#057: How Alcoholism Broke My Family Apart | Kendra Posch
Alcoholism is a major cause of dysfunction in so many families. That was certainly true for our guest’s family.
In this episode, she shares how alcoholism played a pivotal role in the breakdown of her parents’ marriage and family. We also discuss:
Why she kept a packed bag that was always ready to go under her bed at college
What she’d say to her parents if they were listening to this episode
How she truly desires a good relationship with her parents, especially her estranged father
Buy Joey’s book: It’s Not Your Fault: A Practical Guide to Navigating the Pain & Problems from Your Parents’ Divorce
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Kendra’s story: Sea of Confusion
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TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Alcoholism is a major cause of dysfunction. So many families. And that was certainly true for my guests and her family. Today. In this episode, we talk about how alcoholism played a pivotal role in the breakdown of her family and her parents' marriage. We also discussed why she kept a packed bag that was always ready to go under her bed at college.
She shares what she'd say to her parents. If they were listening to this episode, we also talk about how she truly desires a good relationship with her parents, especially her estranged father. And we touch on the strange dynamic she's felt in relationships going between fierce independence to the point where she doesn't let anyone in.
And then the other end of the extreme, where she has an overreliance on people to the point of an unhealthy attachment on that person. This is a solid conversation. I'm so excited to share with you. So keep listening.
Welcome to the ReSTOR podcast, helping you heal and grow from the trauma of your parents' divorce separation or broken marriage. So you can feel whole again. I'm your host, Joey Pelli. Thank you so much for listening. This is episode 57. My guest today is Kendra posh. Kendra is a nonprofit director who was born and raised in Northern Minnesota.
She attended Ave Maria university in Florida, and she now lives in Denver, Colorado. Kendra has a heart for the work that ReSTOR does and for true authentic relationships, she holds her family and friends near and dear, and can also be found in the mountains or flagging down a plane for her next adventure.
Kendra's actually a family friend and fun fact. She was the first person to submit a story on ReSTORs blog her story on ReSTORs blog years ago. And so I'll tell you at the end of the episode, how you can. Submit your store, if you wanna share yours, but for now here's my conversation with Kendra,
Kendra posh. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, Joey, I've been looking forward to this. We've been friends for a while. Our families are friends. And so I always joke when people come on this show, they always talk about like the darkest, most difficult things in their lives, but there is so much hope which we're gonna get to, but let's start with the more difficult things.
How old were you when your parents separated and divorced? Yeah. Broad timeline. Parents were separated when I was 14 divorced when I was 17 and then gotten in enrollment when I was 22. Lots of different points. So this dragged on for years. Yeah. And it still affects me to this day. And here I am at 27, which we're gonna get into.
So if you would, what exactly happened between your parents? What happened in your family that caused everything to fall apart? So this is the hardest story ever, but short, right? Uh, we did an intervention for my dad's alcoholism, my freshman year of high school fall. And he went to treatment. It went well, everything seemed to be looking up.
It seemed to be the next step for our family. Right. This is a way to have more engagement with each other. This is a way to move past some hurts, et cetera. Mm-hmm um, but then bam, things were turned upside down. I didn't, it didn't go well, it didn't, uh, he went to treatment. Okay. Then he left the treatment center and went on a war path for lack of a better word.
He wanted a separation. Um, his whole extended family got involved. Um, Our small town got involved. oh boy teachers were involved at school. It became a really huge convoluted mess. Mm-hmm um, and I really just didn't know which way it was up. And so if people know anything about high functioning, alcoholics, you know, that first stage when you're approached by your family, you're forced to confront your addiction, um, to whatever substance it is to just face it to face it.
It's scary. Right. And so that first stage a problem, right? That's like the 12 steps. Correct. And that first stage is denial. You don't even know I am lying. Totally. That's what they say it is. And my dad, that's why he went on a war path. Right. He didn't want to admit he had a problem and he wanted to point out everyone else's problems.
Mm-hmm and his focus was taught in my mom and we were all caught in the crossfire. Mm dang. Right. And I know that all of his siblings stepped in and the extended family stepped in because they cared about him. Totally. It just seemed like. They circled the wagons, right? Mm-hmm but they left us on the outside, who we were branded enemy.
Right. We had to choose a side. And if we chose Iran side, you were cut off. So you were seen as the villain. Absolutely. Like it's my fault, right? Yeah. I'm a product. My mom is a villain, but I'm her evil sidekick. Gotcha. Yeah. Which, I mean, it's never okay for family members to do that. Um, but something similar happened in my family, you know, there's everyone picks sides when this sort of thing happens.
And if you even give any sort of indication that you're on one side, like if you're on dad's side or you're on mom's side, then the people on the other side see you as again, an enemy and they want to attack you. And I think family members end up doing things that they normally wouldn't do just because it's such an emotional dramatic situation.
Absolutely. And so it, it turns really, really messy, really, really quick. And it was so surprising. It seemed to be so abrupt, right. This change in relationship, this change in interacting with each other, there are a lot of things that I never knew. Someone could do to someone that they loved and yes, it's misguided, but that is me speaking as a 27 year old, not speaking as a 14 year old, that was caught up in this can't imagine so quickly thereafter it was courts.
Right? My mom and dad were in court, fighting over custody, fighting over all of these things, right. Entering into the preliminary stages and litigation of divorce. I don't super know what happened in that regard. My perspective was court ordered counseling, lots of different counselors court ordered visitation with my dad.
I was the one that had to pack my suitcase every other weekend and go and spend it with him. Right. Totally. And every single time it was am bushes by different people saying, choose a side, choose a side. Right. Mm-hmm he doesn't have a problem with. Mm, there it divorces fine. Kendra. What's the big deal.
It's normal. It's normal. It's accepted. Yeah, it should be good. It's it's a way out, right? Isn't this better than them fighting all the time. Mm-hmm mm-hmm those are the typical talking points of yeah. People who don't really understand the lasting impact and often devastating impact of the breakdown of your family, of the breakdown of your parents' marriage.
Exactly. And, um, to me, my Catholic faith is really important and what the Catholic church teaches about divorce totally at odds with how my parents raised me. So seeing my dad flip on all these things that we were brought up in mm-hmm was also so disorienting. Right. And you didn't know which way it was up.
When I look back on that time and I try to place myself in those high school years, it's, it's difficult. I can't remember good times versus bad necessarily. I recognize that like my brain blocked out so much because I was in survival mode. Totally. So I think, oh, what happened when I was 16? shoot. I don't know.
I remember three big fights with my dad. Mm. I remember a really good time at a piano recital. Okay. But I remember a lot of negative times. Yeah. So then my senior year of high school, um, my mom asked, Hey, I know you're going into your senior year. I think it's time we move. Right. We were in a small town of 5,000 and you're still doing visitation at this point.
We're still doing some visitation at that point. We were also doing, um, Tuesday night dinners with my dad. Okay. Okay. It was supposed to be a quote egg that I gave, right. From the counselor. You ought to do this. Your father loves you, but they were never fruitful. yeah. Right. It was just, how can I get you to see my side?
