#143: When Your Divorced Parent Dies: Grieving, Healing, & Closure | Ben
After a relapse into alcoholism, Ben’s mom left him, his family, and the country for years when he was just 5 years old. When she returned, he struggled in his relationship with her but placed proper boundaries and found some resolution. But his mom’s death in Ben’s late 20s brought new pain.
In this episode, you’ll hear his wild story, plus:
The resolution he experienced with his mom and an unexpected tactic that’s helped him heal after his mom’s death
The place of justice, mercy, and blame after your parents’ divorce
How he was skeptical of marriage and what taught him that a good family is possible
If you’re struggle in your relationship with mom or a parent died without you resolving things with them, this episode is for you.
Get Dakota’s FREE guide: The Biggest Fitness Mistakes to Avoid
Email Ben: benjamin.pluta@focus.org
Links & Resources
Full Disclaimer: If you purchase through the links on this page, your purchase will support Restored at no additional cost to you. Thank you!
To leave feedback, comment below or contact us.
Enjoy the show?
To be notified when new episodes go live, subscribe below.
As a bonus, you'll receive the first chapters from our book, It's Not Your Fault: A Practical Guide to Navigating the Pain and Problems from Your Parents' Divorce.
TRANSCRIPT
Transcript produced by artificial intelligence. Please pardon any errors!
Ben: [00:00:00] My parents divorced when I was pretty young. I was I think five years old. My parents met an Alcoholics Anonymous. My dad's been sober for like 40 years. My mom had been sober for a significantly less amount of time. They started this relationship and my mom like relapsed right around the time that I was like between two and three years old.
And so, not only did she, she relapse, she relapse like really hard, and while she was relapsing, she was having like a lot of other mental health crises. My mom, I think, was the one who ultimately said, you know, I gotta go, I'm out, I'm leaving. And my dad just couldn't do anything about it. It really hurts that she just, like, completely abandoned me.
I think getting stuck being the victim, that is, like, such a huge temptation. And I think that when you get hooked on blame, you're just taking away all of your own power to, like, heal, you know?
Joey (2): Welcome to The Restored Podcast. I'm Joey Panarelli. If you come from a divorced or [00:01:00] broken family, this show is for you.
We help you heal your brokenness, navigate all the challenges, and build healthy relationships so you can break that cycle and build a better life. My guest today is Ben. He studied theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville, where he met his wife and was introduced to Focus, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students.
After graduating, he married his wife and the two of them became Focus missionaries in Alabama, where they spent four years leading Bible studies and mentoring college students. In 2020, They moved to Pennsylvania and continue to mentor young adults and lead multiple ministries at the church at their parish.
Ben has four kids and two beehives. I'm excited for you guys to hear Ben's story. After a relapse into alcoholism, Ben's mom left him, his family and the country for years when he was just five years old. When she returned, as you can imagine, he struggled in his relationship with her, but he eventually placed some proper boundaries in place and found some resolution.
But his mom's death in Ben's late twenties brought new pain into his life. And in this episode, You'll hear his kind of wild story. Plus, uh, the resolution that he experienced with his mom and unexpected tactic that's [00:02:00] helped him heal. After his mom's death, we discussed justice, mercy, and whether blame is fruitful or not after your parents divorce, he talks about how he was skeptical of marriage and what taught him that a good marriage, a good family.
Actually possible. And then we talk about that, the four characters we all play in life. And so if you struggle in your relationship with your mom, or maybe a parent died without you resolving things with them, this episode is for you with that. Here's our heavy, but good conversation. Ben welcome in. So good to have you here.
Ben: Thank you.
Joey (2): Yeah, I've been looking forward to this. I, um, know a little bit of your story from a distance, uh, just being honest and I was really, I'm really excited to kind of go into a little bit more. So like we usually do, we'll just dive right in. What was life like in the years and months before your parents split?
Ben: Well, my, uh, my parents divorced when I was pretty young. I was, I think, five years old when my parents divorced. So, I don't have, like, a lot of experiential memories from that time. I [00:03:00] don't have a lot of memories. I have very few memories of that time, like, at all, actually. Almost all of the things that I can remember, my earliest memories, come after the divorce.
But, you know, Recently, I have been able to go through some home videos, and I got a, a box of pictures from my mom a couple years ago, and, you know, you can, you can sort of, like, pick out details from the videos and the pictures and everything like that, and, you know, I've heard stories from my, from my dad, I've heard stories from my mom and from her sisters about what kind of a person she was like and what their, what my dad and her relationship was like, so, basically, You know, at the beginning, when you look at pictures or like home videos from, you know, when my parents are first together, still deeply in love, all those kinds of things.
I'm like one years old. My mom is just very, yeah, she's, she's pretty. She's got long hair, she's taking care of herself, she's, in the home [00:04:00] videos she laughs a lot, she's like, getting outside and she's active and she's like, doing things, there's this one home video where she's like, making a birdhouse for a bird and my dad says something like, There's Jenny, always looking out for the less fortunate, you know, so you just tell that they were, uh, my mom is in a really good place, and my dad, Was in love with her.
Um, at least I can, I could tell that and You know My mom had this like really big Mental health, like, meltdown, basically, around the time that I was two years old. My parents actually met, from what I understand, my parents met in Alcoholics Anonymous. My dad's been sober for, like, 40 years. My mom had been sober for a significantly less amount of time.
So they met in Alcoholics Anonymous, they started this relationship, and my mom, like, relapsed. Right around the time that I was, like, between two and three years old. And so, not only did she, she relapse, she relapse, like, really hard. [00:05:00] And while she was relapsing, she was having, like, a lot of other mental health crises.
Like, she was diagnosed with bipolar and schizophrenia, and her world just really, like, collapsed in a big way when I was, like, between the ages of two and three. And so, As you're watching, like, the home videos, you slowly start to see more and more of that, like, pop up, where My mom seems to be gaining weight and at some point like she chops her hair off Which is like wouldn't have been normal behavior for her, you know You can tell she's just stops taking care of herself.
Her voice gets like duller and flatter This is one video where she says something like I'm happy to be home I love my family and I'm glad I'm home and what she's referring to is like She was in jail for a couple days due to a DUI, things like that. I remember a lot more like refereeing, a lot more fights.
I can remember sometimes refereeing fights and I remember my mom leaving a lot at night. I didn't quite [00:06:00] understand then but she was out going out to go get drunk with her friends. My dad was honestly still I mean, so my dad had been through all that, too. He was an alcoholic, he had recovered. So he tried to be as understanding as possible, but at the end of the day, it was just very difficult for him to convince my mom to stay, actually.
Um, my mom, I think, was the one who ultimately said, you know, I gotta go. I'm out. I'm leaving. And my dad just couldn't do anything about it, you know, her, her mental health was just driving her in a direction that he just knew he couldn't really do anything about it. So, and that's kind of the, it happened pretty quickly, you know, I was two and a half when my mom relapsed and had her mental health crises and I was like five when my parents divorced.
So, in the course of like two years, two and a half years, everything unraveled. And so it was just a progressively more chaotic environment i think [00:07:00] particularly for my dad you know i was very young so i don't know how much i picked up on it i mean i'm sure i did a lot but for my dad who was just trying to he was really trying to keep everything together and keep her home and try to make her stay but he couldn't at the end so
Joey (2): man what a heavy thing to carry the kid.
And even, even that scene, like that image of you, like, referring fights as like, what, a four year old?
Ben: Yeah.
Joey (2): Like, what the heck?
