#016: Everyone Acted Like My Parents’ Separation Wasn’t a Big Deal | Erin Hasso
Erin’s parents separated when she was 16 after a big fight. It was really painful for her. However, everyone acted like it wasn’t a big deal. And so, she felt like something was wrong with her for feeling so hurt.
In the years that followed, she struggled with depression, loneliness, self-harm, and suicidal thoughts. In this episode, you’ll hear how she overcome those things and found healing. She also shares some practical wisdom for coping, healing, and thriving.
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Primal Loss: The Now-Adult Children of Divorce Speak
Ministry: Unbound
Podcast: The Place We Find Ourselves
Restored Blog: Seeing My Family Fall Apart Was a Very Real Loss | Erin's Story
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Erin's parents separated when she was 16, after a big fight that they had, and it really hurt her. However, so many people in her life made it seem like it wasn't a big deal. And so she felt like something was wrong with her for feeling hurt by it. In the years that followed, she fell into depression, loneliness self-harm, and even suicidal thoughts.
But thankfully her story didn't end there. She eventually got help and found ways to cope and heal. And now her life is so much better. She. Better and she's happier than she ever thought that she could be. And so in this episode, you're gonna hear the rest of her story. You'll hear how some of her friendships heard.
And some really helped her. We also discussed how, where you find your value really matters. And the implications of that, she explains why she was so drawn to self harm and how she broke out of her depression. We also touched on a really important topic of how she felt the need to parent her parents.
And we discussed why it's so unhealthy for us to do that and why it ultimately hurts our relationship with our parents. If we do. Erin gives us tips on coping in healthy ways and how to find authentic healing. And she answers the question is the pain and effort that it takes to heal even worth it. Keep listening.
Welcome to the restored podcast, helping you cope, heal, and grow after your parents' divorce of separation. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 16, a little bit about our guest Erin Hasso. Erin is a graduate of Franciscan university of Steubenville.
Currently she works part-time as a nanny while completing her degree as a medical administrative assistant at Genesee community college, she currently resides in Rochester. New York, where she enjoys taking ballroom dance classes and going on hiked with her dog. Troy, she's also leading an effort to get a ministry started in Rochester for adult children of divorce, starting with bringing the recovering origins retreat to the area we spoke about that retreat in episode nine.
So if you're in the Rochester area, definitely connect with. She was also one of the contributors to the book, primal loss, the now adult children of divorce speak. We spoke about that book in episode two, if you wanna hear more about that. And by the way, a lot of the primal loss contributors have reached out to restored to share their story.
And so if that's you, if you've contributed to primal loss, we'd love to hear from you. You can contact us by going to our website, restored ministry.com/contact. Again, restored ministry.com/contact. So here's my conversation with Erin. Aaron. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me.
This is awesome. It's it's great to have you, and I wanna just dive right into your story. And when guests come on and tell their stories, I usually ask them, take us to the day that your parents separated. How old were you, what exactly happened? How did you react to it? It was the fall of 2010, I think around October, my sister had just started college in August, so we were all getting used to that.
And I was 16 and my mom and dad got in. A big fight about don't even know it at this point. And my mom told my dad to get out. So he went to his brothers, just stayed there for a couple weeks and then moved into an apartment. And they started their separation shortly after that. I mean, they, they had a lot of fights, uh, as I was growing up.
So the fight wasn't anything different. So it was a little bit of a surprise that, you know, she kicked him out and he left and he stayed gone. But the fight itself, wasn't a huge surprise. Yeah. You had, you had gotten used to that over the years. Yeah, definitely. Um, it was a very frequent occurrence. So did you or your sister at any point think that divorce was a possibility or is that something that was not really in your minds?
It was kind of always in the back of our minds. We. My, my dad came from a divorced family. My mom came from a very together family. So in, in her mind it was never a thing, but it's something that my dad grew up with. Uh, and so we knew that, you know, we had seen it with our grandparents, so we knew it was a thing and it could potentially happen for us too.
So we were kind of prepared, but also not because there isn't really any way to prepare for that. Yeah. I don't know if I really answered that, but no, no, that makes sense. And one thing that is kind of obvious, I hope it's obvious to everyone listening. The divorce is obviously, or the separation I should say is obviously the fracture point, but there's usually so much that leads up to it.
And when we're talking about divorce, when we're talking about separation, we're including that, we're not just saying this one isolated event that just happened out of nowhere. Cause it wasn't, it wasn't random. Right. So, so no, I totally get that. And that's interesting that your dad comes from that background as well.
Um, I'm sure you're aware, you know, statistically, if you come from a divorced family, you're more likely to get divorced, which is kinda scary. Yeah. But it's true. Yeah. His parents it's all over my family. His parents are divorced. Both of his brothers have gotten divorced. There's only, my mom is one of seven.
Um, and of the four brothers that have gotten married, only one hasn't gotten divorced. So it's, it's everywhere. . I'm so sorry. Yeah. It's it's been interesting. yeah, no, no doubt. Yeah. I'm so sorry that you had to go through all this. And I was curious, yeah, following that day, when they separated, how did you react?
Well, that day, of course, I'm fairly sure that I probably went into my room and I cried, um, a normal reaction for me, I guess. But after that day, I, I think I kind. Turned, those almost turned those emotions off because, you know, I went to school the next day and I was like, oh yeah, you know, my dad isn't living at home anymore.
My parents are splitting up. Like it's actually happening. You know, my teachers, my friends, you know, all acted like it. Wasn't, wasn't a big deal. It was very normal, you know? The divorce rate is so high, it's nothing new. So I was seeing that reaction. I was like, oh, okay. Well everybody seems to think it's normal.
I need to act like it's normal. Like that I'm not affected by this because clearly I shouldn't be based on how everybody else is reacting. So, yeah. So I just, you know, I put those feelings weighted down and pretend that everything was fine to keep everybody thinking that everything was fine. Yeah, no, I, I hear that a lot and I know one of the things.