Mm-hmm it wasn't how was school today, right? Yeah, there was no, there was no building of relationship, which was so difficult and hard because from what I knew, my dad and I were close prior to this. Right. Yeah. And, and you desired that relationship again with him. Is that right? I do. Yeah, you do now. And you, did you at that point too?
Or was it at that point still? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep. Um, there was a set point during my high school years where an ambush was planned for lack of a better word. That's how I'm going to describe it. One of those Tuesday night dinners and we were supposed to, you know, be in public, we're supposed to be at restaurants.
And next thing I know my dad is driving us to his house and I'm a very, um, detail oriented person. I'm about timelines. I'm about schedules. And I was like, I know we have an hour and a half grin and Barrett Tundra. Then you can get back to your homework. Then you can get back to your daily life. Right.
Mm-hmm I'm 15. What else do I know? Right. So this is, yeah, my goodness. You know, been at almost a year of all this stuff. Mm-hmm and my dad ambushed me with one of his brothers. Oh boy, the ambush was supposed to be nice. It was supposed to be kind right. My uncle brought my favorite dessert. We're all gonna have dinner together, but this is a Tuesday night.
We drove 30 minutes to get here. I have a lot of homework I need to do. Right. I'm focused on what I can control and what my vocation is at that time. The student I'm a teenager. Yeah. Gosh. And when I wasn't cheerful and happy to see my uncle mm-hmm, keep in mind again, this isn't the use of circumstances I'm supposed to be in.
He's already breaking these rules. Right. You know, something's I know something's up. Yeah. I wasn't happy. I'm allowed to not be happy. I'm a moody teenager. Please gimme some slack. and my uncle ripped into me. Um, and my little sister was there with me. Just absolutely reduced. The two of us to tears, you know, dragged us up and down verbally and emotionally of just how awful we were.
You can't believe that we would ever do this. How is this loving? Aren't you Catholic? Don't you honor your father and mother. How is this happening? Actually, he admitted mother, but wow. And I sat there like crying and I just asked my dad, I said, how can you allow him to talk to me like this? Hmm. And he just looked at me and he said, you deserve it.
Someone needs to speak like this to you. And at that point I knew it's not my dad anymore. He's so wrapped up in his hurt. He cannot see through this mm-hmm right. And it was a turning point in terms of my trust with him. Mm-hmm before then I was really desiring a relationship. After that point, I recognized.
It is not possible. I do not know my father. I do not know what motivates him when it's obviously not my tears and to protect me. Mm that's so heartbreaking because he is supposed to fill that role. Right? Exactly. He is supposed to protect you and it makes sense that there would be such a fracture in your relationship with him, given those actions, the, the things that he did to you are allowed to be done to you.
And I think some people listening right now, we have parents listening right now. Right. And some of them might think, well, Kendra, you must hate your dad. And you hate your uncle. What would you say to them? Do you hate your dad? Do you hate your uncle at the time? I did. I was so hurt. I bet it was so hard, especially rightfully so.
Not just hurt for myself, but my little sister was 11 and I became mama bear during out during this whole process. and so on behalf of her too, I was angry. Mm-hmm and it just seemed so unjust. Right. I was also operating from what, as I said, a moody teenager here, right? Yeah. I didn't, I didn't have any reference point.
Makes sense. Right. And so it was, and now, again, in hindsight, like I learned more about alcoholism mm-hmm I learned more about high functioning alcoholics. I learned more about family systems and the time and space has helped me where I can see that I was hurt and I'm no longer angry about it. Okay. I'm sad still.
Right? I still wish I had a relationship. Yeah. But I also recognize that it takes two to have a relationship and you have to have that safety there. Totally. I, I, I think the reason I bring up that question about like, do you hate your dad or your uncle is because there's a big misconception among people who normalize divorce.
They think that when we talk about the harm of divorce and how people, you know, or separation, or just really dysfunctional marriage, they, they think that we're hating on our parents. When in reality, all we're trying to do is just help bring healing and growth. And in order to do that, we have to face the truth, which is often a very uncomfortable truth.
And that's where people, I think get angry and upset with what we're doing right now is because we're talking about something that's really difficult and makes people look in the mirror and say like, yeah, I wasn't the best person I did hurt these people. And so, right. We need to be able to hold both at the same time and say like, okay, this hurt.
But we also, ultimately, ideally I should say. Wanna have a good relationship with our parents. And that's what we're so focused at restored. We wanna help people to get to that point. It doesn't happen right away as you know well, but to anyone listening who is maybe thinking that no, we're here to help heal those relationships and make them stronger in the future, perhaps.
But we want that right. How can I love my parents when things are so messy? Mm-hmm right. It doesn't mean I don't love them. I love my father. Of course they do that doesn't mean I need to have a relationship with him when there is no safety there. Right. When he doesn't have the capacity to do so. Totally.
Right. His, his experience with that is. Very narrow and limited. And it's on his terms only. Mm-hmm that's not a relationship. No. And every healthy relationship requires boundaries. Like you can't, we, we did an episode on this. You can't have a healthy relationship without boundaries. Right? It's it's impossible.
And so what you're describing is like you've put boundaries in place to protect yourself, but also to protect the other person. That's what a lot of people misunderstand about boundaries is it's not just like this one way street. If someone's mistreating you by putting a boundary up and saying, no, I'm not gonna talk to you now until you change your behavior, you're actually helping the other person.
It's actually like an act of love to say that tough love, tough love, right? it's not something that they would perceive as love, but it's actually a good thing to say, like, no, you, you can't treat me like that. And I won't allow it. And I'm not gonna have a relationship with you until you change that.
Exactly. Exactly. And teenagers are going to be moody. They're gonna be teens and you have to let them be that you can't expect them to treat, uh, this divorce and this messiness. like, they're an adult. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm, , that's unfair. Right? It's being done them. Yeah. Right. I'm not, I'm not trying to like build victims or anything here, but they did not choose you guys to be married.
They did not choose you guys to go through a divorce. Mm-hmm right. And to, and to break the family, right. Obviously parents have to make decisions within like their own steam of things, but you need to let your kids be kids. I am by no means perfect in my interactions with my dad. Right. I again, remember all of the fights.
Yeah. It doesn't mean I was nice. I was always logical. Definitely bet. Yeah. Which was almost worse. um, knowing I was always logical and I just would present logical fallacies to my dad and, you know, he didn't like that. um, And that's okay. That doesn't mean I should be berated for my behavior, because if my father is acting like a child, I'm allowed to act like a child, cuz I'm also a child.
We had family members who were very angry and who kind of ganged up and attacked my siblings. And I, we I've had recently situations. There was situation with my dad where there was some disagreement. And at one point he asked us my siblings and I in like a group text message that he asked us to be like honest with him.
And so I took the opportunity and I wrote out a text message. Like I, I was careful not to like send it right when I wrote it, but I wrote it, I reviewed it and then I sent it. And one of the things I said was what you just said is like dad, like we never asked for this, like we never asked for you and. To break apart.