Ben: We don't swear, Dad. Don't say those words. You know, just like that kind of stuff. Yeah.
Joey (2): Yeah. No, and I've seen that play out in situations that I've been Yeah, man, that is so rough. I, um, gosh, and I can't imagine, you know, what all of them are going through, like all of you kind of having like your own unique experience in pain, like your mom too, you know, it's just like so rough, not, not to excuse the behavior at all, but it's like, my goodness, like what sort of pain and trauma and brokenness and, you know, her life, which would have led her down that path again.
That's super, super rough. And we don't have to go into that if you're not comfortable, but, [00:08:00] um, yeah, just like it kind of sucks all around.
Ben: Yeah, I mean you don't, you know, you generally don't have giant mental health crises unless you yourself have been hurt deeply by somebody, you know, and I mean This is probably pretty familiar to anybody like basically familiar with The idea of broken families is that, of course, my mom came from a broken family too, and people in my mom's family struggled with alcoholism and mental health issues, and she wasn't entirely protected from the darkness of what happens in the world, you know, and so, I mean, part of my having to deal with it as a, as an adult is trying to wrestle with the fact that, you know, during those five years, My mom hurt me a lot, but I had to wrestle with the fact that she was also really hurt a lot.
Like how much culpability can you, I guess, assign her and how much can you excuse it? It's, that's the kind of difficulties that, that come with, with dealing with it now. [00:09:00]
Joey (2): I remember, um, father John Burns saying that the Latin word for. Mercy, misericordia, literally means, you know, to just have a heart for the misery of the other, right?
Joey: To be
Joey (2): moved by the misery of the other, and like that being kind of a prerequisite to forgiveness. But it's kind of a scary place to be, like to, you know, go into that and ask that question, like, What were they going through that caused them to do this thing that was wrong? Like, we're not excusing that by any means, but, yeah.
It's such a tough thing to go through, but it sounds like you've had to wrestle with that a lot.
Ben: Yeah, I mean, you know, in the, in the years after the divorce, I mean, that's, Basically what I ended up growing up with after my parents divorced my mom went to like England for a couple years And I don't exactly know what she was how she was surviving or really what she was doing actually But when she came back, I was I was getting older and just asking a lot of you know I was realizing how awful it was that my parents were divorced and how sad I was about it.
[00:10:00] And, you know, it was the question of like, how much blame do I put on my mom? Like, how much can I put was a question I asked myself a lot. And I think my tendency as a person is generally to not assign a lot of blame to people. I was significantly more merciful to her, but, but it's not like the right kind of mercy all the time necessarily, you know, like, I think that I was significantly more, I just had a proclivity to like totally absolve her of all wrongdoing sometimes, you
Joey (2): know, like
Ben: that was just something that
Joey (2): I did.
I've struggled with that too. I remember when my parents first split, yeah, just like, especially wanting to not believe essentially that my dad had any sort of part in it or any sort of responsibility for it because I looked up to him so much and kind of related to the other end of it. But I'm curious.
I have a couple of questions about the blame thing. Where have you come with that? Like, what are your thoughts on that if someone maybe is listening right now and they're wrestling with [00:11:00] that too? Like, do I? Blame my parents? Do I not? Do I absorb it? Do I give them part blame? Like, where have you landed with that?
Ben: Yeah, it's uh, okay, well, another, another thing to point out, I, my, my mom passed away a couple years ago, so my mom passed away about two and a half years ago, so I was dealing with it a lot, like two and a half years ago, because, you know, when somebody dies, you kind of You're forced to like reckon with their life story like that's that's what you do when somebody dies is you try to Understand their life story and figure out what kind of put some finality on like, okay, what did this person mean to me?
How did this person affect my life? Like how do I want to carry this person on with me? And so obviously it engenders a lot of this kind of reflection and I thought about the blame thing a lot And it was just really it was really hard the way that I have described it Is that it feels like trying to fit a fitted sheet over a mattress, but the fitted sheet is just too small.
[00:12:00] And so it's like, you put the two corners of the fitted sheet over the mattress and then you pull it one way. And as soon as you're about to like, cover the whole mattress, this side like, flings out at you. And it's like, That's what I felt like with my mom and still sometimes what I feel like where it's like, okay I blame her like she was a bad person and she did terrible things to me and she did terrible things to my dad And she just, in general, lived a very bad life, and so I blame her, so I put like the, but then it's like, I put the she on that side of the mattress, the blame side of the mattress, but then I realized, like, but she still was really hurt, and she still had all of her stuff, and, you know, the way that she made me feel, Other people made her feel maybe even ten times worse.
And so then you try to like pull it and try to get it all together and then the other side just slaps off. And so you like, to me, it's like really hard to wrap my mind around like the whole situation, the whole mattress, so to speak. [00:13:00] And I don't really I think that I basically landed on it is ultimately not my job to make a definitive, like, blame or not blame judgment.
That I can recognize the fact that she hurt me and she hurt my dad and I can appreciate that and validate that fact and say, yes, this is true. And I can also say she herself was very hurt by her parents and by other people. And so I can validate both of those things and you don't have to put all of the chips in One of those sides of the table, you know, like you don't have to say it was all the people who heard her Or it was just all her fault.
Like you can, I've tried to stay comfortable with the tension that comes about by saying, yep, she was really hurt. And also she really hurt me. Um, and just live in that tension and try not to have to follow it [00:14:00] one way or the other, make a judgment, try not to make a judgment about it. And I think that's been really helpful for me just to, to kind of.
Take a deep breath and let it just not be a problem whether she should be blamed or not blamed. You know, just let it be like it was a fact that she hurt me and I can deal with that and also accept the fact that she was hurt by others as well. Yeah. You know what I mean? I do, yeah. That's what I try to do nowadays.
Joey (2): And this has been something that has been a kind of a struggle for me. I'd love your further thoughts, but I wanted to kind of chime in, um, you know, I've, I've kind of had this conversation with myself and maybe even my siblings of like, you know, it was dad, this percentage of blame and mom, this was this percentage of blame.
And I think you're right at the end of the day, it is somewhat of like a fruitless exercise to try to like perfectly calculate and assign blame. Um, and I think it does, it can lead to like a lot of bitterness at the same time, what you said, well, of like, speak the facts. Thanks. Just, like, state the facts.
There's, like, something good and freeing [00:15:00] about that, too, of, like, not hiding from it, not pretending it wasn't that way, but just, like, stating the facts. This is what my life was like. This is probably why my mom acted this way. Um, this is why things ended up being this way. And that, that sucked. Like, that was bad.
That was harmful. No child should have to go through that. So, so I, I like what you said about, like, that tension. And I was thinking, too, about What's the purpose of assigning blame? And I think in the, you know, I think of like the justice system, it's like in the justice system, the purpose of assigning blame, assigning guilt, we could say is trying to figure out what the, I guess, penalty will be in order to bring some sort of like recompense or recovery or compensation, whatever that might look like to the person who was hurt.
And so I think in this situation, especially if we're looking at it through like the lens of like mercy and forgiveness, which, you know, obviously goes like beyond justice, I don't think we need to be as like exact in calculating. What do you think about that?
Ben: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to especially the mercy and forgiveness part, like there's a certain sense in which calculation is kind of like the enemy of mercy.
I think that's [00:16:00] absolutely true. Where if you are, if you are keeping score and you're saying, well, okay, if you're saying this person, Really owes me this but i'm willing and have like a precise Calculated like this person owes me that but i'm willing to forgive that. Um, I I don't know if that is particularly Merciful.
