time I had a real relationship with her and she, I mean, it was maybe middle school and then she just passed away last year because she was, she had an eating disorder and, and it was like, sort of like, I was lamenting that relationship for years and years and years. And then finally it was like, it was cut off and, and so it, so it's in a really like, even so love even between siblings.
I think if there's not vulnerability, vulnerability, and then going back to listening that, that there can't be that fullness. That you're want that, that I'm wanting. I think of my best friends. I think like my best friend from college, uh, Joey Gordon, and I think the reason why we're best friends is because I was very vulnerable with him about the deepest and darkest things in my life.
And he was vulnerable with me similarly, and we were able to walk with each other through those things. Mm-hmm . And I think, and that's why that relationship. I could, I could go months without talking to Joey, but we can pick up where we left off because we formed that bond of vulnerability early on. And we chose to, instead of past judgment on each other or say like, You're, you know, I don't, I don't really wanna hang out with you anymore if you've you've done that sort of thing.
We, we decided that, that there's grace there again, grace and forgiveness and, and love can cover that stuff. Like true love can cover over a multitude of. Those violations of, of goodness and, and purpose that, that we've done, that we, all of us have done. And, and it's sad. It's very satisfying. Love that. So good.
I'm so sorry about your sister. It's so hard. And, uh, I, yeah, I know the experience of like losing someone close to you and I think the. You know, going back and thinking, I wish we had this, I wish we had that. And the vulnerability being at the core of it makes so much sense. It, I agree. Like vulnerability has always made my relationships better and made me happier.
And I know Brene brown talks about vulnerability a ton, and she says, vulnerability is the antidote to shame. Hmm. Yeah. And so if, if you feel like, you know, you're just so broken and. Um, you know, that people would despise you. If you just open up to someone who is good, who will you can trust and who will listen to you without judging me?
Just like you said so well, tother, um, that is so freeing it's so freeing, especially after going through life, maybe hiding, um, your vices or hiding things that you're struggling with from your past or whatever it is. Mm-hmm, , it just, it is life giving. It is satisfying, even that in and of. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.
I wanna find this quote. Um, but we should keep talking while I have searched for it. yeah, no, totally fine. Yeah. I, I had a question for you guys about just coping with pain in life. So it's obvious, right? It's human nature that we cope with the pain and the problems in our lives and unhealthy ways. That seems to be the default.
And for me, uh, one healthy way of coping though on the flip side has been listening to music. And I, you know, I, I've played a little bit of music, nowhere near the musician level, but that's been helpful too. Now I can't say I totally understand why it's so helpful, but I'm just curious if you guys had any thoughts on that.
Why do you think that music helps us deal with the messiness of life and the pain and the problems that kind of inevitably come our way? I think a lot of it has to do with just knowing that you're not alone and that other people have experienced something. Very similar. That your story while it is unique to you, it's not, it's not something that's so new or out there, like something, no one could ever understand.
There's this song by drew Holcomb called here we go. And there's a line that says music. It makes you feel good. Makes you feel understood. Like you're not alone, not a rolling stone, not the only one on the road. And I think that really is it for me. It's. Wow. Someone else totally gets this and, and they're okay.
you know? Yeah. Um, yeah, it's like a way to be alone, but not be alone. So that I, yeah, for me, music has always been very healing and helpful, and it also helps me experience my emotions when, you know, you wanna dive into that place, but you like just need a little help maybe, you know? Yeah. And suddenly you're crying in the bathtub like, oh, this feels so good.
Yeah. Jenny, you made me think of, you made me think of, um, just how helpful it is. Like there's har a lot of Harvard research on this, like Dr. Susan, David. Wrote an awesome book called emotional agility. And in it, she talks about how important it is to put your emotions into words. And it's actually like a disability when people can't recognize and express their emotions, which leads to frustrations and, and anger in a lot of cases.
So it's like so healthy and good for you to just express, put your feelings into words. And it seems like music, like you said, it does exactly that. So it makes sense why it's a hopeful. Yeah. Yeah. Tell her anything to add to that. Yeah. I don't have anything to add. I do want to kind of paraphrase what I was saying, what I wanted to find that quote that I wanted to find it basically.
So going back to the, the point of vulnerability, the quote was, was way better than I think this is gonna be, but it was basically like the church is comprised of murderers. Rapists pedophiles. People who have done the worst of the worst stuff, and yet they have tasted the love of God and they have received the forgiveness of God by the blood of Christ because of, of Jesus' blood.