We never asked for you guys to get divorced. We never asked for a broken, dysfunctional family. Like we wanted a healthy and whole family. Yes. Like we wanted that so badly and it's just really sad that it was taken from us. So I agree with what you you're saying. We don't want people to remain victims, but it is okay to acknowledge that at one point you were a victim and people who, children of divorce are very much so victims, but we're just not meant to stay there.
Correct. We need to move through that. We need to grieve the loss. And, but I think acknowledging that you. This was done unto you, is it is crucial. Exactly. Because it was not your fault that your parents got divorced. Exactly. That's why our new book is entitled that cause no, it it's, it's kind of, it sounds silly when you tell someone that like why in the world would you blame yourself for it, but we do it.
And what I've come to is that often we do that because it gives us some semblance of control over a situation. That's very chaotic. It's like if I, if I could at least look back and see, well, maybe I could have done this differently. I could have done that differently. Then maybe we feel some level of control in otherwise control list.
If that's a word situation. Exactly. There are so many phone calls I can remember countless hours spent on the phone with my dad trying to reason with him. Mm-hmm right. Trying to just reason with him of, you know, alcohol or, you know, different things because in my mind, as a 14 year old or 15 year. if I can get him to accept this, mm-hmm maybe he will accept some sort of culpability for fracture in our family.
Yeah. And maybe then I can reason with him to show him, dad, I see that you're struggling with this and I still love you. Yeah. What can we do, right. Amen. Yeah. You can't reason with someone who's in the denial stage. That's the problem. And I didn't know that at that time mm-hmm so there's lots of tears, lots of phone calls.
Um, again, as I said, like my dad and I, in my perspective had a pretty close relationship. I was close with both my parents and to have that fracture and disintegrate so quickly and easily was huge, huge wound. Let's get into more of that too. When it comes to the wound, the wounds always have effects on us.
Right. We often react to them in different ways. Uh, how did you react to yeah. Just everything that happened in your life, your parents broken marriage, dealing with your dad's alcoholism. Like what were those effects? On you in particular? Yeah, I was angry. It doesn't mean I showed people my anger, but internally I was angry because this was not right.
Mm-hmm um, I'm a very logical and analytical person. And guess what? It isn't fair to have to be more mature than your parent. It was so difficult. It isn't fair. Or just to be the one to pack the suitcase. Right? Why can't he do that? Mm-hmm why do I have to be the one to drive four hours? It isn't fair to be asked by relatives to just let it go.
It's not that big of a deal. They're happier now. Mm-hmm right. It isn't fair to be the one to ask, to check your emotions and all of those things. So I dealt with anger, but I also knew, like, I felt like my emotions were wrong. Right. I'm supposed to love my parents. How can I love them when I'm angry? Mm. Um, and so I wore a mask, I shut down my emotions.
I, and I became so externally motivated and a perfectionist, right? Hmm. No one at my school, unless you were close to me or were in my, um, tine group. And even then they were shocked. Mm-hmm could guess that I was struggling with so much. Hmm. I threw myself into what I could control, which were my extracurriculars and my grades.
Yeah. You looked like you were thriving on paper from the outside. Everything was perfect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I was involved with my church. I was involved in extracurriculars. I was doing really well in school. I had great relationships and friends, you know, with things at school, but it was a veneer. I was very cool and collected.
Right. Which can also be a way to irritate someone, which I had quickly found out. Yeah. Right. And when you're always calm and someone can't get a rise out of you during an interaction, but I was shutting down my heart. I wasn't actually engaging with anything. and this became difficult for all relationships with parents, with my siblings, with friends, with family, with guys, all of it.
Yeah. And also all of that, again, I became fiercely fiercely independent. No one was going to hurt me like this again. Right. You wouldn't, you wouldn't let them, you wouldn't let anyone in to even have the chance to do that. Right. And so I disengaged, I sacrificed connection for the sake of autonomy. Wow. It was my survival mechanism.
Right. Do I regret those decisions? No, it's what I needed at the time. And it's in reflection and, and growing that I can, I can look back and I can see that that's powerful. You said you were a perfectionist. I think a lot of people, some people fall into that camp as well. When we're reacting to trauma in our lives, we just tidy everything on the outside, but everything on the inside is a total mess.
Right. And some people are the opposite where they just let their external reflect their internal. So it's like, everything's a mess inside and outside. But other people like I'm one of those, I'm like you where yeah. I make the outside look so perfect. Like so tidy. It's a beautiful facade. Exactly. And so no one would ever be able to know.
And I think that's partly why people like us. Um, are often misunderstood because we often like do really well in some areas of life, like our careers, you know, sports school at the risk of sounding arrogant. I remember the, like the day I found out that my parents were getting a divorce. I was away at school.
This is after they had separated years prior. It things at home had fallen apart. When I went off for my first semester, um, at a four year college. And so I got this call from my mom and I didn't want to tell anyone, I didn't wanna burden anyone with that, which isn't a good mindset. You should open up to people to everyone listening.
Don't do this alone. It's too much for you to bear and people wanna love you and help you through it. But a lot of the people around me, I didn't feel like they could maybe handle. The heavy stuff that I was going through, so I didn't wanna burden them with it. So I just held 'em on side and my way of coping oddly at that point was school kind of like what you said.
Right? And I literally, this again sounds super arrogant, but I literally aced a test. The day after I found out my parents were getting divorced because I, I just like. Poured myself into it. I didn't always a ACE tests. Don't hear me wrong people but, um, yeah, I, I just poured myself into it. So I think a lot of times we like run from some areas of our lives and then thrive in other areas of our lives.
Because those areas that we run from are just so broken. Right. And so difficult to deal with. Right. Like I said, emotionally, I was dead, externally numb. Fantastic. Right. It's a thing I could control. I threw myself into it and again, to an unhealthy degree, but that was my coping mechanism. When I was in high school.
I wanna see if you could relate with this. I felt so numb. Like I felt, I almost felt like I didn't have a heart in my chest. Oh, a hundred percent. Yes. Yeah. Like I wanted to, I, I like had this desire to be so happy and to live life to the fullest and just like, find so much joy. And all I really felt was just like numbness.
Like I, I was going through the motions. I was doing what I should do the right thing to do, but I just felt so numb. So that sounds like what you were going through as well. Right. I remember. Different conversations. I would have with friends where they're opening up to something. And I remember being so emotionally disconnected and reminding myself, Hey, you're kind of acting like a robot you ought to say.
Hmm. I'm so sorry here. Like I remember trying to coach myself to connect with my friends. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean to laugh. It's just a funny conversation, but it is listen to in your head. That's oh, my self-talk was so interesting, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I would say high school numb mm-hmm sea of confusion.
Total fo didn't know when she was up. No compass whatsoever. Right. I cl to my faith and I clung to my identity as, um, a mama bear to my sister. Okay. She didn't want a mom. She wanted a sister. Hmm. You only need one little sister. And that was my coping mechanism. Right. I really, I delved into that. So then when I go to college, right, I go to college down in Florida.
It's a long ways for Minnesota. And my freshman year, I had a suitcase packed and READi underneath my bed at all times. Why? Well, my little sister still had to go see my dad. Hmm. And if my mom had to leave for a business trip, she had to go see my dad. And if my, if things were bad, I was 18. I could be present.
