#042: What is Broken Can Be Repaired | Shenandoah Lawson
As people from broken homes, we fear repeating the dysfunction we experienced in our families. But sometimes, we end up going down that path. Our guest today dealt with that in a very real way.
Years after her parents divorced, she found herself in the exact place she never wanted to be: Going through her own divorce, feeling so broken and empty. But thankfully, her story and her marriage’s story doesn’t end there. In this episode, you’ll hear how her marriage was rescued and more:
What was happening in her head and heart as her marriage fell apart
How she wrestled with depression, suicidal thoughts, and a bad relationship with her father
How she felt like she was inadequate and didn’t deserve love
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Article: My Parents Divorce Made It Hard for Me to Believe in Lasting Love
Shenandoah Lawson
Email: shenlawson@gmail.com
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
For people like us from broken homes. One of the biggest fears that we have is repeating the dysfunction that we experience in our own families, repeating the mistakes that we saw, especially in our parents' marriage. We just don't wanna go down that path. But the scary truth is sometimes we do.
Sometimes we end up repeating the same mistakes, the same patterns that we saw, even if we despise them, even if we hate them, even if we don't want to do that. My guests today dealt with that in a very real way. She came from a broken family. Her parents got divorced. And so naturally she never wanted to repeat that.
She never wanted the brokenness and the dysfunction to continue in her own life and in her own marriage. But years later, she found herself in the exact place. She never wanted to be going through her own divorce feeling, just so broken and really on the brink of. Now, thankfully her story and her husband's story, doesn't end there.
There's a really beautiful ending that you'll hear in the episode, but we don't just skip to that. We touch on the messy parts in between. And so what you're gonna hear in this episode is my guess she takes us inside her head and into her heart. As her marriage just fell apart, especially how hopeless she felt and what she did as a response to that.
She opens up about how she blamed herself for her parents' divorce and even dealt with depression and suicidal thoughts. She shares about her struggles and her relationship with her dad and how her family pretended that everything was okay when it really wasn't. We touch on the, the numerous ways that she struggled in her relationships because of the breakdown of her parents' marriage and family, how she felt like nobody would ever love her because she felt inadequate.
Like she didn't deserve love. She even said that she never wanted to really let anyone have power over her, whether that was a boyfriend or just a friend, she never wanted anyone to have power over her. And that came out in her actions. And she also just gives advice and encouragement to anyone out there who comes from a broken home.
And this interview is just so moving. It's so personal and it's really living proof. My guess she is living proof that it's possible to repair something that is very broken, so many great lessons, so many great stories in this episode. So keep listening.
Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you heal and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce separation or broken marriage. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host joy Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 42 and today my guess is Shenandoah Lawson. She is a, a wife, a mother, and a film producer.
She was born and raised in Southern California, but she currently lives in Ireland with her husband and her daughter, her and her husband actually own a small remote production company and they enjoy collaborating and creating together. And like I mentioned, this interview is very personal. It's very raw.
Um, it's kind of heavy at parts and some of you might even think during the interview, are you allowed to talk about this stuff on a podcast? The answer is yes. If we don't, who will, the sad truth is that children of divorce have been huge. Neglected for far too long, they deserve a voice they deserve to be heard.
And that's what we're gonna do here at restore. And there's someone out there right now who really needs to hear this conversation. They feel alone. They feel abandoned. Heck maybe they're even on the brink of despair suicide. So yes, for the sake of that person and for the millions of people like them.
Yes, we can. And we have to talk about this stuff. If we don't who. My guess is a Catholic Christian. And so in this conversation, you're gonna hear us talk about God and about faith. And so if that's not your background, as I usually do, I just challenge you to listen with an open mind. You're still gonna benefit a lot from this conversation, even if you don't believe in God.
And I'm so happy you're here. We obviously don't just exist for religious people. We exist for everyone, for people like you. And so really happy you're here. And I, I know you're gonna get a lot of this episode, so go into it with an open mind.
SHEO welcome to the show. Hi Joey. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to have you. My wife and I were talking about you yesterday. Actually we were saying that you have a beautiful name Shenandoah. Oh, it's it's awesome. Where did it come from? I'm just curious. Thanks. Yeah, it's actually, um, a river and valley in Virginia.
So there's actually the Shenandoah national park over there in Virginia. Yeah. And so, um, I. You know, funny enough when I, for work reasons, I lived in Virginia, I, you know, was right there right next to my river, basically the Shenandoah. Nice. Yeah. So, and it's that native American name? My there's several translations, but my favorite translation, that means daughter of the stars.
Mmm. Wow. Beautiful. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a very unique name and, and a beautiful name, like I said, so yeah. Such a pleasure to have you on the show, you were 12 years old when your parents divorced. Yes. Mm-hmm. if you would take us there, like what happened? How did you react to it? Sure. Yeah. So unfortunately, like my parents were those two people that should have never gotten married to begin with.
They only got married because my mom was pregnant with my older sister Sequoia, another unique name. so I love it. Um, yeah, so, you know, it was Rocky from the start. My father was very manipulative because my mom was at the time, not there legally. Um, he kind of threatened her into dating and then marrying him and all.
Kind of saying that he would take us away if they, if they, uh, divorced. And my dad had this very twisted idea of faith cuz you know, um, his parents, I guess you could say they were being Hispanic, they were culturally Catholic cultural Catholics, but they weren't practicing mm-hmm so he had kind of a twisted idea of faith and um, what he thought was right or wrong and you know, what he could go to hell for.
And so he kind of brought a lot of that, um, fear into the relationship and basically told my mom like, yeah, we have to get married, cuz if not, we're gonna go to hell . And so she did, she, she married him and things were always Rocky. Like they, they always were fighting when I was growing up and unfortunately.
Like, I guess they thought adopting would make things better, but it didn't, we, uh, they adopted three, my three younger siblings, uh, one of which has passed, uh, last year, unfortunately that was Tony in a motorcycle accident. Yeah. Thank you. Um, but yeah, so they ended up adopting and then things actually just, they got worse from there.
There was, um, abuse, you know, verbal and physical abuse that happened and things were just very bad. And I remember them sitting us down and telling us, like, we, we thought we were gonna get the op kids were, were getting a divorce talk and instead it was like, okay, um, well we're not getting divorced, but.