That you've said is, and, and so many children of divorce have said, it's almost like we feel like something's wrong with us. Mm-hmm for feeling the way that we do because of everyone else's reaction is usually like, oh, I mean, it's not a big deal. Right. Yeah. C could you talk about that a little bit? Did, did you feel like throughout your high school years, did you feel that something was wrong with you because you were so hurt by it and everyone else was kind of making light of it?
Definitely. Yeah, it was, it was very confusing because you know, all of my uncles that have gotten divorced, their kids were younger when it happened. So when my parents split. My cousins were like, oh yeah, you know, it happens, we're fine. You know, it's no big deal. Mm-hmm um, all of my friends' parents were together.
Um, and they were like, yeah, you know, that sucks. But we can't relate because our parents are together and all the adults in my life. And I will say I'm, I'm sure the reason that they tried to put such a, it's not a big deal spin on it is to. Make me feel better and you know, like it, wasn't such a big deal and I didn't need to get too upset about it, but it did make me feel like, oh, okay.
You know, literally everybody that I'm coming across is saying, this is not a big deal, so why am I struggling? Why am I so upset? Why am I grieving this? And you know, after, you know, a couple weeks, nobody was checking in to say, oh, you know, how are you doing with this? Mm-hmm , you know, are you still.
Struggling with what's going on with, you know, missing your parents, being together with missing your dad, being outta the house. It's just like, it almost like it never happened. Mm-hmm , you know, it's like, no, what it did happen and I'm, I'm hurting and I'm struggling. And you know, it was like shouting into the wind, you know, I could hear myself, but you know, nobody else was hearing me.
So yeah, definitely a lot of confusion and feeling like, I think the big thing I felt was I'm too emotional. Like I'm too sensitive. I shouldn't be so. That I'm feeling all of this. I can relate in some of the stories that I've heard are so similar to yours, we feel like, like you said, you know, I shouldn't be this sensitive.
I shouldn't react this way. I should be more resilient. Mm-hmm . And, but if you look at it objectively, your family is falling apart. And as, as one person said, who. Wrote their story for ReSTOR. They said I was watching my family die. Yeah. And that's a very real loss. And so to anyone listening, you know, I hope you know that it is a big deal.
It does matter. And different people have different reactions to it. Of course mm-hmm but it's so important that we just acknowledge the fact that. This is a hard thing. This is not supposed to happen. Right. And the fact that it does happen, uh, even in cases where it's, you know, necessary for the safety of the spouse or the children, it's always a tragedy.
And it always negatively impacts us the children, even if we don't see those impacts come out right away in our lives. That's what the research shows is. I'm sure you're aware is that often, you know, we do have some short-term impact, but, uh, the long-term effects are the ones that usually impact us the most.
They, they come out the most, they're the most obvious. Right. So, so I think it's a good reminder for, for everyone listening that, you know, it's, it's okay to grieve that loss. It's okay to. Feel that hurt and there's nothing wrong with you if you do definitely normal. So how did you see your parents' separation, uh, affect you in the years that followed?
Like I mentioned, there was a lot of, you know, pushing those emotions down, trying to deny that I was hurting because, you know, I felt like it wasn't normal. So the following year, my senior year of high school, my, my grandma, her cancer came back and it had spread and she ended up passing away that December.
About a year after my parents split up. So, you know, that grief on top of the grief of losing my intact family kind of pushed things over the edge. And I got very depressed. Unfortunately, you know, I, I struggled a little bit with self harm and suicidal thoughts. and yeah, I, I really hit rock bottom that year.
So that was a big, a big issue that thankfully ended up being resolved. I found a counselor during high school who really helped me work through a lot of that. I had very supportive friends then, but it was, it was such a big thing. And I think at the time I didn't realize that a lot of my hurt was coming from my parents splitting up.
I was like, no, I'm, you know, that's normal that they. So I must be so depressed and upset because my grandma died. So this is all stemming from that. And obviously that wasn't the case. . So while I did, you know, talk a little bit about the divorce with my counselor at that time, it wasn't the main focus. The main focus was the depression and.
You know the loss of my grandma. Sure. So it got out a little bit, but it was still there. And the pushing the emotions down was still happening. So that lasted about six months to a year. And that, that rock bottom just kept going. I eventually got out of it through a lot of prayer, a lot of talking. And I think part of what helped was going off to college and getting away from it kind of getting away from, you know, The fights that were still happening at home.
I mean, OB obviously not together at home, but you know, over the phone between the two of them. So that was a big thing. And I definitely think I spent a lot of time relying too much on my high school friends where I said, okay, I'm struggling. I can't go to my parents. So I'm going to put all of my, myself into my friendships and.
You know, hope that these last, because you know, the, the foundation of my family just fell apart. So I'm making a new foundation of my friends. Mm-hmm and of course that's not the greatest thing to do because you know, sometimes things happen and friendships fall apart and then you're, you know, left without a foundation again.
Sure. Which I did, unfortunately. Yeah. So there's just a lot of, a lot of grief, a lot of depression and a lot of putting my faith and almost myself worth into other people. So that's, yeah, that was the kind of the short term effect for me. And did you find in your relationships and your friendships, you were looking for your value from those people?
Is that a good way to say it? Definitely. This is actually something I've been talking to. New counselor about, I spent so much of my childhood starting at such a young age, trying to play peacemaker between my parents. That I had a hard time finding my own identity and finding my own value because I found my value in keeping the peace between them.
So when that no longer worked, I was like, okay, what is my value? Then if, if the value that I thought I had keeping my parents together, isn't there. Do I have value at all? Mm-hmm . And so then I went to my friends and said, okay, maybe if I am the perfect friend and I do everything I can to keep these friendships, maybe my value.