Um, I think what what true mercy comes down to is like You know, i'm going to forgive you and extend my mercy to you regardless of how much blame you have, you know, like You and I are just we're okay, you know, like Whatever, like the, the count was, the count is no longer there anymore. And I think that if you keep that count, I think that can be truly an enemy of mercy.
And I think that's true for anybody, whether it's like dealing with your parents, dealing with a spouse, dealing with friends, like when you start keeping the scorecard, you just get a lot less merciful. [00:17:00] Um, it just, you stop, you stop extending that mercy. I also think a big part of the reason why we want to like be able to clearly Assign blame to one person or the other is because, you know, we're, we're humans and one of the things that we humans really like is having a nice, clear, neat narrative, you know, like we really like the nice stories of the most timeless stories have clear good guys and clear bad guys.
And that's it. Right. And we like to make sense of our lives. In terms of that, we like to make sense of our lives, and assigning blame is a really good way of just making our narratives nice and neat. Like, if I just blamed my mom, and I just said, Yep, it was her problem and her fault, and she was a bad person, and because she was a bad person, my parents marriage failed, and because she was a bad person, the beginning of my life was totally screwed up, blah blah blah, then it would be an easy story.
To [00:18:00] go with, but it wouldn't be like the true story, and I think because it wouldn't really be a true story, it wouldn't allow me to actually heal, to actually become a better, holier person, it would actually stunt my growth, and stunt my ability to interact with reality, so I think part of the whole situation is being able to step back and say, the narrative, the story, I am a player in that story, And the story goes way beyond me, you know, and I can't, I am not going to be able to connect all of the dots from like a God's eye view, you know, I have to be content to know and trust that the story does make sense in some cosmological way, and that I just can't know everything about it.
I love that. I think those, those are the two reasons really why we blame people is like. I think we want to be able to like, like you said, know exactly what is out us and we want to have a really clear narrative, but I don't think that either [00:19:00] of those things are particularly helpful for living your life, you know,
Joey (2): yeah, you're so right to point out that life is messier than.
The stories that we see in here, there often isn't like a clear resolution and, you know, in stories, there's like four characters, right? There's the hero, the protagonist, there's the, the villain, the one who's like the antagonist trying to stop them. Um, but then there's also these two other characters.
There's the guide who's helping the hero. And then there's also the victim, the people in the story who kind of are like helpless, powerless. And I think What I hear you saying is that if we get stuck on blame, if we get stuck on blame, there's a high likelihood that we're going to just turn into the victim.
And if we turn into the victim, then what happens from there is I know well, cause I've struggled with this is that we just start blaming our parents or our past for every wrong thing in our life and never take any ownership and never start working towards like, you know, maybe I didn't cause that thing to happen, but I could take ownership of the solution.
I could take ownership of like my life right now today. And I could, you know, solve the problems that I'm faced with, uh, [00:20:00] to a degree I can. And so I think, I think that's like a real danger. And I just want to put one caveat in there too. I think, you know, in the process of forgiveness, I've heard people say, Father Mike Schmitz talks about this, how, you know, there is a point to like counting the costs, but I see.
But the blame thing is like almost like getting obsessive with that as like taking that too far, not just counting the cost in order to forgive the person and free them of their debt. But kind of, yeah, like you said, being a little bit more like scorekeeper, you know, you hurt me this much. Therefore, like I deserve this.
Ben: Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's a really, that's such a tight rope to walk. You want to be able to admit that people did you wrong, but also not get too wrapped up in it. I don't know how to do that. I don't, I mean, I don't have the
Joey (2): perfect balance either,
Ben: but yeah, I think, I think getting stuck being the victim, that is like such a huge temptation.
And I think that when you get hooked on blame, you end up doing that. And then you're just taking away all of your own power
Joey (2): to like, heal, you know, no, I love that. And I'm glad to are going into this. One other thing I was thinking of was [00:21:00] how the home videos seem to have impacted you. Talk about that a little bit.
Like, what was it like watching those? Do you recommend people do that or yeah, I'm just curious kind of going back and kind of understanding your past even before like you said at the beginning Maybe you have like that explicit cognitive memory of what happened with you Even though it's kind of like baked into your bones into your you know subconscious.
Ben: Yeah, it was uh, it was a really It was a really bittersweet experience to go back and watch those home videos because Some of it just really sucked. I mean some of it was just like it is really Not fun, like the videos that were closer like during her mental collapse Basically, it was really not fun to watch that.
It was like not fun to See her that way. Um, it was also kind of not fun to see that like There was once a time where my mom was like, super functional and happy [00:22:00] and in love and stuff. And it was not really fun to watch that, like, transform into what I saw in the later videos. It wasn't fun. I mean, it there were, but it was good.
It was, like I think it was really important stuff for me to see, because it helped me, I guess, fill in the blanks a little bit, about, well, what was my mom actually like, and also, what was she, what was this process like for her, what was it like for my dad, what was it probably like for me as a kid, you know, even though I technically experienced it, I don't remember much of it, so like, I was able to watch myself, and how, like, I was able to learn about how I, Was reacting to things by watching those videos, you know, and that was I think that was informative too So it just helped me get a lot of perspective on it and you know, I think another thing that it did help me do was Recognize that there were a lot of good things, you know, and that was something that my mom [00:23:00] talked about later in my life like Before she passed away was just like, you know She was like obviously things didn't work out between me and your dad But I want you to know that like it was really good for a while, you know, like it wasn't just Garbage, but like we really did love each other And she really wanted me to know that like I had come out of a relationship of love And even though that relationship was like kind of corrupted Or, you know, even though that relationship was eventually broke down, I should say, that the relationship that I came out of was a really loving relationship and it was good for me to look back and say, yeah, that's true.
Um, it was a loving relationship that I came out of, um, that I was produced by, you know? Um, so that, I think that was really helpful for me. That was probably the most helpful thing for me to see was just like, they were in love. I had never seen that before. I had never known, [00:24:00] truly, that my dad was in love with my mom or vice versa.
Like, I had never cognized, like, recognized that fact. So being able to go back and look at old videos, you know, is bittersweet. The bitter was, it's not like that anymore. And it wasn't that way for very long, but the sweet was that there was something there that was good and human and beautiful.
Joey (2): I love that.
And I appreciate you going there because I think, like, so much of what you said makes a lot of sense to me. Like, the self knowledge that comes from kind of understanding our family and our past is powerful. Like, it helps us understand, like, why we think, feel, and act the way that we do. And then especially if there's parts of our lives that we're not super proud of, we want to change, I think there is power in, like, being able to over transform.
through understanding like the why behind why you do that thing, whether it's an addiction, a bad habit, something like that. So I think the self knowledge is really powerful, but kind of scary. I remember years ago, my dad has bipolar disease and um, he was in hospital and uh, just in a tough spot [00:25:00] struggling and.
I was trying to get him some help. I saw that the kind of typical conventional treatment of like, you know, whatever they did in the psych hospital, like meds and shock therapy and whatever else, like wasn't really doing the trick. This is, it had been like, I don't know how many times back to the same spot.
And so I was like, there has to be another way. So I, you know, looked into trauma therapy and found this awesome trauma therapist who we now work with through restored, but, um, as part of helping him, I went through and like created a timeline of his life and obviously it impact, it was like somewhat of a timeline of my life too, seeing kind of like the ways in which he.