Dad is going to live in an apartment and you're still gonna see him almost every day, but, you know, we were gonna live with our mom and then our dad was gonna come over and, you know, see us and homeschool us because we were homeschooled. And, um, and so we're like, okay, that's kind of weird, but we were kind of relieved.
Like it wasn't like, okay, they're not completely divorced, but we're actually gonna get some peace mm-hmm and yeah, but then there was, I, I basically found out that my mom was starting to see someone else and I didn't know what to do, like as a Catholic kid. And we were kind of, we grew up volunteering at, uh, senators medical center at the time.
It was a hospital then medical center, basically with the CARite sisters. And, you know, so we actually grew up with a lot of. Instruction and knowledge about the faith, I would say. And so I knew as a kid, like, okay, my mom's seen someone else. My parents are still married. That's not wrong. I mean, that's not right.
So I, I went to my older sister and I'm like, look, I know this is what's happening. What do we do? Like, what do I do? How do I react? And she was just like, oh, well, like we have to tell dad. I was like, really do we have to? Okay. And that kind of set a chain of. To where basically then my parents were getting, uh, a divorce and then fighting over custody.
And that in itself was just a horrible experience, you know, having to go into a counselor and we had our dad telling us all the things that we couldn't tell her, because he was like, if you tell them that, then you're never gonna see each other again, they're gonna take you guys away from us. You're never gonna see your parents, you know, us, your parents again.
So it was just like, wow. Lies, lies, lies, and kind of a bit more about the lies was we were part of a church, uh, at the time, which a lot of my friends that I, you know, that I have or people I, I have met up and spoken with afterwards, they're like, oh yeah, I was, I went there. We went there for a short time.
It was basically this. I wanna call it a dysfunctional parish because there was just like a lot of hypocrisy there, which is sad because like, that's the thing I've seen is a lot of times the most hypocritical people are the ones who claim to be Christian and God fearing people. Mm-hmm . Um, and so we had friends from this church and.
You know, they would come over to our house. We had some really good family friends. And when my parents started, you know, separating at first, there was even lies around that. Like, don't tell them that we're separating and my dad would even keep like his shoes next to the bed for like, if they had to go through the room to, you know, go to the restroom.
And I was like that, that's how big the lie was. Like, we're even pretending at that point that my dad was still there. You know, mm-hmm and so. That was the biggest thing was just like being told and like to lie in this way or that way. And always having to like, be thinking about the lies because you had to get it right.
You couldn't let something slip to your friends, even, you know? So that was just like a horrible mind. yeah. A mind game, you know, as, as a kid growing up. And then when we, when my parents finally did, um, separate and my dad won the custody, then there was a continued physical abuse from my younger siblings.
And then it was just a lot of like, uh, verbal and mental abuse for my older sister and myself. So I ended up leaving my dad when I was 19. I went back to live with my mom and I kind of. Estranged myself from him. Um, I did try to make contact once and, you know, we started talking for a little, but then right away, it was just like toxic, um, all over again.
And so I was just like, I'm, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna put myself through that. And so, um, I never, I never spoke to him again. I just saw him at my brother's funeral. We didn't speak. And then, um, he actually passed away, uh, just a month ago. Hmm. Jen, I'm so sorry. Wow. Yeah. Thanks. You've said a lot. I mean, yeah, it's been, you know, it was hard cuz my brother was two, 2019 in November and he actually passed away just the week before I had to go into, uh, filming for the documentary I was telling you about.
So, you know, just had that right in front right before that big thing for myself. And so it was, that was difficult, but you know, I pulled through and uh, yeah then. Just kind of this whole thing with COVID I don't know. Can I say that word? yeah, it's just like that whole thing over here and just, uh, everything that surrounds it with not being able to go to church and then finding out like, you know, my, my birth father has passed away, which, um, I mean, I can't say that I felt anything, cuz I had just estranged myself for so long, but in a way it did bring peace, but then it also just brought a certain type of mourn for uh, knowing that I just wouldn't have, like my, my daughter would never meet my father, you know?
Like mm-hmm that, that was just a sad reality. Absolutely. And so it sounds like man, there's been so much happened recently in your life. That has probably brought up a lot of, um, the brokenness and a lot of, you know, past memories, but it sounds like things at home originally were just very dysfunctional to the point where something needed to change.
And, you know, I bet you and your siblings hope that there could be, you know, healing and like positive change there, but it sounds like that just didn't happen. So there was some sort of a relief by the fact that your parents separated and then later divorced, which makes sense. And I think a lot of people can relate with that.
And then maybe later on we realize, you know, we're able to see a little bit more clearly how dysfunctional things were at. And then able to kinda understand the impact, not only of the dysfunction, but also of the breaking apart of our parents' marriage. It's a lot to, to swallow. It's a lot to handle and then add in, you know, everything else that happens in life.
Like you, you know yeah. Have experienced in the past year. Yeah, exactly. And I guess the other thing just as a, a young adult, like, you know, I was going into my teens and then my young adults with, you know, my divorced parents. I mean, for a lot of kids that might seem more normal. Oh. But even just to be looked at as like, oh, that's the, the kid with whose parents are divorced, but being a Catholic kid with your parents' divorce was like, A whole different level as well.
Like there was a whole other level of feeling judged, especially by people at the church. Like in fact, people that we thought were friends stopped talking to us as a family. And so we, we ended up leaving that church just because, you know, we, we felt the, what felt like rejection and it was just because they didn't wanna get involved.
They didn't wanna feel like, oh, we're taking aside, you know, either my father or my mother. And so they just made their distance completely and we ended up yeah, just leaving because it was like an obvious kind of distancing that happened. And, um, a couple of the families that were at that parish, we were a part of ended up separating and divorcing also.
And it's just like here, all of our parents were having. You know, going on and none of them were talking about it to each other. I was just, I'm thinking back now. And it's like, imagine if, instead of trying to appear perfect and having it all together, if a little bit humility was had to open up to your Catholic friends, um, or just your friends in general and say, look, we're having these problems.
They could have turned around and been like, oh my gosh, we're having these problems too. And then talk about it. And then maybe things would've been resolved to where, you know, they all could have helped each other with their relationships to where they could have stayed together. So that, that's kind of the sad reality is that at least in that time and in that environment, Whether it was just at that parish or anywhere outside of there, you know, they didn't feel like they could open up and talk, which is why I think that, you know, this show is so great, like that you're actually allowing the conversation to happen.