And now they are the people in the earth who are going out and sharing. This is who I was. I still struggle with this by the way, but this is who he is, and this is what he's doing in me. And, and that's life right there. There is, there is so much life in not hiding from these, these terrible things that, uh, that, and I'm not saying all of us are, are murderers and, and rapists and pedophiles.
But I'm saying that at a heart, when it comes down to the heart, all of us are no better than any of the worst people we think of, uh, in the world. We're, we're right there with them. Um, Jesus said, if you've gotten angry with somebody and said, you fool, you've, you've committed murder in your heart. He said, if you've lost it after a woman, you've committed adultery.
So we're right there with them and, and we're no better. And so I think that that, that's what the church needs to be is, is a bunch. Not self righteous people, but people who are, are deeply in touch with how screwed up they really are and how beautiful God's love really is that he forgives them through Jesus.
Yeah, that just to, just to add that little part about vulnerability, so good. So, so beautiful. And I couldn't agree more just like as a church we need to yeah. Get better at being real. Like I grew up in a more traditional church and. It was just, it was very much so about, like, I don't know your exterior, which, you know, there's a point to that.
Sure. But yeah, it's just, we, we have to get to the heart and, and when we don't, it's just so damaging because we're just walking around, going through the motions and nothing's actually transforming, which is what you're getting at here. It's like real transformation can happen. Like if you feel broken, If you're addicted to something, if you're doing all these bad things in your life, like God can come into that and he can transform it.
He's the only one who can do that. He can take some really bad, broken, messy, ugly, and make it into something good. Beautiful. It's yes. Incredible. Yeah. And, and to that point, like, My, my whole faith was, was based, was primarily based on desire, uh, when I was 15 and my, one of my best friends died and I was forced to, to look into death and to look into my life and realize that my life had no purpose.
I was trying to fit in and get with girls. And really objectify girls back then was kind of. The tendency of, of the, my high school guy, culture and abuse substances and treat people unfairly. And so this is what, what I was, was in. And I, I knew that there wasn't life there, but it wasn't until my buddy died.
And I really had to start thinking about man, what, what if I die tomorrow? Like, would my. Be worth anything. And the answer was no, the like it, and it that's really what hit me. And then Jesus comes and he says, I have come, uh, that they may have life and have it in abundance. And that is for there's something about that verse that really got me.
And it still, it still gets me like I desire life in abundance. I don't want to live sort of aimlessly and. and come to the end of my life and be like, well, that, that was a waste, you know? And, and so the Lord kind of brought me to himself through that desire and still brings me to himself through that desire.
And then I have to, I have to back up from that and I have to, to ask myself, okay, why do I actually believe this? mm-hmm, like, I, something about this seems true, but is there, is there more than just desire for. For for, is there good reason to believe? And, and I think that's where apologetics comes in.
That's where, uh, a lot of, a lot of study can come in. It just, but, but going back to desire, man, I, I think that we, all of us desire, love, like true love. I think we all desire to be known and to know God. Um, I think we all desire. Like I mentioned earlier things to last forever. Um, good things to last forever.
We don't want bad things to last forever. And so, so like, what is the root of that? If, if you don't know, if you're listening to this, you don't know Jesus. I would dive deep into that. What is the root? And I, I think the root is that God created us for himself, that we have this. This whole, I think Augustine put it like we have this emptiness, this space in our hearts that that cannot be filled.
We try to fill it with so much stuff, but it cannot be filled with anything except God himself. So we were made to know God and to be known by God, going back to vulnerability, to be totally exposed and naked before him. And, and for God to say, I accept. I love you because of what my son Jesus did when he died on the cross.
I, I accept you. And we just have to trust that we just have to trust in that Jesus's death was for us and his resurrection meant that he, he wasn't confined to the grave. And I need that every day. I'm I'm speaking this maybe more for, for myself, cause I need to be reminded. Uh, every day. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's great.
You appreciate yourself and we all get to listen. It's awesome. no, I, I do that a lot on this show. I'm like, yeah, I really need to, to hear this, like probably should follow some of this advice for no, it's it's so true. And one of the things that's really brought me to tears at different points in my life.
It's just like, After my parents separated, just shattered my world and I got into pornography and all sorts of just unhealthy things and sexual sins and other stuff. And, uh, I just felt so empty. And I knew even as a boy, like I was 11, 12 years old at the time, I knew that I wanted to be happy and this stuff wasn't making me happy.
And then I met these friends who, who were Christians. And I was like, wait a. These people are actually happy. Like they have what I want, like, wow, what . So, so then I started to live what egg did and life changed for, for the better. It was amazing. And so thinking back though, um, at different points in my life and like, if I would've kept on that path of doing what I was doing, like my God, like where would I have been?