You know, like kind of what life had thrown at him without going into it too much and, um, it was really instructive. It's kind of painful, but instructive. And it led me to a place of like a lot more compassion for him, but also kind of a better understanding of myself. Like, wow, okay, this is where I come from.
This is what was going on in my, you know, grandparents family. This is going on in my dad's life as a young person. This is what happened, you know, around the time when my parents were getting married and, Dating and getting married and then like early family life and all of that. And it was really, really eyeopening.
[00:26:00] Again, not the easiest stuff to swallow, but I do think that I do think it's helpful. So I'm curious if you have any advice for everyone listening, do you think it's worth going back to that stuff and digging it up? What would you say? Yeah.
Ben: Yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's absolutely worth it. I think that it's vulnerable certainly, but it's.
I would certainly recommend revisiting those old memories, and those old pictures, and those old videos, and just facing all of that to help understand. And you know, there are, there are some pictures that I have of my parents that I like. From the olden days that I like keep around and use as bookmarks, you know?
Or old pictures of, like, her and me when I was, like, real young, like, two, and she's just very happy, and we're in a pumpkin patch or something, and I just try to keep them around just to have something good. To remember that helps me under just like go back to the fact that it's just more complex [00:27:00] than, you know, it's just a more complex situation.
Um, there's good and bad in between. I think it's a great idea. I think that there's also a lot of it helps you. I did do therapy for a little bit for, for these kinds of things. And, and a lot of what we did was I forget like the technical name for it, but it was, it's like when you remember something, but you're trying to like, take all of the negative emotions that are associated with the memory and sort of just like diffuse them or change them.
Like, I remember my. My therapist, uh, was in college. He literally, it was like, it has something to do with REM. I'm totally butchering this, but like, Something about
Joey (2): REM, sorry? EMDR, maybe rapid eye, the eye movement therapy? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Ben: Yeah, it's, it's the rapid eye movement for sure. And there's something about that that is connected with like, Our memories and our emotions and so like he would give me these two little things and he would literally just like rapidly move the vibrations that I was holding [00:28:00] so it would vibrate on my right hand and then my left hand and somehow that like gets your body into like the emotional connection with memories
Joey (2): thing.
Nice.
Ben: Don't exactly know how it works and so then you would re go through your memories and if you had a bad one something that was causing like a wound or a trauma in your psychological life now you could go back and kind of like. Walk yourself through that memory and try to change your emotional perspective on it and it would help you in your real life.
And anyway, whether you're doing the technical part of it or not, I think just going back and trying to encounter like the home videos and the pictures. And revisit all those bad memories, all of those things that ultimately are traumatic and hurt you, and try to achieve a new openness about them, and through that openness, alter the way that you feel, or like, alter the way that you look at them, or your perspective towards them, I think that that would go a long way in [00:29:00] helping anybody overcome, like, The hurdles of trauma in their day to day life now,
Joey (2): you know.
If you, like me, come from a broken family, you've probably experienced a lot of difficult emotions and it's easy to deal with them in unhealthy ways. But one healthy habit that's helped me, working out consistently and eating how my body was made to be fed. It keeps my body healthy and the endorphins help me feel happier and better navigate tough emotions.
But I know it's not easy to start exercising or to be more consistent with it. You might be thinking, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no time. I'm too unmotivated. That's why I trust and recommend Dakota Lane. He's a nationally certified fitness and nutrition coach who's helped a thousand plus clients from beginners to even pro athletes.
As a devout Catholic, he creates personalized fitness and nutrition plans with 24 7 support and one on one coaching. And since it's all online, you can literally work with Dakota anywhere in the world. One client said, Dakota changed my life. His program is worth every penny. If you've struggled to change yourself for the better, Dakota is your man.
To see what Dakota offers, go to [00:30:00] dakota Lane fitness.com. Dakota is actually giving away for free his PDF guide, the Biggest Fitness Mistakes to Avoid. You can download that@dakotalanefitness.com slash restored. Again, that's dakota lane fitness.com/restored. Or just click the link in the show notes. I love that.
No, that's such good advice and yeah, I love, I love like the nuance that you're adding to that life is. Not just black and white, there's a lot of color in it. And yeah, no, this is so good. Um, I'm sure everyone's thinking like, tell us more about your relationship with your mom. Like, where did it go from there?
And you know, how did it end? And things like that. So yeah, I'm curious. And I know it's kind of unique that I'm sure there's people listening who have lost their mom or their dad and are in a similar spot. But I think most people, you know, listening, I haven't had that experience yet. And so, yeah, any, I'm curious of any advice.
Uh, on that front too, but before that, I'm curious kind of how things progress with your mom and where did they, where did they end up?
Ben: Yeah, so my mom, like I said, my, my parents divorced my mom Went to like [00:31:00] england I think it's basically kind of like a i'm gonna go find myself situation. Actually, she changed her name.
So she changed her name from Jenny Pluta to Ada Fitzgerald because she wanted to like feel more connected with her like Celtic roots or whatever. And then she went to England to sort of like, I think just try to, she was searching for like an identity that she felt comfortable with, right? Like she was, that's why she changed her name.
Um, there's actually When, when my mom died, I was going through her, some of her things, and she actually had this like, name change announcement, you know? And it was like, she sent out, they were like, almost like wedding invitations, and they were, they were really dramatic, on the front it said, um, it said, Oh, what's in a name?
A rose by any other name would still be a rose. William Shakespeare. So it was like, oh, what's in a name, William Shakespeare, then it said everything, Ada Fitzgerald, you know, and it was just like pretty, it was pretty dramatic. [00:32:00] It was like a little, a little cringy. Um, but she was, so she like put a lot of stock in that name change.
And so she put a lot of stock in this trip to England. She was just trying to find herself. And I was like, I don't know. I was like, man. I can't imagine, but honestly, I think of all the things, I can't imagine what I was really feeling when I was like six years old and she left, but of all the things now that still hurt, the fact that she went to England was, is the thing that hurts by far the most because I don't know.
I just, I don't know how, I don't know how you, it really hurts that she just like completely abandoned me, you know, like the fact that she just totally left, I can deal with you, like trying your best and like still failing because you're an alcoholic or whatever, but like going to England really, really hurt me.
She was there for
Joey (2): years.
Ben: Yeah, she was there for, I'm pretty sure like a couple of years. Um, and when she came back, you know, it was just, she, I think she just. [00:33:00] Really wanted everything to be okay between me and her and I wanted everything to be really okay between me and her so what happened was After she came back from england.
It was like I Was kind of almost like afraid that if I wasn't there all the time She was just gonna leave again, right like if I Wasn't the perfect son That she was just gonna get out. So, there was a time where, you know, I was like probably, when I got back, I was probably around 8 or 9. And, from then until I was like, you know, in the 8th grade, so probably about 4 or 5 years.
She had just like a string of just like really horrible boyfriends. Like horrible boyfriends. Also alcoholics and they would fight verbally, physically, um, I had to call [00:34:00] my dad. I was like 10. I was like, had having to call my dad to like, take me home. These were like, can be my like visitation weekends. You know, I was like, dad, I'm fighting.
I really got to go. I think I tried to call the police one time because they were hitting each other there was just like it was really some some really awful situations and but I still just was putting a lot of responsibility on myself to like stick it out with her and once I got into You know, pre, you know, like very young adulthood and I was driving like I put ticket upon myself to like Take her to meetings and even though I could now like not spend the weekends with her because I was like, you know There's just nothing stopping me from
Joey: yeah
Ben: from not showing up I just still did it because I was like, yeah, I kind of hate this but I [00:35:00] don't want to be abandoned again, right?