Thank you. And, um, how these things yeah. Affect people and, uh, actually allow people to validate their emotions too, just because as kids, you know, you're, you don't, um, a lot of things happen, like you end up. Well, for instance, for me, I closed off from talking like opening up to either of my parents. Cuz you don't want to hurt one.
You don't wanna find, you don't want one parent to find out, oh like you told that to, you know, your mom, like why didn't you confide that to me? Absolutely. And have feelings hurt. So you just shut down and you know, that's just one thing that happens and that shut down, like the fact that you're shutting down.
It doesn't just affect, you know, your relationships with them. Like my relationships were then guarded ever since that point mm-hmm so, I mean, that was just, you know, one way that it, it affected me moving forward. Yeah, absolutely. It affected me in A's very similar way and I kind of always loved at arm's length.
One of my relationships, I I'm yeah. Convinced that it failed because I just was so distant. Like I just wouldn't be vulnerable. And that's what you, when you just said that about your parents and, and that small Catholic community, how they weren't vulnerable at all, they were just putting up this facade that everything was fine when everything really was not fine.
And what I've seen is that it's typically driven by shame. You know, this belief that there's something inherently wrong with us, that if people knew what was happening, they just wouldn't love us. They wouldn't accept us. And I've seen that left and right. Um, especially when it comes to brokenness within marriage and, you know, marriages that I knew.
And so, yeah, like you said, you know, vulnerability is the antidote to shame. And so if you're not being vulnerable, you're gonna still feel ashamed. You're gonna hide. You're gonna pretend like everything's fine when it's really not. And I have seen so much hypocrisy too, among Christians among Catholics.
Uh, who, again, pretend that everything's good. And then you realize there's been like multiple fears going on. There's been all these very messy and ugly things that could have been avoided if, you know, they asked for help. But, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I mean, also just feeling like a, like a bad Catholic, like I said, that the whole thing about feeling judged, like not only because we're a part of a family unit and so it's, it carries over, like, I think that's the other thing is, uh, parents think it's just between them, but it's like the whole family, the whole unit is judged and the children feel that, like, I felt that as a child, like totally, um, it was, you know, palatable just how you could kind of taste, uh, the judgment at times, you know?
And, and it carried on for me as well, even just being a Catholic, I always kind of felt like I was like a bad Catholic. Like I'm a different Catholic. I, I could never be as good as other Catholics just because this is like, this is where I come from. Totally. So it sounds like you carry around a lot of shame with you as well.
And man, that's so debilitating carrying that through the years. It was, and I'm no, I can relate with you on so many levels, especially just struggles in your relationship with your dad. I, there was a point where I just didn't agree with the way that my dad was behaving. And so I just told him, Hey, I'm not gonna be able to talk to you until I see some real change in your life.
And so it was like year, year and a half timeframe. So nowhere near as long as what you went through. But, um, yeah, it's, it's a difficult thing to have to do that. Like kids should never have to do that. We should never have to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Especially lie, you know, it's like, I think that was one of the worst things was ha um, being told, you know, this is what you're gonna say.
This is how we're gonna explain this. Like for instance, my, my dad had. Crap. Um, basically he pushed my brother's head into a plate and it busted his forehead open and we had to go around telling people that he had fallen off his scooter, you know, and that's what he got a gash on his forehead. And I mean, just like, yeah, things like that, you know, um, they, they affect a child like.
Telling, and that's why I always grew up like a hated line. And, and when I left my dad, like that was one of the biggest things it's like, I'm not gonna stand for, um, for lies and I'm, I'm not gonna lie. Like honesty is, is so important. And at least that's one thing that I've learned that I've carried into my relationship, my relationships now mm-hmm um, and I have to call some family members on it.
And when, when I catch them line, I'm like, no, no, I know you're lying. Like don't lie to me, you know? Yeah. Like I I'm okay. I'm okay with the truth. Like, it might not be what I wanna hear or what I completely, um, am in line with, but I would rather, you know, know you and talk to you with, with knowing that then have you go about lying to me?
Yeah. And eventually all that's gonna come to the surface anyway, in one way or another. And so mm-hmm, the painful truth. And now is better than, you know, just this whole mess of lies that comes out in the future. And yeah, there's this, uh, one guy that I look up to who it recently came out, that he was like having multiple affairs and things like that.
And it's just, it's, it's just so shocking and sad to, to see that, but that's where it all leads. It's eventually it's gonna come to the light and it's just so, so messy. Yeah, exactly. In the years that followed, how did you deal with all this? Like how did your parents' divorce affect you? How did the dysfunction, uh, affect you in the years that followed?
Right. Well, in the biggest way, I could definitely tell you it affected my relationships. Like I didn't date until I was about 22 and that was just circumstance. I was busy with like things that I pursued that I, that I loved and my parents' relationship really had an effect on me and how I viewed myself as being able to be loved.
and it didn't help that the first relationship I landed in, I didn't even wanna be in a relationship with this person, but he was basically saying, you know, you're never gonna find anyone who loves you as much as I do. And I was just like, gosh, maybe he's right. Maybe I won't ever find anyone who loves me, you know?
Um, may like maybe, yeah, maybe this is my last chance, you know? And so, yeah. Um, you know, I, I got into that relationship that was, um, yeah, that I didn't even wanna be a part of, but it was just that. That voice in my head of saying you don't deserve love. Like you're lucky to have it. And I think that also came from my dad often telling me, like, you, you cry too much.
You don't deserve to cry. Like you have it so good compared to other kids. And that carried over as well. It's like, I don't deserve this. I don't deserve that. Okay. Do I deserve to be happy? Maybe I don't. And so it carried into me getting into, you know, bad relat. And into not valuing myself enough and into, um, the false belief that, that I didn't deserve to have the things that I wanted most because I never had it.
You know, I, I wanted a family. I wanted that, that happy family that I saw, some of my friends having and funny enough, you know, yeah. Some of those families ended up falling apart too. Um, or sadly enough, I should say. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it also led into like self-fulfilling prophecies, like, because I thought that way, like for instance, when, um, I was into dance for a while and I loved it and I really wanted to do it.