And it just made me realize that we all have such a capacity for. And it's kind of, it's kind of a dark and scary thing to think about, isn't it it's like we all can become Hitler. We all can become, you know, whoever we do. And so it's, it's so like, like you're saying, if you would've continued on that path, if I would've continued on that path.
Oh my gosh. Where, where would we have been? It's scary. Terrifying to think. And I think it's good for anyone who's tempted to be like prideful or self righteous, like, think about that in your. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately it does take a lot of guys going to jail, uh, and being broken down by, by that system to get to that place where they're like, wow, this, this is like, I really can make those decisions.
I really am not any better than Hitler. And that's. That's a hard thing. Uh, I think for our culture to accept, but I've seen the evil in my heart and, uh, I was addicted to porn from an early age. And if I had not been by God delivered from that speaking of porn, I like, I, I don't know, man. I, I might be, I might not be alive.
I , I don't know where I'd be. Uh, I might be in jail, like I said before. And I think the key to that again, is desire because I got to a place where I was so tired and so dissatisfied, um, with porn that, that I, I wanted something real and something of substance and God be began to, uh, to show me that that was himself, but also in showing me that he gave me this hatred of porn, like.
Porn is objective. It's making an object of a human being. It is making, uh, a product of a person and it's, it's totally. It's like going to the grocery store and, and getting food, getting food that is terrible for me and buying it over and over and over again, it's killing me. It's killing part of my, like my emotional health and my soul and what my body certainly.
And, but, but I keep, I kept doing it because it felt like that was the only place that I knew I could get a rush. Um, and it, I, I think I relate to. Drug addicts in that. Um, but God gave me a hatred of it and I feel like that's one of the only ways that, that, or one of the only things that really keeps me from it.
It's not that I'm not tempted by it today, but I know I know what it did to me. And I hate it now so much that it, uh, it's lost. Its it's lost so much of its appeal. Absolutely. It's it's it's shine. It's just not shiny anymore. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's amazing how you can, yeah. Become so different and transform and.
The best way I've heard it put is that porn distorts your ability to love. Cuz like you said, it just teaches you to use another person. And if you want those beautiful things in life, you need to learn to love and it's not easy and yeah, there's so much we can say there, I wanna keep moving. And uh, my wife and I attended one of your virtual conferences or conferences, virtual concerts if you ever wanna do a conference then sweet.
You can as well. But uh, it was, it was amazing. And one of the things that hit me is that music is so life-giving. So it's kind of the other side of the coin that I, the question I asked this is just so life giving. And, uh, my advice to, to my audience here was that if your life feels dull, if it feels bland, add art into it, especially music, it can just bring so much beauty into the grayness of life.
Have you, how have you seen that play in your own life and in the lives of your fans? Man? I think for me, one of the most life giving things is going to a concert. Mm it's just the I'm always, I almost always leave inspired by the performer. Like I wanna write songs after I listen to this. Person's amazing songs and I feel known.
usually like when we go to a show, we have this experience together, or you might go with friends or something and you have this shared experience. I remember going, we saw Mumford and sons back when, like way before they were so huge that you couldn't get tickets. Like it was 2009 or something. Wow. And we saw them at this awesome venue in Nashville.
It's like 1500 people maybe. and I just remember, it felt like everyone, there was a family, like there were certain points of the night where, you know, everyone's cheering over a line and I'm crying and you know, we're standing together. And I just remember thinking, I feel like I'm part of something greater than myself, which is beautiful.
And I'm getting like how, what a privilege to experience something. So. So beautiful. I mean, amazing. Gorgeous. What a privilege and then to be with you. I, I think, yeah, those, those experiences always. Add to the add to the beauty, I guess. And it's, it's almost beyond words, isn't it? Jenny? It's like, mm-hmm, , it's hard to explain.
It's hard to put it into words. And so you actually experience it. Yeah. And me, I feel like music just does that and like Tyler's, um, dad is a, is a choir or was a choir director at like a high school, middle school for years, like 30 years or something. And then when everything went virtual, He's supposed to do choir virtually, right?
Well, that just doesn't work because it's, you're part of like anything that you do, like a sport or being in a choir, like part of what makes it so magical is that you're with another person, like singing in a choir is about singing together and creating something. And you can't experience that on your.
What do you have to say? Yeah. Music is inspirational. Live, live music, especially for me. I think I, I have a variety of, of sources that I can list, like books, sermons, conversations I've had with family with strangers friends, but there's something about live music, even like from a musical perspective. Wow.
I didn't know that core progression could kind of tug at my heart the way that that did like seeing something done really well and lyric like lyrics tied together in a way that I I've never thought. Yeah. It's it's just to revisit what Jenny already said. It's it's very inspir. Couldn't agree more with you guys.