I just want to hopefully this would become something good. And so, you know, that was really my mom's life for like a really just long time was she would, and you know, she would like go to rehab. And I think she had something like 13 rehab stints in her lifetime. Like, It was kind of crazy how many times, and um, So that was just like, our relationship was really marked a lot by that kind of thing.
Where I was trying really, really hard to be the perfect son, And it was just putting me in a lot of like, emotionally abusive situations and everything like that. My dad Was and I think really is the reason why I didn't just completely explode during this time My dad was a really good man Is a really good man, and I think during that time was incredibly supportive of me and understood everything And tried to, [00:36:00] really tried to help me, like, process all of it.
And, I mean, he was my rock during, during that time for sure. So, I think that once I, that was like, basically what characterized me and my mom's relationship for a long time. Was like, she was just spiraling out of control, and making very little headway in any way. And I was just like, always there, no matter what happened, no matter how much she, you know, no matter how many inappropriate things she did or whatever, like I was just there trying to, trying to help her, and I think it finally started dawning on me how bad things were, how like inappropriate that relationship was, like when I got it.
Really only when I got married. Yeah, I myself got married and I was talking to Chrissa and she was like, babe This is really messed up. Like she was able to take like a An outsider's perspective and be like, this is completely [00:37:00] inappropriate. Like you, you need to like do something about the way she, I think one, one time I was talking to my mom and I told her like, I can't take you to the grocery store right now.
Cause my mom was never able to drive basically ever because of all the DUIs and everything. And she. Just got really mad and yelled at me and just said something like really nasty to me And I was like, well, there goes mom and Chris was like no, dude that's like it's a verbal abuse is what that's called and yeah, and you're not just like It is not just like a there goes mom type situation.
It is like a really bad thing, you know
Joey (2): Yes, I was having a bad day or like Inconsequential comment hair there. It's like a clear trend and serious
Ben: Yeah, and it's like things that, that you wouldn't ever say to anybody, let alone your son, you know, so sadly, I mean, when, when I was a couple years after I got married, I told her, I was like, listen, mom, I just [00:38:00] can't keep having this relationship with you.
I, I want you to be good, but like, I am not actually helping you be good by continuing to be in this, like, to have this, like, relationship. And I just, I gotta step out. And for all of my mom's weaknesses, one of the things that she was, she was, like, weirdly, really smart and really educated and really understanding.
And I think that she actually was able to totally see what I was going through and say, Okay. So she had dealt with that fairly well. Um, we had a daughter and right around the time that my, we had a daughter, my mom had like a serious, like psychotic break, a series of six serious psychotic breaks. And she also was diagnosed with cancer.
So she was also, she was a lifelong smoker, but she also had. Like, lymph node problems. Like, she had like, uh, She would always have like, she had [00:39:00] some hormonal stuff, and she was always a smoker, so she got like, lymphoma. Which is actually like a fairly mild form of cancer. So, she had this incredible, like, this very serious psychotic break, and then she got cancer, and I was in Alabama with Focus, so it's like, at that point, I was still, I was trying to, Call her every, every week because it was just like, all right, you're clearly, it was just a totally different situation, you know, like, and, and so I think the last time I saw her in like 20, you know, 16, probably 2017.
Shortly after that time, like in 2017, I was like, I can't really talk to you very much. We had my daughter in 2018. So like 2017 was like the last time I had really spoken to her. And then in 2021 or 2022, so like four or five years later, That was the next time that I saw her. [00:40:00] And so that's like five years.
She had had like a, a fairly, a fair bit of success recovering from like the psychotic breaks. She had a stable housing situation. My aunt Gina was kind of. Working harder to ensure that she had like a fairly stable situation and then yeah, so I was with, I was able to like, she was able to meet her grandchildren, which was really nice.
Um, and it was, it was a really nice day. We, we went to. the park. We went to like a nature center in Ohio where she lives and she bought Magdalene and Jack, my oldest son, um, these little stuffed animals that we still have. And we spent about three hours together and then we left to go home, whatever. And then I saw her again in 2022, like early in the year.
So it was like 2021 brought the fam up. Everybody met mom. [00:41:00] She's doing okay. You know, And then the next year I went to, like, an IHOP with her, and, uh, that was ultimately the last time I talked to her, and she seemed like she was doing okay, and then, yeah, it was just later that year in August, uh, my son had just been baptized, but her cancer spread to the, her esophagus, and so she had esophagus cancer now.
And basically the cancer ate a hole through her esophagus. So not to get like too, too gross, but whenever she was swallowing food or water, some of it was getting in her lungs. So I was, it was like, my son, Simon was getting baptized and she called me right before the baptism and she said, I'm going in, like, literally I was outside.
In my suit, mass had just ended, the baptism was starting in like 10 minutes. She called, she said, Hey, I'm, I'm going to the surgery, um, everything's gonna be alright, whatever. And I was like, okay, but, you know, just call a priest, like, make sure a priest comes. Like, [00:42:00] don't go into that surgery without a priest, you know?
And she said yes. I'm calling the priest like I want to get last rites. I want that to be a thing. So then I went in and we baptized Simon and then we came home after the baptism and I'm like, okay I have no idea what's happening with my mom like don't don't know we were having like the baptism party and I got a call from the doctor and the doctor was basically like There's nothing we can do, you know.
Uh, there was a complication in the surgery that happened. She was losing a ton of blood. They tried to stabilize her. Anytime they took her off the machine, she started to destabilize quickly. He was like, there's just, there's nothing we can do. Your, your mom is going to die. The most that we can do is like, keep her alive until tomorrow so that you can get up here.
And I said, alright, I'll, I'll go. You know, so I, I like, I went downstairs to the baptism party, just like sobbing. And I was like, sorry guys, you guys can keep eating food, but I'm just going to go for a walk. [00:43:00] And, um, and I went to, and she died the next day. Um, all of her family was there, me, my half brother was there at one point, she like kind of woke up because they had her heavily sedated while she was dying so that she wouldn't feel any pain.
And so that it just like, wouldn't she wouldn't complicate anything. But one time the sedatives kind of just like, weren't strong enough and she kind of woke up and we were like, Oh gosh, this is terrifying. Um, but she like looked over and it was just me and my brother. And so me and my brother were the last things that she saw.
Um, before she passed away and, um, that was a very powerful moment for me, I think of just like, everything is okay. Like the whole family is here. And the last thing that she encountered was that we were there, you know, that we, despite everything, we still loved her and that me and my [00:44:00] brother recognized that we were still her sons and that she was still our mom, you know, um, that was really powerful.
And I think it was just a. A good moment to like just try to end with harmony rather than disharmony, you know, so that's kind of the the story of what our relationship, you know, and how it how it ended. And, um, I'm really fortunate that it ended that way. You know, there's no guarantee. There's no guarantee that our, the whole family would have been together for all of that, you know, um, and, and I don't want to make it seem like she was like, apparently, you know, my brother helped clean out her apartment.
And like, she was apparently still drinking and everything like that. Like, it wasn't like a, it wasn't like a fairy tale. Like my mom got better and everything was fine kind of ending, but it was something, you know, it was something good resolution.
Joey (2): Yeah. Some resolution. No. Wow. That
Ben: was, that was really long.
And I'm sorry if that was, yeah. Too much, but
Joey (2): no, you're good. I mean, honestly, it's like, it takes a bit to pull up all those [00:45:00] memories and think like, let me just summarize my relationship with my mom in like two minutes. It's a hard thing to do. So no, I appreciate you being so vulnerable on that. Yeah, man, I'm really sorry for everything you've been through.