And my dad told me, you know, you don't have the body of a dancer. And it just like crushed me. Cause I was just like, you know, in my family we had, you know, bad knees, like my, you know, they just weren't, I guess you could say, yeah, like they're on the heavy side, at least my dad's side of the family, they were on, you know, heavy side have diabetes.
And so I started getting into dance and I was getting healthier and I, I was, you know, I wasn't a fat kid at that time and I was, you know, I was pretty chubby as a little kid. Sure. Um, which kind of affected me in other ways. And I look back and I do realize that I also was, um, uh, eating for comfort and I was also depressed.
I was chronically depressed, you know, as a young kid and that's just, you know, a whole other thing with that. But, uh, when my dad told me that like, yeah, you don't have the body of a dancer. We ended up winning a dance competition. We took Chris place for our cap, um, for our. Each group. Wow. And then the next rehearsal after that, um, I was doing some across the floor exercises and my knee just gave out and it just, um, yeah, it blew out right there.
um, during rehearsal and I wasn't able to even, you know, I was walking on crutches for weeks and then I moved onto a cane and I was just like my dad's right. You know, I don't have a body for this and I just kind of gave it up at that point. But you know, then once I left, like I still love dancing. I haven't done it in like an actual dance troop since that time, but, you know, uh, I, I still love dancing and, and I still do, especially.
With, uh, you know, my family or whenever we, we have the opportunity. Yeah. Wow. So there, it sounds like so many of the things that you learned in your family, you just carried with you through your life. And I remember reading the blog article that you wrote for ReSTOR. And one of the things you said in there really stuck out to me that you kind of always felt inadequate.
You felt like you needed to earn love based on your relationship, especially with your dad. And that one really hit me because I think so many of us feel that way. I, when my parents, uh, separated and later divorce, that was one of the feelings that I had. I couldn't put my finger on it as an 11 year old boy, but I just felt like I just wasn't good enough.
And then my reasoning was if I was why weren't mom and dad like working through this stuff. Mm-hmm . And so you articulated that really well. Talk about that a little bit, if you would. I think that, you know, you see it's so hard as a kid, not to. Think about yourself and especially think about yourself in the, in the full capacity of, of the family, which is a healthy thing.
Like we should be seen ourselves as a whole, like I said, as a family unit, when it's not just one person, you know, everyone's affected when something happens. Um, so as a kid, you know, when you're, when my parents were divorcing, you know, the first thought goes to, well, is it my fault? Is it something I did?
And then kind of like you said, you were just like, well, I'm not worth it for you to work things out, to pull it together to, you know, want. Us to all be happy together. Like, I, I'm not good enough. Like if maybe if I was better, if, you know, if I cleaned my room more, maybe you would not fight as much, you know?
And, and it's not, but, but that's, that's where my mind, you know, would sometimes go as a kid is like, gosh, maybe am I, am I lazy? You know, like if I, if I did more around the house, like, would it make, you know, mom less stress? And maybe she wouldn't have fought with dad, you know? Or they wouldn't have gotten into it because of this or that.
And, and it really like, it, it, things go around would go around and around in my head as to why. Because of me, you know, is this happening? And yeah, I think that that's when I could finally realize that, especially growing up and, um, finding out these reasons of why my parents were, would always fight so much.
Like we didn't know, it was just like mom and dad are fighting again. And we wouldn't understand, like, I couldn't tell you any of the dialogue that would go back and forth between them. Like, it just didn't make sense to me. Mm-hmm, why they would fight all the time. And then when I, you know, was growing up, was older.
And then especially when I moved back with my mom and then I started understanding and was told like, oh, this this happened. Or, um, you know, this is the reason between them like that, that they were fighting so much, you know? And, and so things started clicking and making sense, but they're not gonna tell you their personal problems as an adult.
You know, they're not gonna explain all that or be open about it to a child. So, you know, if they had. Like we said before, kind of had that humility to kind of open up about their faults. Like, Hey, you know, I'm not a perfect person. and I've made mistakes and sometimes you hurt a person. You know, sometimes you hurt people, even people that you love and you can hurt them so badly.
Sometimes that even though they forgive, you know, they can't really move past it. And that's where me and your mom are at. You know, if they had said something like that, that could have made more sense to me as a kid. Mm-hmm , but you know, when they just fight and you try to understand, and they're just like, keep out of it.
It's none of your business. Then you have to assume like, well, maybe they don't tell me because it's me. And like you said about the, having to prove yourself, like. It really was that it's just like moving forward, not wanting the same future, not wanting the same relationship that my parents had. I was just like, I have to do everything I can so that I don't fall into that same, you know, mess.
Like mm-hmm, I have to, you know, basically try as hard as I can in a relationship to, to be loved so that I can be noticed and valued. And, and, and I ended up giving too much, like too soon in relationships because of that. Sure. Um, and you know, it was just like, not even, um, Not even just emotionally, but just like even financially, I'd be like, well, I, I would have this thing go through my head where, where I would like, say pay for myself, even though it was like a date, I'd be like, well, no, I'm gonna pay this much because I don't wanna feel indebted to this person because, um, I, I don't want them to have power over me.
Like that was a thing that would go through my head. And that was just because you know, of my parents' relationship. And because I saw how both of them, um, seemed so trapped and I was just like, I don't wanna be trapped. So I'm gonna, you know, pay for myself with this. And I'll only let him pay for that.
And you know, that way, that way he can't have anything over me. And so, yeah, I mean, it really, I mean, the more I talk about it, I will definitely, you know, come up with more, um, reasons of how it affected me, but I mean, it, it's crazy. Just, uh, all the little things. Really stick to you when it comes to, to all of that.
And, and it came out in a bunch of little ways in return. Yeah. In the little ways. And that's, I think what a lot of people, especially who don't come from broken homes, maybe struggled to see it's like, if you just say, oh, there's just this little way that it affected me. Like one thing, even though it was like dozens of things, it might seem insignificant.
But when you put 'em all together, , it's, it's a lot, it's a lot to, and so, oh yeah. I'm tracking with you there. And one of the things you just said though, at the heart of it, it sounds like to me and you correct me, if I'm wrong here, a desire for control was kind of at the center of all of that, that you wanted to make this work.