I'm an adult that she did stay with. But that also meant I wasn't actually getting involved at college. I wasn't delving into myself and all these different opportunities that were there again, emotionally, externally, I was doing great, but being in a constant state of flight of ready to run there at a moment's notice.
You sacrifice so, so much. Wow. That's so moving and yeah, I don't even know what to say to that. It's just so sad that, and, and kind of shocking to people who don't understand your background, don't understand like this sort of trauma. Um, they probably could never understand, like why you would do something like that, but it makes my own roommate didn't even know.
Right. It makes so much sense though, you know? Right. I was, I was ready to flee to moments' notice to be there for my baby sister. Not because she asked it, not because my mom asked it, but it was the way that I could help in that situation. I remember. All the phone calls I had with my little sister mm-hmm we would talk a lot and I always could tell a marked difference whenever she was with my dad.
She even told me, well, it's not as bad with you, not here, cuz at least there's no arguing. Right. Cause it's true. I did. I was in Cindy with my dad. Yeah. Right. As I said, you know, I definitely provoked and was always like logical or just would shout. Yeah. You would stand up to him. Yeah. I would stand up to him versus my sister's tactic was to be passive and that's that's her decision.
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. She, uh, she knows what she has to do to deal with that situation. Sure. I just hated the transformation that would happen. Right. And I'm sure she saw the same with me whenever with dad, I am more angry. I'm more outspoken. I'm more aggressive. Mm-hmm that I saw with her. She's more dormant.
She's less herself. She's so quiet. I can't talk to her on the phone. Yeah. And so I was just ready to change that at a, at a drop of a hat. Wow. If I can protect her from that. Right. I was still in mama bear mode. Yeah. Not, not a big sister mode. Have you talked to her about that? Absolutely. Yeah. That's beautiful.
Yeah. We talked a few years ago, you know, it's always so funny when you open up, especially like to a sibling or to someone who's in that family system. Mm-hmm, compared to someone removed from it and to, and it's harder . Yeah. Right. And so I just told her I'm. You know, I know you needed a big sister. I know that now.
Um, I operated the best I could and you know, I'm sorry. And she, you know, she just forgave me and she goes, oh wow. I have a completely different take of events. interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it was really, really healing, um, in that way. And I just have been focusing more on being her bitch sister or just a sister right now that she's an adult.
We're all adults now. Right. I have four sisters. We're all graduated from college, all autonomous sweet it, the relationships differ. Right. I mean, I still will only ever have one baby sister mm-hmm and she knows that. Yeah. And every once in a while, I'll check myself and say, sorry, went to mama bear it's.
So I think it's so natural. Like I'm, you know, one of the oldest in my family I'm number two and. I think it's so natural to be super protective. I, I know I was, we won't go into that right now. Right. You'd rather take the bullets instead of them having it a hundred percent always. Yeah. How else did you see the effects of your broken family?
Parents' marriage impact your dating relationships? Oh, if you're comfortable sharing. Oh, absolutely. Um, I have a core wound of feeling like I am not enough, like I'm not lovable in and of myself. Cause because if I was my dad would've stayed. Right, right. That'ss the whole self talk. That's so thing. Yeah.
Right. That's what I think. But it's paradoxical because my fear is also that I am too much. Right. I don't wanna rock the boat. It was so much easier in the family system to not be the one that messed up. Right. Cuz then all the fingers pointed at you. One counselor described it as, uh, the game of tag. Hmm.
If someone pointed out something to you mm-hmm Hey Kendra, you didn't finish your homework. Or, Hey Kendra, you didn't do your chores. I would immediately flip it and point at a different sibling and say, but she didn't do this. Something that was more grievous deflect, you deflect. But at the same time, you're tearing down that interpersonal relationship with the sibling because you were putting them in harm's way.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm right. So as much as I said, I would take bullets for my little sister. I was also seemingly happy to shun her into that because I was so worried about myself. So that that's what the deem of tag is. You're constantly pointing out someone else's faults, mm-hmm to deflect from your own. Wow.
And it's messy and it is not a healthy way of having a relationship. Everyone's all of your relationships, basically. Right. And I did that because I learned it in my family system. I brought it into romantic relationships. Don't rock the boat. Hmm. So I'm a very independent woman. I'm fiercely energetic.
I'm always doing something. And that I recognize is attractive to like the guys that, you know, I've been in relationship with. Totally. But then I turn into a door mat. Which is not me whatsoever. Yeah. Because I don't wanna rock the boat. I wanna, I don't wanna be, um, too high maintenance or too much. Right.
And so it was so patently false to my identity though. Mm-hmm right. They would ask me a word of, I want to eat tonight again, something so simple. And there's jokes about this and talks about this. If the woman doesn't know, I always know. Yeah. I have an opinion about everything. Even if you asked me in the moment I will form one.
Yeah. And I would be like, oh, I dunno, whatever you want. Right. I would just roll over with everything. Yeah. Or it'd be, I have to make this work cuz I have to do love. Right. Cuz my parents didn't. Hmm. And so there were so many red flags that would ignore. Oh. But like you just have to love them. No, one's perfect.
Kendra. You're not perfect by any means. So what can you do? That's something I struggle with as well. Um, in my day and relationships, I. I had this like fierce sense of loyalty almost to the level of like a marriage, cuz I just didn't. I never wanted to abandon someone and correct. That felt breaking up with someone felt like abandoning them.
So even in relationships where I was like, well, I don't know this isn't really going that well. I dunno if I could see myself marrying them. But I can't like leave them. I can't abandon them. Like that would be repeating what my parents did to me and I, right. That's not what love is. I can never do that.
And so it just misconstrued, I put way too much commitment into a dating relationship, which isn't meant to have that level of commitment. So I hear you. And I think, I think that it is a common struggle, but it's so interesting. Cause I, you know, knowing you as a friend, it's like you are so again, outspoken, opinionated in a good way.
Like, you know what you are. I like to think so you're, you're like a hard charger you get after it, you get stuff done. You're one of the most productive people I know. And so to see you flip, that's so interesting and it probably is super confusing for you when you're looking in the mirror and be like, who, who are you?
I would ask myself that a lot. I mean, you also recognize it when, I mean family or origin, when you go back and you're back home for Christmas and you are not yourself. Oh gosh. And you recognize it, but you don't know what to do about it. Right. And you just feel torn. I would say the other thing with like dating relationships and that emotional intimacy.
Again, I struggled with that with friends. Of course. I'm gonna struggle over during dating, right. A hundred percent. So there I did not date in college. Okay. Yeah. I emotionally dated. Sure. And emotionally dated just means it's an extended talking period. You would go to math together, but it was never actually dates.
It's like a flame. It was a flame, but I gave it so much pressure. And so, because I put so much pressure on it, right. The first date was such a big deal to. Which again, dating should be done in a very intentional way, but it was so out of proportion to reality that I would either be way too invested and turn into a doormat or completely just cut them off.