And more than that, it's like, yeah, that hurts. It's uh, yeah, what a rough thing to go through. But, but I admire you for, I mean, a bunch, there's a lot of lessons and everything you just said. But, um, especially just like kind of ending with peace and harmony and trying to bring some sort of resolution out of like a really broken situation.
So I admire that. I also, um, I think there's a lesson in the whole fact that Carissa was able to kind of come alongside you as an objective kind of third party and say, Hey, this isn't okay. Like this relationship isn't good for you. And then the result of that from what you said was that you put some boundaries in place where you said, Hey, I can't continue having this type of relationship in my life.
And so I think there's something in that. I remember having a similar conversation with my dad when he was in a tough spot and kind of treating people acting out in a way that I like didn't agree with. And I kind of felt like I was [00:46:00] tacitly approving that if I were to just continue as if like, Hey, nothing, nothing's bad, nothing's going on.
So I remember having a conversation with him. I didn't want to just go with Sim. So I had a conversation and say, Hey dad, I love you. I want a relationship with you. As long as like. Your behavior is like this, that's not possible, but as soon as I see signs that it's changing, like, I'd love to resume that, restart that relationship.
And so I think, um, that, that was like really big for me and it sounds like it was similar for you. So yeah, there's a couple other lessons in there, but yeah, feel free to comment on any of that. If you come from a divorced or broken family, or maybe you know someone who does, we offer more resources than just this podcast.
Those resources include things like a book, free video courses, speaking engagements, a free assessment, online community, and much more. All of our resources are designed. To help you heal from the trauma that you've endured and build virtue so you can break that cycle and build a better life. And so if you want to view those resources for yourself or someone that you know, just go to restored ministry.
com slash resources or click on the link in the show notes.
Ben: Well, yeah, I think that, you know, your goal with, I [00:47:00] think anybody. It should be that you want to have some kind of harmony with that person. Like, you want to have a, a harmonious relationship. And, if you just ghost somebody, like that's, you're not working towards harmony, you're just increasing the discord.
You know, and I don't think that that's just I don't think that that is the the right way to go about it Um, I think that it's could take some courage I mean and I can imagine there are probably some situations maybe where you need to just like, you know Get the heck out and not worry about it. Like I'm assuming that things are like relatively safe, you know If there's like some serious unsafety, like, I can totally see, like, if you think you're gonna get hurt, like, there's, you can talk later, like, get out, you know?
Joey (2): Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's a good point. Or, or if you think, like, the reaction's gonna be so strong that it might be, you know, dangerous in that scenario, or maybe not even dangerous, it would just be like, [00:48:00] Overwhelming then I think there are other ways you can maybe break that news or communicate that like a letter That's what I do with my dad.
I knew like doing a face to face wouldn't have gone super well Yeah, we wrote a letter explaining things. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that in.
Ben: I think the letter is also Also good. I call I called my mom. I mean I was in alabama So like she wasn't we weren't gonna have a face to face conversation, but yeah, yeah, I think that um All i'm trying to say is like in some way for the most part.
I think that you want to act in a way that is At least working towards harmony rather than actively undermining any chance of harmony in the future, you know, that would be my perspective.
Joey (2): Yeah, I like that. But Krista
Ben: was, I mean, Krista was absolutely instrumental in helping me understand what's happening and what I needed.
And it was also, I mean, marriage itself, like, for a long time, I was kind of skeptical of marriage in general. I was skeptical that I would ever be able to be married, um, because it was Just like, well, the one marriage that I've [00:49:00] seen ended pretty poorly, but I ended up getting to know a lot of really solid families who were very committed.
And I think that getting to know those solid families who were committed and who were not divorced and were raising beautiful families helped me realize that I could do it. And so then when I finally did it, and I like, got, got into that committed relationship and got married, it was like, it was just kind of like a.
Magnifying glass on all of the little like things that I had picked up from my mom, you know, like all of these bad habits that I had picked up from being in a divorced house, you know, um, and especially the bad habits that I picked up from having like a emotionally verbally abusive mom, you know, just like the whenever we would get into a, if we would like a person, I would start having an argument and my cursor would be just like, she would just like start to leave the room.
Okay. Like, not even in like a mad way, just like, uh, I gotta go do something. It was just like, no, don't go [00:50:00] to England, you know, just like, no, stay right here, like, I do not want to let you out of my sight, because, like, you're not leaving, I'm not gonna let you leave, the way that my mom left, like, that's not happening.
Um, so. Yeah, that's kind of, that's just like one of the sort of, I guess, typical things that I kind of had to deal with as, um, I was entering into my marriage and becoming a father and stuff.
Joey (2): No, I appreciate you sharing that. And I've noticed, you know, just the whole fact that we kind of reenact, we replay the things from our past and especially like the behavior we observed in our parents, because as humans, we just kind of bear the behavior behind, around us, unless we're like very intentional.
But even if we are very intentional, we just end up mirroring the behavior behind us, around us. It's like, we just have to surround ourselves with people who we want to mirror. That's essentially it. But um, But no, I think there's like such wisdom in that of like, the lesson I took away is like, you, you know, as much as you're able to like, Spend time with surround yourself [00:51:00] with healthy marriages and families like there's a lot of good It was really helpful for me growing up too because I was the same I was super skeptical marriage I remember I swore after my parents split I'm like, I will never get married like that I would not want to be a part of this if this is where marriage leads like yeah But I want to go down that path and so so I think that that was like really huge for me and I love yeah I think one lesson too for everyone listening if you you know, if you're not In a dating relationship, or you're not engaged, married, um, or maybe even that person, your significant other, like, isn't the one who can maybe be the objective party, I think there is something to be said for, like, finding a mentor.
Finding, you know, maybe it's a relative. Maybe it's a therapist. Maybe it's, you know, just someone in your life. It could be a friend who can just kind of be that objective third party and just say like, you know, maybe you confide in them and say, hey, here's the relationship that I have with like mom or dad or whatever person.
Does this seem like healthy to you? And if not, then they can maybe help say, no, it doesn't seem healthy. And I think, you know, the Might be a space for putting in boundaries so that you can eventually have a healthy relationship. And I, I think it's something I always try to remember too, is [00:52:00] that boundaries are not just, they, they feel mean sometimes, but they're really always ordered towards having a healthy relationship.
Having a healthy relationship.
Ben: And I think like when I did, I mean, when I talked to my mom and I was talking about putting up this boundary, I was like, the only hope for us to have a good relationship is if. We take a step back, you know, like that is it and I totally agree with you I mean you said you mentioned that like when your parents split you were like i'm just never getting married i'm done with it And do you know the paramour song the only exception have you ever heard that song?
It's been
Joey (2): a minute, but I do It's
Ben: like that exact story She's like my daddy was awful and my mom left him and I told swore that I would never love but you're the only exception It's a really cute song. Um, but anyway It's neither here nor there. You said that you really, like, did not want to be, you know, in a married relationship.
I was, like, the opposite. I was, like, I just, I really, really, really, really want to find the one. And I was, like, kind of, like, a serial monogamist in high school. Um, I'm [00:53:00] using that word correctly, where I would just, like, sort of hop from girlfriend to girlfriend, and, like, every single girlfriend was the one.