You wanted to have the opposite of what your parents had. And so you were gonna do everything in your power. You were gonna control every factor that you could to make that a reality. Oh yeah. And that, that is exhausting. Isn't it? Oh, it is so exhausting. And, you know, like for instance, that first relationship, like he used to make fun of me all the time, um, about different things, because I would wanna have all the hard conversations up front and early, and he'd be like, why are you talking about that?
Like, who cares? How many kids we wanna have or are, are gonna have. And I'd be like, sure, well, it's an important conversation. Like we should be having that now. Sure. Um, if you're, if you're saying that you love me, like then there's only one way that that should end, which I would hope is in marriage. Um, unless you're just stringing me along.
And so, you know, I would bring up, you know, those harder conversations and yeah, I would basically get, get laughed at, I would get laughed at saying that I wanted to save myself for marriage. I would get laughed at for wanting to pray before meals. And again, it's just like, how did I get into that first relationship?
And it was just because I felt like maybe nobody else would love me. Yeah. And I think that's such a fear for so many of us, like there's hundreds and eventually thousands of people listening to this. And I know that those of us who come from broken homes, we feel that fear. And what happens, what they've found in the research, especially is that we are more likely to settle in relationships for people that we believe just won't leave.
That's like the only criteria that we go with and not, not that it's like someone who's ultra faithful that they won't leave, but just like, they're kind of just won't leave that's it? Yeah. Like, like maybe because there's no better prospect for them, they don't have ambition or something like that.
That's what some of the research has found. So it's just fascinating to me that we tend to settle because we're afraid that, like you said, no one else is gonna love. Another thing when it came to relationships is, you know, I had that first bad relationship. And then I actually, after I finally ended that relationship, I mean, overall, it was only seven months, so maybe that's not too long, but it was long enough for as bad as it was.
Sure. I actually got into a very beautiful relationship, you know, uh, it was kind of like long distance courting and everything, and that person ended our relationship. He said, you know, you're perfect. You're, you're beautiful. Um, you're all these things. I just, I lost my piece, you know, that's basically all that he could say.
And that just. Confused me to no end. I was like, okay. So I'm not good enough for the people who are bad for me, and I'm not good enough for, you know, I'm perfect, but you know, I'm perfect. But like where, where does this end? Like, is it always gonna be the case that even if a person values me and, you know, cares about me, that they are still going to leave me.
So am I ever going to find someone who is going to stay? And so that just kind of, um, set me down a whole other path of hurt and feeling inadequate. And I, I know he didn't mean to do that, but it was just, that's just where my mind took it, you know? And, and I just went down to thinking, okay, so basically my heart's never gonna be safe.
yeah, man. And we'd end up putting walls around our hearts and sounds like the message that you got from that relationship was you're too much. And you're not enough. It's like you're both and yeah. And not just that relationship, but all, both of your relationships. So, man, there's so much we could say there.
Um, you mentioned a little bit how you dealt with chronic depression and one of the things you did to cope with that was emotional eating. What were some other ways that you coped with the pain in the problems in your life and, and in unhealthy ways? Yeah, so I had, I developed, I guess, uh, an addictive personality because of just whatever the trauma I went through, you could say, and some of the things started off.
Okay. And some of the things just weren't ever okay. Um, at different points, uh, I've gone to alcoholism mm-hmm and that's just because of hurt and it also runs in the family, but same, sorry, I'm just getting a little emotional now. no, no together. No, you're totally fine. It is. It's an emotional topic. And a lot of times we.
Just kinda go through life with all this baggage, like all this brokenness that we carry with us, and then we don't really think about it. We don't really talk about it. And then we finally sit down and think about it and talk about it. And it does, it brings up some very strong emotions. And so no, you're, you're fine.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. We all feel that. So thank you for being vulnerable in that way. Yeah, no. Sure. So obviously, you know, I mean, luckily I could also kind of cut things cold Turkey. Like when I was in college, I was like addicted to diet Coke. And then it was just to the point where like, I just, um, I would have, I don't know how many cans a day and then it was really hurting my stomach and I was just like, you know what, I've gotta cut this.
And I did. And then, um, I got addicted to sports, uh, sport, um, Brazilian jujitsu, and I actually ended up then losing a lot of, uh, weight that I had. Gained from, uh, being addicted to food. And so, um, that was making me feel really good, but then I was just overdoing the training. I was training six days a week.
Um, and then I was wow. On some days training as many as three times a day. And so I was just kind of putting my body through so much, you know, I was starting to break down in, in different ways. And so, you know, it's, that's when a good thing can become a bad thing, , you know sure. Like too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
And I progressed very quickly with that just because I was doing it so frequently and so hardcore, but then, you know, the, the alcoholism was something that just kind of, um, every hard point or loss or, you know, ending of a relationship would kind of bring in this. This defect, uh, in, in me. And luckily I, I could always get out of it.
You know, when I had some, I would have to really focus myself, like, okay, this isn't helping me achieve my greater goal. What do I really want in life? And, you know, prayer was always like the biggest thing that would get me through, especially when I reached about 25. I just really kind of started playing the rosary every day and that was life changing.
And that actually helped me get out of my, you know, alcoholism, streaks. Beautiful. Wow. Incredible. And so you were basically in those things, you were looking for comfort, you were looking for an escape from the pain and the problems in your life. Whenever that message they would surface and approval approval mm-hmm
Yeah. And, and it was because I was just getting, you know, told how good I was getting like at, at different things, you know, when it, when I was dancing or when I got into acting or when it was jujitsu, like I would progress in, in these things because I would just, I always put. Everything into, into something.
And unfortunately, you know, when I do good, I do really good when I do bad. I do really bad. yeah, no, in between it's a, yeah. Not a lot of in between. Yeah. Wow. No, and, and that's, that's a great point about how too much of a good thing. Isn't good. It's bad. That's yeah. You know, even Brazil and jujitsu is like an awesome thing.
It's good to learn how to defend yourself. It's good exercise, like you said, but you took it a little too far. So man, so many lessons there on the flip side, what would you say were two or three things that really helped you cope in healthy ways and helped you heal? You already mentioned prayer. Uh, were there other things as well?