Uh, this next one's kind of hard to explain, but, uh, people who come from broken homes, young people who come from broken families tend to value, uh, security, feeling safe more than maybe most people. And the, the basic reason for that, that we've learned is that our families felt so unsafe so insecure that we just wanna feel safe almost at any cost.
Now, the problem with that is that we might not take good. Risks, especially when it comes to relationships, careers, whatever. Now you guys, you've taken a lot of risks to get where you are today. Uh, it's not easy it's for anyone listening to us. No, it's not easy to become successful artists. And so I'm just curious, what has that journey been like for you guys?
And what advice would you give to someone who's maybe terrified of taking a risk that could lead to something good, but they're just, they would rather play it safe. Hmm. I kind of feel like. I don't know, some of it hasn't felt so risky. like, yeah, like to us, it hasn't felt as risky as maybe it, it seemed.
And I, I think part of that was like when we started making music and when we decided. We're gonna jump into this and make this our full-time gig. And if it doesn't work out, that's okay, but we're gonna give it a shot. We were young. We didn't have a lot of responsibilities and, um, we didn't have like career type jobs.
Like I was working at a gift shop entirely was working at Starbucks. So it didn't feel like we were giving something up. However, I also think that if we hadn't done. If we hadn't taken the risk, I think we would've always kind of wondered if like what it would've been like to give it a shot. Mm-hmm I, I feel like I can't speak to maybe collectively we can't speak to this idea of risk in terms of career.
Because again, I was working at Starbucks. Jenny was working at a gift store. I think our monthly expenses. We're like, if we could make more than $1,500 a month, we could cover everything. And so, so we, we approached touring like, all right, we just have to make 1500 bucks in one month and then we'll be good.
And so I think if we had to give up like a, a more stable job, uh, or, or, or maybe even just a job that we. We really loved. Cause not, I don't think we loved Starbucks and we like, I enjoyed Starbucks, but I didn't like, feel like it was my, my calling. Yeah. I was just thinking though, however, like you had a sales job lined up for after college that we said no to, because the thought was, if I take this full time job, we won't have time for music.
Absolutely. And so it was our way of saying, without saying. You know, music is, is this important to us? So yeah, someone who's, who would be afraid of taking the risk. I mean, that makes so much sense to me, the, the fear there, um, the trepidation, but yeah, I really think if we hadn't done it, we would wonder, and certainly things, you know, things being.
Not as stable for us or feeling a little crazier, trying like, you know, we have four kids now and music is really strange to do with that many kids, like at the level that we do it, which isn't. You say successful, but like success is so relative. It is relative. You're successful to me. Okay. For the difference again, we pay the bills.
Yes, yes we can. And that's about it, you know, like that's where we're at. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, we have more than enough, but I don't know. I think Tyler's like when Tyler mentioned that he's a seven he's, like, which is like the risk taker type of personality. Okay. Yep. He's just always been. Yeah, let's just do it.
Let's let's go for. And I was more of the, I don't know, this might not be a good idea. I mean, that's how pretty much all it's our whole life, all of our bases came that way. We're like, what do you think of one more? Sure. , we're kind of impulsive people. Like what do you think about moving like next month?
Sure. That's fine. Yeah. Whatever. What should we buy this sprinter van? Yeah, actually I already bought it.
Yeah. Tyler did buy a sprinter van without telling me, yeah. Oh, I know. Remember walking out this old, like really dumpy van and I'm looking at it and I was just. I can't believe you bought this. Yeah. I can't believe you bought this, but it, it was fine. Couldn't really undo it at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I think for me, it's just like having Tyler kind of driving the, the bus I'm I feel like I'm along for the ride.
And, um, I think I've just also seen that things, they always work out one way or another. I don't know if that's there was any sort of advice in there, you know, I, I think there's, I think there's more in there than you realize one don't buy a van without telling your wife one. Yes, definitely. That, and then also you guys were just, you were willing to fail and that's, I think what terrifies a lot of people it's like, you knew that one possibility to going down this road was that you wouldn't make it.
Yeah. And, and you were okay with that. And that's huge. Like even just accepting that fact, I think is so big. Another thing you said is. What if we don't do it, that's what a lot of people don't consider. They only think about, well, what if I do it? And I lose everything well, what if you don't and you live a life of regret and you go to your grave with the song still inside of you, like yeah.
Throw said. It is terrifying. It is yeah. To, to consider that. And so I think that can be motivating as well. And then another thing you said is just like taking the little steps. That's another lesson in what you, you just explained is like take the little steps in the right direction. You don't need to maybe take that huge leap right.