You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Uh, but I think what I realized on self reflection is that I undermined a ton of those relationships because even though I really wanted to be married I just like was super scared of it and didn't know Didn't think it was possible and didn't really know what it looked like and it was Absolutely the mentors in my life that helped me understand what it was like to be in a healthy relationship, you know So absolutely, I think The most important thing to do if you in that kind of situation is to find, find somebody who is a good family, find somebody who has a good marriage and just like, hang out with them all the time and not be afraid to like, There was one family in Ohio, the Kesslers, who I think I spent, when I was in high school, there were probably [00:54:00] times where I spent just as much time at their house than I did at mine, just because like, they were a solid family.
And they, their parents were together. And like, you know, once you spend enough time with the family, you see that they have struggles, but I just like wanted to absorb every last little tiny bit of goodness from them and like, learn from it and be able to internalize it. And I think they were really, like, a huge turning point for, for me in my life, where, like, I was able to actually have a good relationship, you know?
After that, so really, really recommend that kind of stuff.
Joey (2): I love that. And I know we're toward the end of our time together. But, um, yeah, I was curious. Were there any particular instances where that really hit you or was just more of like a sum of the whole of like, yeah, this has just been a great experience knowing them, spending time around them, seeing how the parents.
Oh,
Ben: yeah. I don't know. I mean. I think that it was just, I, I can't think of a single moment where I was like, Oh, this is what a real family is like. I mean, I, I got super into their [00:55:00] family. Like they were, you know, it was, it was really awesome. It was, they like quasi adopted me. And there were, there were other families too.
Like I had family, one family in particular, growing up where it was the same situation where they just really. Brought me in and had a huge heart for me because they knew all of the difficulties I was going through But I mean if I can imagine if I can remember anything like there was one night where there's like a Thanksgiving and I like Came over for Thanksgiving dinner and had Thanksgiving dinner with them after my family's and then like I stayed to watch Christmas vacation with them because they watch Christmas vacation every Thanksgiving and I'm pretty sure I stayed the night to probably and You know, like, the girls in the family were like my little sisters, and the boys were like my brothers, and it was just like, this is it, like, this, this is what I want, and it was just really helpful to be able to be like, it is here, like, they do exist, like, like, Marriage, having a strong [00:56:00] family, having a good family is possible.
You know, it's just, just because it wasn't my experience growing up doesn't mean that I can't go on to create something like that.
Joey (2): So good. It's so hopeful. I love, I love this and yeah, there's so much more I want to say. But perhaps we'll kind of end on that. I, well, I do, I do want to hear a little bit just to tie it because I think people are probably wondering like, well, what about you personally, like your journey, your story?
So maybe we'll touch on that. There was something from your mom's story that I thought was really interesting, both her going to Britain and then also changing her name. It almost was like she had this desire to erase the past. I think a lot of us are there and to one degree or another where we've done things or have had relationships with things that was like, I'm not.
That's super proud of that. Even if it's not a major regret, maybe it is. I think we have this desire to like erase the past and I think what I kind of learned from you in this whole interview is like there's power in just kind of accepting it all, right? Accepting the good and the bad and kind of integrating that or I know it's kind of a big word, but just Just acknowledging that like, as people, like our identity is not just the good, but it also is the bad things that [00:57:00] we've done and it's kind of living with all that, you know, kind of coming to some level of peace and being able to say, okay, that was my past, but my future can be different.
Like I can live life differently.
Ben: Yeah.
Joey (2): I think that's like really, really powerful, but I think, I think a lot of people do have that desire to erase the past.
Ben: Yeah. I mean, that was, I mean, that's. You know, that was what my mom did like all the time. I mean,
Joey: yeah,
Ben: I think that yeah, like the the name change she's like I don't want to deal with anything that I have done like I want to be a totally different person and going to England was like I'm leaving America behind and I'm gonna go to like the land where my my true soul resides and and like start this new life and you know, she would always Bring up these narratives like with my brother particularly, you know, my brother didn't see my mom for a long time when he was kind of younger and my mom was always like, Oh, it's his dad's fault because his dad's a lawyer and she, he like manipulated the system.
And I [00:58:00] talked to my dad and my dad was like, listen, your brother just like, didn't really, I just like, didn't really want to go. You know, your brother didn't want to see your mom and I was just, yeah, you know, I, I think that she just had this need to like forget the past and for herself too. I mean, I remember I would say like, listen, I forgive you for all these things that you've done.
Why can't you just forgive yourself? And she was like, yeah, that's the hardest part. Like I, I don't know how to forgive you know, so she was definitely trying very hard to erase the past. And I think that coming to terms with what has happened is like a necessary part of healing for anybody, whether it's healing from alcoholism, or healing from trauma, or healing from your parents divorce, like, you just have to say, own that part of you, like, yep, that happened, I own it, it's mine, and I take ownership of it, and now I can build something better for the future.
I
Joey (2): think that that's really important. I love it. Because otherwise you're kind of stuck in the space of like, [00:59:00] yeah, totally hiding. Yeah, you're stuck in general, and then you're stuck also like hiding, you're stuck, okay. Yeah. Trying to race your shock trying to run from it and just it's this it's exhausting It's not the place that you want to be not the place you want to live So so good one thing I failed to ask at the beginning was how old are you now because you kind of give us a good Timeline of your life.
Oh,
Ben: yeah,
Joey (2): I am 30. So
Ben: yeah,
Joey (2): so your mom passed
Ben: when you were like 27 28 I was yeah, I was 28. I guess yeah, I just turned 28 when my mom passed away. Okay So yeah And then my parents divorced when I was five.
Joey (2): Okay. No, that's, that's helpful to say, have this headline. And the, let's see, the only final things I was just wondering is like, one, were there any other big ways in which you were affected, like struggles that kind of came out later?
Um, and then two, like, what helped you heal? What would you, and especially in the vein of like, what maybe other people can learn and apply to their own lives. So what was kind of the way in which you were affected beyond what you already mentioned? And then what was really helpful in order for you to heal that maybe other [01:00:00] people can learn from too.
Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I mentioned like the sort of like the serial monogamy, just like jumping from longterm relationship to longterm relationship, but feeling very afraid to like actually follow through with those commitments. A lot of stuff in marriage. I think personally, like the divorce and also like the things with my mom just really started like a precedent for um, A lot of problems with girls just in general, like just romantic problems in general, like trying to feel validated by them.
I know like pornography addiction was a big thing that popped up for me. I think that was just a huge way that I tried to feel validated by women and get some feminine of affirmation in my life was trying to get that through pornography and you know, I'm still. I'm actually still just uncovering layers of how my mom [01:01:00] contributed to those things, and how my parents divorce contributed to those things, but I'm also trying, I'm just realizing how deeply it is part of who I am, you know, and, um, I think, I mean, you know, I'm Catholic, so I think that the prayer Aspects and the sacraments like really help a lot have helped a lot like to open myself up to that grace and receive healing from somebody who has that power, you know, like, there's if you broke your arm, there's just like nothing you can do about it.
Like, if you have a cold or if you have. You know, you're like, just have various problems. You know, it's like, if you have a cold, right. There's things that you can do to make yourself better. Like you can eat lots of garlic and you can eat honey and you can rest, you know? But like, if you have like a broken arm, it's like, you got to go to the doctors.
And I think that a lot of the things that happened with my mom, it's, there are some things that I can do to heal. It's like, I can, you know, try to, I can go to [01:02:00] therapy. Um, I can. Evaluate my own means of communication and just communicate better with people I can try to change my daily habits I can try to change my mindset, whatever But there's just like some things that I just like ultimately can't change about me There's wounds that I can't do anything about and so I try to bring those to the divine physician and let him deal with it So that's been helpful and I think that I think that my relationship with my wife is just one of those things that Has brought so much healing to me It's these wounds.