Yes. So, um, in an interesting twist, my husband and. We were actually married a couple years ago and we got divorced and, um, through a lot of prayer and therapy, we both ended up going to therapy. He got back in touch with me after, um, a year that we were separated and, you know, he came back realizing his, uh, his mistakes and saying that, you know, it, it was supposed to be me all along.
And we were actually, uh, able to talk through everything. You know, we, we wanted to make sure like that this wasn't just feelings that we were going back on, that we, we were missing each other for the right reasons. Mm-hmm and that are core reasons for the reason why we had gotten married before were, um, for the right reasons and that we were getting back together for the right reasons.
And it was only, um, When we started talking again, that I realized that he, that he told me that he was going to therapy and I was just like, oh, well, I'm, I'm going to therapy also. Wow. And so that was a big thing for, for both of us. And it was a Catholic therapist and that was very helpful for me because I could have somebody kind of from, uh, who viewed.
The sacrament of marriage, the same way that I did kind of giving me instruction and, uh, helping me through that extremely difficult time. And so I, I really would recommend therapy to, to anyone. Um, if you're a Christian find a Christian therapist, you know, if you're Catholic, Catholic, I think that having somebody that's not family that can give an UN bias.
Um, opinion, um, is so helpful because, you know, if I go to my mom a lot of times she'll be like, oh, you're, you're such a good person. Like, compared to me you're so smart. Like, um, I know you'll, you'll pick the right thing. And it's like, well, that's, that's not necessarily what I, I need to hear. Like, I wanna hear some, some good, helpful information.
I need some guidance, some, uh, yeah, I need guidance. And I went to therapy when, when we got divorced, cuz I was just, I had fallen down a whole alcoholic path again and I was just depressed. I felt like I was gonna go insane. My heart was, you know, ripped out of my chest and that, that really helped having a therapist telling me, you know, what, read.
Write this out, evaluate these things, put back into perspective, how you're gonna rebuild your life in these ways. And yeah, I mean, it was just, it's what I needed. And when I went looking for a therapist, I was recommended this one person and he, his normal, I think therapy is not cheap. I will say that, but when I, I called and explained my whole situation, he was just like, wow, I can tell you really need this.
So I'll make you a deal. If you come every week for eight weeks, I'll cut my price in half. And that was amazing. God also, I was like, okay, like the, yeah, this is what I need. And so, yeah, I would definitely recommend getting therapy, uh, help. Yeah. Prayer was important. Also finding or having, um, you know, one friend or family member that you can really just lean on that can accept you completely, no matter how broken you feel.
I, I think that those things are really important, important, great advice. And I've found so many of those things to be helpful as well, man, that, yeah, the divorce I did know about that. And I remember us chatting a little bit about it on, uh, on social media and you've been through so much and I'm just, I want to go back to the Shenandoah who.
Going through that mess in her life. Like what was going on inside of you? Like, if that was me, I would imagine that there was just so much inside of you that was like, see, you couldn't make it work. Like you couldn't do it exactly. Like you repeated a mistake that you swore you wouldn't do. Oh God, take us in your heart.
Take us in your head. What was going on? Well, it was just, first of all, the reason why it was just like, yeah, here I am. Again. I'm not enough. I, I was good. I was, I was even great. I was perfect in all these ways, but just not good enough. Mm-hmm and feeling crushed because of that, thinking that the person who, who thought you were good enough, good enough to, you know, propose good enough to, to marry you then decides no, actually, you know what you weren't, you know, and mm-hmm, , it just crushed me.
I felt ugly. I felt like. All of the hard work. Like what was the point? Why, why, why was I even a, why was I even trying to be a good person? You know, what did it matter? It's not gonna make me happy. I know bad people who are happier than me. I was thinking, you know? Yeah. And I just remember once I got past the initial shock and hurt, although you never get past the hurt, like the hurt.
Um, I mean, even to this day, like even when I look back on some of the pictures, when we were together before that breakup, like it still brings back some of the hurt. Like some of that doesn't ever go away, you can just try to love more each. and, but like you said, like I was just going around and around in my head, like, oh my gosh, I've tried so hard.
I swore I was not gonna become part of that statistic. You know, of mm-hmm how many people get divorced? You know, every, you know, out of how many couples that get married, what is it like 50% get divorced? And I was just like, that's not gonna be me. I'm gonna have all the hard conversations. I'm gonna pray every day.
I was praying for my future spouse since I was nine years old. And I was just like, really God, really like all of those years of prayers and what did it get me? Like, like, I wasn't even good enough for God to listen to. Mm. And yeah, it was just E I was realizing like, when I think back. Just all the different steps that I, I had taken.
So basically when that happened, when, when we did end up splitting, I was so broken, I really did just kind of give up for a little bit there. And that's why I ended up going into therapy was I was having suicidal thoughts and mm-hmm , you know, like I said, I was drinking so much. My kidney was hurting and I just knew I had to do something otherwise, like the part of me knew, like I deserve a good life.
Like I deserve to be loved and I know God loves me. And I don't wanna say that that's not enough, but it's, you know, it's not gonna, it's not gonna give me children, which I always wanted, you know, which is why. I know I'm my daughter is such a blessing now because she represents how much I am loved now.
So I, I will say that, but, um, yeah, it was just the darkest part of my life because it was my, my worst nightmare had come true. Yeah. And I can't imagine the feeling of hopelessness and despair. And like you said, it drove you to the point of considering suicide. And to be honest with you, it makes sense.
Like, it makes sense, given what you went through, given what happened, it makes sense that you got to that point. It makes sense that you fell into alcoholism. It makes sense that you just wanted to give up. Um, but it's amazing. You didn't, and that's just so inspiring because as you probably know, people like us who come from broken homes, like we're statistically more likely to get divorced ourselves.
Yeah. And, and so, like you said, we don't wanna become the statistic, but it is a real dangerous, real fear that all of us have and you live through that, but you didn't stop there, which is so amazing. So take us to that journey as well. You said you guys both went to counseling, uh, started talking again.
What happened after. like I said, I kind of, I was going to therapy or, and I had just finished my eight weeks and I was actually, um, seeing someone else. Um, although for me it wasn't like, it wasn't serious for me at that point. Mm-hmm I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna do whatever helps me not hurt right now.