I would, as one friend said it in college, I would snip them, snip the guy. I would just drop all connection and just be done because the last thing I wanted to turn to with my daddy problems was a guy mm-hmm I hear you. We're done cut. 'em off. Yeah, you cut 'em off, but you're not giving anyone a chance. I had such a, it was such a weird paradox of having this high pressure on love and relationships mm-hmm but also once you were in it, having such low stage such low standards mm-hmm and so there were a lot of opportunities.
I never pursued because, oh, he just doesn't get it. Or he made that one comment about my dad. So he will never understand mm-hmm right. Cause he never talked about it. Of course. He's not gonna understand mm-hmm no one should understand from the get go. Yeah, right. You build intimacy. It doesn't happen in a deep dive on the first encounter.
Yeah. Especially with people who don't come from broken families, like it takes an, an extra effort for them to even try to understand what you're going through. Right. And it was everyone I, I thought, right. And again, it was my own self. Doing people viewed me as perfect. I had my life put together. I had dealt with these things cuz you assume you deal with them to be able to do this.
It's false. I hadn't dealt with them but I, at the same time simultaneously, I was like, I, they put me on a pedestal. They don't know how messy and unlovable I really am. Mm-hmm right. So I'm dealing with this and it would flip depending on the guy, depending on the situation. And honestly it was just tiring, which is why I typically just sniffed it.
And I was like, I don't know how to deal with this because I don't know how to deal with emotions. We're gonna cut it off. It's exhausting. It is. I don't have time for it either. Cuz I'm not hardly sleeping. right, right. I was so wrapped up in everything. Bottom of my total pole, even though my deepest desire is to be a wife and mom was to work on that because that's so interesting.
And it's, and it's that core wound of like, well, my dad left, why wouldn't he leave two? Yeah. And it's almost easier to suffer the consequences of being alone than it is to risk being with a guy who then discovers, I don't actually want to be with you or you're not enough, right. Or you're too much or you're unlovable or whatever lie.
Right. That we believe that when you're thinking in the future, you're thinking like I would rather just be alone. And I think that's where a lot of people are at right now, because then you can't hurt me. Right. It's just this big defense mechanism. Right. And it's such a lie because the right person and a good person.
So in your case, a good man, in my case, a good woman will be able to work through those challenges, right. To work through that brokenness, to show you. Not solely, but as an important person in your life that no, you are enough and you're not too much and you are lovable and you are good and you are worth fighting for, and you are worth sticking around for, but man, it's scary and you don't really know it until you go down that path.
So I remember for me, you know, my first serious relationship was end of high school, beginning of college mm-hmm and, uh, it was so scary. Like I was just terrified and so anxious. And she came from a really, really good family and that made me feel even more so that like, I couldn't open up to her cuz she couldn't understand.
And if I did, she might be like really thrown off and freaked out by like, man, you're kind of a mess inside, even though everyone thinks you are like perfect. Right. Um, which is a huge joke, um, that anyone in my life would've thought I was perfect, but um, I gave off the impression kind of like you did.
Right? So man, there's so much there. Um, any thoughts on that before we move. Only that I was so focused on everything during college. Again, I, I sniffed people. Mm-hmm, that my, my first real relationship wasn't until post-grad. Yeah. Um, which is a big learning experience for me in emotional intimacy and connection and not sacrificing yourself for the sake of connection.
And there's a lot that can be impact there. And it's like this pendulum swing I did mm-hmm right. Um, if you view relationships on a spectrum, right where the, the mean the middle. is the ideal mm-hmm and you're naturally gravitate towards one of the two vices, right? One of the two bad ways to do relationship yeah.
And access or deficit. So for anyone listening, who doesn't quite understand this, it's like, you can go wrong in either of those directions. So access would be too much and deficit would be not enough. Exactly. So let's picture spectrum of relationship right. Too much would be enmesh. You sacrifice self for the sake of connection.
Mm-hmm , which is what I did in every romantic relationship and over reliance on the person, they almost determine your happiness and your wellbeing. Right. And it doesn't matter what I think, as long as we're together, but it's so much better when we're together. I'm sure. Some of you have heard these phrases before.
Totally. I, that was my self talk, every romantic relationship. And then on the flip side, right on that deficit side would be sacrificing connection for the sake of autonomy. Mm right. Remember when I was describing how I robotically, talked myself through emotional intimacy with my friends. Yeah. Yeah.
Right. Cause I, I was constantly sacrificing connection because I wanted to find out who I was, I needed to delve into that and it's a pendulum swing. So I'm naturally inclined to disengage from things. Right. I didn't know, emotional intimacy. It wasn't gonna delve into it. And I saw out other things, but then when I went romantic, it swung the other way and it was totally enmeshed.
Hmm. Yeah. And it was complete sacrifice of self for the sake of connection. Wow. No relationship is worth that that's not authentic and true and healthy connection. That middle yeah. Is able to connect without sacrificing self where it takes you. When you're in the middle, is it challenges you to become a better, healthier, stronger, more whole person?
You have to be vulnerable, right? It's hard. And in those opposite, those, those extremes that we're talking about, they both of them lead you to be, you know, a second rate version of yourself, a less best version of yourself, right? It's not what you're told to me. No, it's not authentically you so much there.
I wanna shift a little bit to the, a happier topic of healing and growth and healthy coping and all of that. So I'm sure we could talk forever about this, but what were one or two things that have helped you cope and heal the most in your life? Three things, counseling, counseling, counseling. Nice.
honestly, I, I mentioned that I was brought between all of this court ordered counselors. We flipped from, you know, this one to that one to everything I know it's like in, when I found a C. Again, not family counseling, not group counseling, but someone for me, I pursued out of my own accord. Not because the court told me to or anything.
Mm-hmm it helps so much. Wow. And this is a recent thing, right? So this happened within the past, um, 18 months, I started going to counseling. I, I had done, you know, different spiritual directions for lack of a better word. You meet with like a religious leader and you, you strive for virtue, right? It's like a spiritual coach.
Yeah. They help you grow as a person, grow a relationship with God. They recognize, um, the big tenets of your life, those big rocks that are in place that motivate you and how you make decisions. But a counselor has the tools to help you through this nastiness that happened, right? The emotional side of special, the emotional side of things, and to learn these tools and everything.
So finding a counselor, building that trust, it takes time, but I promise you, it is worth it. Don't flip from counselor to counselor. Well, let me take that back. unless they're not, sometimes it's not a good fit. Sometimes it's not a good fit, right? Yeah, yeah. Fair. But when you find that you need to give it a chance mm-hmm I am by no means having a perfect method for things.
And I, by God's, you know, Providence stumbled upon this counselor who specializes in family systems and addiction, and she has the same belief system as me. So it matches up really, really well. Dang. Yeah. Right. So it's not denying right. if I'm a Catholic and I have this view of divorce, I need someone that can empathize with that view.
Mm-hmm of why it's a big deal for me. Yeah. Why it hurts so much. Yeah. And I've been to counselors that, you know, they're a Christian and it's different, but like, oh, worst case scenario. It's always okay. That doesn't help me cuz that's not my belief system. So it was so important having that for me and then to see her regularly at the beginning, um, it was every week I was seeing my dad for the first time in nine years and I needed to talk to someone about it.