She's great. And she's incredibly patient and just very loving to me Especially in the moments where I am feeling the most unlovable. So yeah I mean, she's the bomb and has helped me really I think work through so many of these different things So yeah, that's I think it's hard to pinpoint exactly. Oh, this was the most helpful thing I think it's like a whole cocktail of like good stuff that you have to
Joey (2): You have to do to heal, you know, yeah, [01:03:00] no, no silver bullet, only a hundred golden deep.
Ben: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a great, it's a great way of putting it. Yeah. I love that quote.
Joey (2): So good, man. Well, it's been such an honor to have you. The final thing I was just thinking of is just how we were talking about the different characters and movies and shows and stories, the villain, the hero.
You know, the, the guide and the victim. And I think the truth of our lives and we'd probably save your mom's life too, is that we're all those characters to one degree or another in everyday life, we can switch between them. And I think there's a lot of power in choosing, you know, to be the hero, the one who's like fighting for something that they want, something that's good and.
the guide who's helping other people get the things that are good in their lives too. And you know, no matter what you've been through, I think, you know, especially with God's grace, like you're capable of that, uh, to everyone listening. And so thank you for being such an awesome example and sharing so vulnerably with, with everyone about your story.
And I, um. Yeah, I did want you, if you would, tell us a little bit about the work that you do, because one of the things I admire about you is that you've [01:04:00] taken like all this pain, all this brokenness in your life, and now you're, you know, obviously doing work on yourself and trying to grow, but you're also trying to help other people grow, and especially grow in their relationship with God, which can be a struggle for so many people.
And so I'm curious if you would tell me, tell us a little bit about like the work that you do and how people can, you know, even find you online.
Ben: Yeah. So I'm a, I'm a missionary with Focus. FOCUS is acronym for the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. We were, we're an apostolate founded in 1998. And the basic goal of, of FOCUS is to spread the, the gospel of Jesus Christ in the Catholic faith through spiritual multiplication and through incarnational evangelization.
So those are big words. Basically, big fancy words for I, my job is really to like build personal relationships with people. I spend not a lot of my time giving big talks or like hosting big events. I spend a ton of [01:05:00] time getting to know people. on like a one on one basis or like a small group basis. And based on that, you know, trying to, to help them, winning them over to the, the gospel, trying to encourage them to discover who Jesus is, and then building, like encouraging them to pray, teaching them how to pray, praying with them.
And then also leading them with myself to, um, do the same for others, to bring them into relationships with God. My favorite part about, about being a missionary is That I get to invite people Basically into our family life, you know, like me and my wife have tons of people over for dinner all the time We have people over to our house All the time.
And so I like to imagine that I have done for somebody, or hopefully multiple people, what like the Kesslers were able to do for me, you know, like mentor people in how, what it is to be a good family. Uh, that's what I do. I have a, I have my own little focus page. You can sort of. Check out my bio [01:06:00] and find out more about my ministry if you go to focus.
org slash missionaries Slash Benjamin dash blue dot and we'll link to them the show notes to make yeah Yeah, and and of course, yeah, and I'd be happy to give my email address So yeah, that's basically my ministry and what I'm up to here and now I'm at a parish at st Agnes in Pennsylvania, and so that's My full time full time gig.
Joey (2): Love it. Thanks so much, man. And yeah, if you guys, especially those of you listening who know Ben, maybe you weren't aware of his story and the work that he's doing, um, definitely check out that web page. Um, if you feel moved to, um, no pressure, of course, uh, you can get in touch with him if you want to financially support him and his family to give him the ability to continue doing this work.
We'll link to that, that page in the show notes, but man, it's so good to have you. I really appreciate just all the, all the wisdom. I want to, um, yeah. Give you the last word and I'm going to end it a little bit different than I usually do. And I'd like to ask just like what advice or encouragement would you give to someone in particular who maybe their mom, their dad passed away?
There was a girl I, [01:07:00] after I gave a talk recently, a college student came up to me and she was just confiding me. Like there was a lot of like un left, unresolved, um, brokenness, trauma, like, you know, problems with her dad. And then he just passed away and she felt really stuck. Like, she couldn't do anything with it.
And so, um, I'm curious, yeah, if you have any advice for people in that situation, especially, because you, you've gone through this to some extent. Um, what advice would you give them? Like, what can they do, given that mom or dad are gone, and they do have that desire to, they feel like it's unfinished, it's unresolved, they want to bring some resolution to it.
Ben: Yeah, well, I think that I can think of, you know, maybe two, two pieces of advice, which You know, the first is from a faith standpoint, you know, between all of us and our parents, we have our relationships with our parents, but, you know, God is ultimately intimately involved in those relationships. So even if a parent has passed away, we still have a certain amount of [01:08:00] Ability to understand that story and interact with that story by believing that, that God is ultimately in control of it, that God is still in contact with our parents who have passed away, um, and also that we can, with God's help, understand the story of our lives.
Um, a little bit better. So that's, that's one thing, right? Just believe that through the Lord, we still have contact with our parents in some way. But from just like a, you know, a human, a human level, like a universally human level, I think that, A, one of the things that my therapist in college told me that was super important, Was that my healing does not depend on anybody else, right?
Like my healing, like I can take ownership of it. And so if you're in that situation where like your parent died and you didn't get any formal resolution with them. I would just suggest, like, you can still take ownership of that situation, you can still [01:09:00] take steps to find your own resolution, and I think that, like, some of the process that I did, like, going through the pictures, right, like, going through the home videos, a project that I have in the back of my head that I haven't done yet that I should really do is, I really want to, like, interview, quote unquote, quote, unquote, My mom's sisters because I think that that would give a lot of insight into my mom's life, you know Just like there are other ways there are other people there are other perspectives that you can get On your parent and I think getting those perspectives can really help move Move you along.
So that's my, that would be my final advice.
Joey (2): I really like the family photos and videos idea that the timeline tactic too was really helpful for me as a way to kind of heal and better understand my dad and what was going on in our family. But one other idea I wanted to mention, there was a girl after a talk I gave recently who shared that her dad had died recently and she never really got to resolve things with.
And so my advice [01:10:00] to her was just to write him a letter, just tell him all the things you wish you could tell him in person. And then she was religious, so I said, just place it in God's hands. And I didn't get a chance to speak with her after, but I really hope it went well. So those are a few tips for you if you want to, you know, try to find some closure, some healing.
If maybe one of your divorced or both of your divorced parents died and you never really got the closure that you deserve. I hope that helps. That wraps up this episode. By the way, if you want to share your story with us, we'd love to hear it. If you want, we can actually post your story on our website as an anonymous blog article.
You can go to restoredministry. com story or click the link in the show notes to share your story. If this podcast has helped you, feel free to subscribe or follow an Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or your podcast app. Not only is that the best way to avoid missing future episodes, but the more subscribers we have, the more the apps will suggest our show.
To people who are looking for help. And there's a lot of people who need help and it only takes a few seconds. If you've already done that, feel free to rate or review the show. We appreciate that feedback. And then it also helps us to reach more people who are looking for some help, uh, like we offer. And in closing, always remember.
You are not doomed to repeat your family's [01:11:00] dysfunction. You can break that cycle and build a better life. And we're here to help and keep in mind the words of CS Lewis, who said, you can't go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.