You know, in these friendships, but of course that's not how value works. So , did you find that your friendships crossed boundaries and got unhealthy because of the way that you looked at them? For sure. Yeah. I think I relied too heavily on some of the friendships for a lot of emotional support that, that I wasn't getting from my parents.
But of course, you know, 16, 17, 18 year olds, can't be that emotional support for you, especially when you're going through something. So, so emotional. So yeah, there, there definitely were boundaries crossed where, you know, I would confide something in somebody and then go back later and realize, oh, I shouldn't have confided that in them because you know, what are they gonna do with that?
You know, they're the same age as I am. They don't understand it any better than I do. I saw that throughout the years with me too, there were friendships that I had, especially with girls that, uh, just. Getting unhealthy, not in the sense that, you know, it was completely toxic, but boundaries were crossed and I was relying on them, just like you said, there sort of needs that I had legitimate needs that I had, that I, that weren't getting filled at home mm-hmm and, uh, yeah.
Caused a lot of issues in my friendships and ended up, um, really ending some of them. Yeah. Yeah. I can relate for sure. Did you have, aside from your, the counselor you got, did you have any mentors throughout that time? I'm just curious. I did actually. There I was in a youth group at that time. And one of my good friends in my youth group, I ended up getting very close to his mom, just the nicest woman.
And when I could, I would go over and I would spend time at their house because it just, it felt like it almost felt like home because I mean, not like my home, but you know, felt very homey because. She and her husband were, you know, they were communicating, they were very loving. They were very, you know, very focused on not only their marriage, but their kids and what their kids needed and just very present to each other and what everybody needed.
And yeah, I spent a lot of time, a lot of dinners over at their house. Just kind of watching their relationships and being like, wow, This is amazing. Like, what is, how does this happen? You know, and yeah, so I got a lot of, a lot of love and support from her and from the whole family. And it was definitely, really cool to see, you know, a healthy relationship that works through their issues and, and really puts each other first.
I wanna talk about that more, uh, in a little bit, but before we get there, if you're okay with it, I'd like to talk a little bit about the, what you were looking for. In the self-harm and in the suicidal thoughts, we don't have to go into great detail by any means, but I'm just curious. Why was that attractive?
Why was that something that you found an escape in the, the self-harm for sure was for, it would, it would kind of depend on the day. It was either because I was feeling so much grief, so much emotion that I needed some way. Get it out in a way that wouldn't draw attention to me, I guess, like, I, I would be at home and I would have all these pent up feelings.
I was like, okay, well, I can't scream. I can't cry because mom is right down. And I don't want her to know, you know, how much trouble I'm having because she's having her own issues. So then that would happen. Or it would be that I had kind of shut those emotions off and I was like, okay, I feel nothing. I need to feel something.
Hmm. Um, whether it's pain or what, I just need to feel. Like I'm alive basically. Instead of like this, you know, this zombie kind of walking around. Yeah. Just feeling numb. Yeah, exactly. And then the, the suicidal thoughts were just, it was, it mostly happened right after one of those high school friendships fell apart.
And I was like, okay, I lost my parents. I don't have that foundation. I lost this friend that I had relied so much on. And he was such a big part of my life. And I was just at a loss. I was like, I don't know how to move on from here. I. You know, if I'm failing all of these relationships, what's the point to keep going basically.
Um, like if I can't keep a relationship together, what am I doing here? Yeah. So then it became, I just want to, you know, I just wanna get away. I don't wanna be here kind of thing. Oh, I get it. And one thing that I've heard so often when it comes to. Suicide and suicidal thoughts is it's not so much that we don't wanna live anymore.
It's that we don't wanna live with the pain that we're experiencing. Exactly. So it sounds like that's where you were at, for sure. Yeah. And it going back to what you said before about finding your value and your friendships and your relationships, someone listening to that may think like, oh, you know, it's just something in your head.
It's just some mental thing that you have to deal with. Mm-hmm but right here, you're approving that. No, that has. Consequences. It has a serious impact on so much more than in this case. Even harming yourself, having the thoughts. You would potentially take your own life. So where we find our value matters, that's the point I'm getting at here, doesn't it?
Yep. If you lose what you're putting your value in and you feel that you don't have value anymore, then that leads to all these issues. Because if you feel like you don't have value, then what's the point basically. Totally. Yeah, man. There's so much to say in that. One of one thought that comes to mind is just in our culture, especially American culture.
I know there's people listening all over the world, but especially in American culture and I think a lot. Other cultures as well. We judge our value off of our usefulness. Yep. And so if, you know, if you or I are disabled or we can't work, or we can't do something that regular people can do, then we tend to think those people aren't worth as much.
Right. And that's so tragic because our value doesn't come from what we can do or how useful we. But just in the fact that we are human, like you're a human person, I'm a human person. We're valuable, we're unrepeatable, we're unique. And it's important that we talk about that, that we hear that any further thoughts on that?
Yeah. That's, that's something that I've definitely taken to counseling and. Something that my counselor has said to me many times is you're, you know, you're worth and your value. Yeah. Like you said, does not come from what you can do for other people. It comes from who you are as a person. And for, you know, those of us who are religious, your value comes from God, from being made in his image and likeness.
No, that's beautiful. And that's such a. Better foundation to build your life upon, to build your identity on than mm-hmm this kind of shifting sand of your usefulness, your relationships, whatever might be mm-hmm because that never ends well, cuz eventually you're not always gonna be good looking. You're not always really gonna have a lot of money.
You're not always gonna be popular in every circle that you run in. Yeah. All these things that we usually associate with our identity, with our value. They could be stripped away from us really at any moment. And what's left, what's left after that. I've had to wrestle with that too. It's like, okay. You know, if I'm no longer able to be a successful businessman, if I'm no longer to be athletic, if no longer able to.