Yeah. And so I watched into that first session and I unloaded you will just say she made so many notes. Wow. And you know, after eight months I was able to taper off into every other week and um, and it, and it, and it can fluctuate sometimes it's every third week. Sometimes it's back to every week. Mm-hmm depending on what I need, but it's so good to have someone who is removed from my family system.
Who has a knowledge and experience to help me learn these tools and for someone to help me have compassion for myself, she knows me recently. I was just meeting with her and she knows how agitated I'm dating about the family holidays. Mm y'all know, this it's difficult, even if you don't have to choose between mom and dad, even just seeing family so difficult.
And it should be such a jolly time of year, but it's not. There's so many emotional expectations and, um, and ideals and everything set on it where it can get so messy. And it's, again, this is recent. My counselor sent me down and she's like, this is not you mm-hmm, let's work on this. Right. And to have someone that knows me and you can call me out of my space and bring me back to what I'm striving to be.
Mm-hmm, , it's beautiful. And it's so safe because we've built that trust. I wish everyone could have that access. And everyone could have that shorty of someone that is in the, their corner, not mom or dad's corner, your corner to challenge you to talk about your goals of who do you wanna be? How can we get there?
What are the biggest things that you're dealing with right now? Mm-hmm I talked to her about everything, right? Nothing is off the table because we've built that trust. Some weeks is said, dude, I will be honest. Some weeks it's it's work right. Some weeks it is, um, my parents or my siblings or whatever it is.
And it's the fact of the matter is like this hurt was done unto you and it affects every facet of your life. It doesn't just affect romantic relationships, not just mother and daughter relationships or with my dad or whatever. I found it, it, it happens to me in the workplace. Mm-hmm right. Where all these different things happen.
I become a doormat and all of a sudden I'm like, wait, mm-hmm , that's not me. So that's one, a second for me is prayer. Faith is a huge part of my life. And being able to delve into that with a creator who creative me out of love and for love combats, that lie that I have of I'm not lovable, cause that's vital for me too.
And that third thing is having, having people who, um, are outside of it. I have a beautiful example of marriage, um, and Noelle and Stan, this wonderful couple. They are not a replacement father and mother. I'm just gonna clarify that they are not, they are my friends and it's an intergenerational friendship because you know, they're older in their forties.
They have adult children. That's. But they are so removed from my family environment that it's so nice to have an outside perspective. Right. I have friends who are from broken families and who are not from broken families, but they're also at my same stage of life. So I strive to not have an echo chamber in my life.
I fully recognize that I can always learn something from someone and Stan and Noel are for me, ways of calling me onward ways of showing me examples, ways of saying you realize you're being crazy right now, right. Hendra, right. To force me to take a step back. Yeah. Because I can get so caught up into things again, I'm opinionated, but also doormat.
So it's like this weird balance where she will call me out and say, you have an opinion, you know, what is it? What do you want versus you need to pack off. You're being a little crazy right now with that guy, Kendra. Right. It's it's a whole gamut of things. Yeah. And to. not just an example of marriage, but have a confidant that is outside of that.
And can they're I'm too close to the painting. This is what one of my dear friends told me, FEDA, Rita, God, rester, soul. You're so close to the painting. 10, you can't see the full picture. You're so focused on the brushstrokes. You don't know what the full image is. And Noel constant re reminds me of that.
Take a step back even, and this is, um, and it's hard because when I become emotionally invested, cause I'm trying to work on this. How do I take a step back without shifting all the way to disengagement mm-hmm mm-hmm and she knows that, um, she's another confidant that I can go to. That is safe. We've built trust mm-hmm right.
And yes, she knows, you know, my parents. Yes. She knows like some siblings and things, but I know she's in my corner and that will call me on to be like that version of myself that I so desperately desire. I love that. One thing that we've talked about before in this show is like a lot of our brokenness in the trauma in our lives has come from relationships.
And that's pretty much always the case for anyone who's been through trauma. And so naturally the antidote is good, beautiful, healthy relationships. And I love that you have the counselor. I love that you have a relationship with God. And also that you have this beautiful, married couple that you can look to to replace the broken model of marriage that you have in your bones.
Like it, it literally goes down to our bones. Like it's kind of insane. It's not just something we can think about and flip on and off. It's literally something that we have to like work out of our systems by replacing with what it should look like, what a marriage should be. And so I love that and I found that super healing as well with I've had a couple couples in my life who.
Um, have done that for me too. And just, just being in their presence is healing. Isn't it? That's just, that's amazing. It's oh, I'm always looking at tickets flying back out to see new Orleans Stan, and you've spent quite a bit of time with them and that's an important point. It's not like when people hear that, they're like, oh, cool.
You've, you know, maybe talked to them on the phone or you've, I don't know, spent a, like, Dinner with them here or there, but no, you're talking like you've spent quite a bit of time with them. Yeah. I would say that our relationship really, really blossomed actually during COVID I had, you know, been seeking.
I was trying to, I was making these big decisions in my life. What do I do? And Noel and I were coworkers. Right. And she just offered, um, me like, Hey, if you wanna take a retreat from the world, right. COVID everything's shut down. I can't go to a retreat center to like, take a step back, take a week off and gather my thoughts and try to figure out what the heck I want from life.
What do I want for myself? She offered me their Airstream, which is sitting in their driveway. Nice. She goes, we won't bother you. We will let you do your silent retreat. You know, here's a car. If you wanna drive to the local church or anything, but like we will deliver meals to your door. What do you need?
Dream service. Nice. It was lovely, but it was the first time someone asked me, what do you need? No one ever asked me that during my parents' divorce. Hmm. It was always, you have to do this for your dad. This is how you love your mom. This is how you do this. She simply said, what do you need? We'll do it. Hmm.
No expectations. So I stayed with him. I did a whole week there and then went back to Minneapolis, Minnesota, as we all know what happened. And end of may, early June, 2020, a lot of turmoil came up in my city and it was just aggravating. Um, this, this piece I'd gotten from that week out in Northern Washington, mm-hmm so immediately flew back and I spent a month there and I lived with them still in the camper, but I, I came inside for meals, but I was able to witness their family tapestry.
I was able to spend a lot of time processing and talking with them. I'm a very external processor. And to be able to talk through scenarios or different things, it was so life giving to learn a different way. I saw how they dealt with conflict, right. There by no means perfect. They will be the first to admit that they are by no means.
Perfect. And I found such a piece there because of the acceptance, the acceptance of me. warts and all, yeah, it was, it was past the, the veneer of everything I was doing at work. Like I said, she was my coworker. Mm-hmm she quickly saw past that and people do people quickly see past it. Do either of them come from broken families.
Just curious, uh, to an extent like their families are intact in terms of marriage, but they've dealt with their own forms of crazy dysfunction. Okay. Dysfunction. I would say the biggest thing that I've learned from them is just because that was an unspoken family. doesn't mean you need to perpetuate it.
Wow. That's I learned that both from them as well as from counseling mm-hmm and when you break a family rule, prep will hit the fan. Yeah, it will. And it will be in the most, um, seemingly lovingly way. It has to be this way or that way, or, wow. You're gonna be ditching someone if you do that. Like how, how is that love?