I had even gotten a van and I did a whole van conversion and it was my, uh, I was gonna be leaving to go to Colorado. I thought and then I ended up getting sick. I ended up going get, uh, I had to go to the hospital and it was an emergency that they had to remove my left ovary. Cuz I found out I was stage four endometriosis and I was basically gonna go into septic shock if they didn't remove my ovary, which had just exploded.
And um, And so I was in there for about a week and you know, my now husband, he, he ended up, we had actually run into each other once before he knew this place that I would, um, go to. And so he went there and we kind of talked, but I was just like, you know what, I'm going to be leaving soon. And, you know, once I know what I really want, then, you know, maybe we can end up talking more.
But, um, in my mind, like at the time I wasn't really. Thinking like, yeah. Am I really gonna give this guy another shot? You know, after, um, it had sent me into so much hurt and pain that I was still going through. Yeah. And so then, um, I was in the hospital and he came and he visited me in the hospital and he said that he was fasting for me.
He, he, as it turned out, he didn't eat for three days. Um, because he was so worried about me and he was, um, purposefully fasting for me, which meant a lot. And we were talking a little bit just through messaging and I said, you know, I'm gonna go and take this job over in Virginia. And, uh, once I healed up and so I did, I went and we were just, um, talking through messaging back and forth mm-hmm and having all of the.
You know, I wanted all of my, an my questions answered as to why things, you know, uh, didn't work out as to why he had done the things he had done and why he had, you know, hurt me basically the way that he had. And, you know, I, I, we cleared a lot and I was just open about, you know, again, how I wanted to have a strong spiritual life, how I wanted to have, I basically listed out all the things that I wanted in a spouse again.
And if you don't feel that you can meet up to this, then I don't think things are gonna work out. Um, I had already gone through the whole process of having the. A enrollment that you have to have. It's like a, it's not like the full en enrollment process, but it is called a lack of form. And it's where we had, um, gotten legally married and in the Catholic church, if you get legally married, um, and then divorced without getting married in the church, then you, um, have what's called a lack of form.
So I had already finished all of that process as well. And it was just like, uh, that was such a painful process in itself. And, you know, not to, not even to mention, I had to have my mom go with me to the courthouse when I filled out the divorce papers, you know, which was six, six, uh, what was it? Six months after?
No less than that. Gosh, like I'm getting my. You know, when things are painful, you kind of push it out of your head. So my timeline absolutely get cross, but in any case, it was very soon after we got married that then I was going with my mom to get, you know, divorce, um, papers and everything. So, um, yeah, just having to, to go there and, and telling him all the different things that, you know, I had to take upon myself.
And basically I got all of, all of my anger out, like all of my, my pain out on, on the table for him. Mm-hmm and, um, you know, all, all he could do was say how, how sorry he was. And that basically he knew he had gone down and very bad road spiritually as well, just where he, you know, he had been going and having, he had a lot of doubts and, um, it, he had fallen into just being vain and selfish and he.
Went and got counseling. And he just realized that he, um, he wasn't the person he wanted to be. He wasn't the person that he, that he was when we started dating and, you know, to an obvious degree, like even his family over here in Ireland, they all noticed that he was changed. And so, um, it was just one of those things where a person gets kind of, um, off track in life and kind of scared and kind of rebels.
Or sure or rebels in a huge way. And that was what he was going through. And his answers basically long to make a long story short, not going into too much detail, his answers and his proof were good enough for me. And also we were saying novena individually, but we say the same novena, you know, together.
To St. Joseph. And, um, I had also said when Novin to St. Anne and funny enough, like the day that I finished that Novina, this was back when we were still separated that day. He texted me. And so I was just like, whoa, that's kind of weird. And so then, you know, um, just kind of moved forward from there, uh, with his bump, with his showing up where I was going and then asking if he could see me again.
So it, it all happened after that. Novina and then, you know, we prayed Novin together and just, I live by. The prayer and the saying that God makes all things new. Hmm. I would repeat that again and again, and again, mostly about myself, just feeling so broken, like, but God can make all things new and, and knowing that he can make mean new.
And I definitely believe that also for, you know, for other things and relationships, if it's meant to be, you know, if that there can be healing if, if it's wanted by both people. And if it's a healthy love, basically mm-hmm , um, that you both want the, the best for each other and basically help each other go to heaven that you, you both want to.
Have the best life and make the best life for each other, then God can make all things new. Like no relationship is gonna be perfect. But I think that, you know, the other thing that I've taken out of all of this is that communication is just so important. Like if I'm frustrated, you know, I let him know yes.
And, uh, I say what I expect and you know what, I feel that I'm, I'm not getting the help that I need, then he can step up and, you know, if he's, if he's, um, feeling the same way, then he, he can talk to me and we're just very open. And I that's one of the things that, you know, I had said that I wanted, I just needed, I never wanted a fight.
I, and we haven't fought, you know, we've never yelled at each other, you know, which is, it's so important to me in, in our relationship. You know, we, we can talk things out and. I think that, you know, if everybody can just get to that point where even if it's embarrassing, even if it's uncomfortable, if you can just say what's on your mind and heart, knowing that the person you love that person, they love you.
And that that's enough that that will keep you together. As long as you can be honest with each other, then God love you. That's that's the way to go. Beautiful. Wow, incredible. So then you guys got remarried then and you got married in the church at that. Well, we're actually our whole, um, our whole plan was to get married in the church here and then COVID hit uhoh yeah, yeah.
Little, little detour there. Little detour. Yeah. So we, we got married again. Beautiful. Right before we left in December. And then I came over here first. Um, cuz we had bought different tickets over here. Uh, funny enough before we even knew we were going to get married again because his niece, one of his nieces is my goddaughter, so I was gonna come over.
For Christmas regardless to visit her and the family. Yeah. So he, he made, he got his tickets for another time. So we were both gonna end up here at some point together in, in Ireland. Funny enough. But, um, wow. Yeah. So we're like, yeah, we're gonna get married, you know, legally there in California. And then we will fly over and we'll get married in the church there in Ireland and yeah.
Then, uh, COVID happened and every, yeah, everything changed. Crazy times. Okay. No, that, that all makes sense, so well, beautiful. You guys are together again and that's, so it's just such an inspiring story. I admire you. I admire your husband so much to just thank you. Yeah. Fight through all that and to fight for each other and to, yeah.