You know, keep some good books. Let's say , um, what what's left and, and I think, yeah, I've challenged people on the podcast before. Think about that. Think about where you, where you get your value from. And Aaron, I could tell that you've, you've done that. You've, you've gone there and you're, I'm sure. Still wrestling with it cuz I know I am definitely the depression.
Let's talk about the depression a little. Explain that a little bit more. I, I think, I mean, I get it, but I want to make sure everyone listening gets kind of how it led up to that. It seems that there was just so much going on and you felt stuck if, if I'm hearing you, right. That ended up leading you to depression.
Talk a little bit about what you were experiencing, what that looked like in practical terms. Like, were you locking yourself in, were you isolating yourself? Talk a little bit about depression, kind of thinking there's other people listening right now who are dealing with this, so, right. You know, I think so many of them can relate to your story.
And I know I've dealt with bouts of depression as well. And so I think it's, it's useful to hear your experience. So if you would, what, what was your experience with that? Yeah, like you said, it was, it was feeling stuck and having, yeah. Pushed down those feelings for so long and feeling, you know, like I didn't have any value or any worth.
And for me, it kind of showed itself obviously in, in the self-harm, um, and the suicidal thoughts, but also my, my first semester of college, uh, my, my roommates could tell you, I spent a good chunk of. My first semester in bed asleep, you know, lights off in the room, just asleep or just in bed, you know, on my laptop or something, but very rarely leaving my room.
I would, uh, I would skip classes. I would skip maths. I would skip, you know, social functions and I would just be, you know, in my room by myself. And I mean, I know it, it frustrated my roommates a little bit because they would come home and, you know, there I was, again, I just, I had so little energy and. So little drive.
I just, all I wanted to do was sleep. And I think I ended up losing five, 10 pounds, cuz I wouldn't go out to get food. Totally. No energy, no drive to do anything was basically what it was for me. That's so hard. I'm sorry. And it sounds just extremely isolating. So I'm guessing loneliness when hand in hand with that.
Definitely it was kind of a. A vicious cycle, you know, I wouldn't go out and the loneliness loneliness would make it worse and yeah, just kept going. What helped you find some relief? Yeah, unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a counselor at Franciscan that I clicked with, but I met a couple of girls through my roommates at some point who.
Kind of kicked my butt. They were like, come on, you're getting outta bed. You're gonna go to mass with us. Um, you're gonna go to confession. You're gonna, um, you're gonna go to class, you're gonna eat food. You're going to, you know, go out and do the things that you need to do. You're gonna be social, which was a really big first step.
But the really big thing that did it for me was I went to, there were a couple of Tor sisters on campus who did a ministry called. I believe it's called Unbound, but I met up with them and I went through the whole, you know, prayer process with them. And I remember coming out feeling like a completely different person.
It was, it was really amazing. Wow. Yeah. So that was, that was the, the big thing for me. Okay. Wow. And it explain Unbound a little bit. I think I'm somewhat familiar, but just so everyone listening. At least the way I did it. I don't know if it's the typical way, but I met with two of the Franciscan sisters and we basically just spent an hour, hour or two kind of going back through my life a little bit sharing, you know, some of my suffering, some of, you know, the, not that it was a confession, but some of, you know, the sins that I was particularly stuck in the, you know, maybe I had guilt attached to, and then they.
Prayed through those things with me and really showed me like, yes, you had these sins that you were stuck in, but you can work on them. And yes, you know, you're, you're suffering through, you know, your parents putting up and your grandma passing away. But just because you're suffering doesn't mean you don't have value.
And it was basically, yeah, it was basically just taking all of the pain, all of the guilt and all of it and just giving it over to God then. Yeah. And feeling heard and seen. By these sisters and having them sit there for so long and pray with me and, you know, let me get all of it out was a, was a huge deal.
Just knowing that they, yeah, they saw me for who I was and. Didn't run away. yeah. I, I, I bet that was, I don't know if shocking is the right word, but just you, you weren't used to, that is what I'm getting at. You, you weren't used to someone kinda seeing the, the messiness inside of you and still loving you through that.
Cuz maybe this happened, maybe it didn't to you, but we often think that if I show someone how much I'm struggling, if I show someone. The bad things I've gotten into to, to cope. If I show someone, you know, the, the stupid mistakes I've made, then they're just gonna wanna run the other way. Right. I, I, I felt that throughout my life.
And, um, is that what you were experiencing? Definitely. Yeah. So then they come in and they're like, Hey, you know, you, you, you tell them, you open up to them, which I, I bet in itself was so freeing. So freeing. Yeah. Just getting that out. Yeah. And then not only did that happen, but. They were there with you and they didn't look down on you because of that, which is a really beautiful thing.
Yeah, definitely. I hope everyone can experience that at some point because that's, and, and we're gonna get to healing tips in a bit, but that's one thing that, um, that I found healing that so many people have found healing and really is a key. To healing. One of the tips of healing is like you said, getting it out and then having people just receive that and love you through it.
Not run the opposite way. Yeah, it's a beautiful story. I wanna go back to your friends that that's awesome that they kind of kicked your butt. I love that. they? They, uh, yeah. We're good friends. Yeah, because we, we all knew that. So people listening, if you have someone who is dealing with that, I, I don't wanna say that that's always the best thing to do because sometimes there's some deeper chemical imbalance that, you know, may require some more serious help, but yeah.
Fake it till you make it. I, I think that's a, yeah. Good thing. And that's kind of what you were doing, right? You were just forcing yourself to get outside of the room, go out, do all these things like, like you said, and, and eventually, uh, did, did that help you to kind of return to that healthy place where you were doing those things?
Definitely. Yeah. Um, yeah, to this day I am. Just beyond thankful for them. Yeah. And I think it helped knowing that they wanted me to come out and spend time with them and, you know, have fun. Cause I think a lot of times for people, especially who are struggling with depression and especially people who are children of divorce, We sometimes have that feeling of being unwanted.