Aren't you being selfish with your actions? All of this stuff is gonna pop up, but when you have those reference points for me, that's again, no Orleans stand it's my counselor. it's it is Christ to help keep me sane in this tumultuous storm. That's what I've anchored my ship to. That's awesome. Reference points to show you like what's healthy and what's not, which I think is so, so important.
I love what you said about, you know, Noel asking you, like, what do you need? Because so often, um, I mean, that's like tear provoking, like it's beautiful. So often what happens when your family breaks apart? When your parents get divorced or separated, whatever. Your needs are totally forgotten to the point where you feel the need to feel, fill your needs in ways that are not healthy.
Right. And that's exactly what I struggled with, you know, years ago in my life, when it came to struggling with pornography or other unhealthy ways of coping, like isolating myself, things like that, it was all an attempt to fill, like in real need that I had in a really crappy way. And, but it's all you knew.
Right? And I think that's what happens so often is like, we're just left on our own to fill our own needs. And that's often where that fierce independence comes from. And so it's so beautiful that someone asked you, like, what do you need? Like, it's such a simple phrase, but it's like, man, so, so beautiful.
Um, so much we can talk about, I do wanna ask you if you can contrast your life years ago to now, uh, what is different in, in a few words, like what what's different, how, how has it gotten better? And I know you're still working through. Stuff as we all are, but yeah. How is life different for you now? Right.
Like I, I mentioned at the beginning, this is the hardest story ever, but it doesn't set me off right. Emotionally to be able to discuss or look back on it. And again, I attribute a lot of this through counseling to give me the tools to be able to do this. I know so much more about my natural virtues and vices.
I know so much more about my inclinations and my brokenness of thi of wounds that I've done of wounds others have done on to me. Right. It's both. And, but I now like have learned tools to deal with the difficulties. I still mess up. I still feel absolutely I can analyze breathe and, and an attempt to like solve a situation.
But I'm actually able to use these tools from counseling to like take a step back mm-hmm . And I have that space where I I've been able to grow in self knowledge. And to me that's the most powerful type of knowledge. Why is that so helpful? So does someone listening, they might hear you say things like.
Self knowledge. And I didn't mean to cut you off. I think this is important. They hear you say things like self knowledge. They hear you say things like compassion to yourself. Someone might be like, that's kind of like this flaky kind of touchy, feely, touchy, feely. Oh, wait I with my emotions again, right?
Yeah. Right. So, so why is that? So on a practical level, like why is that so important to know yourself? Why is this so important to have compassion to yourself? Well, those are two separate questions. I would say fair. So self knowledge is important because when you start to learn more about yourself, you can start to reflect on different situations and your trigger points.
You can start to build that environment and boundaries that help make you feel safe and secure, where you don't lash out right at a family gathering. Why? Because you did a workout that morning, or you were able to take that alone time, or you're able to nip an argument in the bud. Someone gave you some critical feedback and you have a right.
You've learned to say, feedback is a gift. It doesn't mean you have to do something about it. Mm-hmm and you say to that person, thanks for that advice. I can, I appreciate that. You care. Yeah. And then you say, you know what, I'm gonna go for a walk. Right. And you might need some space to like, deal with that, knowing that you need that space is self knowledge.
Okay. Right. And then you can deal with more difficult situations. You can learn to build those boundaries where you don't feel like you're in survival mode where you don't go into blocking out emotions. Like, as we said, we were numb in high school. Totally. Right. You learn those different tools and that's right.
It's so vital because you know more about yourself. You then learn what you need. So you can give mm-hmm and giving is how you build a relationship. And that vulnerability and emotional intimacy, I can build a relationship with my father, without him being my confidant. And it's hard to get to that point.
And it's hard to think about that, cuz he's my dad. He. Ought to be the one protecting his little princess. Right? Sure. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. And so self knowledge is so, so powerful. It's so foundational. So basically what it's helped you do if I'm hearing you right. Is it it's helped you learn to navigate these really challenging situations without blowing up without melting down without becoming numb.
It's helped you in short to become a better you and happier you and a more whole you, the best version of myself. There you go. Right. And again, I'm, there are a lot of times where I still mess up, right where I leave an interaction with a family member and I'm like, shoot, I really, really mess that up. And I knew I was doing it in the moment, but if I can reflect back on it, I can see what my trigger points were.
Mm-hmm um, and so then I can start to reflect. The next best thing would be. I start to recognize it in the moment of like, wow, I am actively needling my sister right now. Right. Because I am feeling unsafe for whatever reason. Mm-hmm and sometimes that could be as simple as I didn't eat right before I talked to her.
Totally. Right. I'm just way more hangry. Yeah. So don't call someone when you're angry. Right. It's so it's as simple as that for me, right. To a much more complex and situational thing. Right? Sure. Sure. It's through that self knowledge where then I. One reflect, see where I messed up two. Maybe I can recognize it in the moment.
And then you hopefully build up two. You can recognize it before it happens so you can prevent it. And that's why it's so powerful. Yeah. No, that's it. That makes so much sense. And then the compassion portion of it, it kind of goes hand in hand, but what, uh, what else would you add? I guess to that question, if someone's thinking like, that sounds so corny, why is it actually really helpful and good?
This is something that I've been working on this past year with my counselor, right. Where she's like, you need to have compassion for yourself and I'm sitting there like, why , why is this so vital? Yeah. But it's, it's vulnerability. It's learning that emotional intimacy and it's learning how to. forgive myself and what I mean by forgive myself.
It's forgive myself for when I look back and I see all the ways I messed up, right with my dad, with my siblings, with my little sister, with my mom, with friends around me again, I was an angry mean person and very calm, cool, and collected where I made it seem like it was your fault. You were exploding. I needed to have compassion.
That that was all I knew. I need to be able to look back and like engage with my 14 year old self of like, Hey babe, it's okay. It's not your fault that your parents divorced. It's not your fault. You feel unloved. It's not your fault. You feel so lost. And that's where that compassion is vital because I'm then engaging my emotions and I'm engaging my heart.
I'm learning to forgive myself because if I can do that, I can start to learn to forgive others too. Like the difficult others, not the easy others. Sure. The difficult ones that involve lot more of your emotional capacity. Wow. That's important. That's not some corny, phony thing. That's really key. And I think when it comes to healing trauma, that seems to be one of the core tenets of any sort of trauma therapy is that you'd come to some level of giving yourself grace.
Maybe that's a different way of putting it, right? It's like, you're, you're kind of letting yourself off the hook in some ways in inappropriate ways, right? You're saying like, man, it it's understandable that you acted this way. It's understandable that you did these things and it's helpful when you have compassion for yourself.
And sometimes, you know, it can flow one way or another. For me, I needed compassion for self first, before I could have compassion for others. Again, the others that really hurt me deeply, not the easy others. mm-hmm right. And so for others, it's through compassion through those hard situations that they can then have compassion for themselves.