At first. I mean, sometimes in life you have to take those leaps, but I think if you take those steps, you're gonna be mitigating risk and avoiding maybe some potential huge failure, um, by just doing little bits at a. Yeah, that was awesome that you just said that was all from you guys. Perfect. Very well.
Uh, great summary. You could have just said that cliffs notes version. Love that. No, that, that's what I just learned from you guys. So thank you. Um, in, in closing out, how can people listen to your music, buy your music 10 year concerts? How can they do all that? Yeah, I mean, we're on all of the streaming things like Spotify.
Apple music and all of that stuff, right? Yeah. And then if you really wanna support us, uh, we we're on this thing called Patreon and, uh, for a dollar or, or whatever you wanna give us per month, um, we give you exclusive songs, new songs every month and, uh, exclusive content. Behind the scenes stuff. Um, so that if you, yeah, if you really wanna support us in like a very tangible way, that's, that's a good way to do it, but you could just go on Spotify and create a playlist, too.
Join our mailing list. You can get a free record, a free exclusive record. If you go to Jenny and tyler.com/free we're on Instagram and Facebook. We're not great with the social media. I think we're just like, Too old to keep up with all of the new things that people do. I'm like, what is that? We, we prioritize Instagram and, and Facebook and, and then Twitter's kind of the third one, but Snapchat.
And I'm like, I don't know what that is. I dunno how to use this. Yeah. But, and then we are starting to book. We're hoping to get back into playing some shows and then we just have online stuff that we do too about once a month. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's just, uh, like the tickets to, if you want to come to this show in Maine, in September it's and these online shows, they're just pay what you can.
So again, just like. A dollar or more. We don't want there to be a hindrance from money. We, if you wanna come, we want there to be some kind of transaction so that you care about it a little bit. Uh, cuz we found that free events, people just don't care very much about, but when people give even just a dollar or $5, they seem to care about it.
And, and so that's, that's why we do the pay. What you can thing. Love it. And your website is Jenny and Tyler dot. Yes. Awesome. And you guys, you can find everything that they just mentioned there, and we'll make sure to link in the show notes to, uh, their music, to their Patreon account. If you wanna support them even a little bit goes a long way, guys.
Thank you so much for your music. It's so inspiring. It's so beautiful. Thank you for the example that you've, um, given in, in your marriage. It's more inspiring than maybe you'll ever know. So I really appreciate everything you've done. And for, for being here and spending time with me today. Thank you so much.
This was awesome. Such a pleasure, Joey. Thank you, man.
You can listen to Jenny and Tyler's music, wherever you listen to music or on YouTube even. And if you wanna support them, like they mentioned, you can do that on Patreon for even a dollar or a few dollars a month. And you can just go to patreon.com/jenny. And Tyler patreon.com/jenny and Tyler. And I know it goes a long way for artists.
Who've had so many concerts canceled because of COVID. So if you can help them out, go ahead and do that. And I especially recommend listening to their song. As long as our hearts are beating. As long as our hearts are beating, it's such a beautiful song about love and about marriage. And I won't sing it for you, but here are some of the lyrics.
Tyler sings this part, he says my bride, my bride, I can hardly hold myself. Together this day, this night, I see you as you are, and I never wanna leave. So beautiful again, that that song is as long as our hearts are beating, definitely recommend listening to that. And all those links are in the show notes.
A question for you guys to kind of wrestle with, think about who in your life has helped to convince you that love and marriage can last. Maybe, no one, maybe you haven't had anyone do that, but maybe you have, my advice is either find someone who has a beautiful marriage that you wanna emulate. You wanna repeat, or if you know someone like that build a better relationship with them.
It's so helpful in overcoming your fears about love and marriage to see a real. Living example of how good love and marriage can be. And this has been so helpful for me. So many people that we've worked with at restored have said the same, uh, in the future, we wanna even come out with some sort of a program to help you find a couple like that.
If you don't know them more on that in the future, but this is so helpful. So go ahead, find that couple or reengage with a couple that you know, who just has a really beautiful marriage that inspires you and can teach you how to build love. That lasts again, stay tuned for more info on how to get our new book for special offers, you can join our email list@restoredministry.com.
Again, restored ministry.com. Ministry is just singular. You can follow us on social, especially on Instagram at restored help. Again at restored help is our handle and just keep listening to this podcast. We'll be. Giving you more info on how you can get the book. The resources mentioned are in the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 51.
Thank you so much for listening. If you know someone who's struggling from their parents' divorce separation, share this podcast with them. We're really confident that it can help them too. Always. Remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.