Not that our parents don't want us, but a lot of times when they're going through their issues, you know, we kind of fall by the wayside a little bit and it can leave us feeling unwanted. So, you know, having friends come to you and say, Hey, We'd love if you came out and did this, like, oh, cool. Like they want to spend time with me.
They wanna be my friend. This is awesome. Yeah, it was, it was a big deal and definitely reminded me. Oh, okay. You know, look, they see something in me that they want to spend time with. So it started building up that value again in my eyes and yeah, definitely was. The big stepping stone to getting back to myself.
That's awesome. I love that. And I love what you said, like wanting to feel wanted. Mm-hmm feeling unwanted because of the breakdown of your family. Yeah. I totally relate with that because my, my parents did not intend this at all. I know that, and I, I think 99% of parents don't intend this when they get divorced, but it leaves us feeling abandoned often.
It leaves us feeling unwanted and those were things I couldn't have put it into words when I was 11. But looking back now. Yeah, I felt extremely unwanted and. Part of the healing process for me, like you, like, you just really beautifully said was having people genuinely want me not want something out of me, but just want me for who.
Exactly. Yeah. Turning to coping. So we've, we've kind of jumped around and we've already touched on some things, but what were some, what were some ways that you, you coped with the pain aside from what we've already covered? Cuz we've covered quite a bit. And uh, if you would, you know, you talked about some of the unhealthy ways, what were some of the healthy ways and were there any other unhealthy ways I'll I'll do the.
I'm one of those people that likes to do the less good things and then move on to the good things like end on a good note. Yeah. So I'll go with the less healthy things first. Um, aside from the ones that I've mentioned, the other big, not so great coping me mechanism for me was never saying no. And just allowing myself to be kind of a doormat to kind of be walked all over, because yeah, again, that stems from, you know, being a child of divorce, you, you wanna be that peacemaker.
You want to make things easier for your parents and make things well, cuz yeah, if you make things easier for your parents, it makes it easier for you sometimes. So you kind of learn the more I can make other people happy. The better it'll be. So I, yeah, I had. The hardest time saying no, I could never stand up for myself.
So, yeah, that was a, that was a big thing for me that I just could not say no, even to things that I should have said no to. Yeah. So that was a big one as far as good coping mechanisms. I, of course, can't say enough about counseling that. I started going again, three or four years ago. I, I had a friend of mine from high school that I was very close to passed away and I, I felt the grief coming back in and I felt myself spiraling again.
And I was like, okay, I've been here before. I'm not doing that again. And I'm going back to counseling and that's been. Yeah. That's been such a huge, huge thing, cuz it's so funny. You, you go to counseling and you're sharing, you know, your heart and yourself with this other person. And a lot of times the things that they say to you are like the helpful things that they tell you when they say it, it seems so obvious.
And so you're like, why did I not think of that myself? You know? Yeah. So that's always really cool to be like, oh, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. It just clicks. It just clicks. There's something I've been there. um, so yeah, counseling has been a huge thing. And the other thing that's been really big for me, I've been taking ballroom dance lessons and as weird as the sounds, that's been a huge coping mechanism for me because.
It's a really good way to like build confidence in yourself because, you know, you have to be very present, you know, with your, you know, your own body and you know what you're doing in that moment. And, you know, being able to see what you can do is always a big confidence boost. But the other big thing for me at least is it's a big teacher of trust for me.
Um, because I'm dancing with this instructor and I have to trust him that he's not going to like drop me on the floor or, you know, Make some mistake that's gonna hurt me, you know? Yeah. Um, and you know, trust that he's not gonna be like, oh, you know, you're doing that move wrong. You look ridiculous kind of thing.
So it's been a big, a big trust exercise. And I mean, at least for me, and I, I think you've mentioned before too, is trust is a big problem sometimes for children of divorce. Totally. So that's a, that's a big thing for me. and of course, prayer has always. A big thing, just working through whatever issues I know when, when this separation and everything first started, I had a hard time going into prayer and saying, God, I am angry.
Like, I am angry at you for letting this happen. I'm just angry because I was like, okay, God is a father. And if, you know, I went to, you know, my parents and said, I'm angry at you for this, you know, that could potentially cause an issue. So what makes me think I can go to God, the father and say, Hey, I'm angry at you, you know, and not expect bad things to happen.
So yeah, growing in that and being able to go into prayer and say, Hey God, you know, this really stinks. What's going on here has been a really good coping mechanism. So no, I totally get it. I've never heard it said like that though. You know, bringing the anger to God. That's a really good point, cuz I know that's so true that we see, you know, when our kids, our parents are the most powerful creatures that we know.
And so we tend to think that if they're like this, then God must be like this too. And so, and that, and that it's, it's kind of amazing how that extends out over our lives. Even though, like you said, some of these things. When you say 'em out loud, it's like, oh, that's so obvious, but it's not as obvious in our minds for some reason, cuz this stuff Isly ingrained in us.
So it, it makes so much sense. I love what you said there. One of the things about trust, I was talking with a friend of mine recently and we were, he comes from a broken family as well. And we were just saying as one of my other guests in the show said, when something that's so fundamental as your family, when something's so core to your identity, Your parents breaks apart.
You tend to think, well, what won't break apart. Yeah. And in a way it kind of makes us paranoid or it makes us think that, oh gosh, I cannot trust anyone. Mm-hmm . Cause if the people who I'm supposed to be able to trust the most didn't make it. And that ended badly. Then who can I trust? Right. And that's, so that's such a hard thing to wrestle with and I've even, you know, being married now, I've had to UN undo, untie, unwind a lot of those really kind of unhealthy defense mechanisms that I've had.