But for me, as I said, I locked down my emotions. It was the last thing I was gonna touch. Cuz it was messy. No one was gonna hurt me again. I will not be vulnerable. That's why it's been one of the hardest steps for me. Okay. But then I can look back and I can see my parents and I can see. Wow. You guys were both brought up in alcohol at.
you both dealt with to dependent, you know, behaviors in terms of communication and you perpetuated that in your own family, cuz that's what you knew. Mm-hmm and to have compassion for them at that time, I know I'm throwing around a lot of counseling terms and a, and a lot of alcoholism terms, um, because it's the way I analyze right where it is through logic.
And stopping and removing myself from the situation, whether it's taking a walk or hanging up the phone, not mad in a mad way. Right. And taking a space and reflecting where I can see, okay, this is the reality of the situation. This is what they knew. How can I move on? Wow. You've grown so much. That's beautiful to see.
And I admire you for sticking with it. I think that, and alone is like an act of courage and it says so much about a person. So bra, blah, anything else to add when it comes to how your life is different? Before we move on the last part for me again, this past year was, was moving. So we'd moved my senior year.
I wasn't, as I said, in relationship with my dad anymore, my mom was back and forth, you know, between different states, moving around, doing her thing. And my siblings were in all different states. And I love Minnesota with huge passion. Right? I love everything about it. There's so many good memories there. I did not realize how healing also how scary it was to move to a different state.
Not because a college brought you there. Right because community is right there from the get go, but to have a different start outside of that, again, we've moved my senior year. I was four hours away from my dad. I was not in that small town anymore, but being able to move to Colorado and to create that space of like, what do I want out of life?
Who do I want to be? These are constant questions. I asked myself even 13 years later after this, the first separation, right? Yeah. It was so vital to have that space where I can learn, what do I want? Right. When Noel asked me, what do you need? I had no idea. I didn't know how to answer. I'm always worried about like helping everyone else.
Right. You put others' needs over here. Right? And so you have to be able to engage yourself to do that. And so I had that space and I'd been working on this and I'd been out of college and I'd been doing all these things, but being able to move. Oh, my goodness. It was, it was another, a way to, to, to learn autonomy, right.
And to learn how to connect with my family, because I had my own little den. Right. I had my own way of an, an area where I, I still felt safe and secure where I can engage in more difficult relationships where I I'm texting my dad. Now I would not have been able to do that if there was ever a thing of just drive up and Sue me for dinner right there.
There's none of that pressure. Yeah. And so for me, that was the right decision to do. And you've been able to at least learn better how to navigate your relationship with your mom. You've gotten, you know, things aren't perfect by any means neither with your dad or your mom, but yeah, because I'm not perfect.
There you go. I love that, but that's really, I think that's a beautiful and powerful change in your life too. You know, it went from maybe acting out emotionally to now you're able to engage your parents in a respectful way, but also retain your boundaries. Not fall into like old patterns. Right. I can text my dad about hunting or about guns or about wildlife.
Right. I text my mom about home improvement projects I'm doing or about my faith. Right. There's different ways I can connect with them without feeling like I'm sacrificing myself for the sake of connection. That's awesome. If your parents were sitting here with us right now or were listening, let's say to this podcast episode, uh, it's a big question.
It's probably the most difficult question I've asked so far. What, what would you say to them? What would you say to your mom? What would you say to your. I love you first and foremost. And if I need space, please let me have it. And it doesn't mean I don't love you when I need to go for a walk or I need to remove myself from something, or I seem to emotionally shut down because there are times when I cannot give.
And if I'm backed into that, that corner and you want something from me immediately, and you need this and you don't realize you're doing it, and I'm trying to give better signs and ways of communicating. Like, if I can have that space, I can love you better rather than responding out of being scared or angry or vulnerable, and I'm not ready for it.
And someone forced me into this, right. Because I know they have the best intentions, but it's to let me have space because it's hard already navigating a divorce. It's also hard learning how to become an adult and having that autonomy in your family. My family's a very enmeshed family. And so to be able to allow me to have that space to operate, it's not being, being selfish.
It's actually me loving you better. Beautiful. Thank you so much. I'm gonna give you the last word, um, before I do just thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for sharing a lot of intimate details of your story. Um, it's powerful and I know a lot of people listening can totally relate with you.
So thank you so much. You have the last word. What would you say to someone right now? Who's listening, who feels broken, who feels stuck in life because of the trauma they've endured, especially from their broken family. What, what would you, what encouragement, what advice would you give to that person?
It's okay. If you're not at a space to give. And it's okay to receive from others. You are not in charge of anyone else first and foremost, you need to get yourself in order, right? And there's different paths for people as you delve through that, your duties. And first and foremost are to yourself because you cannot give what you cannot have.
Find your counselor, build a relationship delve into self knowledge. As I said, it's the most powerful type of knowledge to have. And to remember like the only thing you can control is yourself. The only thing you can work on and to strive in is yourself. And always remember the serenity prayer, God grant me the serenity to accept the things.
I cannot change the courage to change the things that I can and the wisdom to know difference.
Absolutely love the question that Noel asks, Kendra, what do you need? I think it's really profound and that's something I wanna invite you to think about, to chew on, to reflect on what do you need. In other words, what are you lacking in your life? That if you had, it would bring real, genuine peace, freedom, and happiness.
What do you need? Because the truth is if you don't fill your legitimate needs in healthy ways, what we tend to do is fill them in unhealthy ways, which leads to a lack of peace, a lack of freedom and a lack of happiness. And so give that some thought, what do you need in the conversation? My new book came up.
So I just wanna tell you a little bit about that. If you haven't heard about it, it's called. It's not your fault. A practical guide to navigating the pain and problems from your parents force. It features 33 questions and answers on the most pressing challenges faced by teens and young adults from broken families.
If you wanna buy it, or you just wanna get the first chapters for free, you can go to restored ministry.com/books. Again, restored ministry, ministry, singular.com/books. If you wanna share your story on our blog like Kendra did, like I mentioned, at the start of the show, you can do that. It's really simple.
Three simple steps go to restored ministry.com/story. You can just fill out the form on that page. It's really a simple form that will guide you in telling a short version of your story. And then we'll turn that into an anonymous. Blog article. Now, some of the benefits to doing that, reflecting on your story, through the process of writing it out is actually healing on neural biological level.
It makes your brain healthier and writing your story, the act of writing your story, not just reflecting on it is also healing. There have been studies that have shown that people who write about emotionally significant events in their lives are less depressed. They're less anxious, they're healthier.
And they're happier going beyond just reflecting and writing out your story. Sharing your story with someone else is also healing on a neuro biological love. And lastly, your story, the struggles you've overcome, the struggles you've endured can give someone else hope, especially someone who's going through what you've been through right now.
It could give them some guidance and give them some hope, especially if they feel hopeless. And so if you wanna share your story, we'd love to hear it. We'd love to receive your story@restoredministry.com slash story. The resources mentioned during the show notes at restored ministry. Dot com slash 57.
Thank you so much for listening. If this has been useful for you, feel free to subscribe. And if you know someone who's struggling from the effects of their appearance, divorce, or broken marriage, share this podcast with them. Always remember you are not alone. We're here to help you feel whole again and become the person that you are born to be.