Just push on. And man, it must have taken so much, um, humility and so much vulnerability and forgiveness, um, to be able to get to where you are today. So I, uh, I admire that so much. Absolutely. Thank you. And it's a work in progress. It's it's daily, you know, wanting to love that person more daily, forgiving that person on a daily basis at times, you know, like, luckily I'm, I'm kind of past that stage, but I had plenty of times that, you know, I just had to.
Go into my heart and mind and be like the only way I'm gonna be able to live without fear, fear of being hurt again, is if I truly forgive and have trust and that trust is going to be, you know, out of faith, but also, you know, proving himself daily. And basically both of us proving our ourself and our love daily.
And it just has to be that way. It has to be every day you wake up, you have to make a decision that this is what you want and that this is what you're working for. And, you know, all of everything will align with that. If that's the, uh, the mentality that you're having. And I know that that's definitely not the mentality that, uh, my parents had.
And yeah, I really think that that's made all the difference. Yeah, you can grow, you can change, you can heal just those things alone. Just understanding that you can do those things is life changing. It's amazing. So you're living proof that it's possible to repair something that is very broken and, and I love it.
I love it. So thank you for sharing your story. Uh, speaking about being a work in progress, if you would touch on a little bit how your life has transformed since you know, years ago to where you are now. And like you said, things aren't perfect, but you are in a different spot. I mean, I'm at the spot now where I would never suffer abuse.
Like I have the strength now to where I can go, you know, I would look for, um, someone to help me heal, be it therapy or a friend. Someone to talk to. Um, but also I have the strength to just step away or get away from whatever type of abuse that had that strength that I didn't have as a kid or a young adult mm-hmm
And I have just a lot more confidence now that I won't make the same mistakes that my, that my parents made. You know, it was like a fear that hung over me that, oh my gosh, I'm gonna do what they did. And like, what if I just end up being unhappy with someone for the rest of my life? Or what if, you know, I end up taking it out on my kids.
Like, I, I don't even think about things in that way anymore. Cause I have confidence now that. Me the way I focus on, on love and just loving, loving my husband, um, loving my daughter the best that I can each day. If I come from, um, from doing things from the aspect of love, then I don't have to worry about all of that because that those other things they were lacking love.
So if, if love is the core of what I'm doing and how I'm doing things then, well, it's like how they say God is love. And if God's in everything, how can it go wrong? Beautiful. Beautiful. And I, I think it's so appropriate that now you guys have a baby girl, who's really the kinda incarnation of your love that you had.
To work you had to fight for, you had to work through. And, uh, I think it's just so beautiful and she's lucky to have you both as parents. Oh, thank you. Yeah, her name's Arwin Emery Arwin Emery. Beautiful. Beautiful. And I just wanna give you a chance now to talk with everyone listening. Um, especially those people listening who come from broken homes, who mm-hmm may maybe they feel broken.
They feel stuck because of the breakdown of their own family, their parents' marriage. Uh, what, what encouragement, what advice would you give to them? Yeah, I, I would say that your, your parents' mistakes don't define you and that God can make all things new and don't be afraid. do not be afraid to make your own mistakes.
I. That that's, you know, a fear that we all have. Like, we don't wanna make any mistakes, but mistakes will be made guarantee. You know, it's just, if the focus is on the right things, which is, um, living a good life and you, you know, that you are worthy of being loved, then you know, if you know you're worth, then other people will know you're worth and you have to make your worth known and just not accept less than you deserve.
And you have to be, maybe some people have to be more vocal with it. And some people maybe have to find ways to remind themselves more often of it, but truly knowing that you are loved and that you deserve to be loved. I think that's one of the biggest things that has helped me as well. And yeah, just your other people's mistakes.
Don't define you. Beautiful. If people wanna connect with you, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, sure. Um, she Lawson S H E N L a w S O N. gmail.com. That puts my personal email. And yeah, if you have any questions, feel free to, to hit me up there. Jen. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your vulnerability.
Um, it's, you're a brave woman for coming on, like telling your story because so many people, as we discussed would rather keep this stuff quiet. And so thank you for, uh, for doing it in a way that was also, um, respectful of the people involved. Um, I know, you know, it's not always easy to, to do that and sometimes, um, it's a difficult balance to talk about the brokenness in our past.
And so thank you for, for trying to hit that balance. I know it's a difficult thing to do that I sometimes struggle with as well, but thank you for sharing and for, um, just being such a beautiful example of how we don't need to repeat the brokenness that we saw in our families. Absolutely. No, thank you so much for having me.
And I, I hope, you know, even if it helps one person, then yeah, then I'm happy to share.
This is so beautiful. When I was listening to that interview before we published it, it honestly made me tear up. It was just so moving. So beautiful, such a great story. And there's so many lessons in it. One of the lessons that I took away is that even if you stumble, even if you fall, you're never too far gone, you're never out of the fight.
There's always hope to redeem your story, to redeem your life. And like she proves to even redeem your marriage. You just have to be willing to ask for. And be willing to put the work in. And so if that's you right now, if you are struggling in some way, I just want you to know that we're here for you. You are not alone.
We'd love to hear from you. And one way that you can do that one way that you can reach out is by sharing your story. We wanna hear your personal story. And some of the benefits of doing this is that it's actually healing for you on a neurobiological level. It makes your brain healthier to reflect on your story.
And there's been studies that have shown that people who write about emotionally significant events in their lives are less depressed. They're less anxious, they're healthier, they're happier and so on. And if you share your story with someone else, someone who can listen with empathy, that's also healing on a neuro biological level.
And so your story beyond just helping. It can also help someone else. It can give them guidance and give them hope who maybe are struggling. Maybe they come from a similar background that you do in your story, can give them the guidance and hope that they need. And so if you wanna share your story, it's actually really simple to do it first, go to restored ministry.com/story again, restored ministry.com ministry singular slash story on that page, fill out a form quick form, tell a short version of your story, and then we'll turn that story into an anonymous blog article.
And so we would love to hear from you. So share your story with us today. The resources mentioned during the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 42. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been helpful for you in any way, I invite you to subscribe. So you can hear more and be sure to share this podcast episode with someone that you know, who could really use.
Always remember you are not alone. We're to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.