And my wife and I are pretty open about this, but yeah, if she could talk to you, you know, she would say it can be trying at times. And it's frustrating for me too, because, um, it's something that I wanna be able to trust so much more, but it's almost like I just whip my shield up and. Because it has become so second nature to me and we've done counseling and that's been so helpful.
And so we're definitely in a better place now and always striving to, to grow. But, um, but yeah, it, it has so many impacts over the years that you wouldn't think of in that moment when your parents. Break up. Yeah. Going to healing. So you already mentioned so much of what you did to heal and, uh, was there anything else, I guess you would add?
Yeah. Just, just learning to be better about, you know, establishing boundaries has been big, getting better about saying no, especially when I should. I actually. I met with a family friend earlier this year. He's a, he's a deacon. So it was a little bit of a spiritual direction kind of thing. And we had been talking about like discerning, you know, religious life versus married life.
And he said to me, you know, as far as you know, because your parents are split, what is keeping you from being able to discern your vocation? Like what about them? Is making this difficult. And I remember being shocked by that question that, you know, he would think to ask, oh, you know, how is your parents separation impacting, you know, your ability to discern what you wanna do with your life?
And I remember I just started crying and I said, I just need to know that they're going to be okay if I can't be, you know, readily available to them 24 7. And, and he said to me, he said, it is not your job to fix your. You need to let them be the parent and you need to be the child. And I was like, oh, OK.
like, wow, that really, you know, hit home. So learning, it is not my job to parent. My parents was. Was a huge deal for me. That's so good. And I think we all need to hear that because we struggle with that. Don't we? Why? Yes. Why do you think that is? Why, why do we feel such a responsibility? Because I, I think it's a great intention.
I think it's a beautiful thing to wanna help our parents and take care of our parents. And there are healthy ways to do that. I'm not saying we shouldn't mm-hmm but, um, yeah. Why, why do you think we fall into that so much? Really an extreme, I would guess it's because, I mean, at least from my experience, of course, from the fighting and from when they were going through this operation, you always feel like you're kind of walking on eggshells around both of them.
So you are essentially kind of parenting them because you're like, okay, well this is what this person, this parent needs. This is what this parent needs, because they're not speaking or they're fighting. Nobody can give them what they need except. So we take on that parenting role because we feel like there's nobody else that'll do it.
Totally. Yeah. No, it makes sense. There's this void that needs to be filled and we just step into cuz we love our parents. Yep, exactly totally makes sense. There was one, uh, book I was reading on children of divorce. That said there's this 14 year old boy who yeah, the mom left and he stopped going to school and he started doing chores around the house, cuz his mom stayed home and took care of the house.
Mm-hmm he started shopping. He would cook. And the reason he did that was because his dad was just totally broken by his mom leaving. And so he just assumed that role cuz someone had to. Yeah. And it's almost, so it's almost lot of necessity in some cases to, uh, to step into that role. And I've certainly seen.
You know my life with my siblings and I, I think another part of it too. And I'm gonna let you comment on this. If, if you'd like, is that we see our parents hurting too. Like, like you touched on mm-hmm and we just, they, they need support. They genuinely need support. Right. And so, and then we think because they need support, I'm the one who needs to give it mm-hmm and, uh, all these things play into the fact that we feel the need to, to parent our parents.
Would you agree? Definitely. I I'm lucky that my, my parents were still in a place where they could, you know, take care of physical needs, like the cooking and the cleaning and the getting to school and all that. It's more like, I felt like I had to jump in on like the emotional parenting, almost like my mom was struggling a lot because, you know, she didn't come from, you know, a separated, divorced parent, uh, family, and she didn't understand what was happening.
And so she was really struggling on top of, you know, her marriage falling apart. Yeah. And you know, my dad was, you know, having his own issues with it. Definitely stepping in to fill what we see as a void in their life. Especially if they're not going to see a counselor or somebody to talk through their issues with, you know, like, okay, well they're not talking to anybody that leaves me kind of thing.
No, it totally makes sense in, uh, restores online community, someone posted not too long ago about. A situation where basically, and I'm not equating it with this, but it is related where a parent almost looks at their, one of their children as their spouse. Mm-hmm and, and not, not in necessarily like a physical, like sexual way, but emotionally.
And it was a podcast episode where it's from the podcast, the place we find ourselves, which is just awesome. I I've mentioned it multiple times in the show, but you. Listen to that, but it, he, he called it Adam Young, this counselor who runs this podcast, he called it subtle sexual abuse. And again, I'm not equating what we're talking about here with that, but there is components of it.
And in, in some cases it is exactly what happens. And basically what he explains is that it gets to the point where it's so unhealthy that. The spouse who has these legitimate needs, emotional needs specifically in, in what he was talking about. They tend to go to their children to fill these needs instead of going to their spouse, because if they're separated, they just can't.
Or even if they're together, the marriage can be in a bad condition where they don't go to each other. And so it's really, it creates this really unhealthy dynamic. And it's just so interesting because it's so subtle and it almost feels like to the child, who's the one on the receiving end of kind of acting like a spouse.
It feels like you're doing something good for your parent, Adam Young. He explains it. And he quotes different sources too, to just show he play that out is really damaging, really damaging mm-hmm . And so I'll throw that episode in the show notes, if you guys wanna listen to it, but isn't that fascinating?
Definitely. And yeah, it's very true. If, you know, if you don't set up those healthy boundaries with your parents, whether it be, you know, emotionally. Sometimes financially, depending on the family, whatever boundaries yeah. That can quickly become a real issue. Totally. And this is not to say we don't love our parents who wanna take care of them.
No, we totally do. And, and I know I do, but there's been times where one parent or the other wasn't in the best state of mind or was struggling because like we've already said, it's painful to go through the breakdown in your marriage to go through a divorce. But I I've had to say, Hey, I can't provide this need for you.
You need to go to your. You need to go to your siblings, you need to go, you know, to your family, you need to go to a counselor, a pastor, spiritual director, something, someone like that who can provide for you in that way, who can offer that emotional support that I can't give you. I, like you said, like the deacon told you I'm the child.
I can't be doing this. This is not my place. And, um, it, it took a while for me to get to that point. But having that boundary now, Has helped me to have a healthier relationship with my parents, which has been healing in itself too. So it's not like, you know, when I say this stuff, sometimes parents like get turned off and like, you know, you're turning parents against their kids or kids against their parents, I should say.
And that's not the case at all. Like we want. If it's possible for the parents and the children to have really healthy relationships, but you can't do that. If the boundaries aren't in place, like you're saying so totally right. Totally on the same page with you, uh, for that, anything to add? No, I think, yeah, I think that about covered it.
Yeah. anything else you wanted to say about healing? It is a process and sometimes it is really painful. I will let you know that right now, but it's oh my goodness. When you start getting in the healing and everything, it's so good. I. I look back on my life, back in my first semester of college. And I just, I remember how just that feeling of despair that I had and how horrible that was.
And, you know, I see where I am in this healing process now. And the fact that I was able to like find joy in life again is amazing. So yeah. So do the work and start that healing and yeah. It's, it's so worth it, so worth it. Yeah. And you don't don't know that, like if you were to go back and talk to yourself, would've been hard to even believe.
I bet that you. Get to the spot you are right now. Oh, definitely. I would never, in a million years of guests, I would've ended up here so anyone listening who feels really, really down who feels so broken, think of Erin's story and just think of the progressions she's made. And I wanna go deeper down that path of, you know, you're, you're obviously.
We're always in the process of healing. I think, I think it's somewhat of an infinite game that we always keep playing someone like fitness. Like you never reach the top of the fitness speak and be like, okay, I'm fit. I'll never do anything with fitness. yeah. Hopefully you keep taking care of your body.
Um, but the same is true in healing. I think as we go on through life, our brokenness will surface in different ways or we need to deal with things. And so we continue on it. So what I'm saying is we're always a work in progress. But would you explain a little bit more how your life is, is different now that you've been walking down this path so much more joy, like being able to see the little things and be like, wow, like that's so beautiful.
You know, life is actually really good. Like there is happiness. There's like just awesome things happening. Being able to not get dragged back down into, you know, that. Depressive spiral where, you know, one bad thing happens and you're like, okay, you know, I'm, I'm rock bottom again. I, you know, how do I get back up from here?
Yeah. Just having hope, I think is probably the biggest thing, because when you are in, when you are depressed and when you are suffering so much with, you know, a separation or a loss or a divorce or whatever, there, there is no hope. You're, you know, you're at the bottom of this well going, you know, I don't see, you know, the light of day, I'm just down here by myself.
What am I doing? So yeah, now that I've been through some of that healing, I'm like, okay, I, I see it does get better. I do have hope now, like, and I know it's gonna keep getting better. The more work I put into it, like, yes. Still gonna really stink sometimes. And, um, the healing process is still gonna hurt sometimes, but knowing what the healing can bring is, is such a major, major thing.
So it's worth it. You would say absolutely. shifting gears a little bit. Let's talk about relationships as I'm sure. You know, usually the biggest effect on us, on the children is on our relationships. So when our parents separat a divorce, The research has shown that, you know, our relationships are affected the most.
And so I'm just curious, you've already mentioned it a bit, a little bit, but spelled out a little bit more for us, how did it affect your relationships? It's been difficult because before I realized, you know, what this separation was doing to, you know, my ability to trust and believe that things can last, I, I couldn't figure out why my relationships weren't last.
And it was really frustrating. I was like, what is going on? Like, you know, I, I can't keep a guy, you know, and I remember there was, there was one time I was dating this guy. We had been dating for about a year and a half. And he, he kind of gave me an ultimatum. He said something along the, the lines of, you know, you know, you have to start doing this or one of us is gonna have to end this and I'm gonna be super real with you.
My emotions just, it was almost like a light switch. They just shut off. And I was like, I have no feelings. Like I, I have no feelings and I, you know, I tried to work through that, but I couldn't trust him after that. I was like, okay. You know, if he's telling me that if I don't fix this about myself, he's gonna end things.
Then you know, what's the deal here. And so it lasted like another week or two, and then we broke up, but that was a big wake up call for me that I have trust issues when it comes to relationships, I don't trust. Someone is going to stick around. Like, no matter how much they tell me, oh, you know, I'm in it for the long haul.
Mm-hmm, , there's always that little voice in the back of my head going, are they though, you know, look at mom and dad, they got married, you know, they promised to be there, you know, in sickness and in health until death, do they part. And that didn't happen. So I was like, so can I actually trust that someone is going to stick it out through the rough patches and that also kind of led into, so, you know, there's the trust issues that would end things, or I would feel like I had to be the perfect girlfriend to keep somebody around because as long as I'm keeping them happy, they're not gonna go anywhere.
But of course, if you keep putting aside who you are to fit the mold that another person wants you to fit, it's exhausting. Yeah. It's, it's really, really tiring. And then you almost grow resentful of them, you know, even though it was your choice to, you know, try to be that perfect person for them and change who you are on a fundamental level for.
Even though they didn't ask you to do that. You, you resent them for feeling like you need to in order to keep them there. So that's been another big thing. Yeah. That's so hard just wearing that mask, being who you think you need to be instead of being authentic and saying, Hey, this is where I'm at.
That's so hard. Do, do you think that's something that we learn in our families then, because we often feel. I know, I felt that I had to wear different masks depending on what parent I was with or what side of the family. Oh, definitely. You know, my dad is tends to be more of the, the jokester of the family.
So, you know, the more I can be funny and happy around him, you know, the better I think it's gonna be. And, and my mom. You know is more of a, it's not that she's super serious, but you know, she's more spiritual. And so that, I feel like the more I talk to her about, you know, the faith and other things like that, the better our relationship is gonna be.
So, yeah. So I think, you know, we, we see our families fall apart and we go, okay. Well, I don't want to, like, at the very least I don't wanna lose my individual relationship with these people. So I need to put on whatever mask they wanna see to make sure that I keep this person in my life because we saw a situation where they broke apart.
These people who I love, and I wanna keep a relationship with ended a very important relationship that they had. And I know. So many of us are just afraid that's gonna happen to us too. And like you said, we bring it into our relationships, then our dating relationships, our marriages, and, uh, yeah, it that's toxic.
It's hard. It's exhausting. Like you said, one should have to do that. Did you, have you found that. You've been able to, to work through a lot of that. Is that something that's still in progress? I know I'm asking you to be pretty vulnerable with me here, but I'm, I'm just, I'm just curious, like, how's that going?
Cause like, I, you know, like I shared with you, but something I'm still working on in my own marriage at this point. Right. Um, yeah. It's definitely something I'm still working on and you know, I'm still. Picking up little things about, oh, you know, this is something that I do in a relationship because of the separation.
And it's something that I have to work on. I definitely can't say that, you know, I've got a down pat. Um, it's definitely something that I'm still working on. Yeah. Because trust is such a, such a huge thing. It's really hard to learn to do that when you haven't for so long. So yeah, it's, it's a struggle and I'm, I've found that.
Now that I know that I struggle with it. I'm much more aware of it. Not that I'm aware of it all the time and I, you know, I still have issues in relationships. Um, but. If it comes to my head, you know, when I'm doing something that stems from that trust issue, I can be like, oh, okay. You know, this isn't, you know, this isn't something that they did.
This is what I'm perceiving because of, you know, what I've experienced. So yeah, it helps to. Know that it's going on inside your head to kind of help you combat all of that awareness is the foundation. It's the first step to take in order to, to really overcome those mechanisms that we've learned, those automatic reactions.
Mm-hmm what words of encouragement would you give to, to someone who, who feels broken? Who's struggling in life. In different ways, um, in large part due to their parents separation or divorce, what advice would you have for them? Well, my big advice is to know that it's okay not to be okay with your parents separating or divorcing, just because you know, other people in your life might act like it's normal and it's okay.
It doesn't mean that you have. Put on that happy mask and pretend that you're okay if you're not, because it's okay to not be okay. You know, if you need help ask for it, you know, find friends that, you know, even if they can't relate, find friends that at least, you know, will sit there and hear you. And like you said earlier, see you for the person you are and not judge you for, you know, your struggles and everything.
And if you're a person of. Seek God. And don't be afraid to say, Hey God, you know, this really stinks. And I'm mad. You know, I'm mad at my parents. I'm mad at you for letting this happen, you know, because you know, he's not, he he's divine. He's not going to get upset and gun you, if you say, Hey, God, you know, I'm angry.
Like I said earlier, to learn to say no and, and set boundaries for yourself. It's. It's really hard and I'm still working on that, but that's a, that's a really, really big thing to, to help with the healing process. And if possible, after, you know, you create those boundaries and everything, if. You are in a place with one or both of your parents where you can share your feelings about what's going on.
Definitely do it. I I've been able to share a little bit with my dad of how I'm feeling and, and you know, how things have been for me. And, and that's made a huge difference in our relationship and, and how he handles different. Situations with this operation. So yeah, if you can really talk to your parents about it, thank you so much for, for sharing your story.
It's always kind of a scary thing. We talked before we started recording about how, you know, you're sharing your story with people that you'll never meet. and your, your name's attached to this. So it's out there. So guys listening, everyone listening, it takes a lot of courage to do this. So Aaron, thank you so much for, for being so vulnerable for sharing your story with us and what you've learned along the way.
It's really good advice that you've given. And I hope everyone listening can take what you said to heart and put it into action because that's really, it's. It's good to think about these things. It's good to talk about them, but we really need to act on them and that's when we'll. The changes in our lives.
Like, like you've seen Aaron, how can people connect with you or follow you? So I have Instagram and Facebook. Instagram is at Aaron Hasso and Facebook. It's just Aaron. Hasso, I'm cautious about who I, you know, accept follower requests from. But if you send me message and say, Hey, I heard you on the podcast, I wanna connect or whatever, I will absolutely 100% friend you or follow back or whatever.
Cool. And we'll throw that in the show notes for you guys. So you don't need to. Really appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for, uh, taking the time and for being so vulnerable. Yeah. Thank you, Erin is great. I really enjoyed speaking with her and I hope that was helpful for you guys. Definitely a lot of practical wisdom in that conversation that you can use to make changes in your life.
And like I said, in this show, now it's time to get to work. Don't just think about this stuff, act on it. And so my question for you is what's one or two things that really resonated with you from this episode. How can you act on it? Just take a few minutes to think about that. Once this episode is over, make a simple plan to do it and then get to work.
Just know that at restored we're rooting for you and we're here to help. If you need anything, if you wanna share your story like Erin did it just takes three easy steps. You can go to restored ministry.com/story. Again, that's restored ministry. Ministry is just singular. Dot com slash story. Once you go there, you'll fill out a short form, just a short version of your story and take some time to do that.
Take a little bit of time to do that. And then once you submit it, we'll turn it into an anonymous blog article. And one of the benefits of doing that is just that it helps so much to get your story out of your head out of your chest and share it with someone, even if it's anonymous. And it helps others too, to hear your story, cuz it really gives them hope to know that they're not alone.
Again. You could do that by going to restored ministry.com. Slash story. The resources mentioned are in the show notes@restoredministry.com slash 16. Again, that's restored ministry.com/sixteen. That's the number 16. Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful, please subscribe and share this podcast episode with someone that you know who could use it.
And always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you were born to be.
